Who is the Greatest NWA World Champion of All Time?

[It's...Baylariat!]

Many NWA World Heavyweight champions have been crowned. But there are few wrestlers that many consider legends and most of those legends were NWA Worlds Heavyweight Champions. Ric Flair, Harley Race, Dusty Rhodes, George Hackenschmidt, Lou Thesz, Terry Funk, Ricky Steamboat, and many others have held this great belt. But who is the greatest NWA Worlds Heavyweight Champion?

Mine is Ric Flair. For my era, no one's done more for wrestling than Ric Flair. Sure, Hogan drew more money and had the merchandise, but as far as pure wrestling fan is concerned, many feel Ric Flair will go down as the greatest wrestler to ever live, so that would make him the greatest NWA Champion of all time. He's beaten Rhodes, Race, Sting, Luger, Ron Garvin, Kerry Von Erich, Jumbo Tsuruta, Stan Hansen, Bob Backlund, Ricky Steamboat and others. To me, that's a who's who of professional wrestling and am impressive list of accomplishments in a long storied career.

So who do you think is the greatest NWA Worlds Heavyweight Champion?

 

[Shadowmancer]

well technically Georg Hackenschmidt wasn't the NWA champion.

But now it comes down to a matter of who affected the belt the most whether in the positive or the negative. That will determine the names that fit in that upper echelon.

Lou Thesz is a straight up contender for the title for the best because of the sheer toughness and the drawing ability that he had when he was wrestling, he was a hooker in a time when hookers were what was needed to keep the belt on those that the NWA felt should hold the belt. I'm sure Gelgarin will put far more information on why Lou Thesz is the greatest ever up soon enough.

Harley Race is the bench mark for titles. Not Ric Flair, and the reason for that is because he earned them at a time when multiple titles were still a rarity. And to hold and defend against guys like Terry Funk, Dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair should give a good example of this. Harley Race is the crossover guy between hard nose hooker and the sports entertainers of today. His reigns gain him candidacy as an option.

I would say Flair is the last of the serious contenders for the title of best NWA world champion just based off of the top of my head without looking at a full list of the NWA champions. Lariat has already stated a good case for Flair and I agree with most of it, but it is still a bit of a debatable point due to questions over whether Flair can actually draw.

This leads me to the idea that Thesz is that man with Harley Race a close second behind.

 

[Freddy4190]

To be perfectly honest I don't really know anything about the NWA. From the little I know, little I studied, i'm going to say Ric Flair. Hearing all the stories about him, reading his book, watching old clips.. the man seemed to be king back then. He was on top of his game, it was insane. I'm sure there were champions just as good as Ric Flair, maybe better, Harley Race like Shadow said. Didn't Ric Flair aspire to be just like Race? But no one had quite the impact that Flair seemed to have. Take my opinion for what it's worth, coming from a noob to old school.

 

[PEP3]

My vote goes to Tommy Rich.

No, no. I'm just kidding! For those that don't know, Tommy Rich had probably the shortest legitimate reign in NWA World Title History. (I say "legitimate," because I'm not counting things like Hogan's alleged title reign after Jeff Jarrett laid down for him, etc.) Rich defeated Harley Race for the gold, losing it back just four days later.

Anyway, for my money, "Nature Boy" Ric Flair gets the nod as the greatest NWA World Champion of all time. Certainly people like Lou Thesz and "Handsome" Harley Race rank quite close, as all are multiple-time holders of the Big Gold Belt. And all held the gold at a time when each and every reign was a bona fide sign of how well established the performer was in the industry.

During those years, there was none of this hot-potato bullshit of bouncing the belt from champ to champ. Most reigns lasted several months at a minimum, allowing the champ to travel the country and defend the title in the various regional promotions. Of course, Thesz became the first six-time World Heavyweight champion. Years later, Race one-upped him as the first seven-time champ.

Then Flair continued the trend, becoming an eight-time champion before NWA segued into WCW. Along the way, he defeating greats like Race, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat and Sting. This doesn't even factor in the true ring legends who tried and failed to take the belt from Flair -- people like Piper, Wahoo McDaniels and Terry Funk. He had a subsequent six WCW World Title runs.

What cemented Flair's place in history, though, was his ability to go on to a similarly successful career in the World Wrestling Federation. After leaving NWA shortly before it became WCW, Flair took the company's World Title north with him, where he went on to twice win the WWF title. First and foremost, this is a feat no previous NWA World Champion had managed to achieve (Buddy Rogers was appointed WWWF's first champion, but never won the belt).

Secondly, since Flair was never defeated for the NWA title before leaving the company, he in affect unified the two titles with his victory. With a track record like that, how can anyone truly deny his standing as the NWA's greatest champion?

 

[klunderbunker]

I have to go with Flair also.

The second choice would have to be Thesz or maybe Race, but in Thesz's case there's one problem: most fans either know nothing about him or those that do know about him are dead. Was he a great champion. Yep. Does he mean a thing compared to Flair? Not a chance. Thesz was champion in a completely different era than Flair and while Thesz was a pioneer, he merely opened the door for Flair to walk through. He's very similar to Bruno Sammartino. he has by far the longest reign in WWF history. His reigns mean jack though. Hulk Hogan winning the world title is where the WWF history begins. The NWA history that means anything starts with Flair beating Race to usher in the new era.

Flair took the title to levels that were unheard of before. He brought the big gold belt into existence. It was Flair that was headlining Starrcade after Starrcade and selling out massive arenas. The greatest stable of all time, The Four Horsemen existed to keep the title on Flair. Flair's title reigns caused entire rosters to change as nearly all of the roster began to revolve around him. He took the championship and therefore the organization to a new level. The big gold belt became synonymous with Flair. It was on his back that guys like Dusty, the Road Warriors, the Andersons, Blanchard and Magnum became superstars. Flair made that title into the biggest championship in the world and therefore is the greatest champion.

 

[PEP3]

It was on his back that guys like Dusty, the Road Warriors, the Andersons, Blanchard and Magnum became superstars.

I'd challenge you in saying the WWWF title's lineage starts with Hogan, but I'm too tired. However, one area I'm not afraid to nit-pick is that Dusty Rhodes was a superstar well before Flair got his first NWA World Title. In fact, Big Dust traded the belt with Harley Race while Flair was still in the U.S. title picture. Later, Rhodes and Flair built their epic rivalry.

I'd go so far to suggest, though, that it was through Rhodes that Flair was able to cement his superstar status as a heel. After all, without Dusty to fall victim to one attack after another at the hands of Flair and the Horsemen, "The Nature Boy" might never have become known as the trickiest player in the game!

 

[klunderbunker]

The thing is though I would equate Dusty's first reign to that of Kurt Angle's first. Yeah he was world champion, but how many people remember it? Against Flair, Rhodes was the top face in the entire organization and almost always the top challenger to Flair. It was there that he got over even bigger with the crowds and it's there that he's by far most remembered and revered (or hated depending on who you are) for. He was champion before, but it meant very little by comparison. his feuds with Flair and the Horsemen got him over and into the limelight at a much higher level.

 

[PEP3]

Trust me, Dusty was over way before Flair. WAY over. Yes, unquestionably he rose to even greater heights against Flair, but don't let it fool you. He was incredibly, massively over before. (His appeal was something that was always personally lost on me.)

The whole thing about Dusty's gimmick at the time is that he was very similar in some regards to Tommy Dreamer. He was kind of the "every day Joe" fighting these incredible villains of the day. A big part of his appeal was that he didn't really win titles for very long. It wasn't about him being the champ, it was about him putting up a valiant fight during the chase.

He'd perfected that schtick well before Flair. It just so happened that when Dusty's workin' class hero was put against Ric Flair's ego-driven life of excess, the difference was so glaring, it really notched things up to a whole new degree.

Still, that shouldn't be interpreted to mean he wasn't wildly popular before.

 

[klunderbunker]

Yeah I know all that. Wined and dined with kings and queens and slept in alleys and ate pork and beans or something to that effect.

What I mean is that while he was popular, feuding with Flair took him to a much higher level that he wouldn't have reached otherwise. With a character like that, you have to have someone for him to fight against. Flair was perfect for that and played the character better than anyone else could, and therefore made Dusty bigger than he ever could be.

 

[PEP3]

While I can't say you're not right about Flair helping elevate Dusty even further, I'm going to hold tight to the fact that Rhodes was already a superstar (and 2x World Champ) well before beginning his legendary series against "The Nature Boy." In fact, it might even be argued that Flair climbed to greater heights on the back of Dusty early on.

 

[klunderbunker]

Well he was certainly a big deal as you don't get to be world champion in that company without being so. The thing is, those days are hardly ever remembered now. His time against Flair is by far and away more remembered as the rivalry with Flair was so perfect that it produced a great feud that worked for a long time. Flair was a great champion becuase he elevated so many people and I can't think of a person that's not the case with.

 

[X]

I'm going to have to go with Terry Funk. Why? Because I fucking love the man, that's why.

Great arguments can, and have, been made for guys like Ric Flair, Harley Race, and Lou Thesz, and frankly those are the only other names I would even consider (Race was very, very close to getting the nod from me here), but unfortunately for those men I'm such a hardcore mark for Funk that my vote automatically has to go to him. Funk was a true WORLD champion, traveling and defending the belt all over this globe from Europe to the US to Japan and beyond. These damn kids these days don't even realize how legendary and great of a wrestler Funk was, they just remember him as the crazy old guy doing moonsaults into barbed wire and carrying a chainsaw around with him. They don't realize that he was one of the best technicians and brawlers in wrestling history, and could flat out go with anyone at any time. For me I put Funk above even guys like Flair and Race.

 

[Lancer]

I will say that it is Ric Flair. Simply because of an excerpt from his book, To Be The Man.

I wish I could find the direct quote (I used to have the book with me, but it's in storage right now)...it was him remembering how he once defended the NWA Title at a county fair somewhere in the boondocks. He said something to the effect of "For 5 bucks, you could see a livestock show, ride the carnival rides, and see the NWA World Heavyweight Champion Ric Flair." He even had to change in a horse stable.

If that is not a testament to the dedication of Ric Flair, nothing is. He traveled to every territory and took on every "contender" the regional promoters threw at him, making them look like a million bucks when otherwise they were garbage before he rolled into town.

And when a new superstar rose up and became too popular for the Championship Committee to ignore, they would put the belt on him. And when he was played out, they put the belt back on Flair. Notable exceptions to this were of course Sting, Rhodes, Steamboat, and others. But even they all eventually fell victim to "The Man." When you think NWA, you think Ric Flair. Just like when you think of TNA, it's AJ Styles, or WWE has Hulk Hogan.

 

[Tenta]

The NWA Heavyweight Championship. It's arguably the most historically relavant title in the history of professional wrestling. I'd argue that it's second, right behind the AJPW Heavyweight Championsip. When you won the belt, you were voted on by an entire set of promoter's from every region to be the standard bearer of professional wrestling. Typically, you were expected to be a tough guy, with the ability to shoot in case you found yourself in a position to get screwed (this happened quite often). Not only that, but you were charged with going across the country, and bringing in money to every territory. In pro wrestling, there used to be two bookings in which promoter's hung their hat on to bring in a huge pay day; bringing in Andre the giant, and the NWA Heavyweight Champion. So many illustrious names have held this belt. the question is, who was the greatest to hold this belt?

I believe you have to look no farther than the great Harley Race. When you think of the NWA, this was the man to hold together the entire contingenct of territoreis. He took on the best, the toughest men you will ever see, and did so in outstanding matter. The guy defended the championship six days a week, against all of the legendary names that dominated the NWA at this point. He defeated both of the Funks, Flair, Dusty, and Bruiser Bordy. the man could work any tupe of match you asked him to; he knew how to work a big guy, but was such a technician in the ring, he put men like Flair to shame. Hell, back when the AWA, WWF, and NWA were on working speaking terms, this was the man chosen to represent the NWA in title for title matches. He regularly wrestled against the likes of Bob Backlund, Billy Graham, and Andre, and walked out with his coveted NWA Championship every time. This was the guy you wanted to represent your promotion, enough so that when the NWA needed a representative to go over to Japan and challenge the legendary Giant Baba, this was the man chosen, as they went on to have many classic wars over the NWA Championship.

The amount of great matches this man put on is innumerable. Be it his Starrcade steel cage match against Ric Flair, or his technical classic against The Funks, this man was a walking five star match before the term was even invented. His gritty, tough voice made for promos that sent shivers down your spines. And even more telling of his drawing power, the man was chosen to hold up the promotion for an unprecedented eight times as champion. This was Ric Flair before Flair was a mid carder. A living legend that, no matter what, was always a draw. He gave so many people the superstar rub, be it Dusty, Ric, or even Vader as a manager. This man was intimidation incarnate. And, in my eyes, the greatest NWA champion.

but, that's merely an opinion. Who is the greatest NWA Heavyweight Champion?

 

[jmt225]

To me, it's without a doubt Ric Flair.

His matches, promos, and drawing power as NWA Champion simply cannot be matched by anyone else who has ever held that prestigious title.

What NWA Championship match is as good as Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat? If you name one, I would bet everything I own that the match involves Ric Flair.

Flair not only has that going for him though, but plus the fact like I said, no other NWA Champion in history was as big of draw as he was with that title around their waist. No one.

Moreover, he had more reigns with the title than anyone else in history, too. To get as many reigns as he got, to me that says there was no other option to make a long term champion besides Ric Flair, because no one else was as good as him throughout all his runs.

So, yeah... it's a cliche answer and I wish I could think of any argument for someone else, but at the end of the day, I have to stay true to my feelings on this one, and simply state the fact that Ric Flair, without a doubt in my mind, is the greatest NWA Champion in history.

 

[Tenta]

To me, it's without a doubt Ric Flair.

Who was, JMT, made a star by Harley Race. Race was the one that gave him the rub. Yes, you have a point, my greatest NWA Heavyweight Championship match includes Ric. But it was his Starrcade 1983 match with Harley Race that was Flair's watershed moment. Flair became half the big name he is because of Harley's endorsement. After that, I'd have to put Harley's match with Terry and Dory above Flair's matches with Ricky. Don't get me wrong, you're absolutely right; Rick and Ric's work was legendary. But I simply find Harley and Terry to be that much better.

Plus, again, Harley simply made more names superstars. Harley's work shot Ric, Dusty Rhodes, and even Vader as legitimate stars. Working with Harley, no matter what happened, gave you instant credibility as a draw. Ric, meanwhile, only made one star, in Sting. this isn't to take away from Flair; it's just apparent, in my eyes, that Harley was that much a better champion than Flair.

 

[dionlyone18]

okay..first i have to say..this is a awsome thread...
second ahhhh that is like hke the million dollar question..there were soo many that held the title..but when its all said and done i cant pick just one..so i would have to say flair and harley race....why? i think they had the best starrcade match in the greensboro coliesum in the cage..they tore the roof off the place...but aside from that..ill give you reasons for each....
Ric Flair-Dont look at this shell of a man we see today..look at the true..limosine riding,jet flying,kiss stealing,wheeling,dealing,son of a gun! in the late 70s throught the mid nineties flair was the best thing smoking..he held the title with prestige and honor..he was away from his family doing what he loved...he kept the crowd into it no matter if the match was twenty mins or one hour..personally for me when i hear NWA title..i think..ric flair
Harley Race-i mean..come on..this man was like one of the best workers and the most over person back then..besides flair of course..he had some of his best matches with ric flair..including starrcade...i believe 6 times he held the title..or 7..dont quote me on it..goign just off of memory...he was another hard worker in the ring and willing to go that extra mile..his style was a lot slower..almost like bret hart before bret hart.i believe he was the first wrestler i saw that would work on one body part the whole match..just awsome man and great wrestler.

theres no other name i can think of that are as big as flair and race

 

[The Not So Bad Guy]

This is a great topic. Now if I remember back then there was a committee to vote on who got the title at least when Flair won it ans Vince SR voted for him. But I still rank Race over him but many only know him from his King WWF days, and some only know him from a Legend Orton punted. But Race held that title more times then Lou Thesz(8 to 7). Flair got the ball and ran and ran and is still running with it but it was Race's game ball.

 

[lycan hero]

As a wrestling fan, I've always had a soft spot for the underrated superstars in the business. With that said my favorite NWA champion would have to be Scott "Raven" Levy. Raven won the title back in 2005 in a King of the Mountain match against 4 talented wrestlers, AJ Styles, Monty Brown, Sean Waltman, and Abyss. One of my all time favorite matches and a classic in TNA's history. Raven held the title for over 4 months and successfully defended the title twice. Raven in those months reminded fans of hardcore wrestling, it was a treat for all die hard ECW and WCW fans alike. It hurts me to see Ravens days number on television and I find it horrible how underrated Raven is. The NWA never saw a champion like Raven and will never see it again (obviously). So What about Raven? A man who was never afraid to put his body on the line. A true hardcore legend among the likes of Sabu, Terry Funk, Tommy Dreamer, Mick Foley, and Sandman. A bend in its history for a wrestler like Raven to have held the NWA title. Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!

 

[MattMoses]

Harley Race. I wouldn't disagree with anybody if they said Lou Thesz, Dory Funk, Jr., Jack Brisco or Ric Flair as their cases are no doubt as stong as Race's. I don't really know what it was, but I was always more intrigued watching Harley wrestle than I was any of the others listed.

Firstly, I don't think there's a professional wrestler who's ever been more loyal or respected than Harley Race. Here are a few quotes from the self-proclaimed best there is, best there was and the best there ever will be on the topic of Race:

"Quite honestly, I think Harley Race was the toughest pro-wrestler of all-time."

"In all my years in the business, I never met a wrestler who had more respect from the boys than Harley. In fact, he was generally referred to as "The King", and it was a fitting moniker. No man gave more to the business than Harley. He's a champion who would rather show you his scars than his medals."

I don't think there's much argument against this. No doubt Harley was respected because of how great he was in the ring, how great of a champion he was (often defending the title six days a week), how great he made lesser opponents looks, how he never complained about his job (one time when working for Stu Hart, the ring never showed up and as the NWA champion, had no problem wrestling in a high school gym on nothing more than a mat), and how he carried himself as champion. Everybody from Flair to Hogan to Austin to Hart to Sammartino have at one time or another stated how he's the most respected, toughest and loyal person ever in pro-wrestling. And all of this was achieved as NWA World Heavyweight champion.

Race basically did what Flair did, he just did it before him and isn't as well documented. Travelling the world taking on top talent, and if Harley thought you was good enough to win the title from him. It wasn't until now legendary performers like Ric Flair and Dusty Rhodes got the rub from Race that they become viable contenders and then world champions.

Throughout his eight NWA World Championship reigns, he no doubt had some great feuds and matches. The list is endless, ranging from Terry Funk, Curt Hennig, Giant Baba, Dusty Rhodes, Larry Zbyszko, Ric Flair, Bob Backlund, Nick Bockwinkel, Jack Brisco, and the list countinues. For my money, he was the greatest of them all.

 

[LascoX]

Lou Thesz comes to mind as he was the longest running champion with over ten years with the strap. He was a legit shooter as were all the old school champions. I do however have to favor Harley Race as the best of the best for the same reasons that Tenta has stated. My list would be #1 Race, #2 Thesz , #3 Flair - all were great champions in thier own right but Race and Thesz had the legit shooter skills that Flair lacked.

 

[Chris_Gillman]

Short and sweet..Who was the BEST NWA World Heavyweight Champion?? One of the few men who actually took the title around the world, a wrestlers wrestler, and a man who was a close personal friend of mine..Lou Thesz!!

 

[Tastycles]

For me, the answer is Lou Thesz. Race is a close choice, but it is Thesz who remained on top for the most popular period in the NWA's history, and to be continually voted as the best option by all the territories for longer than all but one person in history was top of a single company is something not to be baulked at. Thesz was the man on top when there was only one company. His influence on wrestling is huge, he was the true heart and soul of the structure of the NWA. The same could be argued for Race, arrguably, but not for Flair who dominated at a time when a single territory called the shots. Thesz is the longest serving, most influential, and most loyal champion that the NWA ever had, and for that reason he is my pick.

 

[JJohns]

Easily, I'd have to give it to Mr. Lou Thesz. Not because I think that he was the greatest champion of all time, but due to the fact that I think that he was the greatest WRESTLER of all time. He wrestled in a time where title matches usually went Broadway. Most of his matches were contested in Best of Three Falls. So he couldn't really win the title with a "fluke" victory, he had to gain the fall twice in order to walk out with the gold.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Who was, JMT, made a star by Harley Race. Race was the one that gave him the rub. Yes, you have a point, my greatest NWA Heavyweight Championship match includes Ric. But it was his Starrcade 1983 match with Harley Race that was Flair's watershed moment. Flair became half the big name he is because of Harley's endorsement. After that, I'd have to put Harley's match with Terry and Dory above Flair's matches with Ricky. Don't get me wrong, you're absolutely right; Rick and Ric's work was legendary. But I simply find Harley and Terry to be that much better.

Plus, again, Harley simply made more names superstars. Harley's work shot Ric, Dusty Rhodes, and even Vader as legitimate stars. Working with Harley, no matter what happened, gave you instant credibility as a draw. Ric, meanwhile, only made one star, in Sting. this isn't to take away from Flair; it's just apparent, in my eyes, that Harley was that much a better champion than Flair.

The thing is... Race put FLAIR over as the best wrestler he's ever seen... so in that regard, I consider Flair on par and a slight edge to Flair as far as who was better. Race was a DAMN good wrestler and he fought as much as Flair did during his time... even fighting Jerry Lawler more than any NWA Champ did during Lawler's heyday. And the fact that he ended up leaving the champion in Memphis without being nearly murdered is a wonder of it's own... and Race did that on a regular basis.

That being said, Flair made it COOL to be champion. He was cocky, rich, arrogant, and proved himself in the ring EVERYDAY. Beating Race, Rhodes, Funk, Hansen, Inoki, Tsuruta, and countless others over the years proves that. Flair can make ANYONE a star. And usually did. The legend goes that Flair can have a four star match with a broomstick. He really could, because he'd put that broomstick over so much, that broomstick would be feuding with him for six weeks.