ECW Region, Third Round, Hardcore Match: (3) Shawn Michaels vs. (6) CM Punk

[FitFinlay4Life]

You guys can break it down a thousand directions, but I think the angles to take are straight forward here...

This was a massive break for Punk. Lesnar was his danger opponent here.

Without Lesnar, they're no worries. This is still the ECW bracket. The only thing that was gonna hurt Punk and overcome his Heyman relationship here was that Brock evened out that advantage. Now that Punk is back having Heyman squarely in his corner(even more figuratively than literally in this case), he has the upperhand huge to start off.

Coupled with overwhelming factor in Punk's favor number two- the fact that this taking place in Chicago, and I simply can't imagine Shawn being booked to win.

This is the first Chicago match. Whoever is booking this would have a riot on their hands teasing the crowd with only a single Punk match when there was the potential for more with a win here. The only way Punk fails to advance out of Chicago is by losing the final match there, and even that will be an extreme(no pun intended) stretch.

HBK is actually the perfect foil as well here to put Punk over big heading into the next round. A big time name. A legend. A guy who knows how to make others look good. He is guarunteed to put on a classic with Punk. And then he will bow out and give a crazy Chi-town crowd what they want. A Punk win.

This stage for Punk here, Heyman's brand, in Chicago, might as well be RVD/Cena at One Night Stand, and we know what role Punk would be playing. Even more apropos, for Punk this stage is his "Taker at Wrestlemania" stage. And we know what HBK's role is in that case.

You may like Shawn, his career, and accomplishments here, but the extraneous factors are too much to ignore fairly. Punk would be booked to win, and if you're honest with yourself you know I'm right.

So the CM Punk that you are picking is the heel CM Punk who doesn't win without outside interference and who would do his damnest to tick off the crowd then?

Punk never appeared in the original ECW, why would he get preferential treatment? Asides from that, what proof do you have of Heyman the booker screwing anybody over? This isn't Vince in Montreal. Now; if Punk has Heyman in his corner then he is a heel and do you really think that ChiTown hates HBK the same way they hate Cena?

[YOUTUBE]3Zc0PknAvaE[/YOUTUBE]​

If Punk is the babyface (no Heyman) and HBK is the heel... surely Punk will win in his hometown? Bret and Davey Boy couldn't even win in their home COUNTRIES!!!

A heel CM Punk doesn't beat the big stars clean and there is no outside interference in this match. A face CM Punk in his hometown is the exact type of champion that Shawn is notorious for knocking off.

Finally, to return to an original argument of mine, a ring rusty Michaels beat the sledgehammer king in Trip's prime... a prime CM Punk couldn't even beat him when he was a PG COO!

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I've run about 14 million simulations in my mind and these are the ones that stand out:

1) Shawn Michaels doesn't know how to use a stop sign. Punk wins.
2) Last time I remember Punk in Chicago he took a vacation day as a desperate move to avoid Sheamus and get his heel persona over with the crowd. Michael's wins.
3) Michaels is down 10 votes with an hour of voting left due to all the teenagers voting , he gets Punk in a piss-poor Anaconda Vice, KB creates 11 Alts, waives the 10 non-spam post rule, has all 11 alts vote for Michaels, rings the bell, closes the voting, and referee HBK-aholic determines Michaels the winner by submission. KB gets cybersex and changes his username to Mr. Bunker.

2-1 Michaels over Punk. Michael's wins.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

HBK is actually the perfect foil as well here to put Punk over big heading into the next round. A big time name. A legend. A guy who knows how to make others look good. He is guarunteed to put on a classic with Punk. And then he will bow out and give a crazy Chi-town crowd what they want. A Punk win.

I dunno which HBK you are imagining here. I am pretty sure most people have the HBK post Mania 96 to Mania 98. I mean if I say peak, ye thats it innit?

Tasty is right and as I said before this one is real close for me. Punk beat a part timer in Jericho in a Street Fight in Chicago, HBK beat VKM in somewhat of a Street Fight at Mania 22. These two are so damned close for me. But I just think HBK has made a career of beating the odds. Especially when they are stacked like this.

Its like this. Taker comes out in 1997. Wants to eliminate all the outside interference so puts HBK in a Hell in a Cell. Tons of shit happened, yet HBK still emerged victorious. So has Punk I ain't saying that, he has pulled his shit since he turned heel as well to come out with a win. Close for me, so I go with my gut choice: HBK.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I'm not quoting anyone individually, but I'll give a general response to anyone voting for Shawn Michaels.

HBK needed anything and everything in his favor to win matches in his prime. His biggest wins during his peak were against Bret Hart at Wrestlemania, where the Iron Match had to be restarted without Hart being aware the match would be restarted. HBK took advantage of a Bret Hart who let his guard down thanks to outside help and beat him.

His next biggest win during this time was against Sid at the Royal Rumble, which took place at the Alamodome in San Antonio, Texas. Shawn Michaels' hometown. The rest of his wins during this time are against a Vader that was a shell of his former self, Diesel was as green as grass during his first run in the WWF/E as HBK's bodyguard, and of course, he beat Hart again in Montreal thanks to the Montreal Screwjob. But a win's a win right?

Factor this in... no interference takes place here, which makes this one on one with CM Punk and HBK. Sure Punk's lost quite a bit lately, and sure he tucked tail in Chicago during a Raw to avoid Sheamus. That Raw was a meaningless episode where Punk wasn't even booked to wrestle.

Punk's biggest win to date is his win over John Cena at Money in the Bank in Chicago. That crowd was beyond polarizing and was one of the loudest cheers you'll ever hear in a wrestling arena. Don't believe me?

[youtube]5OfSR68tEzs[/youtube]

Tell me HBK 'thrives' on that kind of environment. Because I'll tell you that HBK doesn't. Especially when he's alone with no HHH or Jose Lothario or Diesel in his corner. Not to mention this is Hardcore rules match, where pinfalls count anywhere.

HBK's legacy might be better overall, but Punk's legacy's beginning now. And don't forget HBK's lost to Sid, Diesel, Stone Cold Steve Austin, and Hulk Hogan... in matches that meant a whole lot more than some of the bouts Punk's been in lately.

Punk takes this... in a very hard fought match that sees lots of blood, and lots of pain. And Punk celebrating in the stands and blowing a kiss to the Heartbreak Kid.

 

[Thriller Ant]

I dunno which HBK you are imagining here. I am pretty sure most people have the HBK post Mania 96 to Mania 98. I mean if I say peak, ye thats it innit?

Tasty is right and as I said before this one is real close for me. Punk beat a part timer in Jericho in a Street Fight in Chicago, HBK beat VKM in somewhat of a Street Fight at Mania 22. These two are so damned close for me. But I just think HBK has made a career of beating the odds. Especially when they are stacked like this.

Its like this. Taker comes out in 1997. Wants to eliminate all the outside interference so puts HBK in a Hell in a Cell. Tons of shit happened, yet HBK still emerged victorious. So has Punk I ain't saying that, he has pulled his shit since he turned heel as well to come out with a win. Close for me, so I go with my gut choice: HBK.

You mean like Kane debuting and costing Undi a match he had all but locked up? Hate to break it to you, but CM Punk's brother won't be interfering to save Shawn here.

I think I'm leaning toward Punk. Not enough to vote quite yet, but he was definitely more dominate this past year or so than Shawn ever was.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'm not quoting anyone individually, but I'll give a general response to anyone voting for Shawn Michaels.

HBK needed anything and everything in his favor to win matches in his prime. His biggest wins during his peak were against Bret Hart at Wrestlemania, where the Iron Match had to be restarted without Hart being aware the match would be restarted. HBK took advantage of a Bret Hart who let his guard down thanks to outside help and beat him.

His next biggest win during this time was against Sid at the Royal Rumble, which took place at the Alamodome in San Antonio, Texas. Shawn Michaels' hometown. The rest of his wins during this time are against a Vader that was a shell of his former self, Diesel was as green as grass during his first run in the WWF/E as HBK's bodyguard, and of course, he beat Hart again in Montreal thanks to the Montreal Screwjob. But a win's a win right?

Factor this in... no interference takes place here, which makes this one on one with CM Punk and HBK. Sure Punk's lost quite a bit lately, and sure he tucked tail in Chicago during a Raw to avoid Sheamus. That Raw was a meaningless episode where Punk wasn't even booked to wrestle.

Punk's biggest win to date is his win over John Cena at Money in the Bank in Chicago. That crowd was beyond polarizing and was one of the loudest cheers you'll ever hear in a wrestling arena. Don't believe me?

[youtube]5OfSR68tEzs[/youtube]

Tell me HBK 'thrives' on that kind of environment. Because I'll tell you that HBK doesn't. Especially when he's alone with no HHH or Jose Lothario or Diesel in his corner. Not to mention this is Hardcore rules match, where pinfalls count anywhere.

HBK's legacy might be better overall, but Punk's legacy's beginning now. And don't forget HBK's lost to Sid, Diesel, Stone Cold Steve Austin, and Hulk Hogan... in matches that meant a whole lot more than some of the bouts Punk's been in lately.

Punk takes this... in a very hard fought match that sees lots of blood, and lots of pain. And Punk celebrating in the stands and blowing a kiss to the Heartbreak Kid.

No, he didn't. Bret was pounding Shawn into oblivion when Shawn jumped over him and superkicked him. A second superkick got the title. Bret was going full speed ahead, not coasting.

As for Diesel, when Shawn beat him Diesel had spent a year as WWF Champion already. That's not green.

As for Punk beating Cena, that required a bit of outside interference as well no? Punk was beaten and got saved. Not by the time running out, but by Ace. Bit of a difference there.

Shawn does thrive in this environment. He did in 2002 against HHH where he won completely on his own. Punk was on his own against HHH in a No DQ match in 2011 and got beat.

Punk's legacy isn't just beginning. It's already reached its peak, and that's a peak that Shawn could beat him at.

 

[klunderbunker]

You mean like Kane debuting and costing Undi a match he had all but locked up? Hate to break it to you, but CM Punk's brother won't be interfering to save Shawn here.

I think I'm leaning toward Punk. Not enough to vote quite yet, but he was definitely more dominate this past year or so than Shawn ever was.

No, he wasn't.

Punk was pinned on Raw three times last year in singles matches alone. Punk's total record on Raw in 2012? 24-21, in a year where he was WWE Champion the ENTIRE year. Shawn didn't hit his 20th loss on Raw until 2004. To suggest that Punk was more dominant last year is simply incorrect.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

HBK needed anything and everything in his favor to win matches in his prime. His biggest wins during his peak were against Bret Hart at Wrestlemania, where the Iron Match had to be restarted without Hart being aware the match would be restarted. HBK took advantage of a Bret Hart who let his guard down thanks to outside help and beat him.

As far as I remember this is a clean win. Sure Bret whined but it wasn't like he handed the belt turned around and got blind-sided by the SCM. And if he did, THAT WOULD STILL BE A CLEAN WIN!

His next biggest win during this time was against Sid at the Royal Rumble, which took place at the Alamodome in San Antonio, Texas. Shawn Michaels' hometown. The rest of his wins during this time are against a Vader that was a shell of his former self, Diesel was as green as grass during his first run in the WWF/E as HBK's bodyguard, and of course, he beat Hart again in Montreal thanks to the Montreal Screwjob. But a win's a win right?

He beat a legit 6 foot 9 giant. That kick was a thing of beauty.

Vader went into that match odds on favorite. There were a lotta false finishes but ye wins a win.

Well HBK was always gonna go over Diesel (going by his recent interview) who was the biggest guy on the roster. I don't believe Diesel was THAT green, these two were having average matches not abysmal shit stews.

The Bret win is well, Just a win.

[youtube]5OfSR68tEzs[/youtube]

Tell me HBK 'thrives' on that kind of environment. Because I'll tell you that HBK doesn't. Especially when he's alone with no HHH or Jose Lothario or Diesel in his corner. Not to mention this is Hardcore rules match, where pinfalls count anywhere.

[youtube]Who_p6Y0AVg[/youtube]


Beating the top dog in Hunter CLEAN, great right?

Then capturing the World Title next PPV, Yaoza!

 

[deem]

This one has been flummoxed. Really a toss up which way I vote.

Simulating the match in my mind, there's one thing very, very clear. Punk would definitely be the huge face, and HBK would be working heel. Arguably Shawn's prime was as a heel anyway, but he willing to break face runs to play heel when its necessitated. Look at his 2002-2010 career - worked face the entire time, switching to tweener to put over Benoit during the three way feud and working heel for the only time in his run when feuding with the super over Hogan. There isn't a shot he tries to remain a babyface in Punk's hometown.

People saying Punk in Chicago =/= Bret in Canada - just WATCH that pop at MitB. Yeah, everything was aligned for him since Cena is an easy guy to hate and Punk had just done the most significant promo of his career to date and had tons of momentum. Still, that pop is the loudest I've heard in YEARS. The only thing close in modern day WWE is Eddie winning the strap from Lesnar (not as big) and RVD at ONS. Both won.

I think their primes compete super closely with each other. HBK won by interference a lot which chalks a few off - there aren't many cases he sneaked a roll up as a heel vs a big babyface to win a match, most were way more unusual circumstances than that; screwjob, Kane etc. Any evidence of heel Michaels picking up wins without outside help? That'd be useful. Note; heel Michaels, not face Vs HHH. Huge difference in how a heel and how a face is booked.

Another big thing that someone pointed out was that this is the first match in the Chicago region. Is the last 16 match vs Inoki/Flair in Chicago too? I completely agree that logically Punk would win here if he can go on to lose the final Chicago match to either of those two.

Shawn's my favourite of all time, Punk is my favourite today. I was convinced to vote HBK over Lesnar, I'm finding it harder to put him over Punk in his hometown.

 

[PsychoBlack]

Honestly, both of these guys are a bit overrated and Shawn should not have even gone over Brock in the last round. He does however go over Punk here. Punk loses quite a bit and when I think of him, He has on a T-shirt and is holding a microphone. Shawn has won plenty of these matches against opponents much tougher than punk. Also he's far more brutal than punk is.

Vote Shawn here for a better rep in these matches.

 

[Loveless]

HBK beats Cena clean
Punk can't beat Cena clean

HBK beats HHH clean
Punk can't beat HHH at all

HBK has wins over Bret Hart, Undertaker, Diesel, Yokozuna, Vader, Mankind, Angle, Jericho, Cena, Batista, Orton, HHH.
He also trained Daniel Bryan who has repeatedly beaten Punk

Punk (since his coming out party in 2011) has been pinned by Del Rio, Bryan, Kane, Cena, HHH and Ziggler.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

I voted for Punk, but I could certainly understand going the other way.

One thing I said at the beginning of the tournament is that I don't thing people are going to take booking into consideration for these matches, but rather the experience of the individuals and their legacy. Which isn't a bad thing. But if we're going to say that Jerry Lawler goes over in Memphis, or that Bret Hart goes over in Canada, the same logic should apply to CM Punk (and more importantly, Brock Lesnar) in ECW. But then, the divisions - ECW, WWE, WCW, International - have very little to do with anything, so again I don't blame anyone for completely ignoring my opinion here.

Punk and Lesnar have very little, if anything, to do with ECW. But Paul Heyman does. And if we're going to say that booking by city or venue matters, why not the major promoters? Heyman was the complete brains behind ECW, and you have to almost wonder "how would Paul-E book this match" because, let's face it, he'd be the one putting it together. Given that he has had his hand so far up his puppet's ass for both Punk and Lesnar, I really just take them over everyone in this region. Heyman's not going to let a guy like Lesnar - who he had a hand in running through guys like the Rock on Smackdown - and set him up to lose to Shawn Michaels. Why sacrifice the NOW for the WAS?

This match should have been Punk vs. Lesnar, and then we really could have had a talk about what Paul-E does with this ECW match. It's pretty much his wet dream. His Hogan/Savage. His Flair/Sting. Shawn Michaels may just be the greatest there ever was. But if you think a promoter like Paul Heyman is going to see that as anything but a medal to pin on CM Punk's merit sash, you're kidding yourself.

Now, take Heyman-booking totally out of the equation. I've seen HBK, mostly in the later parts of his career, wrestle some brutal matches. And not just with Vince McMahon - we all know he had God on his team anyways, so it wasn't fair. There are Hell in a Cell and Elimination Chamber matches to go back to. Ladder wars and steel cages too. But I also think that a good chunk of his earlier career was spent in tag action, and then as a technical singles star working with guys like Bret Hart, Davey Boy, and the occasional Kevin Nash. I remember about a half dozen times HBK laid it all on the lane in a 30+ minute match and went the distance, or came very close to going the distance.

But I don't think we have to be looking at a 30+ minute contest under Hardcore Rules. I think it'd be much more about the story. The story of CM Punk beating down the old icon, eventually having old man Shawn come back with Sweet Chin Music to bring in the crowd. But it's not enough - Punk kicks out. A few more chair shots and the announcers are begging him to end the match. Just finish it! Again, Shawn comes back with an atomic drop. Body slam. Elbow off the top rope! 1...2...but again, not enough. Punk with an unprotected shot right across the face - it's over. Sets up the 1-on-1 rematch later on, but in this tournament CM Punk moves on with the huge upset victory.

Like I said you can ignore my bringing Heyman into the mix for booking, you can ignore the way I think the story would play out, but even just comparing the two I honestly feel like Punk has enough Hardcore experience in Ring of Honor, and a few later on in WWE to hold his own.

EDIT: This match is IN CHICAGO! At the freaking Allstate Arena where he beat John Cena and left the company with the WWE Championship. Where he beat Chris Jericho in an Extreme Rules match. Why is this even a discussion still?

 

[klunderbunker]

EDIT: This match is IN CHICAGO! At the freaking Allstate Arena where he beat John Cena and left the company with the WWE Championship. Where he beat Chris Jericho in an Extreme Rules match. Why is this even a discussion still?

1. Jericho is a jobber to the stars and has been for years now. His last major win on PPV was......geez years ago. Evan Bourne beat him clean on PPV before.

2. As for Cena, yeah Punk beat him. Then Punk went on to hold the title for what, four weeks? Then he lost to Alberto freaking Del Rio inside the Cell. Punk isn't a big match player. Punk is the guy that had one huge win and since then has cooled WAY off. Shawn rises to the occasion like almost no one else in history no matter where he goes.

Yes the match is in Chicago and Punk is nearly unbeatable there. Shawn is nearly unbeatable anywhere.

 

[Johnny Scumm]

1. Jericho is a jobber to the stars and has been for years now. His last major win on PPV was......geez years ago. Evan Bourne beat him clean on PPV before.

2. As for Cena, yeah Punk beat him. Then Punk went on to hold the title for what, four weeks? Then he lost to Alberto freaking Del Rio inside the Cell. Punk isn't a big match player. Punk is the guy that had one huge win and since then has cooled WAY off. Shawn rises to the occasion like almost no one else in history no matter where he goes.

Yes the match is in Chicago and Punk is nearly unbeatable there. Shawn is nearly unbeatable anywhere.

Not really the years that you're stressing, but he beat Edge at Wrestlemania 2010, which is less than 3 years ago. Won on Team Cena at Summerslam, but then he had a break, so you can't really use Jericho not winning on PPV in a while as a definitive reason for anything. However, Punk beat Jericho at Wrestlemania, like somebody has said. On the grandest stage of them all. I wish Punk has already faced Undertaker this year and beaten him, then we wouldn't even be having this argument. Punk has beaten Undertaker, granted not at Wrestlemania, but HBK has lost to Undertaker at WM, so who's to say we can't vote Punk?

Now, you say "Yeah, he beat Cena". He may have only then held the title for a month before losing it to Del Rio, but remember, that was only so he could enter a short programme with Nash/HHH. I'm sure if they hadn't thought that awful idea up, he'd have been champion right through to 2013's Royal Rumble without a single loss defending it. But if you're saying that losing a match to Alberto Del Rio in a Cell is reason enough that he wouldn't suffice in a Hardcore Match, what about when he defended the title against both Del Rio & The Miz in a TLC match? Or when he beat Daniel Bryan in a street fight at Extreme Rules?

Not to mention, when he wasn't the ECW Champion (Which weirdly, was when he seemed to NOT fight in Hardcore matches), but he was in ECW nonetheless, Punk had experience in Elimination Chambers, Table Matches & the like. Oh yeah, what about his 6-Month undefeated streak? That do anything for you?

There's so much in the form of Hardcore that can give this to Punk and the Chicago thing gives it to him even more. You might say that HBK is unbeatable "anywhere", but you're wrong on this one.

Punk wins. And wins good.

 

[Tastycles]

Yes the match is in Chicago and Punk is nearly unbeatable there. Shawn is nearly unbeatable anywhere.

Has Shawn Michaels ever won a televised singles match in Chicago?

 

[Coco]

1. Jericho is a jobber to the stars and has been for years now. His last major win on PPV was......geez years ago. Evan Bourne beat him clean on PPV before.

2. As for Cena, yeah Punk beat him. Then Punk went on to hold the title for what, four weeks? Then he lost to Alberto freaking Del Rio inside the Cell. Punk isn't a big match player. Punk is the guy that had one huge win and since then has cooled WAY off. Shawn rises to the occasion like almost no one else in history no matter where he goes.

Yes the match is in Chicago and Punk is nearly unbeatable there. Shawn is nearly unbeatable anywhere.

Oh, KB. I'd hate to be pussy-whipped into such overwhelming delusion.

a) Punk losing the title four weeks later on account of an ADR cash in AFTER he was jumped AFTER a gruelling cash in means he isn't a big match player? Going on to be the longest reigning champion of the last quarter century means he isn't a big match player? How much credibility are you going to squander in the name of getting Becca to slob your knob?

b) In no way does the aftermath of that match negate the win in Chicago. Get real.

c) For all the rising to the occasion Shawn's done, who's he beaten when it mattered the most? Not Triple H, Orton, Benoit, or Cena with the title on the line. In spite of dominating Jericho, HBK couldn't even take the belt off of him. He got tapped out by Kurt Angle at WrestleMania 21 and put down by Undertaker at back-to-back WrestleManias. His last title reign lasted a month. So what's he got going for him? A title run where he was able to ward off a run-down Vader, Mankind, and Bulldog? Big deal. WrestleMania wins over the likes of Bret Hart, Chris Jericho (an alleged jobber, so big deal), Vince McMahon, and a decrepit Ric Flair? A brief reign where he feebly clung to what little notoriety he had left before a real big match player came barrelling at him come WM14? Wow, what a great big match player!

HBK sucks in when it's all on the line. End of story. He's far from unbeatable. And when it's all on the line in Chicago, CM Punk brings it home. He's qualified for MITB in Chicago. He's won titles in Chicago twice. He's retained titles there. Punk rises to the occasion in Chicago. Meanwhile, HBK coasts on his reputation most of the time.

This is an easy vote. It's CM Punk.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Hardcore match??? IN Chicago? Are the lot of you motherfucking stupid? Smoking crack? HE BEAT JOHN GODDAMN CENA CLEAN FOR THE TITLE HERE

THis is literally the most slanted match location / stipulation wise in the history of this tournament. Is HBK's carreer (currently) more prolific than Punks? Yea. But not by THAT much.

Yes the match is in Chicago and Punk is nearly unbeatable there. Shawn is nearly unbeatable anywhere.

Kurt Angle, The Undertaker, John Cena, Triple H, and Razor Ramon would all beg to differ.

 

[deem]

Yeah I'm finally sold, thanks comshock.

Just to clarify what I've been leaning to this whole thread in various posts- Punk goes over here. I think HBK is THE perfect guy to do the job here, he's certainly lost his fair share of big matches and while the stipulation might be slightly in favour of Shawn, the location is WAY stronger for Punk. That's enough to slightly make up for his lack of career over Shawn, and he's REALLY not far behind considering how many times Shawn did the job in his post-2002 career and how weak the roster was that he dominated in the mid 90s.

CM Punk advances and I'm absolutely convinced it's the right decision.

 

[nightmare]

ECW + Heyman at ringside = good chances to be booked a win.

Add in the fact this is in Chicago? That is a lock folks. Punk over HBK.


The fact he went over Cena clean is pretty big. Difference in this match is, he doesnt exactly have to win clean. Punk and Heyman will play dirty for a win so Punk can live to fight another day. In Chicago the fans will eat that up & enjoy every second of it.


CM Punk stops this show at the 20 minute mark & moves on to the next round.

 

[PsychoBlack]

Shawn went over Bret in Canada, Punk in Chicago is a big deal, but no where near as big of a deal as Bret in Canada and that's a fact.

And to address the statements about Shawn's main event counterparts being weaker than Punk's that just isn't true. Shawn went up against the likes of Diesel, Taker, Bret, Vader and Austin. Even in his return he faced guys like Angle, HHH, Benoit, and Orton. Punk has had a much weaker pool of guys to go up against during his time on top, Take out Cena and Taker and the only other guys on the level of Shawn that he's went up against are HHH, Rock, Orton and MAYBE Jeff Hardy, he hasn't had much success against these guys. Punk is not as dominant as his recent title reign suggests seeing as how he spent most of the year feuding with nobody of note.

 

[klunderbunker]

Not really the years that you're stressing, but he beat Edge at Wrestlemania 2010, which is less than 3 years ago. Won on Team Cena at Summerslam, but then he had a break, so you can't really use Jericho not winning on PPV in a while as a definitive reason for anything. However, Punk beat Jericho at Wrestlemania, like somebody has said. On the grandest stage of them all. I wish Punk has already faced Undertaker this year and beaten him, then we wouldn't even be having this argument. Punk has beaten Undertaker, granted not at Wrestlemania, but HBK has lost to Undertaker at WM, so who's to say we can't vote Punk?

Shawn beat Jericho a year after he was Undisputed Champion when Jericho was much younger.

Advantage: Shawn.

Shawn beat Undertaker in the Cell. Punk beat Undertaker via a screwjob.

Advantage: Shawn.

Now, you say "Yeah, he beat Cena". He may have only then held the title for a month before losing it to Del Rio, but remember, that was only so he could enter a short programme with Nash/HHH.

Which he lost. Unlike Shawn who beat HHH in his prime in his first match back in nearly five years.

Advantage: Shawn.

I'm sure if they hadn't thought that awful idea up, he'd have been champion right through to 2013's Royal Rumble without a single loss defending it. But if you're saying that losing a match to Alberto Del Rio in a Cell is reason enough that he wouldn't suffice in a Hardcore Match, what about when he defended the title against both Del Rio & The Miz in a TLC match? Or when he beat Daniel Bryan in a street fight at Extreme Rules?

Are you seriously comparing Daniel Bryan and Miz and Del Rio to the wins Shawn has in hardcore based matches? SERIOUSLY? That's laughable at best.

Not to mention, when he wasn't the ECW Champion (Which weirdly, was when he seemed to NOT fight in Hardcore matches), but he was in ECW nonetheless,

Oh give me a break. He was feuding with John Morrison and Chavo Guerrero, two of the least hardcore guys in history as ECW Champion. That ECW was a joke and you know it.

Punk had experience in Elimination Chambers,

Shawn won the first one.

Oh yeah, what about his 6-Month undefeated streak? That do anything for you?

Shawn didn't lose a singles match for over a year from 1995 to 1996.

Advantage Shawn.

What undefeated streak are you talking about anyway?

There's so much in the form of Hardcore that can give this to Punk and the Chicago thing gives it to him even more. You might say that HBK is unbeatable "anywhere", but you're wrong on this one.

Punk wins. And wins good.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[klunderbunker]

Has Shawn Michaels ever won a televised singles match in Chicago?

Yes, at Wrestlemania 22.

 

[klunderbunker]

So just to clarify, the entire careers of both guys are being thrown out because of the location of the match? Think about this for a second and realize how absurd it is.

We have a guy constantly called the best of all time by his peers and then we have a guy who has lost to Kane, Daniel Bryan and Alberto Del Rio.

Yeah, Punk beat Cena in Chicago. Shawn beat Cena in a 45 minute war in England 100% clean when Cena was WWE Champion. It was a superkick to the face and a pin. Shawn has WAY more experience and way better results in hardcore based matches and at his peak was as close to unbeatable as you can possibly get. Last year during Punk's year long title reign, he lost four matches by pin on Raw alone.

But it's in Chicago which completely negates any of this right?

Shawn Michaels beat Brock Lesnar in a hardcore match last round and survived the beating. But now we're in Chicago and somehow CM Punk is going to be able to beat Shawn into unconsciousness?

Come on now.

 

[Coco]

Yeah, Punk beat Cena in Chicago. Shawn beat Cena in a 45 minute war in England 100% clean when Cena was WWE Champion. It was a superkick to the face and a pin.

Your quote from earlier:

Shawn rises to the occasion like almost no one else in history no matter where he goes.

Now look at the main event of WrestleMania 23. When we're talking about HBK vs Cena, that's the big match. When he's in the big match, Shawn Michaels loses more than he wins.

This is CM Punk in his prime in Chicago in a tournament designed to crown the best of all time. It's a big match. Shawn loses.

 

[nightmare]

Shawn beat Undertaker in the Cell. Punk beat Undertaker via a screwjob.

Advantage: Shawn.

Um, is your brain fried or are you intentionally being ignorant?


Shawn beat Taker because of Kane. I know you watched that match so dont act like HBK won that all by himself.


You know how things work. This is ECW with Heyman & its in Chicago. You know that Punk would be booked to win, by hook or by crook, over HBK. This is an easy decision.