I think it's mostly because A) Rock only Rock Bottoms guys that are heels B) Cena only AAs guys that are heels C) Orton typically only RKOs heels (Sheamus excluded) D) Jericho only gives the Codebreaker to faces (until he they teased him turning face by giving one to Ziggler)....so um, Punk clothesline Rock (another face) and giving him the GTS makes him look like a heel. Wrestling 101....
**MERGED** CM Punk heel turn? (Keep it in here!!!!)
- Thread starter aallen11
- Start date
bittermang
Occasional Pre-Show
Yeah, it's almost like they're rediscovering the much beloved business model of the oft romanticized Attitude Era, which itself was discovered by WCW and the nWo, and was a core pillar of the ECW business model as well: Do cool shit. Sell shirts.
For the record, I'm not buying a "heel" turn. He's made it expressly clear any time anyone has put a mic in front of his face his feelings about Rock, John Cena, and wrestling as a whole. He confronted The Rock in the middle of that night with the same rhetoric he's been preaching, and he signed it this time with a Go To Sleep. There was no turn. Nothing changed. He simply had an opportunity, after retaining his title, to act upon it. And he sent a message to The Rock, as you pointed out anyone else on the roster would have been explained.
But as everyone else said, then Jerry said he turned his back, and so that means heel turn now LOL! Punk was mean to that ol' Rock Man! But you all like that guy! Punk must be heel now! Nope, I'm not buying it.
And if Punk "turning heel" means we get to go back to that promo that started this transition in to the social WWE that we all love so much, then good. Punk executes better when he's being mean to The Rock by giving him a GTS, or calling John Cena out for being a corporate superman, than he does when he's grinning and cutting promos like he's everybody's buddy, but with a tongue in cheek sarcastic edge.
Midnite Express 2009
Getting Noticed By Management
Everyone's talking about CM Punk's heel turn. If this were a legit turn, it was one of the weakest ones I've seen in a long, long time. Possibly ever. I agree with the original poster that all CM Punk was doing was sending a message. He's the WWE Champion, and here comes The Rock (quickly becoming my least favorite after John Cena) to basically mock Punk (and Daniel Bryan) and talk about how he wants to be WWE Champion again, making and naming his own matches (similar to a certain somebody named Hulk Hogan) and insults Punk. Now, CM Punk being the WWE Champion has to step up and protect his title. All he did on Monday night was basically deliver a message to The Rock (and John Cena) that he's the WWE Champion and you're gonna have to bring your A game to take the title off him. Big deal that The Rock gave a spinebuster to The Big Show & flexed it up. Been there/done that. I'm glad Big Show stopped Super Cena's 1 millionth come back. I'm also glad that Punk didn't do anything to stop his beatdown.
The one thing though that bothered me was Jerry Lawler crying like "CM Punk turned his back on the WWE Universe." 1st of all, there is NO WWE Universe. I hate that moniker and what it stands for. But beyond that, what did Punk do to turn his back? Did he leave to go to TNA? Back to ROH? Did he do like last year & threaten to leave with the WWE title? He did basically what Austin would've done in the same position, what Flair would have done in the same position. He protected his title. AND he sent a message. How is that turning heel?
A heel turn would have been Brock Lesner coming out & attacking Cena (NOT The Big Show) and setting up a partnership with Punk, Lesner & Heyman. I was so waiting on Lesner to come out, but WWE so dropped the ball on that one. But then instead we get The Big Show & The Rock. Who freaking cares? WWE had a gold mine on Monday night, but instead they choose the tried & true method.
Punk is the Champion. He appreciates being the Champion and I'm willing to bet that there will eventually be a slow turn, but it's not the major swerve they'll predictably hype it up to be on Smackdown Friday and on Monday Night Raw. WWE better do something because Monday sucked ass and I thought it would've been a helluva lot better!
The one thing though that bothered me was Jerry Lawler crying like "CM Punk turned his back on the WWE Universe." 1st of all, there is NO WWE Universe. I hate that moniker and what it stands for. But beyond that, what did Punk do to turn his back? Did he leave to go to TNA? Back to ROH? Did he do like last year & threaten to leave with the WWE title? He did basically what Austin would've done in the same position, what Flair would have done in the same position. He protected his title. AND he sent a message. How is that turning heel?
A heel turn would have been Brock Lesner coming out & attacking Cena (NOT The Big Show) and setting up a partnership with Punk, Lesner & Heyman. I was so waiting on Lesner to come out, but WWE so dropped the ball on that one. But then instead we get The Big Show & The Rock. Who freaking cares? WWE had a gold mine on Monday night, but instead they choose the tried & true method.
Punk is the Champion. He appreciates being the Champion and I'm willing to bet that there will eventually be a slow turn, but it's not the major swerve they'll predictably hype it up to be on Smackdown Friday and on Monday Night Raw. WWE better do something because Monday sucked ass and I thought it would've been a helluva lot better!
Everyone look at Kevin Nash's Twitter. He is pretty much saying that Punk is going to be the leader of the new nWo, but wasnt that supposed to happen last summer and it turned out to be a ******ed storyline with The Miz and Truth getting into the HITC and beating up on ADR and Punk. smh WWE must really think we are ******s or Kevin Nash is just a compulsive liar and cannot be take seriously.
LoudClearVoice
Mid-Card Championship Winner
What would be sweet is if Punk is cutting a promo next week and then Rock interupts him and appears live to announce he's not going to wait for the Rumble, he's going to challenge Punk for the belt at Summer Slam. That would be a great angle.
Boston Made Mark
New Member
So yes, at a glance and based on crowd reaction, it was a heel turn. However, people have said that they wanted to see Punk make that heel turn then complain about it after it's done because it wasn't done to their standards? Either way, I think they left enough room to back out and continue with Punk being the anti-hero tweener if they decided to do so.
What bothers me about it is that it didn't need to happen now. He's nowhere near out of steam with what he's already doing, shows/merchandise are selling out (I mean what, 4 t-shirts designed since he became champ?). The biggest issue I have with it is that it looks to me like it's happening to glorify Cena and Rock more.
I'll start with the Rock part because it's quick. He's not full time, he's never there and he gets a main event spot at the second biggest PPV for the title (an angle that can keep Punk in the middle) but it's horse crap to me.
With Cena...they've finally built someone up enough that the emotionally invested fans that will start to hate him will in theory do what? Exactly what WWE wants us to do, cheer for Cena. It's just a sad premise and awful decision in another attempt to get the 18-24 male demographic to stop chanting "Cena sucks". If that's the case...bull crap.
If neither of these are the case, and regardless, either way, I do always look forward to what will come next when it comes to something that I'm invested enough in to take the time to write something about it somewhere. I guess we'll see what happens on Monday.
What bothers me about it is that it didn't need to happen now. He's nowhere near out of steam with what he's already doing, shows/merchandise are selling out (I mean what, 4 t-shirts designed since he became champ?). The biggest issue I have with it is that it looks to me like it's happening to glorify Cena and Rock more.
I'll start with the Rock part because it's quick. He's not full time, he's never there and he gets a main event spot at the second biggest PPV for the title (an angle that can keep Punk in the middle) but it's horse crap to me.
With Cena...they've finally built someone up enough that the emotionally invested fans that will start to hate him will in theory do what? Exactly what WWE wants us to do, cheer for Cena. It's just a sad premise and awful decision in another attempt to get the 18-24 male demographic to stop chanting "Cena sucks". If that's the case...bull crap.
If neither of these are the case, and regardless, either way, I do always look forward to what will come next when it comes to something that I'm invested enough in to take the time to write something about it somewhere. I guess we'll see what happens on Monday.
These are my favorite douche bags, people that think that blasting someone else likes and dislike will make their point make more sense. Yes, I am a ADR fan. Yes, I do realize he lacks a lot of things to get to the main event.
Yep 248+ days and not a single PPV Main event. wow. Also that is more days than Undertaker,Shawn Micheals, Stone Cold, Bret Hart, Triple H and The Rock. So you want people to believe the WWE has more faith in CM punk that the previously stated men. Here is a guy who has more days...Nash and he never got another push since his ONE big run. YokoSuna is another guy that got one long chance..he had it for 280 days. Punk's 1 long runs means nothing.
Ooh the Cover means you won't head to mid card huh....Ask the Miz, Chyna, Bobby Lashley and Rey Mysterio they all were on the cover of a WWE game and they all are NOT in the title picture. Here is one even better. In the Spanish version of WWE 12' the cover star is Sin Cara....and he is doing such great things.
http://www.justpushstart.com/2011/10/new-wwe-12-cover-revealed/
Covers mean you hot at the time. Not to mention the Collector edition of WWE 13 will have the great SCSA on the cover and not the poor man version like CM punk.
This is a strong possibility. However If people listen to anything Punk has ever said ever. They would already know that he dislikes the rock for being a 1/2 asser and taking the spotlight off the people who want to be wrestlers.
I am hoping to see Anyone but The ego (cena) to face Rock at the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania. But honestly I would rather see CM punk beat the rocks ass, the problem is when the belt comes of CM punk so does everything else unless it is played right. which I doubt will happen, the bookers has issues one being talent.
The Dragon Saga
Whale in a Teardrop
That's actually incorrect, he Main Evented Tables, Ladders and Chairs as WWE Champion, defeated Del Rio and The Miz. Match placement means little, what WWE focus on is usually the Main Event, there is more cash in John Cena, hence forth John Cena will Main Event pay-per-views. Only time anybody has an argument that Punk should have been placed in the Main Event match is Money in The Bank due to the attention the angle with Bryan and AJ got, again, match placement is meaningless in the scheme of things.
GrandSword
Burning Hammaaaaah!!!
From what I saw it was a heel turn plain and simple. And to add to this argument think about the occassion. It was Raw 1000 and they wanted to do a big move to end the show. Punk's heel turn was that very thing. His facial features etc. indicated to me that this was now a new incarnation of CM Punk, a serious heel version of his pipe bomb character. Lately he has been making fun of people with a big smile on his face. Now he will be running down people with a scowl and it will be the baby faces he will dropping pipe bombs on.
Yes fans of the guy will want to justify his turn, and it's cool if you still cheer him and everything he says, but it was a heel turn.
Yes fans of the guy will want to justify his turn, and it's cool if you still cheer him and everything he says, but it was a heel turn.
The_Main_Event
Dark Match Jobber
I do think this was a heel turn, but a small part of me fears this is very much like when Cena AA'd Dwayne before WM 27.
Either way WWE have to be be very careful with this heel turn, I don't think he can be the Anti-Hero/Rebel (as much as I'd love to see it) IF the whole aim is to get people on Cena's side.
BUT if this is WWE's way of admitting they screwed his momentum last summer and are willing to give him a longer run as the Anti-Hero/Rebel character I'm all for it, even if he is going to be full fledged heel Monday wasn't a bad way of starting things
Either way WWE have to be be very careful with this heel turn, I don't think he can be the Anti-Hero/Rebel (as much as I'd love to see it) IF the whole aim is to get people on Cena's side.
BUT if this is WWE's way of admitting they screwed his momentum last summer and are willing to give him a longer run as the Anti-Hero/Rebel character I'm all for it, even if he is going to be full fledged heel Monday wasn't a bad way of starting things
It was a heel turn. During the "incident" The King says multiple times, "What is he doing?!" and to top it off he even said, "I think C.M. Punk has turned his back on the WWE Universe." If a heel turn weren't the case, those things wouldn't have been said, it would've been much more ambiguous.
I was so happy watching that unfold on Monday night and they only thing was missing was JR on commentary. I feel like a big reason why this is so confusing is because The King and Cole were slightly off with their timing. When C.M. Punk dove back into the ring Cole was screaming his name and he should've just been silent, but I digress..
As for people saying he's going back down to the mid-card.... Really? I guess many of you don't remember how many heel turns The Rock had in his time and The Rock still moved merch... a lot of merch. To reiterate what's becoming a cliche, a heel turn is just what C.M. Punk's character needed. If I'm right and this is in fact a heel turn, he needs to be careful with what he says and creative needs to be careful with how he's booked because he could start getting the cheers back. I couldn't be happier or more excited to see what happens next Monday.
I was so happy watching that unfold on Monday night and they only thing was missing was JR on commentary. I feel like a big reason why this is so confusing is because The King and Cole were slightly off with their timing. When C.M. Punk dove back into the ring Cole was screaming his name and he should've just been silent, but I digress..
As for people saying he's going back down to the mid-card.... Really? I guess many of you don't remember how many heel turns The Rock had in his time and The Rock still moved merch... a lot of merch. To reiterate what's becoming a cliche, a heel turn is just what C.M. Punk's character needed. If I'm right and this is in fact a heel turn, he needs to be careful with what he says and creative needs to be careful with how he's booked because he could start getting the cheers back. I couldn't be happier or more excited to see what happens next Monday.
Rated R Legend
Dark Match Jobber
i think it was a mistake to turn him at all. i think they turned him too soon for a feud with the rock, theyu could have waited another few months before turning him cause he will probably go through all the top faces before he gets to the rock and after that there will probably be no one left for him. . i mean punk was over big time as a face at the moment they do not have a lot of full time top faces they only have cena,orton,sheamus,mysterio,kane,sin cara and christian. were as the heels now look like this punk,bryan,big show,jericho,ziggler,miz,henry,del rio,rhodes and barrett. they need to turn a few face like jericho,ziggler or miz they are all receivng quite large cheers. i also think that punks heel turn will hurt the likes of rhodes,sandow and barrett(who i dont mind being kept down) by keeping them from receiving good pushes cause they have so many other heels that they are pushing. i mean they are fully behind punk and bryan cause they are the 2 hottest stars at the moment, ziggler just won mitb so they have clearly decided it is time for him to move up the main event, big show is being pushed as a monster at the moment and he and jericho are legends so they will always be kept somewere near the top and they seem to love del rio as judged by his constant presence in the title picture.
Some wrestling fans just cannot make up their minds what they wanna see. Either you want CM Punk as a heel or you don't. Can't have it both ways. I actually think this is the start of something interesting, which hasn't happened since the last Punk controversy. It seems like these days, people are always claiming that champions aren't truly main eventers. They say it about CM Punk[alot] and also about Sheamus. That's laughable because these guys are the closest thing this generation has to actual main event stars. They've actually won matches and are consistently high on the card. What do people expect? Obviously Sheamus or CM Punk's matches won't be main events over The Rock's, Cena's, or Taker's. Or even HHH's. Those guys are considered established main eventers and will always be higher on the card until WWE has faith in guys like Punk or Sheamus.
My favorite anti-Punk comment has to be from Kizzani above. He said that Punk having a long title reign doesn't make him a main eventer.
Someone better tell the WWE that. Because from where I sit, it seems an awful lot like Punk is rapidly becoming the next face of the WWE. He's also the center of what is considered the big summer storyline in the company. He's slated to be the main event of the Royal Rumble[unless WWE changes their plans] against The Rock. It doesn't get any bigger or more main event than that.....
My favorite anti-Punk comment has to be from Kizzani above. He said that Punk having a long title reign doesn't make him a main eventer.
Someone better tell the WWE that. Because from where I sit, it seems an awful lot like Punk is rapidly becoming the next face of the WWE. He's also the center of what is considered the big summer storyline in the company. He's slated to be the main event of the Royal Rumble[unless WWE changes their plans] against The Rock. It doesn't get any bigger or more main event than that.....At first i was a little confused as to why they turned punk heel. However now I understand it. I think that Punk is taking the Stone Cold role where he will act like a heel but he's still going to be a face. We all know the fans will continue to cheer punk. If anything he's a tweener, I don't see him being a full fledged heel.
steven87gill
Pre-Show Stalwart
You really think the hardcore fans are going to start hating on Punk because of that?
Not going to happen, I'm afraid. Punks got a loyal following that'll stick by him even if he called them all worthless scum.
What we're going to end up with here is John Cena, in reverse.
People will boo Punk if he goes up against Rock, but Rock isent a regular
People will not boo Punk against Cena, they have tried it many times and especially at PPVs the fans are too smart, they dont care.
Im sure that Raw in smaller towns with pro Cena crowds will give them the reaction they want, but in NY, Chicago, anywhere in Canada etc they wont get that. People despise Cena, no wrestling angle can change that
People will not boo Punk against Cena, they have tried it many times and especially at PPVs the fans are too smart, they dont care.
Im sure that Raw in smaller towns with pro Cena crowds will give them the reaction they want, but in NY, Chicago, anywhere in Canada etc they wont get that. People despise Cena, no wrestling angle can change that
shooter_mcgavin
Mid-Card Championship Winner
I don't think Punk will be a tweener, though I doubt he's going to be the cowardly heel like he was before his shoot. I think Punk has built his credibility enough during this past year that it would make sense for Punk to be booked as a strong heel like Triple H and Orton were booked as heels.
As for fan reaction, I doubt it's going to change much. Though I guess a few pro-face fans will start booing Punk but, for the most part, the fans of Punk before his current heel turn will stay as Punk supporters. At this era its not the face/heel alignment that will get the crowd to cheer for you, it's about who the fans want to cheer or boo for.
WWE needs to stop turning superstars as faces just because fans start cheering for them, it's just not how it works anymore.
As for fan reaction, I doubt it's going to change much. Though I guess a few pro-face fans will start booing Punk but, for the most part, the fans of Punk before his current heel turn will stay as Punk supporters. At this era its not the face/heel alignment that will get the crowd to cheer for you, it's about who the fans want to cheer or boo for.
WWE needs to stop turning superstars as faces just because fans start cheering for them, it's just not how it works anymore.
Cm punk turning heel again is a nice touch he had more camra time when he is a heel. Plus WWE fans can accept CM punk as a HEEL unlike Cene Punk can be versatial.. No buddy wanted to see to baby face tittle macth and Ziggler isnt ready to hold any belt not as long as he has Vickkie up his ass.. CM punk can do alot with his HEEL turn agian can't wait to see what happens.. Speclly when he took over the Nexxes and then WWE never followed through with it just ended it because the fans were excited to see punk.. I hope the WWE doesnt screw up his HEEL turn make it worth wacthing ...
I'm a big fan of CM Punk and I love his work as a heel, so I'm very excited for all the possibilities with his turn. Tonight is obviously going to be pivotal, as it'll be Punk's first opportunity to address the crowd and explain his motivations for what he did last week -- it'll set the tone for what will most likely be the focal point of WWE programming for some time to come. It'll be interesting to see how much leeway and creative control WWE gives Punk, as the more they let him off the leash (which they don't seem to have any issue doing), the better this angle will turn out to be.
Clearly, I think this is building toward an eventual CM Punk/The Rock match at the Royal Rumble, but we'll be seeing more of this Cena/Show/Punk business for the time being -- a triple threat at SummerSlam seems all but confirmed, at this stage. The most interesting part of Punk's heel turn really has nothing to do with him, though; the Rock/Cena dynamic is going to take on a new direction and it should be fun to see how that turns out. I mean, I'm still expecting Rock/Cena II at WrestleMania 29, but I wouldn't be surprised if Cena took up for Rock while he wasn't around.
Clearly, I think this is building toward an eventual CM Punk/The Rock match at the Royal Rumble, but we'll be seeing more of this Cena/Show/Punk business for the time being -- a triple threat at SummerSlam seems all but confirmed, at this stage. The most interesting part of Punk's heel turn really has nothing to do with him, though; the Rock/Cena dynamic is going to take on a new direction and it should be fun to see how that turns out. I mean, I'm still expecting Rock/Cena II at WrestleMania 29, but I wouldn't be surprised if Cena took up for Rock while he wasn't around.
LoudClearVoice
Mid-Card Championship Winner
A Triple Threat match with Rock as special guest referee is probably what they'll do at Summer Slam. That way they get the star power of Punk and Cena plus they can hype The Rock's appearance even if he's not going to wrestle.
As for the heel turn, it will be really interesting tonight. I'm curious to hear the fan reactions. Is Punk going to get booed right away or are people going to wait to hear what he has to say?
Miro_A12004
Dark Match Winner
The way he was booked tonight was a classic textbook tweener, someone who isn't allied with either the good guys or the bad guys. He was a tweener on commentary, when he showed respect for both competitors but still maintained that he is better than both, he was a tweener in the opening promo and his segment with Cena when he said he doesn't care about who wins tonight. He was a tweener when he attacked the Big Show yet dissed both guys at the end.
I think what they're building is the reverse of John Cena, where they want the adults to cheer for Punk while the children & women to boo him, so that when he faces The Rock at Royal Rumble, he doesn't get all the arena booing him. Think he'll be the tweener for this three way feud and he'll stay like that for a while.
I think what they're building is the reverse of John Cena, where they want the adults to cheer for Punk while the children & women to boo him, so that when he faces The Rock at Royal Rumble, he doesn't get all the arena booing him. Think he'll be the tweener for this three way feud and he'll stay like that for a while.
The_Main_Event
Dark Match Jobber
Well I'm pretty sure he isn't face now. BUT is the guy Heel or Tweener?
He interfered when Cena was about to AA Big Show (heel action), but then he kicked Big Show in the head. (face action)
BUT I will say the whole "respect me" thing at the end screamed heel to me, it's his actions before that, which confuse me.
He interfered when Cena was about to AA Big Show (heel action), but then he kicked Big Show in the head. (face action)
BUT I will say the whole "respect me" thing at the end screamed heel to me, it's his actions before that, which confuse me.
Miro_A12004
Dark Match Winner
Isn't this the tweener role though, he has some face attributes in him as well as some heel attributes but he isn't a full blown face or a full blown heel. A tweener usually has no allies and just cares for himself without actually taking into account who is face & who is heel, he is often portrayed as being morally neutral or ambiguous and will often show some heel & face traits in him. Tonight, Punk did the tweener role to perfection IMO.
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