Monday Night Raw - April 29, 2013 LD

[The Butcher]

I question why everyone cares about your reviews? What is your credentials that makes you a know it all about WWE? I'm not trying to be an ass but I'm seriously curious.

Not everyone. He is knowledgeable, but knowing facts and forming solid opinions out of those facts aren't the same.

You seem to get very defensive whenever someone doesn't immediately back down.

FTFY

He needed help from 2 people to beat Kofi Kingston.

Couldn't give you another rep, so I'm just quoting this for truth. Quality win, though. Totally makes the World Champion look strong going into his triple threat ladder match against the ex-champ who beat down the Big Show twice to win the title and the guy who beat him clean in his first televised match after winning the title.

 

[klunderbunker]

It was Kofi Kingston. You know what have made him look better? Showing that the World Heavyweight Champion could beat the Intercontinental Champion on his own. Instead, they make Kofi look like he could beat the champ. How does that help Ziggler?

Why would he want to beat Wade Barrett?

It shows that Ziggler was in trouble and then made a comeback. Notice that Ziggler avoided Kofi's splash on his own and hit his finisher on his own. He won on his own. That's how it helped.

 

[Nate DaMac]

And I would assume you have ridiculous standards and will rarely if ever be happy with what WWE produces.

Uh, I haven't complained about Raw in a while. In fact, I was higher on it the past few weeks than you were. Again, it's likely because you actually watched it for 3 hours and I probably watched 45 minutes of them at best.

That's because there's an injury.

I'm starting to doubt it.

Also the idea of resentment/jealousy is still there: Ryback knew Cena was hurt (Cena's own word to him earlier in the night) and didn't want to face Shield in a glorified 3-1 handicap match again, which was the whole point of his heel turn in the first place. It ties in quite well.

Yeah okay, I'll give you that. I have been digging this program, I was just digging it more the past 2 weeks.

It's an old classic.

I have no expectations.

Still the biggest win Shield has ever had.

Never argued otherwise. I'm just getting bored with the formula.

The Tensai/Brodus stuff didn't do much. It did however set up the Sheamus part. It's something different than the same stuff over and over again. I believe you used the term mundane for it earlier?

Different≠good.

I'd love to know what you expect from a show then.

There's nothing they can do to get me to love a show top-to-bottom barring firing 75% of the roster. These guys just don't interest me. I have been loving the top stories so far. The real top stories, Ryback/Cena, Shield Kane/DB, Trips/Lesnar. The midcard sucks.

Neither do I but it's better than looking at Khali dancing around.

I suppose.

I get frustrated having to explain the correct reactions to people.

I think you're just a cunt.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Why would he want to beat Wade Barrett?

Oh, you. Same difference.

It shows that Ziggler was in trouble and then made a comeback. Notice that Ziggler avoided Kofi's splash on his own and hit his finisher on his own. He won on his own. That's how it helped.

Uh, yeah except that Kofi had him out for a 3-count when AJ put his leg on the rope. He did not win on his own.

 

[klunderbunker]

Uh, I haven't complained about Raw in a while. In fact, I was higher on it the past few weeks than you were. Again, it's likely because you actually watched it for 3 hours and I probably watched 45 minutes of them at best.

Whoa whoa whoa.

You watched less than a third of the show and you're saying I'm wrong on most of it?

Why am I arguing with you then?

I think you're just a cunt.

And I think you're someone who should actually watch the show in full before you explain why you think it was so underwhelming.

 

[klunderbunker]

Oh, you. Same difference.

Black African, high flier, face
White Englishman, brawler, heel.

You have a very strange definition of the word "same".

Uh, yeah except that Kofi had him out for a 3-count when AJ put his leg on the rope. He did not win on his own.

*heavy sigh*

Heels

Cheat.

It's

What

They

Do.

If they don't, they're faces.

One bit of cheating in the middle of the match doesn't mean he won on his own. He won with a Zig Zag. AJ kept him from (maybe) getting pinned. She did not help him get the pin.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Whoa whoa whoa.

You watched less than a third of the show and you're saying I'm wrong on most of it?

Why am I arguing with you then?



And I think you're someone who should actually watch the show in full before you explain why you think it was so underwhelming.

I told you earlier that I had watched this entire episode and that was likely why I didn't enjoy it. This post that you're quoting here says that I had only watched about 45 minutes the previous 2 weeks.

Keep up.

 

[klunderbunker]

I told you earlier that I had watched this entire episode and that was likely why I didn't enjoy it. This post that you're quoting here says that I had only watched about 45 minutes the previous 2 weeks.

Keep up.

Oh.

Well you're just kind of dense then.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Black African, high flier, face
White Englishman, brawler, heel.

You have a very strange definition of the word "same".





*heavy sigh*

Heels

Cheat.

It's

What

They

Do.

If they don't, they're faces.

Jesus, dude. Who the fuck has ever needed help beating Kofi whilst being a World Champion? Punk? Miz? Orton? They all beat him clean as champion. It's not that he needed to cheat to win, it's that he needed to cheat to beat Kofi fucking Kingston.

 

[The Butcher]

You guys have fun. I'll just leave this here.

The high point of the show was that they had four matches receiving over 12 minutes or more of in-ring time. That makes me happy. I wish it was like that every week. None of the matches stood out from the pack, but they were all entertaining to me.

The low points of the show involved time filling segments like the dance off and the tug of war competition. At least there wasn't a pose down. The divas match was also bad too.

In terms of promos none of them really stood out.

QFT

 

[klunderbunker]

Jesus, dude. Who the fuck has ever needed help beating Kofi whilst being a World Champion? Punk? Miz? Orton? They all beat him clean as champion. It's not that he needed to cheat to win, it's that he needed to cheat to beat Kofi fucking Kingston.

Incorrect.

According to my notes and two wrestling datebases, neither Punk or Orton have ever faced Kingston while world champion in a one on one match. Miz did though and it took a distraction from Del Rio to win.

You're wrong. Again.

 

[klunderbunker]

You guys have fun. I'll just leave this here.



QFT

Who is John Canton?

 

[Nate DaMac]

Incorrect.

According to my notes and two wrestling datebases, neither Punk or Orton have ever faced Kingston while world champion in a one on one match. Miz did though and it took a distraction from Del Rio to win.

You're wrong. Again.

You were right about Punk and Orton, I got my timelines mixed up. But Miz did beat Kofi clean while he was champion.

 

[klunderbunker]

You were right about Punk and Orton, I got my timelines mixed up. But Miz did beat Kofi clean while he was champion.

When would this be?

The only match I can find between the two of them from Miz's title reign was from February 18, 2011 on Smackdown. From my review:

Kofi Kingston vs. The Miz

This should be good. I’m in the minority here but I absolutely love hearing Cole talk about Miz. Basic back and forth style to start with Kofi grabbing an armbar. Booker praises Miz, saying he worked his way up from the bottom and that he has charisma. He does have a big mouth however but Cole doesn’t care as he has Booker’s endorsement of the Miz.

Miz is sent into the corner and Kofi tries what looks like either a Stinger Splash or a jumping Superman punch. Either way he misses and lands on the middle rope. Miz kicks the foot out though and takes over as we take a break. Back with Miz in control with a kick to the gut and a suplex for two.

Kofi fights back with kicks but can’t get the SOS. Miz is sent into the middle buckle and Kofi gets a shot for two. Kofi kind of misses the pendulum kick in the corner and gets the cross body for two. Backbreaker/neckbreaker combination (that needs a name) by Miz gets two. They’re going back and forth here but neither is seeming to go for the kill yet. Kofi does that thing where it looks like he bounces his head off the top rope to spring backwards.

Superman punch sets up the Boom Drop which sets up the Trouble in Paradise. Here’s Alberto though, doing what can almost be called Slick’s walk down the aisle. The distraction lets Miz get a rollup for two in a nice false finish. Kofi puts Miz down for a second but Alberto snaps his scarf at him which is enough of a distraction to allow Miz to hit the Skull Crushing Finale to end it at 6:46 shown of 10:16.

Rating: C+. These are the kind of wins Miz needs and the kind of matches I’d love to see more often on WWE TV. In one week he’s beaten Bryan clean and Kofi not quite clean. Kofi and Bryan aren’t on Miz’s level so it’s not like they’re being dropped down or anything. Miz looks good and gets credible wins, no one is lowered in value and we get decent matches. What’s wrong with that?

Distraction means not a clean win.

 

[HBK/RKO]

Speaking of Miz, I just realized he was missing from raw tonight and I don't think he was there last week either.

 

[klunderbunker]

Speaking of Miz, I just realized he was missing from raw tonight and I don't think he was there last week either.

I don't think he's been seen since the night after Wrestlemania.

 

[HBK/RKO]

Yeah, I think the last time we seen him he lost the title to Barrett. Hopefully he takes a bit of time off and comes back a heel because his face run is brutal. He can quit with the figure four leg lock while he's at it too

 

[Nate DaMac]

When would this be?

The only match I can find between the two of them was from February 18, 2011 on Smackdown. From my review:



Distraction means not a clean win.

I found the match I was thinking of. I mixed up the titles. Fuck, okay I admit that I failed with those examples. Delberto beat him clean while being champion, though. So did Daniel Bryan, in less than a minute. Why does Ziggler need help?

 

[klunderbunker]

I found the match I was thinking of. I mixed up the titles. Fuck, okay I admit that I failed with those examples. Delberto beat him clean while being champion, though. So did Daniel Bryan, in less than a minute. Why does Ziggler need help?

Well first of all I'd question the comparison of two matches that barely combined to be three minutes long to one which lasted over ten.

To answer your question, for one thing Kofi knows Ziggler better so he would be able to hang in there longer against him. Second, Ziggler was in trouble but not beaten yet. He didn't necessarily need the help (yes I'm stretching). Ziggler won the match with a clean pinfall, over the US Champion. That's a boost for him, small bit of help aside.

 

[JJYanks121]

Who is John Canton?

Dude who runs TJRWrestling.com, as in a wrestling site on the same network that pays your bills. Good dude too, though he's Canadian so that brings him down a peg.

 

[klunderbunker]

Dude who runs TJRWrestling.com, as in a wrestling site on the same network that pays your bills. Good dude too, though he's Canadian so that brings him down a peg.

Ah I see. Back in the old days.

 

[JJYanks121]

Ah I see. Back in the old days.

I..........really don't know what that means.

 

[The Butcher]

Dude who runs TJRWrestling.com, as in a wrestling site on the same network that pays your bills. Good dude too, though he's Canadian so that brings him down a peg.

Also a featured columnist on the Layfield Report. One of the more respected reviewers and columnists in the IWC. Knows more than most, but isn't a prick about it.

Please do. It's pretty clear you have little idea what you're talking about when you say a win over Cena didn't mean as much as the one last week (or whatever you said. That might have been someone else) but what do I know?

I didn't want to get in between you and Nate's little tiff, but you fail to recall that Tensai beat Cena one-on-one, clean, sans injury. That sure did shoot him to the moon didn't it?

Oh, and Dolph beat Kofi clean numerous times without help in the past, and remained a heel every time.

What do you know? Don't pretend to be an authority and then cherry pick information. It's 2013. We all have access to the facts. I was being smarmy earlier when I said I'd quit reading reviews, but your knee-jerk defensiveness and know-it-all attitude cost yourself my future pageviews. Learn to show some grace, bud.

My piece has been said. Hope there are no hard feelings.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I didn't want to get in between you and Nate's little tiff, but you fail to recall that Tensai beat Cena one-on-one, clean, sans injury. That sure did shoot him to the moon didn't it?

Tensai didn't really beat him clean. Nor did The Shield tonight. In both cases, Cena was protected in defeat. I've had my ass handed to me in a similar debate with Gelgarin. A resounding defeat that I haven't been able to shake for some time.

KB's still totally full of shit for thinking that Ziggler came away looking good in his match with Kofi. I could understand Ziggler needing to cheat to beat guys like Swagger or Del Rio, they've won meaningful main event matches in the past. Kofi has never won anything meaningful. Being a chickenshit heel doesn't mean that you have to cheat every single time. There was absolutely no reason for Ziggler not to get a clean win there unless they're actually going to try to insert Kofi into the title picture.

Not that I'm really complaining about Ziggler looking like shit. This is the first title reign I've ever wanted to fail.

 

[The Butcher]

Tensai didn't really beat him clean. Nor did The Shield tonight. In both cases, Cena was protected in defeat. I've had my ass handed to me in a similar debate with Gelgarin. A resounding defeat that I haven't been able to shake for some time.

The Sakamoto distraction/mist? Fair enough. Cena was protected, but his shoulders were on the mat, and he wasn't injured. Tensai was a heel and it's my understanding that cheating is what he was supposed to do, otherwise he'd be a face. In any event it was just as clean as The Shield's victory, thus it was a big victory over John Cena. And it amounted to the guy being repackaged as Brodus Clay's sidekick.

I'll leave the rest alone. I've got nothing against KB, but this "I'm right because I say I'm right" bullshit is an epidemic around the IWC. It's a fake sport with worked results and no rubric to judge anything on. All of this crap is opinion, and mine is as valid as anyone who's done nothing but watch wrestling tapes.