Is There Any TRUE Reason To Dislike John Cena?

[houstorm]

My reply, and I watch Raw as I write this, is that they have to make every storyline about him. CM Punk gives an awesome promo that gets everyone talking, and what do they do the next week; they make the story all about John Cena.

I could give you hundreds of reasons why I can not stand John Cena as a wrestler; but that one has just jumped to the top of the list.

 

[The Heartfix Kid]

Such a strange thing to ask seeing as your feelings on a wrestler aren't right or wrong. They are your feelings and are valid as long as they are based on evidence on screen and not some made up BS (i.e Triple H kicks puppies).

While I don't hate Cena (seeing as I don't know the guy personally), I am not that big of a fan. More so, I don't really care for anything that's overexposed or shoved down my throat to the point where I feel like I'm being told to feel a certain way when I don't. That's how I feel when it comes to Cena. Nothing against him personally.

It also goes to a point I saw somewhere about how the PG era and the pushing of Cena has, in some opinion, taken away a certain segment of the audiences feeling that they had a participatory part in helping to create and maintain stars. I also don't buy that just because it was done with Hogan, it justifies it being done with someone else...I enjoyed the tail end of Hogan's run in the late 80's into the early 90's. But I also loved that the business changed and grew later to a more "sophisticated" direction (for lack of a better description) And yes, I understand he's a big draw and all. The whole thing just rubs me the wrong way I guess.

Last, I think a lot contempt for the guy comes from the fact that he is currently the face of what a lot of older fans feel is wrong with the WWE. I liken it to the situation that the soap General Hospital found itself in until recently. I'm a big daytime soap fan. ABC soaps in particular. For the last decade, the same headwriter at GH kept pushing the same two, three characters in every story line almost everyday. The quality of the show suffered to support this setup. It got to the point where, in many eyes, the characters (and to some extent the actors) came the symbol for all that grew wrong with the show. I don't know if it was fair or not. But I think its what happened with Cena in regards to a certain segment of fans. He represents all that is wrong with the WWE

 

[xTrevor]

I dont ate him i hate his fans. On the 7/4/11 edition of raw at the start of the show when he comes how he starts talking about last weeks CMPunk shoot. He starts talking about how CMPunk was suspended and how he his stripped of his right to face cena at MitB. When Cena says those things the crow cheers like they are happy about punks suspension. Then when Cena says that He disagrees about the punks suspension the crowd cheers and starts chanting First Amendment. Really?

 

[Katherine]

I don't think that there is any true reason to dislike John Cena other then that people don't like a "goody-goody" (not saying I agree with this). His whole persona has become this "never give up and good things will happen to you" and therefore people are finding any excuse to shoot him down. I agree that people are allowed to have their likes and dislikes, however to bash him as a human being is ridiculous even if just for all the work he does with terminally-ill children.

 

[Smint]

Any reason to dislike him? Yes, hes a douche and needs to learn some respect. His cry baby attitude about the rock at raw in australia and taking pot shots at him behind his back. The rock is a legend up there with Hogan, HBK etc and hes coming back to LOSE to cena at WM while big shot cena is talking shit about him. He should be PROMOTING the match (and NO thats not how you should do it) Learn some fkn respect.

 

[The Death Rattle]

I am personally not a fan of John Cena. I understand he is popular, established in his spot on top, and moves tremendous amounts of merchandise. The fact is that someone must assume that role as top guy in a promotion. So I have no ill will towards him, I just wouldn't call myself a fan. My main gripe with him is how he is booked. I just am bored with his overcoming adversity routine. That is a knock on creative, but that's a whole different thread.

 

[TheCrusher]

Cena is the babyface of the era that came after the Attitude Era. There is no escaping the wrath of the people who feel somewhat betrayed by the fact that the raunchier WWE they cared about has gone away. The "Face of the WWE" right now is doomed to get the backlash of the company's change in style.
Cena's position is doubly complicated right now because they feel like they would lose too much by turning him heel or removing him from the spotlight. It's a "darned if you do and darned if you don't" situation.

 

[The Champ]

Most of the reasons for disliking Cena are pretty dumb, to me at least. I don't see any reason not to like a hard ass worker who busts his ass every week for the fans. I also don't understand why wrestling fans are so against liking an upstanding guy who does the right thing all the time. I guess people got spoiled by Stone Cold and Rock, but to me, John Cena is the perfect role model for people of all ages, even if you're just basing it on what he does outside of the ring. Even if you don't like him, I think you have to respect him to some degree; not being able to do that screams bias.

 

[H33LTurn]

Most of the reasons for disliking Cena are pretty dumb, to me at least. I don't see any reason not to like a hard ass worker who busts his ass every week for the fans. I also don't understand why wrestling fans are so against liking an upstanding guy who does the right thing all the time. I guess people got spoiled by Stone Cold and Rock, but to me, John Cena is the perfect role model for people of all ages, even if you're just basing it on what he does outside of the ring. Even if you don't like him, I think you have to respect him to some degree; not being able to do that screams bias.

This is speaking on his character solely, I think Randy Orton proved to us in a radio interview that we dont know the real John Cena....

Some people just arent looking for role models. The everyman is not an upstanding citizen who faces the greatest of odds and deals with them in a mature manner while also always coming out on top. The everyman loses more than he gains, has his major flaws, and doesnt always deal with things the mature way. Thats why guys like Orton and Austin have gotten over with the average "TV" fan (non-smart marks). Children like Cena because most children are taught to be upstanding citizens just like Cena's character. Mix that in with the bright colors and half-ghetto attire that John Cena and you have a very recognizable character for children. They can relate him to superman, Undertaker to some sort of grim reaper, Rey Mysterio to a masked warrior, and Big Show to a giant. Kids like those cartoony characters because they play on the things those kids see on TV. Teenagers and adults are looking for a more relateable superstar, which is why they go with the pissed off beer drinker, the antihero, etc.

 

[The Champ]

Everyone in the wrestling business says Cena is a great guy in real life, I've heard it numerous times, and from fans who have met him too.

I understand wanting to relate to people with flaws, I completely get that. That's why I like the balance of having one good guy face and one antihero face. I enjoy both Cena and Orton because they're different, and because WWE creates two distinct images so that they can appeal to every group of fans. I think Cena can still appeal to adults, though. He can be funny at times and he can show edginess from time to time, as evidenced by his raps and other promos with The Rock. At the same time, though, his value system is something that anyone can use in their lives; maybe some can relate to Orton more, but everyone has the good side to them and Cena exemplifies that. I just don't see why it always has to be a choice between one type of babyface or the other.

 

[H33LTurn]

Everyone in the wrestling business says Cena is a great guy in real life, I've heard it numerous times, and from fans who have met him too.

I understand wanting to relate to people with flaws, I completely get that. That's why I like the balance of having one good guy face and one antihero face. I enjoy both Cena and Orton because they're different, and because WWE creates two distinct images so that they can appeal to every group of fans. I think Cena can still appeal to adults, though. He can be funny at times and he can show edginess from time to time, as evidenced by his raps and other promos with The Rock. At the same time, though, his value system is something that anyone can use in their lives; maybe some can relate to Orton more, but everyone has the good side to them and Cena exemplifies that. I just don't see why it always has to be a choice between one type of babyface or the other.

Well it all comes down to the preference of the fan. I'm just saying from what I've heard other fans say. As far as him being polite, they're supposed to be polite when they meet fans and of course their buddies are going to call him a good guy. I'm sure Orton is nice to fans and the boys, it doesnt mean he didnt take a dump in a divas bag or smoke pot in front of WWE officials. I'm just saying Cena isnt as good as his character is. A lot of people talk about certain superstars like they know them.

 

[Mr. Cash Cow]

I would be suprised if anyone hates the man John Cena. John Cena does bust his ass off and more than likely deserves the position he is in as the top babyface in the WWE. However, there is dislike to the modern John Cena, and that is because of his character.

Honestly, i hate the character John Cena portrays. I much prefer the old John Cena, the rapper John Cena who was won of the best things on Smackdown for quite some time. Older fans liked him because he was funny and edgy. Older fans also liked him then due to him being able to wrestle more, instead of the WWE Making him have the 5 moves of doom.

It seems like when they decided to draft Cena to Raw, they wanted to water down his character, pretty much changing his gimmick with making him stop the rapping. I think the older fans started hating him by about 2006-2007 due to him always winning against the odds, and the fact that he became a childrens character. It's sort of like a big middle finger to the older fans that helped Cena become the babyface he is in the first place.

Of course, i would love a Cena heel turn, but to make him popular with the older fans again, you don't have to turn him heel. You just have to let him wrestle more, stop making him win against the odds all the time, make him more edgy, and stop all the corny crap jokes he is being told to say. If you do those things, i think the older fans will start to like Cena more, whether he stays face or turns heel.

 

[StraightEdgeRevenge]

I never liked him, but i have always respected him. Not to mention he's just a great guy in general. always doin stuff for charity and what not. Hate him for fun, but atleast respect the guy.

 

[conrad405]

the only thing i dislike about cena is hes supercena also when hes champ half of the time hes just boring as hell. i like his mic skills and i dont mind him in the ring. so two things that bug me is supercena and half the time when hes champ hes boring but besides from im sort of a fan of him

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Anyone who says "Cena can't wrestle" is downright ******ed.

First off, most of us on this board don't actually know how to do the moves, so to say he can't as in "he's not technically sound" is dumb to begin with. Like me telling Roy Halladay he's not getting over his front leg enough or something.

Second, what exactly is "wrestling"? Is it doing a bunch of moves? Because that's called gymnastics and would be stupid. Wrestling is performing a simulated fight or feud to get a reaction. The reaction is the goal, which he gets. If I hear a single "well he gets boos" I will shoot you in the face. He WANTS the smarks to boo him. It's pretty obvious to about 90% of people. Smarks like to boo him. He likes for them to boo him. They don't buy his merch, they pirate PPVs, and they wouldn't make as much noise if he were catered to them because he's to muscular for them to like.

Third, even if being able to do "technical" moves like chain wrestling does make you a good wrestler, which it doesn't, it'd be stupid to have a street fighting everyman with a huge heart gimmick doing chain wrestling. He did use chain wrestling in OVW, he did use it against Kurt Angle in 2002, and he did use it on Raw. He CAN, he just doesn't.

There is NO true reason to dislike Cena other than a personal dislike for no rational reason. Maybe because he's on top too much and you don't like that. However, be an intelligent human being and think for a second. WWE NEEDS a "guy". A top guy. It's always been that way. That guy NEEDS to be a babyface, good looking, and a decent human being who is willing to do whatever it takes to fullfil his role. That pretty much shortens the list to Cena. Batista could have worked, didn't. Orton may be able to work but won't because he doesn't get over like Cena.

Bottom line is that Cena is one of the top 5 most talented guys in the world at what he does. The job of a pro wrestler is to be safe and to make the company money. The ONLY way we as non wrestlers (even some of you who may be wrestlers but were trained at Uncle Ted's Rasslin Factury) can judge a guy on his technique is to look and see if he injures guys. If he doesn't, he's probably doing it right. Cena doesn't injure guys. Course you may say that he doesn't do that many moves (which I already touched on the ******ation of that statement), however, neither did Bret Hart. Part of being a good wrestler is staying within your realm and not overreaching it. If you're blown up, don't go for a bunch of highspots and break your or someone else's neck.

As for the second part of drawing. Cena does this. There is no denying it. So that means he knows how to work his audience. It means he's good at what he does.

Conclusion: Cena is safe and draws. He's a great pro wrestler. You can hate him because maybe you're one of the few who legitimately don't like his character. However, if you watch his segments and boo him at live shows, you probably don't actually hate his character, you love to hate it.

If people hated his character so much, they wouldn't make any noise. That's the real way to let Vince know you don't like something. Then again, as super smart wrestling fans I'm sure you know that and don't chant "you can't wrestle" or "Cena Sucks" at live shows, which fuels the fire.

 

[ACL]

I don't dislike cena, he has done a lot for the WWE, infact has probably made it more successful in the past 5 years than anyone else, in the ring he is a sound wrestler, I am not taking that away from him, however..his matches are all the same to me now. There are 2 styles to his matches I see.

1. He gets destroyed in the first part, makes a short sweet comeback, gets destroyed again and then OUT OF NOWHERE picks up a submission or an AA.

2. He'll be getting beat, then he'll turn it quickly around and use 3/4 moves and match over.

Don't get me wrong..I don't hate cena. I may be just bored of him nowadays :/

 

[TheKingHustla]

I think the problem many people have with Cena is the same things that have been said by guys like Miz, Booker T, Dwayne and Punk.

The fact that the WWE treats him like he is the best to ever walk on the face of any planet in known existence. Punk said something like that and thats the reason. He gets more exposure and more success than any other superstar, and is essentially "untouchable" in the WWE.

Miz commented a while back about the whole SuperCena aspect, and thats another reason. Look at any of Cena's wins, especially at big events. He gets beaten, then all of a sudden, Goku throws him a Sensu bean, he gets up, does his five moves (which I atually dont have a problem with because most stars have that) and wins.

Booker T (forgive me if it was another commentator, I can't remember) stated something towards the lines that he was surprised at how successful Cena was with his limited skills. The biggest thing is, when I think about Cena, I can't think about what he excels at other than selling merch. All of the conversations about his strength and his endurance or whatever is flawed because it's a worked program. Who knows if Cena could really do that stuff. Things like that can't be measured by the WWE. Things like actual wrestling skills can. And I don't see that in Cena.

Also, something that I've noticed, sometimes it seems too forced. Like Rocky said on his latest shoot on Cena, we can sense bullshit, and the more I pay attention to Cena, the more most of it seems too forced. Like whenever he try to kiss the fans ass by saying stuff like "These are not little jimmies, they are the greatest fans in the world". Really? you gotta try to kiss our asses that bad? Why couldn't you just say "these are not little jimmies" and left it as that. And now he "hates" Vince mcmahon and wants to walk out and all of that bull. Come on, we all know you not going any damn where. stop jerking us around, that job is only reserved for the divas.

I don't know. The more of Cena I see, the less I actually like him. Before, I didn't really care less about him either way, just observed. but more and more, especially after the Truth fued, I've noticed that I don't believe him anymore. He cares for the business, of course, and I know that, but the way he goes by it is bad. It's like the guy who wants a hot chick, and he tries so damn hard that he actually pisses her off just when she was gonna give him some.

 

[asas96]

So ignorant! John Cena CAN wrestle, watch some of his older stuff, I mean OVW in 2000 and his first matches in the WWE in 2002 and 2003. The company saw a star in Cena, and they need to hold him as the face for awhile, they need him to stay healthy. Performing tons of moves and most that are risky is very dangerous to the company, Vince is all about mainstream, and John Cena is a household name, just like Hulk Hogan, Cena is more of a household name then SCSA or the Rock were, none of my friends have ever watched wrestling, but they know who Hogan and Cena are. VKM wants Cena to protect his body, and most importantly, protect the company, saying "he can't wrestle" is such an ignorant thing to say.

 

[TheKingHustla]

asas96, Really? Really? Really? Really?

John Cena can wrestle in your honest opinion? John Cena can brawl. He can play football. He can't wrestle. He can compete in the WWE because of his brawling and his football moments. He can't compete in a wrestling match. Look at when Cena tried to "wrestle" in his match against Nexus after Punk said he was the best wrestler in the world. Would you honestly want to watch him do that every week? And his first couple of matches, like when he "out wrestled" wrestlers like Kurt Angle? The was football moves. tackles and spine busters. You honestly believe that he could hang with the likes of Kurt Angle in his prime, in a wrestling match? And you say Cena is a bigger name than those guys, but that doesn't make him a good wrestler. That just shows that the WWE pushes him more than anyone else in history. And you're friends must be young. Because if they know Hogan and Cena, Hogan from his tv show, and Cena now, then they have to be young.

 

[cubuff37]

I don't like Cena because he's extremely OP'd and sends a bad message to kids because of that.

Cena overcomes the odds everytime. No matter if hes defending a WWE title against 5 other guys or taking on Nexus all alone. He tries to send a message to the kids saying, "never quit", "show respect", "never back down". Which I'm ok with that. But the guy never ends up with the short end of the bone. He teaches these kids how to win, but he has never taught a lesson on how to lose. Granted he doesn't win EVERY match but when the dust settles, hes always the man standing tall. Thats why hes called SuperCena.

 

[ralphie9181]

The main reason to dislike John Cena was shown plain as day in his I quit match with Miz. You cannot get destroyed, and I mean DESTROYED by two men for almost 25 minutes, and the all the sudden come back and win in 30 seconds. Human beings cannot take a Rodney King beating and then triumph in the end. It was like watching a cartoon. Wrestling is fake and that's cool and all, but it shouldn't be so fake as to defy the laws of human anatomy. It was one of the most infuriating things I have ever seen.

 

[Trill Co$by]

I don't like Cena because he's extremely OP'd and sends a bad message to kids because of that.

Cena overcomes the odds everytime. No matter if hes defending a WWE title against 5 other guys or taking on Nexus all alone. He tries to send a message to the kids saying, "never quit", "show respect", "never back down". Which I'm ok with that. But the guy never ends up with the short end of the bone. He teaches these kids how to win, but he has never taught a lesson on how to lose. Granted he doesn't win EVERY match but when the dust settles, hes always the man standing tall. Thats why hes called SuperCena.

So you hate him because he does the same that got Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, and Bret Hart over as faces yet when those same legends return you jump up and down like a little school girl getting her first kiss? Yeah, hypocrisy isn't your best color.

There really isn't any true reason to hate Cena. Sure he's used a lot in modern era, but then again, so was The Rock in the Attitude Era. In fact, the whole Attitude Era was over used... WCW was better. But that's another topic for another time...

Cena is the man who stands for what the WWE's targeted audience is, and therefore that's why he's always in the main events. If people say he's never giving people spotlight, then I suggest they go back and watch 2010 because Cena had been away from the title for a very long time. In fact, the only relevance he had to the title in 2010 was when he was feuding with Batista.

Honestly, the reason I originally had for hating Cena is quite redundant. When I hated him, it was because he was a guy who was too green and pushed to the wwe title too fast. But now, he's where he belongs and I find no reason to hate him. I mean sure, I'm not a fan of his (well not a big one) but the guy fits where he's at.

 

[CelticCorey]

I've been wondering exactly why there seems to be a double standard with Cena and the rest of the people on the roster.

If the claim is that Wrestler X sucks in the ring- it's his fault. And maybe in some cases it is their fault.

If the claim is that CENA sucks in the ring- it's that he is limited and is a Superman character and that's how he is booked.

Maybe if WWE gave the wrestlers more freedom on what to use with their moves, we might see good matches out of Alex Riley and Wade Barrett.

If it's the claim that might attack Cena for mic skills, I will say, his promos can sound forced but people don't find fault in that.

What it is fault of is somebody else. It's John Morrison's fault for not being good on the mic. There are guys who can be good on the mic if given the opportunity to shine. Kofi Kingston got promo time on RAW and I'll be damned if that wasn't a good promo by somebody who gets little to no mic time and has a reputation for not being that good.

If Cena portrays the silly Cena who cracks lame ass jokes people may blast him for it but they still expect him to main event and all because he is the top guy.

But heaven forbid John Morrison smile like that one time he did on the titantron. Zack Ryder sure as hell cannot do the Woo Woo Woo thing AT ALL!!! I mean guys Cena is huge but have you seen Ryder's arms? I may be in the minority here but if going by his build alone he could be a believable champion.

But the point is- people take Cena despite smiling and cracking jokes. If anybody else does it, they are denounced. Big time.

When Cena does something good, I will credit him for it. I credit both Punk and Cena for putting on a terrific match last night as both held their own quite well.

I liked Cena's promo where he talked about the Montreal Screwjob and the TNA reference. That was good.

But I just cannot understand the contradiction between Cena and everybody else and I am hoping somebody explains this to me.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I've been wondering exactly why there seems to be a double standard with Cena and the rest of the people on the roster.

If the claim is that Wrestler X sucks in the ring- it's his fault. And maybe in some cases it is their fault.

If the claim is that CENA sucks in the ring- it's that he is limited and is a Superman character and that's how he is booked.

Maybe if WWE gave the wrestlers more freedom on what to use with their moves, we might see good matches out of Alex Riley and Wade Barrett.

If it's the claim that might attack Cena for mic skills, I will say, his promos can sound forced but people don't find fault in that.

What it is fault of is somebody else. It's John Morrison's fault for not being good on the mic. There are guys who can be good on the mic if given the opportunity to shine. Kofi Kingston got promo time on RAW and I'll be damned if that wasn't a good promo by somebody who gets little to no mic time and has a reputation for not being that good.

If Cena portrays the silly Cena who cracks lame ass jokes people may blast him for it but they still expect him to main event and all because he is the top guy.

But heaven forbid John Morrison smile like that one time he did on the titantron. Zack Ryder sure as hell cannot do the Woo Woo Woo thing AT ALL!!! I mean guys Cena is huge but have you seen Ryder's arms? I may be in the minority here but if going by his build alone he could be a believable champion.

But the point is- people take Cena despite smiling and cracking jokes. If anybody else does it, they are denounced. Big time.

When Cena does something good, I will credit him for it. I credit both Punk and Cena for putting on a terrific match last night as both held their own quite well.

I liked Cena's promo where he talked about the Montreal Screwjob and the TNA reference. That was good.

But I just cannot understand the contradiction between Cena and everybody else and I am hoping somebody explains this to me.

uhh, not that was NOT a good promo by Kofi. The words were good (likely the writer) but his delivery was awful. Looking at Josh, lookng at the ground in front of the camera, looking at josh, looking at the ground. If you don't look into the camera, it doesn't convey confidence, it makes you look nervous and makes your words seem less meaningful. With work he'll be good, the voice was good and the words, but the delivery sucked.

I don't think cena is limited by the office in the ring. I think he's smart enough to realize that chain wrestling and doing fancy moves on a nightly basis is downright stupid given his character. Anyone who thinks a bunch of fancy moves=great match needs to ask themselves. Which is more timeless? The Dragon Gate 6-man in ROH 2006 or Flair/Steamboat? The answer is Flair/Steamboat. Which was almost non-stop fancy flipity moves and which told a story that got people emotionally involved? Flair/Steamboat.

Contradiction between Cena and everyone else? What do you mean? the fact that cena puts on better matches than most the roster, matches people actually give a shit about even though he doesn't do the flipity bullshit? that contradiction? The fact that Cena can do a cheesey promo that has kids eating out of his fruity pebbles bowl one minute and do a serious, intelligent promo (all the ones against Rock, Punk, and Vince) the next?

People just need to admit it that even though it's not cool to like John Cena, he's pretty fuckin awesome. He puts on great matches of all types (hardcore vs JBL and Umaga, straight up wrestling vs Angle, HBK, and Jericho, superstar clash of the titans vs Batista, and a war of ideologies vs Punk) and is versitile on promos too.

Just admit it, the reason people want Cena to turn heel is so it'll be cool to like him. Because there are facts that lead to 2 conclusions.

The fact is he sells the most merch, sells the most tickets, likely gets the highest quarter hour ratings for his segments, and gets the loudest reactions (boo or cheer doesn't matter, just loudness).

Now this means either that 1) people love this guy and the people who boo him love to boo him OR 2) the people that boo him actually are sick of him, but there really aren't that many of them to actually matter or else it'd hurt the bottom line.

Either way Cena is either liked by enough people that it more than outweighs the people who don't, or the people who say they don't like him just love to hate him.

I think that Cena is the anti hero of this (the anti hero) generation. In a generation where all heroes are good guys but with a rough side or with a little bit of a drinking problem, or a womanizer, or someone who cusses and maybe gets a little too violent. Cena doesn't do any of that. Usually it isn't geniune when a guy is a goody two-shoes. However, with Cena you believe it. Which makes people love to hate or love to love him even more.

 

[CelticCorey]

Ok, I will have to watch the promo again. I liked that promo and the delivery.

And I am not saying Cena has to do a bunch of high flying moves but I think you can have a lot of them to have a great match. It just gets old whenever I see the shoulder block twice, backdrop, five knuckle shuffle, someone gets out of the FU and sometimes STF.

Cena does put on good matches but there are guys I would much rather see. The contradiction I am talking about is that if people say Cena sucks in the ring, people defend it by saying that he's limited. If somebody ELSE is bad in the ring, it seems to be THEIR fault. That's what I am getting here with what I have read with the IWC.

The promos- again. He can cut lame promos but some have defended saying he is watered down because he is PG. Whenever somebody else cuts a bad promo, it's their fault.

John Cena the guy seems awesome but most of the time the John Cena I see on TV is NOT AWESOME. I don't hate on him because it is cool to. I just don't like what I see 95% of the time from the guy.

And if John Cena turns heel, maybe I'll like him. Maybe I won't. He doesn't necessarily have to turn heel. I just wish he would evolve his character a tad bit more.