2/15/2007 1:27:00 PM
Alex Marvez interviews Wrestling Society X producer Kevin Kleinrock
Email: alex@wrestlingobserver.com
As producer and co-creator of pro wrestlings most innovative new promotion, Kevin Kleinrock is hoping that MTVs Wrestling Society X doesnt remain a secret one. The 28-year-old Kleinrock, who once worked with the now-defunct Xtreme Pro Wrestling group out of Southern California, has tried to create a product that features a new generation of high-flying wrestlers that also appeals to more traditional fans.
In the following interview conducted February 12, Kleinrock discusses the origins of WSX, his own background and goals for the promotion. A copy of my column on WSX can be found at
http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=PROWRESTLING15-02-15-07.
Q: How did this project come about?
Kleinrock: All the way back when I was working for XPW, we were eventually distributed by a home video company called Xtreme Entertainment Group. One of the founders and owners of that company was a guy named Houston Curtis. Years later after XPW was done, Houston and I met up again and he was running Big Vision Entertainment. I went to go work for him for his home video and television production/distribution company. We went to MTV to pitch them on another show. He used to be an MTV executive as well before. He was going to MTV to pitch them on a different television show and I mentioned I had an idea for a new take on rock and wrestling. He said we should sit down and discuss developing the show for MTV and take a pitch to them. We did a pilot for it in February 2006 and they gave us the green light over the summer and we filmed the rest of it in November.
Q: What was your inspiration for this?
Kleinrock: My two passions growing up in life -- other than my family at this point have always been wrestling and music. I grew up wanting to work in one industry or another. I went back and forth a lot with what I wanted to do with my life. After pursuing wrestling and working with Big Vision, it kind of kept my career in entertainment going. I was always looking forward to bringing those two worlds together again. Throughout my time working with XPW, I met so many bands and artists who liked wrestling and were fans of XPW. A lot of them were great punk rock bands people I listened to. It was surreal for Rancid to show up at an XPW event. To have these bands be fans of our product was just amazing. There were so many bands who were fans of wrestling who would potentially love to get involved in the project.
I was trying to figure out how I could blend that into a new style of wrestling that hopefully not just appeal to the current fan that is into wrestling but reach a whole new generation of fans and people who dont realty get what pro wrestling is now because in their minds its two 300 pound-plus guys doing leg drops or chin locks. They havent been exposed to a whole next generation of wrestlers like Matt Sydal or Ruckus and the guys were putting in there. Theyre putting on matches unlike most of the world has seen before.
Q: For whatever reason, it just seemed like this project took a long time to get off the ground after the pilot was shot.
Kleinrock: I think a lot of that had to do with just the natural progression that comes with launching a TV show, which is exactly the opposite of how every wrestling company had been launching up until now. Generally, the standard rule in wrestling is to start small, try to get local TV and expand regionally and hope and pray for a national spot
To the best of my knowledge, syndication projects aside, there was never a wrestling company or program that launched straight onto network television like this. Because of that, we were not in position to move this thing along any faster. Despite the fact that it did by wrestling industry standards take a long time, from the time we pitched the show to when the first episode aired was by TV standards not that long a time at all. It was average, if not maybe slightly faster, than what it usually takes for a new show to be developed and make it to the air. It was an experience for all of us. I know it was definitely confusing or trying the patience of a lot of wrestlers because they were basically under an exclusive TV contract with us from the time we did the pilot. But all of them have told me since then that it was well worth the wait and are excited about whats next for WSX.
Q: How much has the product changed from what you originally had in mind?
Kleinrock: The big difference really came between the pilot episode and the rest of them. Theres a difference between an air-able pilot for a normal show and a wrestling show
We knew from day one we had two things we had to do: 1) Convince MTV that this was a show for them and make sure the groundwork was laid for the storylines to progress from there. We had to give them the most over-the-top, spectacular product that they had never seen before in pro wrestling. Thats what the pilot was. I think we went out and put on a great high flying match-up with Matt Sydal and Jack Evans and did an over-the-top WSX rumble, which did what it was supposed to do, which was convince MTV to take the show to the air. We even heard when this pilot was screened along with some other pilots for that there MTV executives heard cheering and hooting and hollering from the audience. We heard the executives were really into the show. That was really good for us. They know it tested really well especially among males, which is one reason why they wanted to put it on because they want to capture some more of the male TV audience that they werent getting with some other programs. But people who saw from week one to week two and future weeks is definitely more focused on the in-ring action and a little more on angle and storylines. But weve only got 20 minutes -- actually 19 1/2 minutes and that includes a 30-second musical performance. So weve got 20 minutes a week to convince people to tune back in and watch us again and follow along. Given the time restraints, were giving exactly what we want to be delivering, especially when you combine it with the view that our web site provides a larger sense of the storylines and angles and characters. Angles that you might not have time to set up on TV you can most likely find on the site. All of these little intricacies that were not part of the pilot should give you a broader sense of what were doing and make the show much more than, Lets get out there and look at some high flying and crazy stunts. There are actual storylines that arc and drama that wasnt necessarily there in the pilot.
Q: What was it like not only assembling the roster but keeping everyone happy?
Kleinrock: The hardest part for us was keeping this roster together. I definitely worried considering we did the pilot in February. The guys who did the pilot were under contract, but I still had the sense to try getting it on the air as soon as possible because I wanted to keep everybody happy and working. A number of guys who made it to the show for the season I had all intention of bringing in from day one but there wasnt enough space and time on the pilot to do so. There was uncertainty of what was going on and when things would happen. We worked really hard putting the roster together and keeping things on the down-low because we didnt want another organization picking off the guys we were in negotiation with. A number of guys either I or others had seen or were familiar with following the indy circuits and watching tapes of ROH and PWG and other organizations. And then [Dr.] Keith Lipinski really came on board as the head of talent scouting. He would send input with his reports and footage of other guys we had heard of and read results of but had never seen like Tyler Black and Josh Abercrombie. Once I saw those guys, you could see they fit in perfectly with what were trying to do. Even with the roster wed assembled, when we got to the taping and did the matches, MTV was blown away. We felt some of the matches went above and beyond what they were expecting and hoping for because this is a group of guys who had never been together before. They just gelled so well. Out of the 40 matches that we filmed, 35 of them exceeded expectations.
Q: Obviously, this is not a traditional wrestling product. How concerned are you about alienating long-time fans with the presentation or does that even matter at this point because you could be tapping into a whole different audience?
Kleinrock: One of the major focuses were trying to maintain on the show is not to alienate the current wrestling fans. That comes from the fact people behind the scenes are wrestling fans. Were not about creating a spin-off of pro wrestling. This is about creating a new presentation of pro wrestling. Even with MTV, there are times where something would come up and we would say, What if we do this? and MTV always ends with the sentence, Would it turn off wrestling fans or go against what the traditional audience wants? Theyre very cognizant of not offending the sensibilities of the current fans. That does not mean we dont take some exceptions, like when we use explosions or the Jack Evans-Matt Sydal match only goes 3 ½ minutes. But again, with the timing of this thing, you have to look at having 19 minutes a week to try and provide the most action-packed 19 minutes youve ever seen. Ive seen multiple newspaper articles and reviews that in our 30 minutes we get just as much wrestling in as on Impact every week and sometimes as much as Raw. As far as the stunts and explosions, were just looking to do what others have done in wrestling before and take it to the next level. For example, in Episode Three, theres a spot that I can see some traditional fans would think a little above and beyond. However, my thinking on the spot was it was a spot that WWE had done before in some form and we went and delivered it in a much more spectacular way. I stand by it being a very cool moment on the show.
Definitely, the ability to sell moves has to be limited when youre dealing with a 3 ½-minute match. Youre forced to create a new psychology of a wrestling match where you dont want guys to go out there and just do high spots with no storytelling of a match or sense of believability. But youre just forced with the time restraint to do something different. But even with the stunts and explosions, its not like somebody is standing up 30 seconds later and no-selling a big thing. Yes, maybe on another program when a guy hits a moonsault you see a longer sell. But when you see our program, its the nature of the beast.
Q: How surprised were you to see WWE appear to so aggressively try to counter-program against WSX with ECW?
Kleinrock: It was definitely interesting. I had kind of heard rumblings and reports from other people and they were published now elsewhere about how Vince [McMahon] never got this worked up about anything that TNA ever did. That was kind of interesting to me. I think two things. If WSX can be successful, its good for the entire wrestling industry. One problem the industry has had in the last number of years is bringing new fans to the table. Ever since WCW closed, there are millions of less people watching on a weekly basis even with the little surges of popularity you see now and then. The industry, especially TNA, is struggling to bring new fans to the table. We at WSX look at this as a chance not only to put our show over but help revitalize the industry as a whole. If you can get a few million new fans who dont watch wrestling and watch our product on a weekly basis, the next thing is they become fans of wrestling and can watch the other shows. Its a great chance for them to discover WWE and TNA. I think its only going to be beneficial to the industry as a whole to see us excel and survive. But anyone knows and has studied Vince [McMahon] and sees what he sees in the business is the dollar that fans are willing to spend. He wants to make sure he and the WWE are receiving every cent of that dollar they can whether from a business or ego sense in trying to crush everything else that comes along. I guess thats kind of what got to him was the fact we didnt launch on pay-per-view or a small network. We launched on the biggest network in the world. Viacom has the ability to put this show in more countries than WWE is currently on. Thats just the scope of what WSX and MTV can do together. Obviously, thats something in the back of his head.
Q: Obviously, Spike TV is owned by Viacom. How does this affect what WSX does with another Viacom-owned network like MTV?
Kleinrock: Despite the fact both are network-owned -- Spike actually falls under the MTV network division by the same company, each network is responsible for creating programming to bring in viewers. One network on a day-to-day basis doesnt deal with the other network. The program and decision-makers are completely separate. And its much a different situation with how both wrestling companies are set up. TNA is a privately owned company that Spike puts on the air. WSX, at this point, is a TV program that Big Vision Entertainment produces for MTV but the business of WSX at this point is a collaborative effort between Big Vision and MTV. It comes down to the fact MTV and Spike are out there to get the best rating possible for the network and see wrestling as one way to do so.
Q: What are the short- and long-term goals for WSX?
Kleinrock: The short-term goal is to have the first season be as successful as possible and have MTV bring the show back on the air after the 10 episodes are done as quickly as possible. MTVs traditional model is not to re-run seasons back to back. They take normal TV breaks between seasons. The question now is where does WSX fit into that and what kind of break, if any, is there going to be between season one and season two. In terms of the long-term goals, were really looking to expand the WSX brand. All of our focus has been on the television shows and putting our efforts into what airs on TV. But obviously, the words pay-pew-view and tour and merchandise and video games all have been discussed, at least across the lunch table at this point. Were really looking to work with MTV to build this brand and bring WSX into the pop culture conversation worldwide. Guys who six months ago were relatively unheard of within the general population in a few months to be in position, and Im pretty confident of this, better known than guys like Umaga and the Great Khali and guys theyre pushing in WWE as well as be better know that all of the TNA roster except for a Sting or a Kurt Angle. This is a huge opportunity to have this roster kind of break through and be heralded as the new generation of pro wrestling.
Alex Marvez's weekly pro wrestling column can be found in the South Florida Sun-Sentinel, Denver Rocky Mountain News, Biloxi Sun-Herald, Abilene Reporter, Boulder Daily Camera, San Angelo Standard-Times, The Oklahoman, Honolulu Star-Bulletin and other select newspapers that subscribe to the Scripps-Howard News Service.
