The 2011-12 NBA season is over with the Miami Heat defeating the Oklahoma City Thunder to win the NBA Title. The off season has already begun with the NBA Draft and now today we have the start of free agency. Use this thread to discuss the NBA off season (free agency, trades, etc.) and the upcoming NBA season. All general NBA discussion for the next year belongs in this thread.
NBA Thread - 2012-13
- Thread starter Big Sexy
- Start date
Unsold Bacon
Shucky Ducky Quack Quack
I'll report some news.
Roy Hibbert is a Great player and all but there is no way in hell, he is a max player IMO. I'm sure he might be able to devlop into to one but I think the chances are slim. This just mean the Trail Blazers really want him.
Although this deal kind of took me off and suprised me (I didn't except him to go back to the Nets), it makes a lot of sense for Gerald Wallace and can help the now Brooklyn Nets as well.
Roy Hibbert is a Great player and all but there is no way in hell, he is a max player IMO. I'm sure he might be able to devlop into to one but I think the chances are slim. This just mean the Trail Blazers really want him.
Although this deal kind of took me off and suprised me (I didn't except him to go back to the Nets), it makes a lot of sense for Gerald Wallace and can help the now Brooklyn Nets as well.
This is a case of a really good, young player getting overpaid because a team has an immediate need and the free agent crop is a little weak at that position. Hibbert is not a max contract guy but because he is a restricted free agent, Portland needed to make an offer they know the Pacers wouldn't match. Of course now Portland is on the verge of getting a young center which means Hibbert will be blowing out his knee sooner rather then later.
The Nets have a ton of money and they needed to do something quickly to appease Deron Williams. This is the best monetary deal Wallace was going to get.
No way is Hibbert worth a max contract. I don't get teams outbidding each other for decent big men. Why not just draft one and pay much less and load up on even better quality wingmen while sacrificing in the center position if you cannot obtain true max-contract type players. Heck just sign a better quality PF and move the player to C. (if you have the coach to persuade the guy to switch position 
)
)A couple of notes from today. First, it looks like Indiana is leaning towards matching the Blazers max offer for center Roy Hibbert. It's not that the Pacers want to pay him that much, it's more that they don't think they can find a replacement anywhere near Hibbert's ability. They were interested in Omar Asik but he is going to sign in Houston. They also had Chris Kaman in for a visit today but it looks like that obviously didn't go well enough for them to feel comfortable losing Hibbert.
The big news from today is a potential deal that will send Joe Johnson to Brooklyn. ESPN is reporting a verbal agreement for the Hawks to send Joe Johnson to the Nets for the expiring contracts of Jordan Farmar, Johan Petro, Anthony Morrow Jordan Williams, and DeShawn Stevenson, as well as Houston's 2013 first round pick (lottery protected). This gives the Hawks a ton of cap relief after next season and it gives the Nets a star guard to possibly convince Deron Williams to stay in Brooklyn.
The Nets did a great job of retaining Marshon Brooks and their own 2013 first round pick. Brooks had a very good rookie season and has a bright future. With this trade the Nets could have a possible starting lineup of Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, Gerald Wallace, Mirza Teletovic (Bosnian forward who the Nets are the favorites to sign), and Brook Lopez (who is expected to resign), with Marshon Brooks as the 6th man. Or they could go with a smaller lineup of Williams, Brooks, JJ at the 3, Wallace at power forward, and Lopez.
And now it looks like the Hawks have made another deal sending Marvin Williams to Utah for Devin Harris. This is another money saving move for the Hawks. Harris is in the final year of his contract while Williams has two years left. Williams will provide a nice scoring punch off the bench for Utah and Harris will fill in nicely for a year in Atlanta replacing what Kirk Hinrich gave them last year.
The big news from today is a potential deal that will send Joe Johnson to Brooklyn. ESPN is reporting a verbal agreement for the Hawks to send Joe Johnson to the Nets for the expiring contracts of Jordan Farmar, Johan Petro, Anthony Morrow Jordan Williams, and DeShawn Stevenson, as well as Houston's 2013 first round pick (lottery protected). This gives the Hawks a ton of cap relief after next season and it gives the Nets a star guard to possibly convince Deron Williams to stay in Brooklyn.
The Nets did a great job of retaining Marshon Brooks and their own 2013 first round pick. Brooks had a very good rookie season and has a bright future. With this trade the Nets could have a possible starting lineup of Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, Gerald Wallace, Mirza Teletovic (Bosnian forward who the Nets are the favorites to sign), and Brook Lopez (who is expected to resign), with Marshon Brooks as the 6th man. Or they could go with a smaller lineup of Williams, Brooks, JJ at the 3, Wallace at power forward, and Lopez.
And now it looks like the Hawks have made another deal sending Marvin Williams to Utah for Devin Harris. This is another money saving move for the Hawks. Harris is in the final year of his contract while Williams has two years left. Williams will provide a nice scoring punch off the bench for Utah and Harris will fill in nicely for a year in Atlanta replacing what Kirk Hinrich gave them last year.
I'd also like to point out how smart Danny Ferry has been this off season. Assuming both the Johnson and Williams trades go through the Hawks will be way under the cap after next season when Josh Smith's contract expires AND when Dwight Howard likely hits the open market. Ferry not only shed a couple big contracts but he essentially blocked the one team D12 would sign an extension with from getting him.
Atlanta is Howard's home town and the Hawks will have more then enough money to sign him plus resign both Josh Smith and Jeff Teague (who will be a RFA) next off season. A starting lineup of Jeff Teague, recently drafted John Jenkins, Josh Smith, Al Horford, and Dwight Howard will definitely be good enough to compete for a title. The roster ATL currently has before these trades go through has proven they are not capable of competing for a title. A front court of Smith, Horford, and Howard would be impossible to defend.
This scenario is far from a lock but Ferry has done a great job early on of positioning this Hawks franchise to retool its roster without completely blowing up the team.
Atlanta is Howard's home town and the Hawks will have more then enough money to sign him plus resign both Josh Smith and Jeff Teague (who will be a RFA) next off season. A starting lineup of Jeff Teague, recently drafted John Jenkins, Josh Smith, Al Horford, and Dwight Howard will definitely be good enough to compete for a title. The roster ATL currently has before these trades go through has proven they are not capable of competing for a title. A front court of Smith, Horford, and Howard would be impossible to defend.
This scenario is far from a lock but Ferry has done a great job early on of positioning this Hawks franchise to retool its roster without completely blowing up the team.
I can somewhat understand the move made by the Nets but then I can somewhat not. I understand you wanna put on a team that will have a better chance of competing (and a team with Deron/JJ will be in the playoff hunt) but I have to feel that this is somewhat of a shortsighted move since they now are out of the Dwight hunt and still need to make more upgrades to avoid being the Hawks 2.0 (consistent playoff team but nothing more than 2nd round exits). They'll need another impactful piece to add to the core of Deron/JJ to be an actual contender. It looks like they don't have the money to go after another big name, though.
I do agree that the Hawks make out like bandits on this though. JJ is a fine player but severely overpaid and that team reached it's ceiling. They are retooling without completely rebuilding, which is a plus. D12 to there seems like a logical reasoning now (although I could see the Mavs staying in the way of this still) and the Hawks you assume will take one step back this year to take 3 steps forward the year after. Very shrewd move.
I do agree that the Hawks make out like bandits on this though. JJ is a fine player but severely overpaid and that team reached it's ceiling. They are retooling without completely rebuilding, which is a plus. D12 to there seems like a logical reasoning now (although I could see the Mavs staying in the way of this still) and the Hawks you assume will take one step back this year to take 3 steps forward the year after. Very shrewd move.
The Holy One
What's really good?
I swear I may marry Danny Ferry. Not only is getting rid of a top 1st round draft pick waste in Marvin Williams, but also he may dish out the mistake that was Joe Johnson's latest contract. This man was sent from heaven. If we somehow get Dwight Howard next season, I'm going to Ferry's house and proposing to him.
What the Nets really need to do is fire Billy King. He put the Nets in a no win situation this off season because of the awful Gerald Wallace trade from March. They lost the sixth pick in the draft for a pending free agent they were forced to overpay. There was no way the Nets could not resign Wallace after getting rid of a top 10 pick in a deep draft. Losing that pick also took away a major trade chip they could have used to get Howard. With a Howard deal unlikely they had to do something big or resigning Deron Williams was a lost cause.
If they didn't make this deal for JJ, Deron Williams was unlikely to resign (he still may not resign), and a deal for Howard was still unlikely. That would have left them with a below average team led by Brook Lopez, Gerald Wallace, and Marshon Brooks. If they end up getting D Will back and he can play like he did at his peak in Utah, plus they get a motivated Joe Johnson, and a healthy Brook Lopez, then they have a chance to compete. That is a lot of things that need to go right for them but after giving up what they did to get Deron Williams, another rebuilding effort would not have been a good way to start off the franchise's move to Brooklyn. Remember they gave up Derrick Favors and two first round picks to get Williams.
If the Nets would have stood pat at the deadline this past season and not traded for Wallace then they could have sent a package of Marshon Brooks, Brook Lopez, the 6th pick in the 2012 draft, a 2013 first round pick, and expiring contracts to Orlando for Dwight Howard. Plus they still would have had money left over to possibly sign a guy like Gerald Wallace who likely would not have returned to Portland.
I'd have to agree with you there. The Wallace trade really stands out to me because this team was already a sure lottery team when that deal went down and to move the #6 pick like that was an extremely shortsighted move. That put them in a pickle where if they didn't resign Wallace they would've essentially given a lottery pick up for a decent player for a few months. Like I said Deron/JJ should take them to a playoff berth and possibly the ECF since the east is so weak, but you can't see them challenging the Heat in the east without a dominant big man (aka Dwight) that can't even be defended by Bosh. Deron can be guarded by Wade and JJ can be guarded by Lebron and that's about it for their playoff chances. At least Deron/Dwight/others would be a bit intriguing since Dwight would be such a tough guard for them.
I still think they should've held out another year, get a decent draft pick, hope that Deron believes in the management, and sign Dwight. I just don't like them taking on that contract when we know it's an almost certainty this team still is another big piece away from being legitimate threats and is running out of room to do it.
I still think they should've held out another year, get a decent draft pick, hope that Deron believes in the management, and sign Dwight. I just don't like them taking on that contract when we know it's an almost certainty this team still is another big piece away from being legitimate threats and is running out of room to do it.
I'm guessing the Nets were getting the impression that Williams was gone if they didn't get someone this offseason. Without Williams there's no Dwight anyways and they're back to the same rebuilding phase they were in just two years ago. The one saving grace the Nets have is the amnesty clause. If the team doesn't do anything of note in the next couple years then they can amnesty JJ or Wallace. The Nets owner has more then enough money to gladly do that. IF Williams resigns I think the X factor is Brook Lopez. When healthy Lopez is the second best offensive center in the NBA next to Andrew Bynum. Miami is easily the best team in the East but they are one injury to LeBron/Wade/Bosh away from being beatable in the East.
EDIT: Forget about the Amnesty Clause comment. I forgot the Nets already used it on Travis Outlaw this past season
Oh I understand why they did it - Deron was at least out there and he is a top 3 PG, while Dwight flips his mind every hour it seems. You can at least say they're making an effort, but it's poorly executed. Lopez is a decent big, sure, but they need an anchor on defense at center, not someone that can make buckets. A Dwight Howard or Tyson Chandler. While Wallace is still a good defender, he can't nearly make the type of impact that a 7 footer can. Maybe I'm underestimating their core, but they ceiling seems to be 2nd round/ECF without Dwight. With Dwight (and Deron) they're the biggest threat to the Heat (I know they couldn't sit around and wait on Dwight with Deron on the FA market, but I'm still annoyed at their deadline deal of Wallace more than anything).
I agree with your assessment of the team but with the major fuck up that was the Gerald Wallace trade, I think this is direction they had to take. It certainly isn't the ideal direction but better then the alternative of another complete rebuild. They do need a big man who can defend/rebound and they need a bench outside of Marshon Brooks but it's better then having to rebuild again after getting rid of three first round picks and Derrick Favors over the last 2 years. Miami just won a championship without a starting big that excels in the areas of defense and rebounding. Obviously Brooklyn doesn't have a LeBron or D Wade caliber player but you get the point. Under the circumstances these were the moves that were the lesser of two evils. Getting Dwight was no longer a realistic option.
Deron Williams has officially signed with the Nets. With the Nets adding JJ and the Mavs losing Jet Terry, this is definitely the right decision. No offense to Dirk but I'll take the current Brooklyn roster over the current Mavs roster. The Nets also acquired Reggie Evans in a sign and trade. Evans is a veteran who brings rebounding and defense to compliment Brook Lopez and his scoring ability. The Nets are reportedly still trying to get Dwight Howard but I'm not sure how realistic those talks really are. From a financial stand point it just seems a little too tight and I also think Orlando can get more in return elsewhere. I guess we'll see.
The Celtics made a nice signing by picking up Jason Terry for the full mid level exception. Jet adds a nice scoring punch off the bench for the C's. Boston has had a good offseason by resigning KG, drafting Sullinger and Fab Melo, and signing Terry and Jeff Green. Now their attention will shift to resigning Ray Allen and Brandon Bass.
The Celtics made a nice signing by picking up Jason Terry for the full mid level exception. Jet adds a nice scoring punch off the bench for the C's. Boston has had a good offseason by resigning KG, drafting Sullinger and Fab Melo, and signing Terry and Jeff Green. Now their attention will shift to resigning Ray Allen and Brandon Bass.
Nash just got traded to the Lakers for 4 draft picks. Lakers added a 3 point threat which they badly needed, and a great point guard to feed their current big 3. I have my doubts whether Nash can fit into the Lakers system but exciting times ahead. Bynum should be real happy about this.
Nash is a great pickup and he may be bringing a friend along with him. Grant Hill is looking to sign elsewhere and Nash said he will try to convince Hill to join him in LA. Nash, Kobe, Hill, Gasol, and Bynum is a very good starting 5.
Lowdown
Ooh baby I like it roooaaaaw!
This looks to be a decent pick up for the Lakers. Nash is up there in age but at the same time he has still been able to produce. Will this translate into another title for the Lakers? I don't know. I'd like for them to trade Bynum for a couple of decent bigs, but I don't think it would be a good idea to bring in Dwight Howard. Considering his recent attitudes he would be about as temperamental as Bynum is now, although he continues to play hard.
The Nets have finally ended their talks with Orlando, signing Brook Lopez to a max deal. I think this is a fairly smart move on their behalf, as they can finally move forward with this core group and see what they can bring to the table, possibly re-engaging the Magic in trade talks around the trade deadline, trying to salvage the deal. The whole Howard saga is becoming a distraction for all the teams involved, so I don't blame Brooklyn in the slightest for finally just backing away from the table. Don't get me wrong, Dwight Howard is a legitimate superstar and a true dominant center, but it was going to be nearly impossible to get him at this point -- Lopez isn't on that level, but if he can produce until they get another chance to make a run at Howard, then it's a fine choice to stick with Lopez.
This makes me far more interested with what will happen with Howard, though. I don't see him being traded any time soon, but if the Lakers are willing to give up Bynum, then I'm not sure the Magic can refuse -- especially if he intends to extend with the Magic. The Rockets have also been lingering throughout the trade discussions, but I don't see them being a major contender. They've got plenty of picks, but it just doesn't make sense to take him as a one-year rental, in essence. Either way, the sooner this ends, the better -- it's becoming quite the distraction.
This makes me far more interested with what will happen with Howard, though. I don't see him being traded any time soon, but if the Lakers are willing to give up Bynum, then I'm not sure the Magic can refuse -- especially if he intends to extend with the Magic. The Rockets have also been lingering throughout the trade discussions, but I don't see them being a major contender. They've got plenty of picks, but it just doesn't make sense to take him as a one-year rental, in essence. Either way, the sooner this ends, the better -- it's becoming quite the distraction.
The last couple days it has actually been rumored that there is a potential three team deal involving Orlando, the Lakers, and Houston. LA would get Howard, Houston would get Bynum and absorb the contract of Jason Richardson, and Orlando would get a combination of first round picks and cap friendly contracts. Houston is one of the teams Bynum has said he may extend with and they are desperately looking for a top 20 talent. Orlando wants Bynum but they know he isn't going to resign so there is no point in them downgrading from Howard to Bynum for a year when the same result is inevitable.
I'd like to point out a couple things about the off season thus far. First, I know everyone is giving the Nets props for their transactions but I think the Clippers have really had the best off season. The only major contributor they lost was Mo Williams and they were able to add Jamal Crawford, Lamar Odom, and now Grant Hill. Crawford was already an upgrade over Williams, Odom is going to be very motivated and in his comfort zone back in LA, and Grant Hill can still contribute a good deal even at 40.
This gives the Clippers a starting 5 of CP3, Chauncey, Caron Butler, Blake Griffin, and Deandre Jordan. It also gives them a great bench of Eric Bledsoe, Crawford, Hill, and Odom. If everyone stays healthy I think the Clippers are currently the biggest threat to the Thunder in the West. Even mores o then the Lakers and Spurs.
Second, I'd lie to point out the Mavs great recovery this off season. They lost out on Deron Williams, let Jason Terry walk, and were on the verge of an extremely disappointing off season. Since then they were able to add a couple veteran bigs in Chris Kaman and Elton Brand, a talented young 2 guard in OJ Mayo, and a good young point guard in Darren Collison. I see Kaman, Mayo, and Collison all starting and Brand getting a good amount of playing time off the bench. With these moves the Mavs will be able to stay in the playoff hunt this year and also keep cap room open for next off season.
This gives the Clippers a starting 5 of CP3, Chauncey, Caron Butler, Blake Griffin, and Deandre Jordan. It also gives them a great bench of Eric Bledsoe, Crawford, Hill, and Odom. If everyone stays healthy I think the Clippers are currently the biggest threat to the Thunder in the West. Even mores o then the Lakers and Spurs.
Second, I'd lie to point out the Mavs great recovery this off season. They lost out on Deron Williams, let Jason Terry walk, and were on the verge of an extremely disappointing off season. Since then they were able to add a couple veteran bigs in Chris Kaman and Elton Brand, a talented young 2 guard in OJ Mayo, and a good young point guard in Darren Collison. I see Kaman, Mayo, and Collison all starting and Brand getting a good amount of playing time off the bench. With these moves the Mavs will be able to stay in the playoff hunt this year and also keep cap room open for next off season.
NBA free agency has slowed down considerably but the Clippers continue to add depth. A couple days ago they signed Rony Turiaf to get some much needed depth in the front court. Today they traded for Willie Green to add to an already stacked back court that includes CP3, Chauncey Billups, Jamal Crawford, and Eric Bledsoe. The Clippers suffered some injuries to the back court last year and it had an adverse affect. This year they are prepared and have the depth to deal with a couple injuries to the guards.
Mr Mikey Mike
Occasional Pre-Show
As a Sun's fan I love what the team did this offseason. Yeah we lost Steve Nash but got four draft picks, Kendall Marshall in the draft, Goran Dragic, Michael Beasley, Wesley Johnson, and Luis Scola. I really believe Phoenix has the talent to at least compete for the division title.
You do realize they are in the same division as the Clippers and Lakers? The Clippers had arguably the best off season in the NBA and the Lakers will be improved with the addition of Nash. The Suns made some nice moves but at best they will be competing for a 7 or 8 seed in the West. I think Kendal Marshal will end up being an all star but as of now he is a rookie and Dragic, while solid, isn't overly spectacular. They are a definite downgrade from Nash.
They replaced Grant Hill with Michael Beasely and while Beasley is a lot younger and a great talent, he still lacks maturity. What they get in youth and athleticism, they lose in stability and defensive ability. Wesley Johnson is a former high draft pick who has had two very disappointing seasons. He has failed to shoot over 40% in his first two seasons. The only definite upgrade they have is adding Luis Scola to replace the departing Robin Lopez and Hakim Warrick. Scola is one of the more underrated players in the NBA.
The Dwight Howard saga may finally be over tomorrow morning. It is being reported by multiple sources that a four team trade is on the verge of being completed that would include the Magic, Lakers, 76ers, and Nuggets. LA would receive Howard and Al Harrington, Orlando would receive Pau Gasol and Aaron Afflalo (plus some cap relief and draft picks), Philly would get Andrew Bynum, and Denver would get Andre Iguodala. The only part of the trade not known for certain is whether Gasol will really be involved.
I like the trade for all four teams. Obviously the Lakers didn't want to give up both Bynum and Gasol but Howard is a special talent and by also getting Al Harrington in the deal it makes the loss of both Bynum and Gasol a little easier. The Magic obviously are losing an elite player but he was going to be gone eventually and they are getting a pretty good haul. They get a good veteran in Gasol, a good young player in Afflalo, and of course some draft picks and cap relief. The 76ers and Doug Collins get the true center they covet. Bynum will immediately become the 76ers number one offensive option. The Nuggets get a versatile small forward in Iguodala who will be able to thrive in George Karl's system.
I won't believe it until I see it but if this goes through the Lakers may become the favorites in the West. I can still see the Thunder and the Clippers giving them a run but that's about it. I would love to see a Durant/Westbrook/Harden vs Kobe/Nash/Howard West Finals.
I like the trade for all four teams. Obviously the Lakers didn't want to give up both Bynum and Gasol but Howard is a special talent and by also getting Al Harrington in the deal it makes the loss of both Bynum and Gasol a little easier. The Magic obviously are losing an elite player but he was going to be gone eventually and they are getting a pretty good haul. They get a good veteran in Gasol, a good young player in Afflalo, and of course some draft picks and cap relief. The 76ers and Doug Collins get the true center they covet. Bynum will immediately become the 76ers number one offensive option. The Nuggets get a versatile small forward in Iguodala who will be able to thrive in George Karl's system.
I won't believe it until I see it but if this goes through the Lakers may become the favorites in the West. I can still see the Thunder and the Clippers giving them a run but that's about it. I would love to see a Durant/Westbrook/Harden vs Kobe/Nash/Howard West Finals.
Update on the trade. It is all but official, however, it is a little different then first reported. In the current reported deal Gasol stays in LA. The Lakers get Howard, Denver still gets Iguodala, the 76ers get Bynum and Jason Richardson, and the Magic get Al Harrington/Afflalo/3 first round picks/Moe Harkless. I actually like this deal better for all three teams.