**MERGED** CM Punk heel turn? (Keep it in here!!!!)

[closet_fan]

They can have Cena throw $20s in the crowd. He'll still be boo'd at NOC. IMO, Punk beating Cena would be the ultimate turn for Punk's new persona. Especially if it wasn't a clean win, which it won't be. Cena would never EVER lose clean to Punk.

I want Punk to be the new Piper. A guy some love to hate, but many still love simply because he was Piper.

Although that back and forth exchange between Punk/Lawler was terrible.

Punk: That's why I kicked you in your stupid head. WTF was that?

 

[sanefan_har]

Was CM Punk's heel turn a sacrifice, a chance to take his leave, or something completely different?

Why would CM Punk want to leave (aside from taking a backseat to Cena, Rock, Hunter)? He's still a main event player, isn't he? He's had 10 consecutive PPV wins since becoming a Two-Time WWE Champion at Survivor Series 2011, right? Sure, he's not on the last match of every PPV since Royal Rumble 2012, but he's still one of WWE's hot commodities.



While I agree with you that Punk didn't need to go heel and just be Anti-Rock, him beating Jerry senseless was actually necessary for the WWE to get the fans to boo him. Being cheered as a WWE Hall-of-Famer and all, Jerry was the perfect guy, aside from Rock, to put over Punk as a heel. Still, the smart fans still keep on cheering Punk, which isn't gonna sit well with Vince. So much for the big "Summer Angle".

Beating him senseless? Please, D-Bryan beat Lawler in 2 minutes to face Punk as the no.1 contender. This doesn't make Punk get hated because he beat up a face, its because he took a heck of longer time despite having the advantage of a steel cage? And Cena can't climb a bloody cage, yet he's still cheered as a superhero.

 

[sanefan_har]

Cm punk will never beat cena clean you say? he beat him clean at money in the banka and summerslam 2011 clean!

At Money In the Bank, Vince came out to perform yet another screwjob, Cena said "No!" and turned around to get a GTS. In kayfabe, Cena was unintentionally distracted.

At Summerslam, Cena had his foot on the rope. Trips didn't notice it.

Ergo, as much as I dislike Cena, he didn't lose clean. It wasn't heelish tactics,, but bad timing (once again, kayfabe wise)

 

[Mustang Sally]

He could have stayed in the ring to show him dominance.....

Sure, but that's the essence of a heel, no? The reason Punk left the ring in a hurry was to avoid John Cena, who was out for blood after watching him brutalize Lawler. It's always been amusing to watch a guy who was brave and valiant as a face suddenly show craven cowardice when he goes heel. Don't think Punk will be immune to this; it's just that he'll talk a better game after displaying it, telling us that: "Discretion is the better part of valor" while we're yelling at him: "Get back in the ring, chickenshit!"

If anyone is still doubting whether Punk has truly gone bad, watching him slip (crawl!) under the steel cage as it was lifted should be enough to convince you.

 

[Brothervis]

If anyone is still doubting whether Punk has truly gone bad, watching him slip (crawl!) under the steel cage as it was lifted should be enough to convince you.

Thats the reason why Cena needs to change it up. Man ain't a wrestler he's just a terrible actor(raise the cage). AE was about ass kicking where Cena is about kissing ass huge difference. Punk is a face to people 13 and older while he is a heel to 12 and younger and some people on this board call him a heel therefore they are 12 and younger

 

[MrMojoRisin]

I still have trouble accepting Punk as a heel. The whole Lawler thing was unnecessary in the first place.

The Lawler thing became absolutely necessary when we got to watch Punk channel Andy Kaufman in that cage match.

The singing to Lawler? That was classic Kaufman all the way. I think Punk even got all the words right too.

Even the role reversal at the beginning of the match when Punk sat there and offered Lawler the first move. That is exactly what Lawler did in his first match with Kaufman.

Too bad the WWE doesn't allow the piledriver anymore... because that would have been the perfect spot to end the match with.

 

[Ethelion]

Beating him senseless?

I'm guessing that you didn't watch Raw last Monday. I obviously meant the beatdown after the match. What Punk did to Jerry after the match was morally senseless but practically makes sense character-wise since he IS playing the bad guy.

 

[asiatic7]

For the last month or so....I hope this wasn't touched on, I looked on all the WWE threads, I didn't see anything remotely close so....here it is.

The last month of WWE Raw featured an old but new attitude from CM Punk. Punk is obviously back on the dark side and Paul Heyman just might have solidified that turn, maybe.

I say maybe because it seemed like no matter what wrong Punk did in the last month, It had no effect on the WWE Universe. When he attacked the "Universe's" beloved Rock, he came out to cheers the following week. When he belittled Jerry Lawlers HOF credentials and later, "humbled" the King of Memphis by leaving him a pile of rubble in the middle of the ring...twice, you, the WWE Universe cheered him again, now nothing screams heel like taking out a bonified legend like Lawler. Last night, Punk came out to his hometown crowd to a hero's welcome even after taking out poor Jerry again. Now I think I understand WWE logic to a degree. I think they are trying to turn Punk Heel so he can go in the Royal Rumble PPV as the villian against the Rock. I feel this way because if Punk were to go in as a face, he has the ability to steal Rock's thunder and WWE doesn't want that. I feel they are building towards Punk dropping the WWE title to Rock at Royal Rumble so he, in turn, can drop it to Cena in a Wrestlemania rematch.

Could I be wrong? Yes. But the real question is, will you, the WWE Universe allow Punk to be a heel? Remember when they tried this with Austin? Hogan in WCW? Didn't quite go as planned.

Now most of you on this site predicted a Punk/Heyman alliance (good for you, pat yourself on the back!). Does this alliance make you more of a Punk fan or are you discusted by these actions? And finally, will this be the move to generate heat for Punk....finally.

 

[TheGame2029]

I think Punk's heel turn might end up like Bret Hart's in the late '90's, or The Rock's a year or so later. He'll get boos, but fans will pop for him as well. He's too good on the mic, and he's too over with the crowd to become a full fledged heel. Heyman will help out to a point, but in the end I just don't see Punk staying heel for long.

 

[Kelso1ftw]

I think it will be in the next week or two or it will go full fledged at NOC when he battles Cena, I believe every week he is getting closer and closer, and honestly this week he looked like an old school bad ass heel that just basically does whatever he wants and isn't more or less look like a coward but at the same time takes advantage of situations to further himself.

 

[Ryberg]

I am REALLY not sold on that. Heyman will help BUT he still has a huge following and will get cheered no matter what. As long as he beats up Cena on a weekly basis, he will get cheers. The ONLY WAY he's really going over as a heel is jumping and beating down a fan favorite face and Cena just isn't it. How many weeks of beating up Cena and Lawler and still getting cheered will it take for the WWE to realize it's really not working.

I can understand they both want to work together and Punk realizes as long as Cena's around there will be no top face besides Cena. Which is unfortunate because a majority of fans are bored with Super Cena.

 

[asiatic7]

You know, I said before on another thread that if he would have disgraced Jim Ross in the same manner he did King, I think that would have gotten him TONS of heat from the fans. JR is probobably the most beloved figure in wrestling today in any compacity. Nobody likes to see JR get taken advantage of...unless you last name in McMahon.

 

[MrStu01]

I have an interesting angle which came to me after seeing RAW. With Lesnar and heyman now on new contracts could we see a potential turn on Punk maybe say before Rumble? I know PPVs are running out but a possible storyline is they turn on Punk win the title off him and that sets up Rock vs Brock....not what people want BUT it does solve WWE's Mania dilemma with Lesnar Rock Cena and Taker. Nobody wants Cena vs Rock 2 and also could add Punk to that mix if he drops the belt? Its only an idea and bones need meat but what you guys rekon? worth a shot?

 

[Ryberg]

You know, I said before on another thread that if he would have disgraced Jim Ross in the same manner he did King, I think that would have gotten him TONS of heat from the fans. JR is probobably the most beloved figure in wrestling today in any compacity. Nobody likes to see JR get taken advantage of...unless you last name in McMahon.

See THAT would get him over as a heel. The weekly beat downs of Cena, Lawler won't! I mean come on no one REALLY cares about him interrupting Sheamus. He actually spared us all from another long boring Sheamus speech filled with fellas.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

See THAT would get him over as a heel. The weekly beat downs of Cena, Lawler won't! I mean come on no one REALLY cares about him interrupting Sheamus. He actually spared us all from another long boring Sheamus speech filled with fellas.

I had to quote because I straight up at that last sentence.

But It will take a lot to convince the fans that Punk is heel. He will have to do something so horrible that fans will have no choice but to boo. But I don't think the WWE could do that without breaking any laws.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

I had to quote because I straight up at that last sentence.

But It will take a lot to convince the fans that Punk is heel. He will have to do something so horrible that fans will have no choice but to boo. But I don't think the WWE could do that without breaking any laws.

What it will take is for him to go all heel on someone who actually has sympathy with the fans.

Lawler would have been fine... if he hasn't been used for a couple wrestling angles per year for the last while. The King's promoted as someone who can still hold his own when he needs to... and even then, he never actually gave a reason better than 'because' for not giving Punk the respect that he feels he deserves. Lawler has actually been playing the face role horribly the last few weeks, and hasn't been doing his job in helping the heel Punk get his heat.

When it comes to a guy who's over like Punk is and they're trying to turn him... doing it against a guy the fans hate like Cena, or a guy who basically was asking for a fight like Lawler isn't going to work. You don't hate Punk for beating up Lawler... you actually just hope that the 60 year old Uncle Jerry's finally gotten it through his head that it's not 1985 anymore.

Someone mentioned it above... but JR would have been perfect in this situation. There probably isn't a guy the WWE can bring out today that has a bigger sympathy factor, and the fans would have a harder time getting behind someone pushing JR around.

 

[Mustang Sally]

... but JR would have been perfect in this situation. There probably isn't a guy the WWE can bring out today that has a bigger sympathy factor, and the fans would have a harder time getting behind someone pushing JR around.

Can't argue with that. After all, even Michael Cole was able to generate heat by going against good ol' J.R. Plus, Kane got plenty of negative attention after setting Ross on fire. Picking on the old Sooner is a great way to become unpopular.

It's important to remember, though, that of the thousands of people that pack an arena on a given night, probably not all that many are wrestling fans; i.e. people like us, who follow printed accounts of what's going on in the "sport." They are there just for the evening's entertainment. As a result, the crowd in Chicago was going to go nuts for Punk even after he bashed Jerry Lawler, since even the non-fans knew the King wasn't really hurt.

Still, we'd like to see the fans in attendance get into the act a little more, no? I'd like to ask if there was booing when Punk walked out of the arena. If there was anything that could cause the hometown crowd to turn against him, that's the type of thing that would do it. Did it?

But, let's face it: if there are 15,000 people in the audience and maybe 1000 who give an actual damn who the guys in the ring are, I'd be surprised. The folks on this forum may see the logic of turning on Punk, but recent events show it's going to be a tough thing to achieve. Walking off the show is a good start, but I'm anxious to see what else Creative comes up with.

 

[steven87gill]

Can't argue with that. After all, even Michael Cole was able to generate heat by going against good ol' J.R. Plus, Kane got plenty of negative attention after setting Ross on fire. Picking on the old Sooner is a great way to become unpopular.

The fact they didn't go with JR says to me either they misjuged how popular Jerry Lawler is, or they simply aren't invested in the idea of turning him full heel at all, no matter how much smarks on here think it's a great idea.

The folks on this forum may see the logic of turning on Punk, but recent events show it's going to be a tough thing to achieve. Walking off the show is a good start, but I'm anxious to see what else Creative comes up with.

Sure, he walked away, but he managed to make the crowd agree with him on it. He keeps walking this fine line between being an asshole and being right.

I mean if they'd wanted genuine heel heat from Chicago, they'd have him align with someone like John Laurninitus, but no, they went with Paul Heyman, which is only going to solidify the older fanbase on the side of Punk.

Vince has been burned by ill judged heel turns in the past (*cough*Austin*cough*) and it's not going to take many more mixed reactions before he's forced into a rethink. He'll go with whatever guarantees him the most £££, and If full on heel punk is not a draw or a merchandise mover, then It will quickly be binned in favour of a more middle of the road approach.

(I think that's exactly what's happened here, actually)

 

[Vampira]

Honestly, I liked cm punk as a face, him as the leader of the new nextus as a heel was ok, but he was annoying to me when he was leader of straight edge Society, of what I did see because I didn't watch smackdown, for a very long time due to not having the channel and I probably got to see him maybe 3 times, However, So far, I enjoy cm punk being heel this time around. Hope they don't ruin it.

 

[Cereal Killer]

Looking at what we saw from RAW last night, does anyone here think that CM Punk is finally a heel? He struggled to get himself booed in the recent weeks and it eventually happened in Montreal. But Canada is Canada, not USA. When the WWE go back to the US (NOC), will he still get booed? He had an encounter with Hart and Cena and got owned by both as a heel.

Thoughts?

 

[The Average Guy]

CM Punk is one of those guys thats going to have to work hard to get heat. He's pretty much going to have to say different things and turn each individual city aganist him. Last night was an easy one because all he had to do was interupt Bret Hart in Montreal, so of course that got him booed.

The final lingering factor is depending on the extent him and Paul Heyman go. His involvment with Heyman could be what he needs to completly get over as a heel in every city.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

I dunno. This pairing just seems kind of odd to me. I'm sure we'll learn more about the relationship between Heyman and Punk in the coming weeks, but when it comes to mic time, I do have some concerns. Being an obnoxious and loud-mouthed jackass is Heyman's greatest strength on the mic, but Punk working the mic as a smart-mouthed jerk is his greatest strength. Both guys will have to fight over the mic, and this could become a problem in the long run.

Unlike Brock Lesnar, CM Punk doesn't need help on the mic. Punk is more than capable of turning any live crowd against him on his own, but Heyman's mere presence will do wonders for his heel turn. Paul Heyman is a slimy douchebag, he can always portray the perfect annoying villain, and he will bring more heat towards Punk. You can forget about a tweener character, because an alliance with Paul Heyman will send Punk down the path of being a full blown heel.

 

[slice_of_life]

Heel or face, CM Punk will always get cheered. The same way that he did when he was heel with the Nexus, SES, and his feud with Jeff Hardy. The older fan base will always cheer him because they recognize talent, the same reason why Ziggler gets pop.

I just don't like that he is becoming a cookie-cutter cowardly heel. How do you take someone who has dominated for a year and make it so they all of the sudden have to resort to dirty tactics? Although I'm sure much of this is actually Punks choice.

I also hate the fact that he will drop the title to the Rock at RR just so it can set up Rock/Cena II. It should be Punk losing at NOC, Cena losing to Rock at RR and Punk winning at Mania. But that's just my opinion.

 

[IT Factor]

I like that WWE have finally committed to the heel turn for Punk. He seems to be at his best when he is a heel as far as mic work is concerned and I'm intrigued by his association with Heyman. It'll be interesting to see where this will lead and how it may affect Heyman/Lesnar as well as Lesnar/Punk. The only forseeable drawback of Punk going full heel is that they always make it seem more important for him to take shortcuts and act cowardly and his ring work suffers for it. They spend more time emphasizing the heel tactics used more than his impressive reportiore of moves. I cannot understand why they do this, but it is the same everytime Punk goes heel.

It also seems like Punk used to get the final word as a face on the mic. Now as a heel, they've kinda made it look like Cena gets the better of him and Punk ignores it. Which is a heel tactic, to be sure. However, it is dumbfouding that they expect us to believe that the same CM Punk that owned Cena a year ago cannot offer counterpoints to John Cena now. And I'm fully expecting Punk to lose his WWE Championship match to Cena @ NOC. Which really sucks because his title reign is just now starting to get longer and more prestiegious. I'm afraid that Cena will win and Punk will take a backseat to Rock/Cena II, which totally made all that "Once in a Lifetime" spiel useless. Guess they'll have to change it to "Twice in a Lifetime". Whatever the case turns out to be, I'm hoping they can maintain CM Punk's heel momentum and keep him interesting enough to remain relevant on television and still have his match with The Rock @ Royal Rumble. Or at the very least Punk/Rock @ Wrestlemania 29.