Is CM Punk too small?

[It's...Baylariat!]

The primary reason for Carlito mentioning size is because he's trying to become what's called a 'body guy'. That means he's seeking a better physique and he looks quite different than he did in the WWE. What's also funny is this seems to be more of a rib than anything because Carlito's still undersized for wrestling as much as anyone else is. I know he mentioned the Shield's Ambrose and Rollins and we're talking about CM Punk, which is absurd as he's as tall as Jericho and weighs more than quite a bit of the WWE roster.

He's not a small guy by any means. Rey Mysterio's small. Chris Jericho's short. And those two had stellar careers and overcame their size. Punk has and will continue to do the same.

 

[One to Remember]

The primary reason for Carlito mentioning size is because he's trying to become what's called a 'body guy'. That means he's seeking a better physique and he looks quite different than he did in the WWE. What's also funny is this seems to be more of a rib than anything because Carlito's still undersized for wrestling as much as anyone else is. I know he mentioned the Shield's Ambrose and Rollins and we're talking about CM Punk, which is absurd as he's as tall as Jericho and weighs more than quite a bit of the WWE roster.

He's not a small guy by any means. Rey Mysterio's small. Chris Jericho's short. And those two had stellar careers and overcame their size. Punk has and will continue to do the same.

Rey Mysterio began to overcome his size in WCW, in WWE he sold masks and appealed to the little esses for no legit reason other then his tan..

how is he undersized for wrestling and how are a lot of other people? What division would you put him in and is he just barely making weight or is he well past the divisional start point? I've not seen him in awhile to even know.


He's not in WWE because he wanted to do him off hours, its not like he was released for not bringing shit to the table. Him ranting at the mic about people not liking Cena showed how good of a talker is when hes just being real. He also made. He also brought out some edge and realness in Cena because it seemed like he was legitimately mad and they were both alluding to a real locker room conflict which was good.

 

[MisterRob]

when was CM Punk world champion seven times? lol, you really need to get your facts straight.

You need to get your facts straight. How much more of an idiot can you make YOURSELF look? lol CM Punk has held the World Heavyweight championship in WWE three times, the WWE Championship twice, the Ring of Honor World championship once, and the ECW championship once. All of these are or were "World" championships, and there's no arguing that.

That makes seven, fool.

he is only one of the top stars in the company because the roster is thin as fuck right now. if it was 6 years ago, he would be in the mid card. the difference between cm punk and other small people (shawn michaels, jericho, eddie guerrero, chris benoit) is that they all had a shitload of muscles in their prime. when you look at cm punk you immediately think that he doesnt lift, lol. i cant even think of one other main eventer that has a worse physique than punk.. and rey mysterio or daniel bryan or rvd dont count becaues they were transitional champions.



Again, every one of those people had more muscle definition than cm punk. chris jericho and michaels also did when they were in their primes. only rey mysterio and daniel bryan have a worse physique than cm punk, and they were never at a level like randy orton or cm punk or even sheamus.

So, what you're saying is, because CM Punk lives a straight edge life style and isn't on steriods with more muscle definition and mass (like others before him who were the same size), he isn't a legit main event star or World champion? Great logic there, fool. He has a natural physique.

In the end, is physique doesn't matter at all, because he IS one of the top stars in WWE. He IS a multiple time World champion and cemented in the main event scene. He IS a star, and he's gained that level and the WWE is behind him confidently in that role. So since THEY don't have an issue with his size, and it's certainly not holding him back.. and since the AUDIENCE (millions and millions of fans) believes he's a credible star in that role at his size, your opinion is both voided and insignificant.

Thank you!

 

[One to Remember]

Mister Rob he isn't too much of a star if he wasn't allowed to defeat Taker even though Taker already had 20 and he was forced to drop his WWE title to a part timer. His reign was like 438 days yet it seems identical to Ivan Koloff being WWWF champion for TWENTY ONE days.. It seems like CM Punk was used as a transitional champion to avoid the Rock taking Cena's WWE title in the same way Koloff served as a buffer between Sammartino and Morales or Iron Sheik served as a buffer between Bob Backlund and Hulk Hogan. So now CM Punk withen one match had himself reduced to being another Stan "the man" Stasiak and his lengthy reign reduced to being as transitional as Sheik's, Stasiak's, or Koloff's.. You can be in aww of his witty remarks all you want but that hurt is credibility on several fronts.. As a man, not even as a performer or worker he should be feeling the effects of it personally. The brass undermined him..

 

[CmPunker]

You need to get your facts straight. How much more of an idiot can you make YOURSELF look? lol CM Punk has held the World Heavyweight championship in WWE three times, the WWE Championship twice, the Ring of Honor World championship once, and the ECW championship once. All of these are or were "World" championships, and there's no arguing that.

That makes seven, fool.



So, what you're saying is, because CM Punk lives a straight edge life style and isn't on steriods with more muscle definition and mass (like others before him who were the same size), he isn't a legit main event star or World champion? Great logic there, fool. He has a natural physique.

In the end, is physique doesn't matter at all, because he IS one of the top stars in WWE. He IS a multiple time World champion and cemented in the main event scene. He IS a star, and he's gained that level and the WWE is behind him confidently in that role. So since THEY don't have an issue with his size, and it's certainly not holding him back.. and since the AUDIENCE (millions and millions of fans) believes he's a credible star in that role at his size, your opinion is both voided and insignificant.

Thank you!

lol.. roh titles dont count.. its WWE. fool.. also ecw doesn't count. If it did.u would be calling ezekiek Jackson a world champ.. even chavo guerrero, the ecw champ, was entering the royal rumble, proving that the ecw is not a world.title...

Explain to me why punk fought smaller guys as a face, and needed weapons or help to defeat kane and mark henry, but he turned heel.and fought.bigger men, fool. He also would not be credible against Brock. U really make a fool of yourself lol. Lol natural physique, seriously.? That how u.defend him... U r saying hornswoggle physique is good, right?

 

[MisterRob]

Mister Rob he isn't too much of a star if he wasn't allowed to defeat Taker even though Taker already had 20 and he was forced to drop his WWE title to a part timer. His reign was like 438 days yet it seems identical to Ivan Koloff being WWWF champion for TWENTY ONE days.. It seems like CM Punk was used as a transitional champion to avoid the Rock taking Cena's WWE title in the same way Koloff served as a buffer between Sammartino and Morales or Iron Sheik served as a buffer between Bob Backlund and Hulk Hogan. So now CM Punk withen one match had himself reduced to being another Stan "the man" Stasiak and his lengthy reign reduced to being as transitional as Sheik's, Stasiak's, or Koloff's.. You can be in aww of his witty remarks all you want but that hurt is credibility on several fronts.. As a man, not even as a performer or worker he should be feeling the effects of it personally. The brass undermined him..

What does any of this have to do with him being or not being too small?
Keep on rambling off topic!

lol.. roh titles dont count.. its WWE. fool.. also ecw doesn't count. If it did.u would be calling ezekiek Jackson a world champ.. even chavo guerrero, the ecw champ, was entering the royal rumble, proving that the ecw is not a world.title...

Of course the ROH World championship counts. It's a world title, and in his wrestling career he's held it. Of course the ECW WORLD championship counts, because it was viewed as a world title at the time and he HELD it. And that's the same reason that Ezekial Jackson and Chavo Guerrero are viewed, and labeled, as ONE time WORLD champions. Whether you think that way or not, your opinion matters little to wrestling history, and CM Punk being a seven time world champion in his career is FACT.

Explain to me why punk fought smaller guys as a face, and needed weapons or help to defeat kane and mark henry, but he turned heel.and fought.bigger men, fool. He also would not be credible against Brock. U really make a fool of yourself lol. Lol natural physique, seriously.? That how u.defend him... U r saying hornswoggle physique is good, right?

This paragraph doesn't really make any sense, fool. Why are you asking ME why as a face he wrestled smaller guys and needed weapons, and as a heel he didn't. I didn't make those decisions, if they are even true. I'm not on the creative team in WWE.

And since when is Hornswoggle a World champion or a main event star?


All that matters is this, and I repeat for you, fool:

In the end, his physique doesn't matter at all, because he IS one of the top stars in WWE. He IS a multiple time World champion and cemented in the main event scene. He IS a star, and he's gained that level and the WWE is behind him confidently in that role. So since THEY don't have an issue with his size, and it's certainly not holding him back.. and since the AUDIENCE (millions and millions of fans) believes he's a credible star in that role at his size, your opinion is both voided and insignificant.

 

[One to Remember]

What does any of this have to do with him being or not being too small?
Keep on rambling off topic!

how dare you accuse me of rambling with your drive by posts. Maybe if he was bigger he would have had the leverage as a guy who can actually look like the face of acompany to prevent WWE from doing those things? Maybe if he was bigger it just wouldn't had been reasonable to have him lose to the aging Undertaker? And don't bring up past big guys Taker fought 'cause he was in his prime then..

Of course my post was more a response to your statement that he was a star period but its all connected some how.

 

[One to Remember]

In the end, his physique doesn't matter at all, because he IS one of the top stars in WWE. He IS a multiple time World champion and cemented in the main event scene. He IS a star, and he's gained that level and the WWE is behind him confidently in that role. So since THEY don't have an issue with his size, and it's certainly not holding him back.. and since the AUDIENCE (millions and millions of fans) believes he's a credible star in that role at his size, your opinion is both voided and insignificant.

that sentiment right there bozo was why I went into comparing him to Stasiak and Sheik, because he wasn't put on equal footing with the Rock and Cena, Rock is Bruno, Cena is Pedro, and the guy who has to prevent them from crossing paths to not tarnish either is CM Punk who is Koloff. The brass cut him down to size in front of your eyes u dumb kid. I say this shit and i fucking like him to death but you gotta call a spade a spade sometimes.

 

[CmPunker]

What does any of this have to do with him being or not being too small?
Keep on rambling off topic!





Of course the ROH World championship counts. It's a world title, and in his wrestling career he's held it. Of course the ECW WORLD championship counts, because it was viewed as a world title at the time and he HELD it. And that's the same reason that Ezekial Jackson and Chavo Guerrero are viewed, and labeled, as ONE time WORLD champions. Whether you think that way or not, your opinion matters little to wrestling history, and CM Punk being a seven time world champion in his career is FACT.



This paragraph doesn't really make any sense, fool. Why are you asking ME why as a face he wrestled smaller guys and needed weapons, and as a heel he didn't. I didn't make those decisions, if they are even true. I'm not on the creative team in WWE.

And since when is Hornswoggle a World champion or a main event star?


All that matters is this, and I repeat for you, fool:

In the end, his physique doesn't matter at all, because he IS one of the top stars in WWE. He IS a multiple time World champion and cemented in the main event scene. He IS a star, and he's gained that level and the WWE is behind him confidently in that role. So since THEY don't have an issue with his size, and it's certainly not holding him back.. and since the AUDIENCE (millions and millions of fans) believes he's a credible star in that role at his size, your opinion is both voided and insignificant.

You are absolutely idiotic and ignorant if you believe that ECW Champinoship counts.. because most likely WWe doesn't consider it as a world championship.. look now, they keep on calling christian a TWO time world champion.. he has won the world heavyweight championship twice and the ewcw championship once.. if they DID count ECW as a world championship, they would cal him a THREE time world champino.. please dont talk shit to me when u clearly dont pay attention to this shit like i do. and if they counted indie championships as world championships, they would be calling him a 5 time world champion, which is quite stupid.. johnny nitro was never considered a world champion. same for matt hardy.. lol. u are absolutely ignorant.. YOU may consider punk a 7 time world champion, but the wwe doesnt.. they dont count indie or ecw championships as world titles.

because its a fucking rhetorical question? can u not use common sense.. the wwe does not have as much faith as u think they have in him.. as a face, he fought people close to his weight range because the WWE BELIEVED that he couldnt beat bigger people CLEAN... yes, i acknowledge that he faced kane and mark henry and kevin nash during his reign, but he needed AJ's help to beat kane, needed weapons against henry, and nash destroyed him every time they met.. but as he turned HEEL, he fought bigger men, like sheamus, ryback, big show.. but he didnt win clean against them. because the wwe doesnt believe they can beat him clean.. i even remember a dirtsheet about the wwe concerned with cm punk's size if they chose him to fight lesnar. and yeah, the audience believed him as a legitimate threat when he was a face when he was fighting people close to his weight range, but now as a heel, how can they believe he is a legit threat? the wwe turned his gimmick into a chickenshit, whiny gimmick like they did to many other heels.. he cheated on every match against ryback, sheamus, and john cena.. how the fuck does the audience still view him as credible? yes, he fought the rock and the undertaker, but he lost. i know he gave a good effort, but do u really thinks casuals will count how many finishers he kicked out of? the casuals care about the outcome of the match and how they won (clean, dirty, interference).. thats all that matters to them.

in addition, half of cm punk's title reign was overshadowed by john cena. john cna main evented over him, thus overshadowing him. the only way he could main event was WITH john cena, with a huge star (the rock) or if john cena was injured (at hell in a cell)..

Yes, i know he had a 434 day reign, but fighting the rock played a big role in that. they basically made cm punk a really long transitional champion to make john cena look good. if he hadn't fought the rock, cm punk wouldnt have lasted that long.

i was talking about hornswoggle because u defended cm punk's physique, claiming he doent use steroids.. you know its possible to build a decent amount of muscle mass WITHOUT drugs? do you understand that or are you too ignorant fool?

he is a top star in the company, but that is only because the roster is very thin.. if it was in 2008 he wouldnt be in this position.

and you really cant deny the fact that an extra 20 pounds would give the WWE so much more faith in him.. you cant deny the helpfulness of it man. it would change everything.

 

[BillAlfonso]

everytime something gets to ridiculous or unreasonable or illogical in wrestling there is this group of people that just start shouting at the top of their lungs about how its not a real sport anyway and how we should come to terms with that then rethink our questions or some bs about how none of that matters when your hearts raising and your caught up in the moment and how how you forget everything else in that moment. I mean put that in a hallmark. That group right there is the same group of people who also go out of their way to say wrestling is staged or talk nonchalant about the inner workings in some attempt to quickly one up some prick who was going to rag on them for watching a "fake" sport anyway. Its like a type of front, not only do they use it to fend off embarrassment from say MMA fans but they use it to justify an anything can slide mentality since wrestling has writers just like a hollywood screen play.

At this point id rather just eliminate all the predetermined bs and try to just have the wrestlers go at each other legit then try to sprinkle storylines on that or around that. I don't need a writer to tell CM Punk to lose to Ryback or Mark Henry when they can do it with brute force anyway. Samething with Cena taking Mysterio's title..

I think that would just eliminate a lot of infighting amongst the fanbase, bring in stable fans who watch because its a sport and not because a storyline is hot, and send these people who go on and on about charisma, mic skills, and blah blah to a place like a performance theater or something. Also on some real talk shit these guys on the indy's like in ROH and etc who cant even barely make a living could actually make money doing a sport they love if all this preference for hot storylines and charismatic displays if they could compete in legit wrestling feds who werew bolstered up by people who like legit combat sports and the uniqueness and flavor of wrestling. The core problem outright is that fans have too much power over what wrestlers should be or shouldn't, obviously the fans are going to keep a league or whatever a float but it seems to me that fans of wrestling demand things of wrestlers that other athletes in other sports dont have to put up with. When does that become inappropriate?

Right. I think the fans have already become inappropriate in regards to how they handle themselves today. Your point about making it real is something that Larry Zbysko spoke about. He was asked how they could revive the industry and he said that they should take it back to it's roots where you have two guys wrestling over the purse for their match. He said that it's such an old concept that it would be new to modern people, I haven't been able to find it since but I believe it was an upload ton Youtube. I think what people don't understand is that a simulated sporting event like pro wrestling/sports entertainment is still a sporting event. There has to be an air of legitimacy to the proceedings. Having smaller guys consistently beat guys that have severe size advantages over them makes the product look unrealistic, which plays a big part in your ability to suspend disbelief, and staged.

 

[One to Remember]

I think there is a misconception that undetermined wrestling will drag on too long too. If you got a time limit and like you said the purse is on the line your gonna legitimately do something to end the match.

I think retroactively the gettin will be good because once we have real bouts we can look back at other bouts like Austin vs. Hart, HBK vs. HHH, Goldberg taken Hollywood's title, and say "that looks legit, those were reasonable real life outcomes."

CM Punk taking on Cena, Guerrero, Jericho, Austin, thats reasonable. But if they want to give him a title thats held by a big guy the best way to help everyone involved regardless of worked match or legit match is to have a buffer guy whos lighter then the heavyweight and heavier then CM Punk. CM Punk can atleast boast he beat the guy who beat the champ, or atleast when the size gap is too big put him in a 3 way match so u can point to another third party if it gets too ridiculous to explain how CM Punk wore down a Batista or Big Show type..

Again I stress I love CM Punk and hes not the reason why I don't use substances but his promotion of Strait Edge is the reason why I promote it too.

 

[MisterRob]

how dare you accuse me of rambling with your drive by posts. Maybe if he was bigger he would have had the leverage as a guy who can actually look like the face of acompany to prevent WWE from doing those things? Maybe if he was bigger it just wouldn't had been reasonable to have him lose to the aging Undertaker? And don't bring up past big guys Taker fought 'cause he was in his prime then..

Of course my post was more a response to your statement that he was a star period but its all connected some how.

What a silly post. If you thought for one second that anyone, even CM Punk, was ever going to beat the Undertaker and end his streak, you're a moron. The streak will never end. That has nothing to do with CM Punk's star power or influence. John Cena won't even end the Undertaker's streak, so your point is out the door.

You implying CM Punk isn't a star is ludicrous. Who else in the WWE has had feuds with John Cena, the WWE's golden boy and baby, and beaten him consistently and cleanly? The fact that CM Punk has been used so predominantly the past few years, and held their most prestigious championship for so long makes your implications seem silly. The fact the WWE bent over backwards to bring CM Punk back, and allowed him so much maneuverability as a wrestler behind the scenes, is also proof they see him as a star and an important asset to the entire company. No one else but John Cena and the Undertaker have that kind of stroke, and they're both, what? Oh, right.. TOP STARS.

 

[CmPunker]

What a silly post. If you thought for one second that anyone, even CM Punk, was ever going to beat the Undertaker and end his streak, you're a moron. The streak will never end. That has nothing to do with CM Punk's star power or influence. John Cena won't even end the Undertaker's streak, so your point is out the door.

You implying CM Punk isn't a star is ludicrous. Who else in the WWE has had feuds with John Cena, the WWE's golden boy and baby, and beaten him consistently and cleanly? The fact that CM Punk has been used so predominantly the past few years, and held their most prestigious championship for so long makes your implications seem silly. The fact the WWE bent over backwards to bring CM Punk back, and allowed him so much maneuverability as a wrestler behind the scenes, is also proof they see him as a star and an important asset to the entire company. No one else but John Cena and the Undertaker have that kind of stroke, and they're both, what? Oh, right.. TOP STARS.

John cena main evented ppvs over cm.punk for half of punks reign
Beat cena consistebtly.. no..cena won more.

And when did punk beat him clean?

Cm punk is a top star, but still a big gap from john cena.. he has never went on the last wm match. John cena is 10 x more credible in ending the streak..

 

[MisterRob]

John cena main evented ppvs over cm.punk for half of punks reign
Beat cena consistebtly.. no..cena won more.

And when did punk beat him clean?

Cm punk is a top star, but still a big gap from john cena.. he has never went on the last wm match. John cena is 10 x more credible in ending the streak..

In June 2011, CM Punk pinned John Cena, Rey Mysterio, and Alberto Del Rio all in three different matches within one single week. He then went on to being vocal against the WWE, announcing his contract was ending and he was leaving, and claiming he would leave WITH the WWE championship after his last match with then champion John Cena. In that match he pinned John Cena and became the new WWE champion.

Later, at Summerslam, the two had a rematch to determine the undisputed WWE champion. CM Punk won that match, too, and then was defeated by Alberto Del Rio who cashed in his Money in the Bank briefcase. So he clearly beat him cleanly in two of those matches. Do you know the meaning of "consistently", because it seems you don't. Also, how exactly did John Cena win MORE during this time period? Can you count?

Punk then went on from there to regain the WWE championship and hold it for his record long reign. John Cena didn't beat him at any time during that title reign, clearly. In fact, in July of 2012 John Cena cashed in his Money in the Bank briefcase against then champion, CM Punk, and proceeded to lose by disqualification. Another win for CM Punk.

From there John Cena had another chance for the WWE title in a triple threat match at Summerslam, along with Big Show, against CM Punk. CM Punk won that match TOO, and continued on as champion.

The following PPV, Night of Champions, John Cena and CM Punk wrestled again and wrestled to a draw. So, CM Punk retained and STILL John Cena did not gain a victory over him.

CM Punk's title reign came to an end, and he lost the championship, to the Rock.
So, how exactly are you disputing that CM Punk CONSISTENTLY beat John Cena for two years? How exactly are you claiming John Cena won MORE?

Please explain. I'm waiting.

 

[CmPunker]

In June 2011, CM Punk pinned John Cena, Rey Mysterio, and Alberto Del Rio all in three different matches within one single week. He then went on to being vocal against the WWE, announcing his contract was ending and he was leaving, and claiming he would leave WITH the WWE championship after his last match with then champion John Cena. In that match he pinned John Cena and became the new WWE champion.

Later, at Summerslam, the two had a rematch to determine the undisputed WWE champion. CM Punk won that match, too, and then was defeated by Alberto Del Rio who cashed in his Money in the Bank briefcase. So he clearly beat him cleanly in two of those matches. Do you know the meaning of "consistently", because it seems you don't. Also, how exactly did John Cena win MORE during this time period? Can you count?

Punk then went on from there to regain the WWE championship and hold it for his record long reign. John Cena didn't beat him at any time during that title reign, clearly. In fact, in July of 2012 John Cena cashed in his Money in the Bank briefcase against then champion, CM Punk, and proceeded to lose by disqualification. Another win for CM Punk.

From there John Cena had another chance for the WWE title in a triple threat match at Summerslam, along with Big Show, against CM Punk. CM Punk won that match TOO, and continued on as champion.

The following PPV, Night of Champions, John Cena and CM Punk wrestled again and wrestled to a draw. So, CM Punk retained and STILL John Cena did not gain a victory over him.

CM Punk's title reign came to an end, and he lost the championship, to the Rock.
So, how exactly are you disputing that CM Punk CONSISTENTLY beat John Cena for two years? How exactly are you claiming John Cena won MORE?

Please explain. I'm waiting.

LOL WHAT? where the fuck did u get ur information? when the fuck did he put rey mysterio, del rio, and cena in one WEEK? one month is a little more understandable, but one week? give me some fucking wikipedia proof or youtube proof, because you are fucking delusional. he beat del rio and mysterio clean, but he NEVER beat cena clean. all those times he beat cena clean were all controversial..


oh my fucking god, do you not know the meaning of CLEAN? Money in the bank - interference from both vince mcmahon and john laurinitis caused cena to let go of his STF and get distracted, allowing cm punk enough time to recover and sneak in a GTS. Summerslam - cena's feet were on the fucking ROPES, how in the world was that clean? Cena's feet were on the ropes but HHH did not see it!!! it was an unfair finish. how was that clean? LOL DO YOU NOT KNOW THE MEANING OF CLEAN? Please.. please.. go do some fucking research before you post, lol.. you don't know shit.

SIGH, it was JOHN CNA that won by disqualification, not cm punk.. it was when big show attacked JOHN CNA, he didnt attack cm punk.. and cm punk was made to look weak in that match , u really cant say shit about that. cm punk needed big show's help to pin john cena, yet john cena still kicked out, then john cena put cm punk in the STF and almost tapped out, but show interfered.. how does that not make punk look weak, lol?

cena did beat punk during his title reign/push.. i actually have proof, unlike you..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLkg-rGBgBE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLkg-rGBgBE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLkg-rGBgBE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7eR5XdMx40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYjIajo_YeA

Let's see. cm punk defeated john cena at MITB 2011, summerslam 2011, and survivor series 2012, but john cena defeated him in these 3 raw matches and he had a clean victory on the last one, unlike punk.. so i guess that gives the edge to cena.

anyways, cm punk is definitely not as protected as you thihnk he is.. if you notice, during the road to wrestlemania, he wasn't booked too strongly. he lost to the rock at RR, elimination chamber, then to john cena, then to kane, although this one he was somewhat protected in, but still, a lost is a lost. his only victories were against brodus clay, randy orton, and chris jericho on the road to wrestlemania.. seems pretty weak to me. how can the fans take him seriously against the undertaker if he cant even beat the rock or john cena? 3 HUGE matches and 3 memorable losses.. can't see how that's going to help him gain credibility. yes, i know it was against the face of the company and the former face of the company, but still, a loss is a loss, and a clean loss does nothing to help.. please explain to me how a clean loss from any person would gain credibility.. if you look at past undertaker opponent's, like edge (who was a heel), randy orton, and batista. They were booked very carefully and suffered very rare losses. even randy orton and edge were both heels and they won most of their matches on the road to wrestlemania.. why cant they book cm punk just like that? don't know man, but its wwe logic.

 

[CmPunker]

LOL WHAT? where the fuck did u get ur information? when the fuck did he put rey mysterio, del rio, and cena in one WEEK? one month is a little more understandable, but one week? give me some fucking wikipedia proof or youtube proof, because you are fucking delusional. he beat del rio and mysterio clean, but he NEVER beat cena clean. all those times he beat cena clean were all controversial..


oh my fucking god, do you not know the meaning of CLEAN? Money in the bank - interference from both vince mcmahon and john laurinitis caused cena to let go of his STF and get distracted, allowing cm punk enough time to recover and sneak in a GTS. Summerslam - cena's feet were on the fucking ROPES, how in the world was that clean? Cena's feet were on the ropes but HHH did not see it!!! it was an unfair finish. how was that clean? LOL DO YOU NOT KNOW THE MEANING OF CLEAN? Please.. please.. go do some fucking research before you post, lol.. you don't know shit.

SIGH, it was JOHN CNA that won by disqualification, not cm punk.. it was when big show attacked JOHN CNA, he didnt attack cm punk.. and cm punk was made to look weak in that match , u really cant say shit about that. cm punk needed big show's help to pin john cena, yet john cena still kicked out, then john cena put cm punk in the STF and almost tapped out, but show interfered.. how does that not make punk look weak, lol?

cena did beat punk during his title reign/push.. i actually have proof, unlike you..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLkg-rGBgBE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLkg-rGBgBE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLkg-rGBgBE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7eR5XdMx40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYjIajo_YeA

Let's see. cm punk defeated john cena at MITB 2011, summerslam 2011, and survivor series 2012, but john cena defeated him in these 3 raw matches and he had a clean victory on the last one, unlike punk.. so i guess that gives the edge to cena.

anyways, cm punk is definitely not as protected as you thihnk he is.. if you notice, during the road to wrestlemania, he wasn't booked too strongly. he lost to the rock at RR, elimination chamber, then to john cena, then to kane, although this one he was somewhat protected in, but still, a lost is a lost. his only victories were against brodus clay, randy orton, and chris jericho on the road to wrestlemania.. seems pretty weak to me. how can the fans take him seriously against the undertaker if he cant even beat the rock or john cena? 3 HUGE matches and 3 memorable losses.. can't see how that's going to help him gain credibility. yes, i know it was against the face of the company and the former face of the company, but still, a loss is a loss, and a clean loss does nothing to help.. please explain to me how a clean loss from any person would gain credibility.. if you look at past undertaker opponent's, like edge (who was a heel), randy orton, and batista. They were booked very carefully and suffered very rare losses. even randy orton and edge were both heels and they won most of their matches on the road to wrestlemania.. why cant they book cm punk just like that? don't know man, but its wwe logic.

also, im going to add 2 more videos to this list.

since you counted summerslam as a victory. this should count as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4uEKK3QfD0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxNlIOJrNH0

 

[One to Remember]

You are absolutely idiotic and ignorant if you believe that ECW Champinoship counts.. because most likely WWe doesn't consider it as a world championship.. look now, they keep on calling christian a TWO time world champion.. he has won the world heavyweight championship twice and the ewcw championship once..

I wouldn't look to into it though, they used to refer to the WWF champ as the "Federation Champion." They used to not recognize other World titles now all of a sudden they recognize Page as a former "World heavyweight champion" and acknowledged in print Curt Hennig as a former AWA World champion. Big Show is listed as a former World heavyweight champion, ECW World Champion, just a WCW Champion on their site, so they aren't consistent or logical with World title recognition. Ric Flair is also a 16, 18, or 32 time World champion depending on how and what you count. I'd say BY DEFAULT WWECW champions are World titles because their belt represented a brand and had prominent champions since day one. I'd count the ROH title personally as a nod of the hat and also because they work hard at hanging in there and have more than a regional reach. WWE would not recognize ROH in any capacity. The world title recognition disputes have annoyed me for years though.

Yes, i know he had a 434 day reign, but fighting the rock played a big role in that. they basically made cm punk a really long transitional champion to make john cena look good. if he hadn't fought the rock, cm punk wouldnt have lasted that long.

But its even worse, the fact thAT he is the longest transitional champion makes it seem like the Rock and Cena are wrestling gods. If WWE needed to provide a buffer that long, that makes CM Punk look even worse, makes Cena look like the Gladiator AND THE COLISEUM at the same time. This is compounded by the fact that Cena was operating with the same prominence during Punk's reign as the top title holder should had been. Cena was so big and the Rock is so highly regarded and protected by WWE they didn't want any type of way we could say Rock kinda beat Cena or vice versa. WWE probably near ten days before his reign they were gonna have him drop it to Rock. That just undermines CM Punk as a worker and a man. We can see it, we aren't blind, when we see the brass cut down to size a guy that is supposed to carry a company it hurts that wrestler's brand..

+

=

The only bigger insult to Punk would had been if he dropped the title after 420 days..

he is a top star in the company, but that is only because the roster is very thin.. if it was in 2008 he wouldnt be in this position.

That hurts because 2008 isn't too far gone but thats kinda lie saying Ali wouldn't had been a champion if he had to deal with Mike Tyson. That's true, but its not Ali's fought Tyson was a baby when he was champion, it can't be used as a criticism. It hurts when you got guys from 2008 still on the roster with him though..

and you really cant deny the fact that an extra 20 pounds would give the WWE so much more faith in him.. you cant deny the helpfulness of it man. it would change everything.

What would he do with 20 extra pounds though? He doesn't work out or rather tone is current body, what if he gained twenty and didn't try to shape it into somethin? I dont have faith he would.

 

[One to Remember]

In June 2011, CM Punk pinned John Cena, Rey Mysterio, and Alberto Del Rio all in three different matches within one single week. He then went on to being vocal against the WWE, announcing his contract was ending and he was leaving, and claiming he would leave WITH the WWE championship after his last match with then champion John Cena. In that match he pinned John Cena and became the new WWE champion.

That is about the only high mark in his reign. During that night and for a short time afterwards his prominence and placement on the shows and PPVs were consistent with a wrestling promotions sitting champion.

Later, at Summerslam, the two had a rematch to determine the undisputed WWE champion. CM Punk won that match, too, and then was defeated by Alberto Del Rio who cashed in his Money in the Bank briefcase. So he clearly beat him cleanly in two of those matches. Do you know the meaning of "consistently", because it seems you don't. Also, how exactly did John Cena win MORE during this time period? Can you count?

In boxing the equivalent of what Cena would be would be interim champion. For Cena to be promoted to interim champion via a rout thats unorthodox for interim champs in other sports like boxing or MMA puts him back on a pedestal for no reason. Him losing a MITB via DQ is not grounds for a showdown to see who is undisputed champion.. It sounds like a Cena perk..

Punk then went on from there to regain the WWE championship and hold it for his record long reign. John Cena didn't beat him at any time during that title reign, clearly. In fact, in July of 2012 John Cena cashed in his Money in the Bank briefcase against then champion, CM Punk, and proceeded to lose by disqualification. Another win for CM Punk.

He hasn't even surpassed Morales in his number of days as champion. Just because they call it a record doesn't make it so, He's the longest champ of the brand extension era, hes the longest champ in a quarter century, he is the longest "WWE Champion" ever excluding reigns under WWWF and WWF monikers), you can turn anything into a record depending on how you phrase it or the time/date parameters. He is still ranked tenth in the most days as champ ranking.

CM Punk's title reign came to an end, and he lost the championship, to the Rock.
So, how exactly are you disputing that CM Punk CONSISTENTLY beat John Cena for two years? How exactly are you claiming John Cena won MORE?

Please explain. I'm waiting.

John Cena jumped between being interim champion and defacto champion through more then half of Punk's reign. He lost his title to the Rock, they didn't want to see Cena lose his title before Punk's reign to the Rock, and before you argue it happened anyway, thAT doesn't count because their wrestlemania feud is dead locked. Its also not comparable to the rematch Punk had after Cena's failed MITB cash in because the first and second showdowns between Rock and Cena were just to gain revenue and easy views from matches everyone knew would span 3 wrestlemanias..

 

[One to Remember]

What a silly post. If you thought for one second that anyone, even CM Punk, was ever going to beat the Undertaker and end his streak, you're a moron. The streak will never end. That has nothing to do with CM Punk's star power or influence. John Cena won't even end the Undertaker's streak, so your point is out the door.

The streak will never end.. I can hear you saying that in some prepubescent mark voice right now.. So the Undertaker is going to continue the streak until its 30 - 0 or 40 - 0? I mean theoretically he could do that since Flair was still winning titles in WWE almost at 60.. CM Punk is like 31, he has been overshadowed by a cape wearing wigger and an ex wrestler who wrestles to get publicity for dime a dozen action flicks. It would had made sense to give CM Punk the streak just in the name of compensating.. It wouldn't even be to show what level he was on it would be in the name of damage control, thats the severity of how badly the brass cut his ass down to size, hop off his dick and you'll see that..
John Cena could ask to end it and would be givin it, it would be redundant as hell but he could still add that accolade by pure request or even proclamation to the boss.. A streak isn't the same as an undefeated record, the next person trying to go undefeated at WM would still have to do it at most 22 years in a row anyway.. That means the streak can be ended by someone who isn't even in a match with Taker..

You implying CM Punk isn't a star is ludicrous. Who else in the WWE has had feuds with John Cena, the WWE's golden boy and baby, and beaten him consistently and cleanly?

Since when was being above those under Cena the equivalent of being on equal footing or above Cena? He orbits cena, it doesn't matter if CM Punk is in space, he orbits Cena and circles around him over and over again. Then you have lesser upper echelon stars orbiting CM Punk, but that still doesn't change who the center of the universe is..

Different levels of stars, different tiers of main eventers, don't be delusional.

Hell CM Punk couldn't even change the WWE belt and he said he was going to, then the Rock gets to give us Brahama Bull belt 2.0?!

 

[The Gribbler]

It doesn't bother me all that much, although when he faced Taker I had a hard time suspending disbelief. But overall, Punk is too solid in the ring for it to hurt all that bad.

 

[CmPunker]

The streak will never end.. I can hear you saying that in some prepubescent mark voice right now.. So the Undertaker is going to continue the streak until its 30 - 0 or 40 - 0? I mean theoretically he could do that since Flair was still winning titles in WWE almost at 60.. CM Punk is like 31, he has been overshadowed by a cape wearing wigger and an ex wrestler who wrestles to get publicity for dime a dozen action flicks. It would had made sense to give CM Punk the streak just in the name of compensating.. It wouldn't even be to show what level he was on it would be in the name of damage control, thats the severity of how badly the brass cut his ass down to size, hop off his dick and you'll see that..
John Cena could ask to end it and would be givin it, it would be redundant as hell but he could still add that accolade by pure request or even proclamation to the boss.. A streak isn't the same as an undefeated record, the next person trying to go undefeated at WM would still have to do it at most 22 years in a row anyway.. That means the streak can be ended by someone who isn't even in a match with Taker..


Since when was being above those under Cena the equivalent of being on equal footing or above Cena? He orbits cena, it doesn't matter if CM Punk is in space, he orbits Cena and circles around him over and over again. Then you have lesser upper echelon stars orbiting CM Punk, but that still doesn't change who the center of the universe is..

Different levels of stars, different tiers of main eventers, don't be delusional.

Hell CM Punk couldn't even change the WWE belt and he said he was going to, then the Rock gets to give us Brahama Bull belt 2.0?!

Yes.. look at randy orton, he was feuding with john cna left and right and getting equal victories.. where is he now? on Smackdown, not even holding the B level championship for longer than 18 months. the streak will never end, but that doesnt mean u have an excuse to make all undertaker's challengers look like shit. the point is to build credibility, it just sells more that way.

 

[lowandmighty]

To answer the question, yes he is too small but its nothing that couldn't be worked on. He could put on about 20 - 25 pounds of muscle and it would make a huge difference.

He's billed the same height as Ric Flair (remember the nature boy, woooo and all that) but Flair was a bit heavier set.

I see punk to be very similar to Ric Flair in many ways and thats not a bad thing.

The thing with CM Punk is what he lacks in size he makes up for in attitude. He's one of the few guys who actually would not have looked out of place in the attitude era.

However to get more to the point yes he does seem like an unrealistic world heavyweight champion but he could slightly bulk up and then be fine.
He's not the only one though, even as he is now I'd be happier him as world heavyweight champion than Dolph Ziggler.

Ziggler has just not grown on me at all and just has a massive air of midcardation about him. I really hope wwe comes to its senses and has Jericho take the belt from him.

 

[CmPunker]

Holy fucking shit.. this is ridiculous.. I feared the worst, coming from a Cm punk fan, cm punk is feuding with BROCK LESNAR.

Look at this picture and compare the size difference between them.. add to that : brock lesnar has better in ring skills, possibly better agility, and he is a trained fucking ufc fighter.. cm punk : amateur mma skills, bad knees, skinny and fat as fuck..

look, i know cm punk is a draw and he should be a top star, but PLEASE keep him away from brock lesnar, ryback, and sheamus.. its not hard.

 

[CmPunker]

What does any of this have to do with him being or not being too small?
Keep on rambling off topic!





Of course the ROH World championship counts. It's a world title, and in his wrestling career he's held it. Of course the ECW WORLD championship counts, because it was viewed as a world title at the time and he HELD it. And that's the same reason that Ezekial Jackson and Chavo Guerrero are viewed, and labeled, as ONE time WORLD champions. Whether you think that way or not, your opinion matters little to wrestling history, and CM Punk being a seven time world champion in his career is FACT.



This paragraph doesn't really make any sense, fool. Why are you asking ME why as a face he wrestled smaller guys and needed weapons, and as a heel he didn't. I didn't make those decisions, if they are even true. I'm not on the creative team in WWE.

And since when is Hornswoggle a World champion or a main event star?


All that matters is this, and I repeat for you, fool:

In the end, his physique doesn't matter at all, because he IS one of the top stars in WWE. He IS a multiple time World champion and cemented in the main event scene. He IS a star, and he's gained that level and the WWE is behind him confidently in that role. So since THEY don't have an issue with his size, and it's certainly not holding him back.. and since the AUDIENCE (millions and millions of fans) believes he's a credible star in that role at his size, your opinion is both voided and insignificant.

misterrob, u ignorant, unknowledgable fool. I am still waiting for my answer.. i know u forgot because ur brain is pretty small, but i want to know WHY u think that cm punk's wins against cena's are clean? also, read my previous posts to get a better idea of what i am asking.. because u should really research before posting..

back to the subject now, brock lesnar is at least 4 inches taller than cm punk and 90 pounds heavier.. in addition, lesnar is a UFC champion. coming from a fucking cm punk mark, i do not want cm punk to face lesnar because it would destroy his credibility. this is my worst nightmare and it has came true.. wwe ahs got to do something MEGA creative to have punk win or else i will not be satisfied.. and wwe does not have that much creativity, so i pretty much dont have faith. if cm punk gets decimated throughout the whole feud, or loses CLEANLY, i am going to quit watching wwe. this is fucking bullshit how my favorite wrestler has to face a former UFC champion who would wreck anybody. if HHH and cena could BARELY beat lesnar, how do we expect punk to do the same? HHH and cena both have more star power than punk. cena is obviously the #1 guy and punk is taking a backseat to him. and even HHH has a better win/loss record than cm punk. HHH is even more protected and he is a fucking oldass part timer. how are we supposed to believe punk can beat lesnar??? punk is slow as fuck, sloppy, uncoordinated, and botchy.. he is no daniel bryan, he is no shawn michaels. he cant make up for his horrible physique using his in rings skills, because they suck too!

 

[CmPunker]

I wouldn't look to into it though, they used to refer to the WWF champ as the "Federation Champion." They used to not recognize other World titles now all of a sudden they recognize Page as a former "World heavyweight champion" and acknowledged in print Curt Hennig as a former AWA World champion. Big Show is listed as a former World heavyweight champion, ECW World Champion, just a WCW Champion on their site, so they aren't consistent or logical with World title recognition. Ric Flair is also a 16, 18, or 32 time World champion depending on how and what you count. I'd say BY DEFAULT WWECW champions are World titles because their belt represented a brand and had prominent champions since day one. I'd count the ROH title personally as a nod of the hat and also because they work hard at hanging in there and have more than a regional reach. WWE would not recognize ROH in any capacity. The world title recognition disputes have annoyed me for years though.


But its even worse, the fact thAT he is the longest transitional champion makes it seem like the Rock and Cena are wrestling gods. If WWE needed to provide a buffer that long, that makes CM Punk look even worse, makes Cena look like the Gladiator AND THE COLISEUM at the same time. This is compounded by the fact that Cena was operating with the same prominence during Punk's reign as the top title holder should had been. Cena was so big and the Rock is so highly regarded and protected by WWE they didn't want any type of way we could say Rock kinda beat Cena or vice versa. WWE probably near ten days before his reign they were gonna have him drop it to Rock. That just undermines CM Punk as a worker and a man. We can see it, we aren't blind, when we see the brass cut down to size a guy that is supposed to carry a company it hurts that wrestler's brand..

+

=

The only bigger insult to Punk would had been if he dropped the title after 420 days..



That hurts because 2008 isn't too far gone but thats kinda lie saying Ali wouldn't had been a champion if he had to deal with Mike Tyson. That's true, but its not Ali's fought Tyson was a baby when he was champion, it can't be used as a criticism. It hurts when you got guys from 2008 still on the roster with him though..


What would he do with 20 extra pounds though? He doesn't work out or rather tone is current body, what if he gained twenty and didn't try to shape it into somethin? I dont have faith he would.

i really think cm punk should get a better physique.. look in this picture.

and look at him NOW

seriously punk, go back to lifting..