Greatest in-ring performer of ALL TIME?

[HBKperfect23]

Shawn Michaels is 1997 was the best in ring run ever IMO. I think Shawn his head and shoulders above everyone else in the ring. He was that good. He could work any style and stole the show so many times.

Honorable mentions go to Ric Flair, Bret Hart, Curt Henning, and Eddie Guerrero.

 

[Dirk]

Looking back on it now, it's shit, but Hulking-up was quite innoventive and people went crazy for it. I hate the bastard, but Hogan drew the most and had a great crowd reaction.

 

[Moneyinc]

There are a few names you just can't deny. Shawn Michaels is definitely one of them. All the way from the Rockers until his last day he was so damn exciting in the ring. Ladder matches, the way he would sell getting thrown into the turn buckles and flipping out of the ring (obviously learned from watching Flair).

I go Macho Man number 1, and Shawn Michaels number 2 without hesitation.

Bret was great but his matches and moves lacked the excitement that Macho and HBK could bring in so many ways. Especially Macho Man's early days basically being a loose cannon in the ring. Anytime he would get a chance he would jump off a turn buckle. Macho Man and HBK were willing to kill themselves out there and were much more versatile than most as far as being able to go outside the ring and brawl.

I think Owen Hart deserves mention as well. When he was the Blue Blazer at one of those early wrestlemanias, he came out and did a damn backflip off the top turnbuckle before the match even started. When you are a kid, you don't realize how GOOD of a wrestler Owen was because he was always so good at being a dick. There were hundreds of things that Owen Hart could do in the ring, that less than a handful of guys in the organization could do. Owen did them with ease.

Macho Man
HBK
Ric Flair
Hulk Hogan - I know gimmick doesn't count but this is In Ring Performer. Do you mean strictly wrestling in ring performing?It gets no better than Hulk Hogan before and after the match. Best music/celebration's ever. Something so nostalgic about Hulk Hogan and his damn theme song.
Bret Hart - The thing about Bret, is a lot of his most memorable matches he was outshined. Ironman Match, I quit match people did not remember Bret Hart. That might make him a better in ring performer as far as putting people over, but sometimes he was left in the dust. No one ever forgot about HBK after he lost the Ladder match to Razor. Bret was an after thought even after he beat Stone Cold. All people could think about was "How cool is stone cold."
Owen Hart
Roddy Rowdy Piper - One of the best flat out actors the WWF has ever seen if not the best. He actually starred in a John Carpenter film which is easily the best movie that a WWF guy has starred in. Hogan was in Rocky but didn't star. His fire and intensity was rarely matched and if Piper isn't on your top 10, then I dno what to say.

It gets no better than Hulk Hogan before and after the match. Best music/celebration's ever. Something so nostalgic about Hulk Hogan and his damn theme song.

A few people mentioned the Undertaker. The thing about the Undertaker is he had better moves than most. The flying clothesline, walking the tight rope, the choke slam. All to set up for the tombstone. Seeing a 7 footer with 35 inch vertical leap is pretty unreal. Takers ability to make that open hand under cut punch was worth mentioning. He was very unique but how deliberate and slow he was at times hurt the overall match.

Owen being technically the most sound wrestler out of the bunch.

 

[Moneyinc]

So many jump on the bandwagons with this kind of topic... I am not gonna say people are "wrong" but generally people judge stuff the wrong way.

Shawn, Taker and Flair get the accolade from a lot of people, but why? Is it cos they think they are amazing workers/performers or cos we are conditioned to think they are by the way WWE (or the NWA/WCW for Flair) portrayed them as such.

Shawn's early singles career was barely HOF worthy, littered with vacated titles, suspensions and mediocre performances...the stuff with Bret got him the heat he hadn't been able to generate although it is only really his 2nd career that gets him the plaudits, and again most of that is based more on how he was called "Icon, Showstopper, Mr. Wrestlemania" etc than him actually being the best. He could have awesome matches, or he could do what he did with Hogan...


Taker had an early boost from 3 big names and then spent the next 10 years beating far inferior people at Mania despite being clearly able to do far better in the ring, we got the standard Taker v Monster. It was telling he didn't get the title back for such a long time and when he did it was from Sid and it took Kane to really ignite him as a character AND worker. In the years since the quality of opponent has gone up but ultimately the match quality, while longer and more violent still revolves around his opponent rather than what Taker does, why else would he wrestle 3 (older) guys in 5 years?.

Flair has more claim as many considered him the best ever even before the NWA went to Turner and became WCW. In the plus column is also the recovery from the plane crash. Many forget that Flair was basically done in 1974, being told he'd never walk. That he turned it round to be considered in a poll of who the best ever would be is pretty inspirational. Sadly some of the tricks Flair learned to cope with that are also the reason why opinion on him is so divided. Some in the biz rate him the best, others think he was a shill who wrestled the same match for 25 years.

What all have is longevity and in Taker's case a carefully constructed mystique with the streak. The matches he and Shawn had were good, maybe near great but artificial, the closest Taker has to a 5 star match in my eyes is HIAC with Foley and I am sorry but one year between matches is not because "he is so good he doesn't have to" it's because he can't do more. Flair had his sheer number of titles but was hampered by his own foibles and to an extent the Mania moment with Hogan not happening. Had it done so, his career would have ended sooner, but with no doubt Flair was the best ever.

All 3 have stayed on too long, Shawn should really have retired rather than go through the Hogan debacle, Flair should have retired far earlier and Taker is now at the point where it's more "should he wrestle this year" rather than "will he", if the streak goes any longer with him so beat up, ending it would be worthless to whoever gets it.

So I am ruling those 3 out...

Bret, close but no - he was pretty bad on the mic for all his ring excellence and even then you can say he was a 5 move man same as Cena... he could do more, but rarely did unless it was with one of his pals like Davey. For all the innovation he did like the ringpost figure fours, a Bret Hart match was so formulaic that it became hard to watch by the end. Hogan, same thing, for a time in the 80's he could have been the best ever... but he hung on far too long and ruined his legacy by continuing to "hulk up" and put on the same damn match for 25 years.

Austin? Closer than any of them, but the neck injury robbed he and us of the Stone Cold we could have had (however successful he was) who was not only a hellraiser and icon but could work better than anyone on the roster. It left us a guy who again could do limited matches physically, what he did with what he had was amazing but it could have been so much better... same reads for Angle and Pillman.

So who do I count in?

Ricky Steamboat - Has to be top 3 if not the winner, for his whole career the man put on stellar performances all the time against literally every opponent. If there is a bad Steamboat match out there I am very surprised. Savage was closest to him but ultimately didn't have the variety of abilities that Steamboat had. Ricky had the best dropkick ever, his armdrags looked the best and he could even make a simple cross body look like the best top rope move ever.

Close to him is.... Chris Jericho

Yep, I am really putting Y2J above all those guys... blasphemy? Not really. look closely. You have a man who travelled the world to learn and hone his craft arguably the last "big star" who did. Calgary to Knoxville to Mexico to Japan to Philly and finally to the big time.
Jericho learned from everywhere he went and when he got to WCW there was a reason he was the main non NWO guy to be featured and was hanging with guys like Malenko who were considered genius. Once he got to the WWF/E he had the full package and the odd botch of the Lionsault aside was able to build his aura and abilities. He worked with guys like Eddie and he learned, he worked with Taker, Rock, Trips and still learned. He worked later with Cena, Christian, Orton and STILL learned. Even this last run where he lost constantly, he was still learning while also helping D-Bry, Punk and Ziggler become the talents they could be. That Vince wanted to make him the first Undisputed Champ has kinda been borne out by his contribution since, sure he comes and goes... but he regularly comes back and when he does he contributes, is never rusty and enhances the abilities of whoever he is in the ring with.

BUT... he ain't my winner...

My winner is -

Tom Billington AKA The Dynamite Kid

This is the man who truly revolutionized wrestling in the 80's, not Hogan, not Flair... Dynamite showed that not only can a smaller man hang with the monsters, but that he could become a marquee name that had the best match of the night...every night. Without Dynamite, there is no Bret Hart, no Shawn Michaels, No Chris Benoit, No Jericho, Rey, Eddie, Punk, Edge, Christian, Jeff Hardy, RVD and so on... All those guys got World titles and became main eventers cos Dynamite Kid paved the way, changed the world he was in and never got the glory himself. The only "bad" matches he had were when he was physically wrecked, prior to that back injury - he was simply untouchable and no one has measured up to him in impact or ability since. Over time a CM Punk might, if he has another gear. But Kid never had to "change up" or grow, he was the best from day 1 and that so many guys basically state they owe their careers to him to me, makes him the winner!

You cannot rule out Shawn Michaels when discussing in Ring performer. Remember how exciting the Rockers were? That was partly Janetty but go watch the 1989 rumble, Shawn Michaels was AWESOME in that rumble and it was 1989. He was getting tossed out and reverse flipping himself back into the ring like nobody else could. I agree with your points about Bret. He rarely thought outside of the box and always ended the match the same ways.

I'm sorry but Y2J has nothing HBK. HBK was rocking crowds in the late 80s, and then basically was doing the same thing 15 almost 20 years later. Finding ways to rock the crowd using numerous different characters and persona's. Steamboat and Dynamite Kid I can't argue with, but still. HBK deserves the credit people here are giving him. He was electrifying crowds in 3 different decades. Rockers started off pay per views with fire, and were a lot of times easily the best match of the undercard.

Shawns solo career originally was nothing special true, but that can be argued. He was a very solid heel and created a fucking classic character in every way and also had CLASSIC matches spread out his long career.

 

[Wald]

Best in-ring is a tough one to call, whoever said earlier in this thread that guys like Hart, HBK, Flair and Savage were/are all the best in-ring of all time for different reasons pretty much nailed it. I mean you could add names like Rude, Angle and Perfect to that and still not have a proper answer because guys like Steve Austin and Chris Jericho have been left off the list.

I'll just say that Bret Hart is my pick of all time best, once you have a shortlist of 10 you pretty much have your answer in various forms however.

 

[Waylon Mercy]

Hopefully someday not too far in the future, we'll be putting CM Punk among the ranks of Bret, Shawn, Macho Man, Mr. Perfect, Ric Flair, Eddie Guerrero, etc. as one of the greatest in-ring performers of all time. He has proven himself time and time again as being worthy of consideration.

 

[P. Nut Butters]

If you're talking in-ring, t's Chris Benoit in my opinion. No contest.
Chris couldn't have a bad match. I thoroughly enjoyed his work from all promotions. His battles with Eddie, Jericho, Booker.T, Jushin Liger, Kurt Angle and Bret Hart, to name a few.

Benoit was the absolute best. Not a promo guy, but he was a ruthless brawler, a badass psychologist - I'm surprised by how many folks think that good psychology comes down to solely giving good promos. Allow me to blow your mind! Yes, it is possible to be a 'silent psychologist', just ask Jake Roberts and Undertaker - and we all know he was unmatched from a technicality standpoint. He doesn't get enough credit for being such an adaptable wrestler in my opinion.

A lot of people make argument that unless you love technical wrestling, Benoit was boring, but ye here faithful are quick to forget: He had the ladder match with Jericho, the cage match with Angle, the kickass faction work with the Radicalz, as well as his knock-down/drag-outs with Kevin Sullivan and many others. Another classic example of Benoit's adaptability is when RAW emanated live from Japan in 2005. He and Jericho put on a great submission match that fused contemporary styles with traditional Japanese wrestling. The match would have been shit on in front of an Americanized crowd, but it stole the show that night in Japan.

To me, Benoit is the ultimate wrestler's wrestler. He's the guy who would bring up the young guys and truly make them good. Whereas many radiate personality, Benoit radiated a passion that the viewers could feel. Hadn't been done quite like that before him; hasn't been done since.