It's getting to be that time...

[JGlass]

Where we put up the poll for potential WrelteZone Hall of Fame Nominations! KB, Sly, and myself have all be thinking long and hard about who we think deserves nominations, but I think it's safe to say that none of us are 100% on our nominees yet.

This is where you guys come in, over the next couple of weeks we want you to start hardcore campaigning for your guys to get the nominations. There's tons of names that are eligible to be nominated, from Rock to Hart to Gotch to Heenan to McMahon to Michaels to Savage, and that's barely scratching the surface!

I know there are a few names out there already, but now is the time to really push for it. Make campaign HQs to find out how much support you can get for when the poll goes up, and be prepared to debate your asses off!

You can also use this thread to talk directly to the Hall of Fame Committee, which as I said earlier is comprised of KB, Sly, and yours truly. Tell us who you think deserves to be nominated and why they do more than anyone else. Perhaps you can convince us that we should change our nominations.

To give you a jumping off point, right now I'm leaning towards nominating Vince McMahon Jr. Vince elevated professional wrestling from a regional sport to something that was enjoyed all across the country, and eventually the world. Without him, we would not be discussing professional wrestling here on this forum, and therefore has profoundly effected many of our lives more than we may give him credit for.

So as I said, let me know if you agree or disagree with me, and if you disagree, who should I change my nomination to and why? Get ready to put on your typing gloves, because I can assure you debates will begin.

 

[LynchCats]

I love the nomination of Vince McMahon. I have the privilege of being there this coming Saturday for his induction into the Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame, and I agree that without VKM, the professional wrestling, err, sports entertainment industry would not be what it is today. Vince shattered the notion that wrestling was a regional product by ushering in the Rock N Wrestling Era in 1984, bringing over Hulk Hogan from the AWA to win the WWE Title.

Vince showed his ability to adapt to the times in the mid 1990s to face the challenge that WCW set down with the formation of the nWo. Montreal Screwjob aside, the creation of the Mr. McMahon character and his subsequent feud with Stone Cold Steve Austin ushered in the Attitude Era, which brought in top stars such as The Rock, Austin, Kane, and Triple H. Vince adapted again in 2003-2004 as network executives and sponsors started calling for boycotts of the WWE due to their graphic violence and gratuitous sex. He turned the Attitude Era into the PG Era, handing over the reins of the company to the likes of Randy Orton and John Cena.

Vince has grown from the lead commentator and announcer to the most vile heel over the last 15 years, to now getting the respect he is due from the fans. Vince McMahon is definitely deserving of enshrinement in the WZ Hall of Fame.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I have no beef with Vince going in next. He's easily the best wrestling promoter of all time, at the very least he's the most successful and by a large margin. But if it were up to me, the next inductee I would place in the WZF HOF would be Bruno Sammartino.

We seem to be following a trend of inducting performers who were both successful when it comes to wrestling accolades and were also massive draws, both categories which Bruno falls right into. He has held the WWF/E Title longer than anyone combined as well as being the longest reigning WWF/E in a single reign. When you couple that with the fact that he was a major draw (evident by him headlining nearly 200 sell out cards at Madison Square Garden, far more than anyone else) and him being the most popular wrestler of the 60's and 70's, he should definitely be in consideration to be the next inductee.

I'm not going to make some long winded post pointing out every reason why Bruno should be the next inductee because frankly, arguments can be made for several different people over him. But if he isn't the next man inducted, I certainly expect him to be one of the first 10 guys in at the very least.

 

[Sinister Shadows]

I'm going to agree with Bruno Sammartino, he's a 2 time world champion, holding the title for 4040 days (11 years). I think that alone is enough. Added on top of he was definately a draw that could sell out events, he definately belongs in any wrestling hall of fame.

 

[Mac Attack]

Hall of Fame Committee have taken the liberty in creating what I truly belive to be what the first ten poll nominees should be. Hopefully some of my ideas are added to the poll.

In no specific order:


Bruno Sammartino
This guys has the longest world title reign in WWE/F history. He brought the upmost prestige to the World Title and should be considered for the polls. He is truly a legend of wrestling and holding the title for almost 11 years is something that nobody will EVER be able to say again. He had the markability and draw that allowed people to really get interested in wrestling. He truly deserves a spot on the poll because of his wrestling abilities. He is a major name in the World Title history book and should in all honesty be considered for induction.

Bret Hart
He is a true innovator inside the wrestling ring. He is the master of submissions and has made a great name for himself. He is connected tot eh greatest controversy in wrestling history and will always be remembered for what he did for the wrestling company. He is honestly a huge role model for the current up and coming wrestlers and for these reasons deserves a spot ont the poll. He too could sell out an arena and also can perform at the highest level.

Undertaker
Undefeated at Wrestlemania. The greatest gimmick of all time. Just two of the many things Undertaker will be remembered for in his career. He has had an illustrous career and his Streak may be the most valuable thing in wrestling today. He is a living legend and even in his old age still appears for his special match at the grandest stage of them all. He is a person who got people hooked to wrestling and is the first thing that comes into my mind when thinking of wrestling. If any of the current wrestlers make the poll put him on it.

Vince McMahon Jr.
This man lives, breathes, and is wrestling. He has done so much for wrestling and deserves to be remembered for everything he has done. He surely deserves to be remembered in the Wrestlezone Hall of Fame. The amount of time effort and money he has put into the overall image of wrestling needs to, in some way have some sort of rememberance. I think he definetly needs to be nominated for all the sacrifices he has made. They say with sacrifice comes gains and the amount of gain he added to the world of wrestling is enough to get him a nomination.

Bob Backlund
Apart from being a multi time champion this man had huge amont of draw. He is someone that people had to see and is a legend in the wrestling business. He was a very good wrestler and had a good personality. His accomplishments deserve to be remembered because of the impact he had on wrestling. He is a great legend and also someone who people had/have respect for. He was also a pioneer in the wrestling inductry and for that reason deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

Randy Savage
He is one of the greatest all time wrestlers on the microphone in my opinion and also is one of the most creative wrestlers to ever step into the ring. He was wild and entertaining and always was a draw in the wrestling business. He is known for having amazing matches and has always been remembered in a postive way. He was one of those people who could talk the taalk and walk the walk and for that I think a Hall of Fame nomination seems more than likely. Also considering how much success this guy had it also just adds to his Hall of Fame nomination.

Shawn Michaels
Does anyone else recall Wrestlemania XII, or for those who may not no a 60 man Iron Match for the title which was won in overtime against Bret Hart. Possibly one of the greatest Mania moments of all time. Michaels has been billed as knowin the counter to almost every hold and also has always found a way to pleasure us in what he does. He truly is an innovator and a legend and deserves the name of Mr. Wrestlemania. He always had a massiv draw and has climbed the rungs of greatness which is why he should be on the Hall of Fame poll.

Triple H
The man has done it all and is truly a great force in the wrestling world. He is an 8 time WWE champion for a combined total of 539 days. Compare this to somebody like the Rock who has been WWe champion 7 times of just 297 days. Triple H has made himself a household name by being apart of DX and by being a rebel. Apart from this he has always been able to make any audience happy and has always been very good in the ring. He has had one hell of a career and in his prime could beat almost any one of his opponents. He is very good in the ring good on the mic and deserves a Hall of Fame Induction.

Ricky Steamboat
In my opinion is the greatest superstar to never hold the world title. However he will always be remembered as one of the greatest in ring performers as well as somebody who was able to capture audiences of all ages. He may have the greatest match of all time which is a huge accolade in itself. He truly is a very good superstar who people these days look up to. He was able to make himself a huge name without having the World Title which in itself is a great feat. I would expect him to eventually make a poll because of the impact he had on making the midcard titles have more prestige.

The Rock
Not in any way because of the amount of title reigns he has, but more because he maybe the greatest person on the mic ever. He truly can captivate any audience and for that deserves to be considered in the Hall of Fame. He always was a huge draw and had he possibly had a few longer title reigns he could have been an automatic for the Hall of Fame. Personally I believe that he deserves consideration, and for that reason strongly believe him to be on the polls.

 

[The Prodigal Anti-Lemming]

I will examine my pick via my 8-point system in determining ring greats.

Frank Gotch

Drawing Power. Wrestling had already attained the perception of a popular spectator sport during the late-19th century. Gotch appeared during the first decade of the 20th century to cement that status. His series of matches with Tom Jenkins established him as a wrestler the people were willing to see, but his two bouts with George Hackenschmidt put wrestling on the map. 10,000 fans paid to see Gotch take the title from the “Russian Lion” in 1908. The rematch in 1911 attracted a turnout of more than 30,000, the largest paying crowd to have watched a wrestling event at that point in time.

Overall Impact on the Industry. Gotch was wrestling’s biggest name from the moment he won the world title until the day he died. Only the second world heavyweight champion in history, Gotch was the champion of arguably the first wrestling syndicate (a precursor to the modern day wrestling promotion) and held that title for five years spanning from 1908 until his official retirement in 1913. Sportswriters and promoters continued to tout him as the real world champion long after he stopped competing professionally, and from 1914 until 1916, he was swamped with offers to come out of retirement for a big money match. Gotch’s very name was synonymous with professional wrestling.

Mainstream Visibility. In an age before television, radio or the internet, Gotch’s name was known nationally, even internationally. He was the ideal ambassador for wrestling, and on his broad shoulders, wrestling attained a position of glory alongside professional boxing as a legitimate sport, a level of respectability it would never reclaim after his passing. Gotch was personally acquainted with U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt, and while still actively wrestling, he was among the first “great white hope” athletes whom boxing promoters attempted to call upon to rid their sport of heavyweight champion Jack Johnson.

Championship Success. Gotch held the world heavyweight title once for a 5-year span during the tail stages of his career. He also dominated the American Freestyle title (holding the belt three times) at a time when it was the most regularly defended top championship of American mats because the world champion, Hackenschmidt, wrestled primarily in Europe. Gotch was the only wrestler to have carried both titles.

Longevity. Gotch’s pro career endured for a period of fourteen years, a respectable ring tenure for the time when one considers that wrestlers tended to retire earlier than they do now. From the time he first won the American Freestyle title to the night he retired as world champion—a ten year period spanning from 1903 until 1913—Gotch was virtually unchallenged as the top wrestler in the United States.

Caliber of Wins. Gotch’s most notable victory was defeating Hackenschmidt for the world title in 1908 and turning him back in the 1911 rematch. He also defeated Tom Jenkins, the number three ranked wrestler in the U.S. during the period, several times. Other Gotch victories were attained over future 2-time world champion Stanislaus Zbyszko, Benjamin Franklin Roller, Fred Beell, and Charles Olsen, a highly dangerous worker who was responsible for two ring fatalities.

International Dominance. This is one of Gotch’s weaker categories, as he rarely had prolonged stints outside the U.S. However, on the occasion that he did, he dominated. In 1901, Gotch went to the Yukon as a ringer sent by Burns to rip off the local prospectors and came out of it with approximately $30,000 in gold and gold dust. In 1905, he embarked on a tour of eastern Canada in which he defeated Emil Maupas in the final round of a tournament to determine the Canadian Greco Roman champion. In 1909, he completed a successful tour of title defenses in Europe.

Wrestling Ability/Workrate. During the early-1900s, wrestling was a sport first, and although works were becoming increasingly more commonplace, it was important to display the pretense of a shoot to avoid inciting fan riots. Also, most of the top wrestlers of the time needed legitimate credentials to survive, more so because wrestlers were required to defend their honor and standing in backstage private shoots that could get ugly very quickly. Gotch earned his stripes by training under legendary hooker Martin “Farmer” Burns, a dangerous wrestler in his prime. Gotch could work a match authentically but also boasted the ability to defend himself on the mat—an ability he more often used to savage and bully opponents. The Jenkins series were his era’s “five star matches,” while his toehold was the most feared maneuver in wrestling. During his 1908 title win over Hackenschmidt, the defending champion chose to forfeit the title to Gotch rather than risk the debilitating effects of the hold.

I will nominate my alternate pick shortly.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

If I may be critical of your 8 points, don't use "workrate". Judging american wrestlers on workrate is like juding a pitcher on his hitting ability. The amount of action in an american mainstream match isn't as important as the story. Plus "workrate" makes you seem really outdated and overly smarky. You lose credibility using it.

 

[The Prodigal Anti-Lemming]

If I may be critical of your 8 points, don't use "workrate". Judging american wrestlers on workrate is like juding a pitcher on his hitting ability. The amount of action in an american mainstream match isn't as important as the story. Plus "workrate" makes you seem really outdated and overly smarky. You lose credibility using it.

If one is to analyze a given wrestler, than does it not make sense to employ all pertinent categories? Just as drawing power reflects how successful a wrestler was in turning a profit, championship success reflects how accomplished a wrestler was in the ring, and international success reflects a wrestler’s impact in the face of cultural bias, there must also be an individual assessment of a wrestler’s ability to build a convincing match...particularly as the action in the ring is the bread and butter of what professional wrestlers do.

As the exact definition of the term has evolved through the years, rather than become obsolete, it’s far from outdated, and certainly not smarky.

The amount of action in a mainstream wrestling match may not be as important as “the story” to you, however, as it there is a skill to it, it would not make sense to ignore it.

 

[The Prodigal Anti-Lemming]

Ed “the Strangler” Lewis

Drawing Power. Lewis was among the top draws throughout the 1920s. His greatest sustained period as a draw was enjoyed during the years of his second run with the mainstream lineage of the world heavyweight belt which lasted from 1922 until 1925, a time in which he was regularly drawing crowds of 15,000 to 20,000. His greatest achievement as a draw occurred in his bout with NWA World titlist Jim Londos on September 20th, 1934, a bout that attracted 35,265 fans to Chicago’s Comiskey Park. This set an attendance record for a wrestling event that would stand for 27 years.

Overall Impact on the Industry. In his prime, Lewis was the top player of the North American wrestling scene. He played a pivotal role in advancing the early development of Toots Mondt’s “Slam Bang” concept of American wrestling that serves as the framework governing the modern style and is also considered a pioneering heel. Moreover, Lewis’ finishing headlock was among the first ever holds to be applied strictly as a punishing submission hold, rather than a means for attaining a pin.

Mainstream Visibility. Through the capabilities of radio, Lewis attained a national celebrity that outstripped even that of Frank Gotch. He was the biggest name in the sport at the time. His 1922 challenge of professional boxing champion Jack Dempsey gripped the attention of both the sporting world and the mainstream community, and although nothing ultimately came of it, it almost singlehandedly reignited public interest in the wrestler vs boxer genre of works, a match type that would be eagerly sought after by promoters throughout the ‘40s, ‘50s and ‘60s. Lewis also appeared in a number of films as his career was winding down, including pictures such as “Gentlemen Jim” and “The Nasty Nuisance.”

Championship Success. Lewis’ legacy as a champion was untouchable in his era. While his closest rival, Joe Stecher, captured the main lineage of the world title three times, Lewis won the world heavyweight championship three times himself, as well as the New York State Athletic Commission version of the world title once, the Boston AWA World title once and the Olin lineage two times for a recognized seven world championships. His most epic title reign was his 34-month period of dominance lasting from March 1922 until January 1925. To put this acumen into perspective, the record was not matched until Harley Race achieved his seventh NWA title victory in 1983, and was not surpassed until Race beat Flair for his eighth title in ‘84 (which would not be recognized by the NWA until the mid-90s).

Longevity. Lewis formed the template of “the aging legend who refuses to die.” He first main evented in a world title match opposite Stecher in 1915. His first world title win (the aforementioned Olin line) occurred in 1917, followed by his first victory for the mainstream world championship in 1920. The belt he carried was so closely associated with him that it became known among a future generation of historians as “the Lewis belt.” Lewis’ time on top officially ended when he dropped the New York World title to Jim Browning on February 20th, 1933, but Lewis would continue to appear in occasional championship bouts until about 1942. After his retirement, he continued to be a relevant part of the industry through his association with Lou Thesz, whom he managed for the early part of the 1950s.

Caliber of Wins. As any true great, Lewis beat virtually every name grappler of his time period. From Stecher to Londos, to Stanislaus Zbyszko, to John Pesek, Ed Don George, Henri DeGlane, Gus Sonnenberg, Danno O’Mahoney, and Dick Shikat, Lewis defeated them all.

International Dominance. Few American main eventers ventured outside of the U.S. during the first half of the 20th century for anything more than the odd tour. Lewis was no different in this regard, but enjoyed successful stints in England and France. During the mid-30s, he was purported to have been in pursuit of a match with Indian champion The Great Gama, but he pulled out of negotiations when Gama demanded three months to prepare for the encounter.

Wrestling Ability/Workrate. Lewis was among the top hookers of the period, having trained in part under Charles Olsen. He was a defensive master; at his best, there were few other wrestlers who could survive against him in a shoot. His endurance was prodigious, and he could wrestle as long as five hours without losing effectiveness. When he first encountered a young Lou Thesz in a training session, Thesz was becoming big-headed and arrogant because he was a man with an amateur background whom had not yet met his match on the professional level. Lewis stretched him in minutes, humiliating Thesz to such an extent that he thought about quitting; Lewis convinced him to continue his career.

 

[JGlass]

I am going to address my thoughts and feelings regarding the names thrown around in the thread. Keep in mind, even if I don't seem sweet on your pick it by no means they are ruled out of the round.

Hall of Fame Committee have taken the liberty in creating what I truly belive to be what the first ten poll nominees should be. Hopefully some of my ideas are added to the poll.

In no specific order:


Bruno Sammartino

He's in my top five, but I think Vince's impact was a bit larger. Sammartino drew the hell out of New York, and the immigrant fans that paid to see him wrestle LOVED him, but it's up for debate whether he would have drawn in the Mid-Atlantic of Midwest.

Bret Hart

I love Bret Hart, he really helped expand the WWE into Canada, where he is worshiped as a demi-god, but I wouldn't be prepared to give him the spot this early. Even if you take promoters and old school guys out of the equation, Bret Hart didn't impact the industry quite like The Rock or Randy Savage. He lines up even though with guys like Shawn Michaels, Jerry Lawler, and Dusty Rhodes.

Undertaker

A good gimmick will only get you so far. Very fun to watch, never a top draw but consistently one of the best workers in the company. Still, there are many many many more people that deserve to be in the hall before him, especially considering he isn't retired yet.

Vince McMahon Jr.

My pick for now.

Bob Backlund

Bob Backlund was good, but he never had the charisma to make the company break the mold like a Ric Flair or Dusty Rhodes.

Randy Savage

Giving him the spot now would be kind of cheapened by his death, but he certainly deserves a spot. I think he'll be in the top 15 at least, but not top 7.

Shawn Michaels

Another guy that deserves a spot just as much, if not more than any other modern wrestler on this list, but could very well lose out to a promoter or earlier wrestling star that helped build the industry.

Triple H

This would be a sort of controversial pick. I love me some Triple H, but even I have to say there are a lot of people that I would put in above him, including promoters, old school stars early WWF stars, etc.

Ricky Steamboat

He did hold the world title, just not in the WWF. No doubt, he put on one of the best feuds in wrestling history with Ric Flair as well as one of the best matches in wrestling history with Randy Savage. That said, my instincts tell me to put guys like HBK and Bret Hart in over The Dragon, but he definitely makes it in before Triple H, Ted DiBiase, and perhaps even Jerry Lawler.

The Rock

The Rock definitely had a huge impact on wrestling, and he is definitely one of the most unforgettable wrestlers of all time. He's a solid pick for this round, but I'm very strongly leaning towards an old-school guy or a promoter. Why? Personal preference really, and it seems logical to me that you'd want to lay the foundations of the Hall with the undisputed greats as well as the guys that helped build the industry into what it is today to give the Hall of Fame credibility.

I will examine my pick via my 8-point system in determining ring greats.

Frank Gotch

.

He's one of the guys I'm strongly considering. I basically see him as the first wrestling superstar, and his accomplishments and significance to the business can't be denied. If he doesn't make my nomination this round, he'll almost definitely be my nomination for the next, unless I nominate...

Ed “the Strangler” Lewis

It's interesting how little you hear about Ed Lewis in comparison to guys like Thesz, Rogers, and even Gotch, as he really did help promote the industry in ways that both the generation that followed him and the wrestlers today benefit from (the worked angle, for instance). I think maybe I'll make him my nom for next round, as I think it will take a bit of educating the masses of his accomplishments to get him any serious support.

 

[rpsulli85]

I understand that he is still an active wrestler, but I am going to go with Sting as a nomination. He was one of the leaders of a new wave of wrestling that brought us to our current style. He was a champion in NWA, WCW, and TNA (I know, last one shouldn't count but still...) and has brought instantly credibility to any title that he has carried. He also has managed to make a name for himself outside of the universe of the WWF/WWE that few others have managed. What's more, at the age of 52, he puts on better matches than some who half his age and he manages to still tell a convincing story in the ring while those matches are taking place. Finally, his matches against Ric Flair were some of the best of both of their careers, including the main events of both the first and last episodes of WCW Monday Nitro.

 

[JGlass]

Sting is another very good choice, right up there with Hart, Shawn, and even The Rock. Still, the fact he still plays an extremely active role in one of America's top promotions prevents me from nominating him, and as I've said, I'm looking for someone with a greater influence on wrestling than what Sting has done.

 

[Rayne]

Vince. We can worry about everyone else later; without Vince McMahon, wrestling simply wouldn't exist in the format it does today. He was the guy that brought wrestling to mass media.

Until Vince is in this Hall of Fame, it'd be like the Basketball Hall of Fame without James Naismith.

 

[Mac Attack]

Sting is another very good choice, right up there with Hart, Shawn, and even The Rock. Still, the fact he still plays an extremely active role in one of America's top promotions prevents me from nominating him, and as I've said, I'm looking for someone with a greater influence on wrestling than what Sting has done.

Wait, considering that this is a wrestling Hall of Fame shouldn't the inclusion of still active wrestlers be permissable. I mean if this is really an unbiased Hall of Fame then he should be at least considered. Also, considering that Hulk Hogan, who was the first to be inducted in the Hall of Fame, was able to be in it while still building a legacy in TNA then why cannot Sting who is also adding to his legacy.

And here's where I know your answer. You are going to say that Hulk Hogan already has the accomplishments that make his involvment in TNA nulified, however by the same logic you are saying that because Sting is involved in TNA he will not be nominated. Now I understand the impact that Hogan had however if this is truly fair then Sting should get the same oppurtunity that Hogan had. Or are we saying that certain superstars are allowed to have the rules bent in order to get in faster?

Which brings me to my next point. If you are truly saying that because Sting is in a promotion he can't be in the Hall of Fame, then this automatically eliminates anyone who is performing on ANY current roster. However there are guys like John Cena whom have had more title reigns then a few of the already inducted people, more draw then some of the inducted people. If this is truly fair then someone like John Cena should be allowed to be nominated. He is probaly the most talked about star in this decade however he still plays a huge role. So this makes it impossible for him to get in. I could make an argument for Chris Jericho, however because he still is in the company totally eliminates any chance of him being in?

I think if this is truly fair ANY wrestler/influence to wrestling person should be allowed the possibility to enter. Just because they are still currently active does not mean they can't be in it. I think if that stands then not only is there a ton of hypocrisy in this Hall of Fame because of the fact that previously inducted Hall of Fame memebers (Flair, Hogan, Stone Cold) are still in the top promotions.

 

[JGlass]

No... that's not my reasoning for why Hulk Hogan is allowed in the hall and Sting is not... at all. Hulk Hogan doesn't wrestle for TNA, the same way Mick Foley is eligible and Michael P.S. Hayes is eligible: while they do play major roles in their companies, they no longer wrestle on a regular basis. Ric Flair walks a finer line, but he's long past wrestling on a regular basis, so he's allowed in. Sting, on the other hand, is not just a featured player, but the CHAMPION of his company. Surly, you spoke to soon when you compared Hulk Hogan's current career, a guy who spends most of his time on camera at the top of the entrance ramp, to Sting's, the TNA World Heavyweight Champion.

 

[Mac Attack]

No... that's not my reasoning for why Hulk Hogan is allowed in the hall and Sting is not... at all. Hulk Hogan doesn't wrestle for TNA, the same way Mick Foley is eligible and Michael P.S. Hayes is eligible: while they do play major roles in their companies, they no longer wrestle on a regular basis. Ric Flair walks a finer line, but he's long past wrestling on a regular basis, so he's allowed in. Sting, on the other hand, is not just a featured player, but the CHAMPION of his company. Surly, you spoke to soon when you compared Hulk Hogan's current career, a guy who spends most of his time on camera at the top of the entrance ramp, to Sting's, the TNA World Heavyweight Champion.

Ok so maybe I'm wrong but anyone who still currently wrestles cannot be even considered for it? Is that truly fair? In no way am I campaigning for Sting, hate his guts actually however I'm just saying that is not the correct root to go for a WrestleZone Hall of Fame. Or are we like the WWE and taking wrestling out of it?

And I'm may have been confused however this is what I originally read...

the fact he still plays an extremely active role in one of America's top promotions prevents me from nominating him,

I'm sorry however does active truly mean he has to wrestle? Because when reading that the first time I thought that it meant they actually do something every week. Now I'm not the biggest TNA know it all hwoever isn't he in the "relative GM position." Sounds active to me. But I understand he is no champion. But answer this scenario for me.... How about we take this back about one year ago shall we? Bret Hart pins the Miz in a No Disqualification Match for the United States Championship. Now if this was happening about a year ago would we still say that Hart could not be nominated for th Hall of Fame? I would think not.

Surly, you spoke to soon when you compared Hulk Hogan's current career, a guy who spends most of his time on camera at the top of the entrance ramp, to Sting's, the TNA World Heavyweight Champion

I compared thier careers in relation to the term active. However and I truly hope you read this part, I thought the Wrestling Hall of Fame was something that put up people's careers, people's legacy up against each other. Now it is clear that Sting is still building his legacy, but look at it from this perspective. His "legacy" which is still being built as TNA champion is great. And this greatness should be able to have the possibility of being nominated.

 

[JGlass]

Ok so maybe I'm wrong but anyone who still currently wrestles cannot be even considered for it? Is that truly fair? In no way am I campaigning for Sting, hate his guts actually however I'm just saying that is not the correct root to go for a WrestleZone Hall of Fame. Or are we like the WWE and taking wrestling out of it?

Riddle me this, does the MLB induct active players into Cooperstown? When's the last time a great college QB got inducted into the Hall in Canton during his senior year at school? People knew Wayne Gretzkey was the greatest player to ever pick up a stick, but they didn't induct him after he set all the records, they waited until he retired.

Professional wrestling is not like a professional sport, but it is treated as such by those who do it and those who watch it. As such, the Hall of Fame should be treated like the Football Hall of Fame or the Hockey Hall of Fame. Your comparison of this Hall of Fame to the WWE Hall of Fame couldn't be less accurate. Unlike the WWE, we're waiting for careers to finish up. Unlike the WWE, we don't hold any grudges against someone who may have scorned his company or made some bad decisions later in life. Unlike the WWE, we don't hide things that would be considered blemishes against our company like Owen Hart or Chris Benoit. I don't see ANY connection between our HOF and the WWE HOF, other than the fact that they are both wrestling Hall of Fames.

I'm sorry however does active truly mean he has to wrestle?

We're going to try something new here where we answer stupid questions with simple answers.

Answer: Yes.

Because when reading that the first time I thought that it meant they actually do something every week.

No.

Now I'm not the biggest TNA know it all hwoever isn't he in the "relative GM position." Sounds active to me.

I guess Jerry Lawler shouldn't be allowed in either. After all, he did just have that prestigious feud with Michael Cole and he's on live television each week.

To continue with the comparisons to real Hall of Fames, players get inducted all the time after they retire, even if they continue to be involved in the sport. Whether they go onto become commentators (Troy Aikman), get involved in front office work or ownership (Michael Jordan), or start a career as a coach/manager (Yogi Berra), they still got into the Hall of Fame for being players, not for their career after they retired.

Sting has never retired, he is not allowed in. Simple.

But I understand he is no champion. But answer this scenario for me.... How about we take this back about one year ago shall we? Bret Hart pins the Miz in a No Disqualification Match for the United States Championship. Now if this was happening about a year ago would we still say that Hart could not be nominated for th Hall of Fame? I would think not.

Bret Hart would be eligible. He never was, nor would he ever be a regular wrestler in the WWE programing at this point in time. Sting, on the other hand, appears on TNA programming every week, often times wrestling, as he is the TNA World Heavyweight Champion. You can't possibly this stupid.

I compared thier careers in relation to the term active. However and I truly hope you read this part, I thought the Wrestling Hall of Fame was something that put up people's careers, people's legacy up against each other. Now it is clear that Sting is still building his legacy, but look at it from this perspective. His "legacy" which is still being built as TNA champion is great. And this greatness should be able to have the possibility of being nominated.

Refer back to my first response. You don't put active players in the Hall of Fame, that's just not how it's done.

Unlike the WWE Hall of Fame, which has turned into more of a Pop Culture and Wrestling museum than a Hall of Fame, we are trying to make this one as realistic and legit as you possibly can for a sport that has a pre-determined outcome.

 

[Mac Attack]

Riddle me this, does the MLB induct active players into Cooperstown? When's the last time a great college QB got inducted into the Hall in Canton during his senior year at school? People knew Wayne Gretzkey was the greatest player to ever pick up a stick, but they didn't induct him after he set all the records, they waited until he retired


Professional wrestling is not like a professional sport, but it is treated as such by those who do it and those who watch it. As such, the Hall of Fame should be treated like the Football Hall of Fame or the Hockey Hall of Fame. Your comparison of this Hall of Fame to the WWE Hall of Fame couldn't be less accurate. Unlike the WWE, we're waiting for careers to finish up. Unlike the WWE, we don't hold any grudges against someone who may have scorned his company or made some bad decisions later in life. Unlike the WWE, we don't hide things that would be considered blemishes against our company like Owen Hart or Chris Benoit. I don't see ANY connection between our HOF and the WWE HOF, other than the fact that they are both wrestling Hall of Fames.

Firstly I never once have mentioned the WWE Hall of Fame, the point I was making about this being a wrestling Hall of Fame was that a wrestlers career is different from a major sports career in that they can last over 30 years. Some people never feel like stopping. I think it was just unclear as to the actual rules as nowehere is it stated that a current wrestler can't make it. Was it inferred in the below line probaly, however there was some confusion.

we are trying to make it realistic as possible

,
The main problem here was that there was confusion as to the overall running of this. I am sorry for stirring up a debate that wasn't necessary however considering that this was unclear to some people I think it was necessary to go get this covered although it could have been done in an easier way.

 

[Smartie]

Vince McMahon

The guy is the only reason we still have wrestling on prime time.

The problem people have is, they think people like Hogan are the reason wrestling has became famous, but please tell me who is the man in the charge in WWE? That's Vince McMahon.

He asa had his share of flaws, and that's something completely natural. The worst of them screwing Hart, but If it wasn't for him and his vision, this business was down the toilet right now, and Believe me Flair,Hogan,Cornette,Heyman,Bischoff,Russo and people like them have never been and will never be as important and useful to for wrestling. Vince is the guy who has kept this business alive, and that's something that everyone inside wrestling business knows.

What Vince has done is to take this business and keep it alive like day 1. I thank him, and respect the hell out of him, and I hope he remains at top of things in wrestling world for at least another 10-15 years.


So I proudly ask for this:

Vincent Kennedy McMahon for the next Inductee. (Even though he would be first If I was in charge.)

 

[PsychoBlack]

I am going to go with the Steiner Bros as a team. Neither of them had the solo career that deserved induction this early but they could very well be the greatest and most influential tag team of all time. The combination of speed and strength that these two possessed was amazing and for men of their size the work rate was off the chart. The matches that they had were so fast paced yet they were still technical and crisp. We haven't seen a team like the Steiners since them or before them that is why they deserve it.


I have also seen very little to no love shown for Jack Brisco. This man was one of the top 3 NWA Heavyweight Champions of all time and no one here has mentioned his name at all. He was able to draw all over the world and held the NWA title twice in an era where that just didn't happen. His tag team work with his brother was phenomenal as well. He has the resume he has the accolades but for some reason not the fan fare.


My dark horse pick is Brock Lesnar. He always seems to get a lot of hate because of his short stint in the business, however, whether you love him or hate him the guy dominated like nothing we have ever seen before. He came in and won the WWE championship within a year. He feuded with established sure fire hall of famers and dominated them as a rookie. Not to mention him headlining Wrestlemania, defeating the Rock and Hulk Hogan, and being not only a successful monster heel but a great face as well.

 

[JGlass]

I am going to go with the Steiner Bros as a team. Neither of them had the solo career that deserved induction this early but they could very well be the greatest and most influential tag team of all time. The combination of speed and strength that these two possessed was amazing and for men of their size the work rate was off the chart. The matches that they had were so fast paced yet they were still technical and crisp. We haven't seen a team like the Steiners since them or before them that is why they deserve it.

It's way too early to start putting in tag teams, and even so the Steiner bros are no high enough on the list to pass over teams like the Legion of Doom or Fabulous Freebirds.

I have also seen very little to no love shown for Jack Brisco. This man was one of the top 3 NWA Heavyweight Champions of all time and no one here has mentioned his name at all. He was able to draw all over the world and held the NWA title twice in an era where that just didn't happen. His tag team work with his brother was phenomenal as well. He has the resume he has the accolades but for some reason not the fan fare.

Not a bad choice at all, but there are more deserving people. There are wrestlers in more recent years that I feel are more deserving as well as wrestlers from his time period and before that are more deserving.

My dark horse pick is Brock Lesnar. He always seems to get a lot of hate because of his short stint in the business, however, whether you love him or hate him the guy dominated like nothing we have ever seen before. He came in and won the WWE championship within a year. He feuded with established sure fire hall of famers and dominated them as a rookie. Not to mention him headlining Wrestlemania, defeating the Rock and Hulk Hogan, and being not only a successful monster heel but a great face as well.

If Brock deserves to be in this thing (which he doesn't in my opinion), it won't be for years and years. If you think he deserves to be in the HOF before the likes of Shawn Michaels, Rock, Bret Hart, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, or dozens of others, you're high off your ass.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I think that there are only three names that should be in consideration for the next inductee of the Hall Of Fame.

Vince McMahon: The best promoter there is, the best promoter there was and the best promoter there will ever be. If there are fans today all over this world who are able to enjoy wrestling, it is because of Vince. He took a carnival sport and made it into a sucessful weekly episodic TV series. Vince greatest strengths have been his adaptability and his courage. He is not diffident to try out what has been previously unexplored and he has a great sense of knowing what the crowd wants to see at the moment. At the same time, he understands that it is important to build an audience for the future.

He deserves to go in as a promoter alone but it must also be mentioned that Mr McMahon is one of the greatest heels of all time. Without him Stone Cold Steve Austin, Rock and to an extent even Triple H would not have been as successful as they are.

Sting: The best arguement that can be made for Sting is that he succeeded as a drawin two different eras of wrestling in two vry different characters. The "Icon" Sting and the "Crow" Sting are as different as chalk and cheese but Sting made the transformation look completely natural. He is also the best known wrestler never to have worked in the WWE and therefore it could be argued that he would have been even more popular with the WWE promotion machinery behind him. He is also still relevant in the world of pro wrestling today despite being over 50 years of age and still has a dedicated fan base. It's hard to justify his inclusion over that of Vince but not that had to justify his inclusion over anyone else.

Bruno Sammartino: I can understand that in the territory era when wrestling was not broadcasted on TV, it was easier for a guy to remain over for a long time but you have got to be doing something right if you were the most over thing for over 11 years. He faced all the big draws in his time, both faces and heels and managed to maintain his popularity over theirs by the sheer weight of his charisma. By all accounts he was also a legitimate tough guy and would deal with shooters swiftly and decisively in the ring. Very few could upstage him, whether in a real or a fake fight.

Bruno was one of the most popular wrestlers of his era and served as a template for future wrestlers to emulate. He is also perhaps the only wrestler to have been granted an audience with The Pope which just speaks volumes of his popularity.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Right now it's looking like Vince, an old school bloke and someone else. That someone else, could and I think should be unique. What do I mean by unique? It could mean either a manager, a referee, an announcer, or even a female wrestler.

Manager
Bobby Heenan is probably the greatest heel manager of all time and no doubt has a spot waiting for him in the Hall of WZ. The man was unquestionably the most constantly hated man of the 1980's and there's very much a case that could be argued for him. He was Hogan's arch-rival and without him we would maybe have never seen Hulkamania reach that amazing height that it achieved.

Referee
Much like LJL, I feel referees don't receive enough praise for their great work in wrestling. After all, without them, there would be no match. So which referee goes in? Tough one, but Mike Chioda has my full support. Chioda is the WWE's senior referee, and has called matches like Hogan vs. Rock, Michaels vs. Austin and the original Batista vs. Cena. Chioda is the longest serving referee left under the WWE banner.

Announcer
You could go with Gordon Solie, or, alternatively you could go with the man who made so many classic moments in history in Jim Ross. Good Ole' JR has called so many classic moments in the history of wrestling it's insane. The man's catchphrases are known throughout the wrestling world with some possibly even extending past that. Jim Ross is the greatest play-by-play man wrestling has ever seen.

Female Wrestler
The real direction for this would have to be The Fabulous Moolah really. She held the Women's Championship (officially) from 1956 to 1983, just shy of 30 years. She's the titles longest reigning holder in a streak that will never be equalled, and never be broken.