I don't see how this benefits Orlando aside from getting rid of Dwight. They best player they get is Aaron Afflalo and 3 low first round picks (lottery protected). They're the one team I thought made out much worse. Not only that, but I'd still consider Miami the favorite and OKC just as good. We don't know how well Dwight is after his back surgery either - he might be damaged goods. I'm glad to see the saga over and it's an improvement for the Lakers, but Miami still very much is the best team.
NBA Thread - 2012-13
- Thread starter Big Sexy
- Start date
Look at it this way. If they don't trade Dwight they get nothing. With this trade they a get a good young talent in Afflalo, the 15th overall pick in Moe Harkless, three first round picks, and cap relief. They tried to originally trade with Brooklyn and nothing could get worked out so they went with the next best deal they could get in terms of value. Dwight doesn't have to come in right away and dominate in LA. Kobe/Nash/Gasol is a good enough threesome to allow Dwight to ease himself in. Once Howard does get healthy they can certainly compete with OKC and Miami.
Afflalo's alright but he's nowhere near a guy that will be one of their top 3 players if they were to be a title contender. He's a complementary piece. Not only that, but late first round picks aren't scrap heaps but your odds of finding a true star really go down after the lottery. And the only cap relief they got were Richardson. If they were going for Cap Relief they should've went for Houston's deal where Richardson, Davis, and Turkoglu all would've been taken along with really anyone on Houston they wanted and some future picks. Like the trade by the other 3, but Orlando didn't shed enough contracts or gain enough game changers to make this even a decent deal. Brooklyn's or Houston's looked much more appealing.
The Houston rumors never had a lot of legs and Orlando would have gotten nothing in terms of returned talent. It was also looking like Houston wouldn't have pulled the trigger because there was no way Dwight was resigning there.
The Nets deal was ok but overrated. Brook Lopez is coming off foot and ankle injuries that cost him most of last season and the Magic would have had to give him a big money deal. Marshon Brooks had a solid rookie year but it was nothing to right home about. And the Nets with Williams/Howard/Wallace would have been a 4-6 seed in the East so those first round picks would not have been lottery picks either.
There was no great deal out there but this was the only one that gave the Magic all three components they wanted. Young talent, first round picks, and cap relief. The Houston deal gave them no good young talent and I doubt it ever would have been finalized. The Brooklyn deal didn't give them any cap relief because with Lopez came a big new contract for them.
If they couldn't find a better suitor then I would've tried to make one last push for a title this year and at the end of the year Dwight would've likely walked but you still could make the pitch that you can offer the most money and years. It's not like this non-lottery picks and Arron Afflalo are going to lead this team to anything other than bottom of the east playoff contention at best. If you tank you may as well tank and not keep floundering in the 13/14 pick range which isn't much better. If I'm an Orlando fan I'm beyond pissed this is all i can get for the best center in the league. At least shed off more than just one contract, or get better players than just Afflalo, or something. On a scale of 1-10 I'd give them about a 2 for the deal.
There was a .00000000000000001% chance Dwight stayed in Orlando after this season. How could you possibly think that staying pat and going through a full year like the second half they had last year would be a good idea? At least this way they get something. They were not going to come close to competing for a title next year no matter what. This way they really shed two contracts (Dwight and J Rich), got some young talent (they weren't going to get an elite player so there's nothing wrong with a number three option like Afflalo), and they got draft picks. With their current roster the Magic are going to have a top 10 pick in next years draft, possibly top 5. That pick plus the additional first round picks they have, and the cap flexibility they got is a step in the right direction in terms of rebuilding. Keeping Dwight Howard was just delaying the inevitable and hurting the franchise in the long run.
I said it was highly unlikely Dwight stayed, but that doesn't change the fact that there were free agents they could've acquired at the beginning of FA (Nash/Allen/etc.) and it's not like Dwight hasn't carried this team to a Finals before. Granted, circumstances were different, but an injury to Lebron/Wade and then you can find yourself in contention. Chicago won't be doing much with Rose out this year and Boston is the only likely challenger.
And like I said, if they were gonna shed contracts, fine. But find a way to shed ALL of them or don't bother. Or don't get lottery protected picks. They sold low. This deal obviously isn't going down if they don't deal Dwight. You have the power. Get greedy. Guys like Afflalo are on the FA market every year, and as I said low first round rookies are rarely turned into stars and are more role players/lesser starters. While that's nice to have you NEED stars to win in todays NBA. Only one that hasn't in 20+ years is the 04 Pistons and their main starters were all near All-star caliber. Either make a deal that allows you to tear stuff up quicker (expiring contracts + getting rid of bad ones) or get a star back to compete. You mean you couldn't force the Lakers to take on another bad contract with Dwights? Then don't settle to their level. They want Dwight. Make them pay up for it. All they essentially gave up was Bynum (who was always going to be in a deal for Dwight) and a first round pick (something that a team like them doesn't really need). They made out like bandits. I'm just saying, Orlando needed to let go of more or get more back than what they got.
And like I said, if they were gonna shed contracts, fine. But find a way to shed ALL of them or don't bother. Or don't get lottery protected picks. They sold low. This deal obviously isn't going down if they don't deal Dwight. You have the power. Get greedy. Guys like Afflalo are on the FA market every year, and as I said low first round rookies are rarely turned into stars and are more role players/lesser starters. While that's nice to have you NEED stars to win in todays NBA. Only one that hasn't in 20+ years is the 04 Pistons and their main starters were all near All-star caliber. Either make a deal that allows you to tear stuff up quicker (expiring contracts + getting rid of bad ones) or get a star back to compete. You mean you couldn't force the Lakers to take on another bad contract with Dwights? Then don't settle to their level. They want Dwight. Make them pay up for it. All they essentially gave up was Bynum (who was always going to be in a deal for Dwight) and a first round pick (something that a team like them doesn't really need). They made out like bandits. I'm just saying, Orlando needed to let go of more or get more back than what they got.
The Magic finished 9-14 last season around the time the Dwight drama started so with a full year of that things weren't going to get better. And no decent free agent in their right mind would have come to Orlando this off season. The Magic had a tough enough time getting guys when they were winning games and Dwight was happy. Their team was not going to get better even if they refused to trade Dwight.
In terms of dumping every major contract, that's not how it works. Major trades are not an easy thing to pull off and there was no way the Magic were going to shed all of their big contracts. Besides the only really atrocious contract they have left is Hedo Turkoglu's and he only has one year left after this. The Magic were not going to get any stars in return for Dwight and any team they traded him to was going to be good enough to make the playoffs so the chances of getting high lottery picks wasn't good. However, Orlando is in full rebuilding mode so I guarantee that their own pick will be a high lottery selection and that is where they can try to find their star. In the meantime they got additional first round picks (that can also be used to move up in a draft to get a particular player) and some solid young talent.
In terms of dumping every major contract, that's not how it works. Major trades are not an easy thing to pull off and there was no way the Magic were going to shed all of their big contracts. Besides the only really atrocious contract they have left is Hedo Turkoglu's and he only has one year left after this. The Magic were not going to get any stars in return for Dwight and any team they traded him to was going to be good enough to make the playoffs so the chances of getting high lottery picks wasn't good. However, Orlando is in full rebuilding mode so I guarantee that their own pick will be a high lottery selection and that is where they can try to find their star. In the meantime they got additional first round picks (that can also be used to move up in a draft to get a particular player) and some solid young talent.
I find it hilarious OKC got more for Harden then Orlando got for Howard, but I guess that shows you the ineptitude of Otis Smith.
There are really only 4 or 5 legitimate contenders for the title this year, them being Miami and Boston from the East and OKC, LA, and San Antonio from the West (with LAC, Denver, and Memphis being fringe contenders) and my pick is Miami/LA for the title with Miami repeating. OKC regrets getting rid of Harden and lose in the WCF.
As for the Pistons, this looks like the year before it's their time to contend. Likely a 30-35 win team, honestly it'd be best for them to get a mid lottery pick to help build their core and then ride out with them as the future. While a playoff berth would be a nice breath of fresh air, I don't wanna see them get bounced by Boston or Miami and lose their mid round draft pick in the process. It might be arduous to watch at time, but the Pistons are much better off missing the playoffs for one more year so they don't lose that draft pick. They can lose it next year when they are legitimate contenders for 6/7/8 spots.
There are really only 4 or 5 legitimate contenders for the title this year, them being Miami and Boston from the East and OKC, LA, and San Antonio from the West (with LAC, Denver, and Memphis being fringe contenders) and my pick is Miami/LA for the title with Miami repeating. OKC regrets getting rid of Harden and lose in the WCF.
As for the Pistons, this looks like the year before it's their time to contend. Likely a 30-35 win team, honestly it'd be best for them to get a mid lottery pick to help build their core and then ride out with them as the future. While a playoff berth would be a nice breath of fresh air, I don't wanna see them get bounced by Boston or Miami and lose their mid round draft pick in the process. It might be arduous to watch at time, but the Pistons are much better off missing the playoffs for one more year so they don't lose that draft pick. They can lose it next year when they are legitimate contenders for 6/7/8 spots.
Some notes after the first few games.
Lakers are off to a terrible start. Their players seem lost in the new offence, especially if many possessions end with MWP taking a 3pointer with 3 time running out. Having said that, once they work out the chemistry issue, I think they will be a force to reckon with. With Howard dominating in the paint, it will be Orlando Magic 09 but instead of Nelson as PG they have Nash and Kobe and Gasol instead Hedo and Lewis. Meeks will be the X-factor with his streaky shooting to space the floor.
Harden and Lin are exciting to watch together. Funny how one trade suddenly make Rockets the new Warriors, fun to watch but you know they won't compete in the post season.
Spurs are still the Spurs.
Lakers are off to a terrible start. Their players seem lost in the new offence, especially if many possessions end with MWP taking a 3pointer with 3 time running out. Having said that, once they work out the chemistry issue, I think they will be a force to reckon with. With Howard dominating in the paint, it will be Orlando Magic 09 but instead of Nelson as PG they have Nash and Kobe and Gasol instead Hedo and Lewis. Meeks will be the X-factor with his streaky shooting to space the floor.
Harden and Lin are exciting to watch together. Funny how one trade suddenly make Rockets the new Warriors, fun to watch but you know they won't compete in the post season.
Spurs are still the Spurs.
I've seen a couple people say this but it's definitely not true. OKC got two first round picks but one is from the Lakers which will be a late pick and the other is lottery protected. They also got a lottery pick in Jeremy Lamb and then a one year loner in Kevin Martin who is unlikely to be resigned by OKC after this season.
Orlando didn't get a great haul by any means but their 3 lottery protected first rounders trumps OKC's 2. They got a lottery pick in Moe Harkless which basically offsets OKC's addition of Jeremy Lamb (though I do like Lamb's potential more then Harkless). Then they got Aaron Afflalo who may not be the scorer Martin is but he is a better overall player and he isn't going to be gone after one season. Not to mention Orlando got 7 footer Nikola Vucevic who was a 2011 first round pick and is off to a good start this season.
Again I'm not saying Orlando got a great haul but they certainly got more then OKC did for Harden.
Congratulations to the Charlotte Bobcats for equaling their win total of last season after only 12 games of the 2012-2013 season. 7-5 so far this year, but a woeful 7-59 in the abbreviated season last year. While I guess it still remains to be seen if they can somehow been in playoff contention this season, at least they don't totally suck this year. It appears that claim to fame goes to the Washington Wizards, at an abysmal 0-11. Time will tell if the Wizards eventually contend for a record for futility, but it must be very disheartening for their fans to start the season in this fashion. I mean, my Raptors are pretty hopeless this year too, but at least they have magically managed 3 victories this season.
Lakers are 8-9 after a really favourable homestand start to the season. They can blitz Denver in one game and lose to Orlando the next. We are almost at the 1/4 leg of the season and we are still clueless on how this is a contending team. Losing their first two option at PG is bad but is a 39 old PG really that big a deal to a team containing Howard and Kobe? Furthermore their issues seem to be on the defensive end rather than offence because with Howard in the team Hack-A-Howard will always disrupt their flow.
Yes, losing Nash is definitely still a big deal, especially with Blake out for two months they are stuck with Morris and Duhon at PG, which is obviously a disaster. Some things are concerning though, mainly the lack of consistent effort void of any depth whatsoever.
Dwight's FTs are a concern, if he can't shoot over 50% the Hack-A-Howard is a great strategy in the 4th quarter and that terrible headband is an issue as well. They should definitely make the second round, possible WC Finals, but I don't think they're winning a title this year by any means
Dwight's FTs are a concern, if he can't shoot over 50% the Hack-A-Howard is a great strategy in the 4th quarter and that terrible headband is an issue as well. They should definitely make the second round, possible WC Finals, but I don't think they're winning a title this year by any means
Lakers lost again. To the Rockets that had Harden going for 3-19. They are built to be a playoff type team that can't win in the regular season for whatever reason. Harden's old team OKC seem to be not missing a beat and continue to beat other contenders. That team is still the team to beat in the West.
Also the Wizards without Wall actually beat the Heat. How did that happen? The league is surprisingly unpredictable so far at the start of the season with many upset games. Long may that continue.
Also the Wizards without Wall actually beat the Heat. How did that happen? The league is surprisingly unpredictable so far at the start of the season with many upset games. Long may that continue.
I think the Laker uniforms were the only uniforms I thought looked halfway decent.
And the Lakers sure do seem to be hitting their stride.
Meh. I'll get excited when they're significantly above .500. They're still the second best team in LA.
Also, what the hell happened to the Bulls tonight? Is the Houston offense just that good? It's insane.
I only caught it after they were down by 30. I took a nap this afternoon. I needed it after the food I ate.
They may be the second best team, but they are still the most interesting team.
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
Denver must have a great homestand coming up somewhere because they've only played nine home games so far.
Depends on how you define interesting. Does it mean the team I want to watch? Because I'd rather watch the young, incredible, exciting, and red hot Clippers (sporting the best record in the NBA) than a team of dysfunctional veterans being desperately held together by the supreme will of Steve Nash alone.
That's unbelievable. I have a hard time believing this was a scheduling necessity, and it's just unfair. They're obviously being affected by it. It's not fair to a team that's got a lot of talent and should be a lot better than they are.
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
They have six in a row at home in late January and early February.
It means the team who you're more willing to turn your head about when news about them comes on.
LA is still Laker town, despite the exciting and quality play of the Clippers. The Lakers still have one of the greatest players of all time, a Hall of Fame point guard, arguably the best big man in the game and one of the greatest international players in history. With the exception of Howard, yes, they are all past their prime, but that doesn't mean they are not still great ball players, but more importantly to this conversation, still interesting to keep up with.
The Lakers are the more noteworthy team of the two, but the Clippers are playing spectacular basketball. I take any opportunity to watch the Clippers play -- they're really, really fun to watch. On the other hand, I can't deny that I still watch the Lakers play because of all the stars they have, and because I keep waiting for their team to finally click and pull it all together.
Yesterday's games were pretty nice. I was stunned by Houston's performance against Chicago -- Chicago desperately needs D-Rose back, producing like the former MVP that he is, otherwise they're going to fade and fizzle out. OKC/Miami had an intense atmosphere, even for the television viewers. LeBron absolutely rose to the occasion and made his team play to the best of their abilities. Durant may have out scored him, but LeBron's performance proved to me that he's head and shoulders above ANYBODY in the league.
Yesterday's games were pretty nice. I was stunned by Houston's performance against Chicago -- Chicago desperately needs D-Rose back, producing like the former MVP that he is, otherwise they're going to fade and fizzle out. OKC/Miami had an intense atmosphere, even for the television viewers. LeBron absolutely rose to the occasion and made his team play to the best of their abilities. Durant may have out scored him, but LeBron's performance proved to me that he's head and shoulders above ANYBODY in the league.