ECW Region, Third Round, Hardcore Match: (3) Shawn Michaels vs. (6) CM Punk

[klunderbunker]

This is a third round match in the ECW Region. It is a hardcore match. It will be held at the United Center in Chicago, Illinois. Assume one week has passed since the first round matches.

Hardcore Match Rules: Anything goes in this match and falls count anywhere in the building. There is NO outside interference whatsoever.

#3. Shawn Michaels

Vs.

#6. CM Punk

​

Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Johnny Scumm]

With no outside interference allowed, but falls counting anywhere and it being hardcore, I give this to the former ECW champion, CM Punk. He's used to the hardcore surrounding and I know you'll all call bullshit on me, but I genuinely believe Punk can take this one, in a good 20/25 minute match. It'll be violent and hard fought, but Michaels is one of the guys you regularly see taking beatings, which is why I give my vote to CM Punk.

 

[klunderbunker]

With no outside interference allowed, but falls counting anywhere and it being hardcore, I give this to the former ECW champion, CM Punk. He's used to the hardcore surrounding and I know you'll all call bullshit on me, but I genuinely believe Punk can take this one, in a good 20/25 minute match. It'll be violent and hard fought, but Michaels is one of the guys you regularly see taking beatings, which is why I give my vote to CM Punk.

You really think that the ECW that Punk was in had anything to do with hardcore wrestling? The ECW that he was champion over was as hardcore as a teddy bear's picnic. It was a once a month or two occurrence to have even a chair brought into play. Punk does have hardcore experience, but the ECW time in his career has zero to do with it.

Shawn has experience in big time matches with weapons involved and somehow keeps finding a way to survive them. I mean he just survived Brock Lesnar in the exact same kind of match. If he can survive a beating from Brock and win, he can do the same thing about Punk here. This should go to Shawn in another masterpiece.

 

[Thriller Ant]

If you want to talk about Punk's experience in a hardcore environment, you should use his matches with Raven in ROH in 2003. They had four singles gimmick matches, with Punk winning three of them. I don't know if that's enough for me to put him over Shawn, but it's significantly more relevant than his time on WWECW.

 

[Con T.]

It'll be violent and hard fought, but Michaels is one of the guys you regularly see taking beatings,

Interesting, this spin. Well let's see here; Shawn Michaels just got done wrestling Brock Lesnar. Now, you and I both know that Brock would give a great deal of punishment in the match, probably moreso than Punk. So clearly, you should have thrown your vote to Brock Lesnar.

Oh, no; you didn't. You voted Shawn Michaels.

I'm voting HBK, even in the ECW environment. Lesnar is a beast yes, but is he really a match for Michaels in his prime? No he isn't.

With no outside interference allowed, but falls counting anywhere and it being hardcore, I give this to the former ECW champion, CM Punk.

Calling him a former ECW Champion is like putting Adam Pearce in the annals of great NWA Champions (not that the ECW title is all that great, but that's another story.)

Let me ask you a question; how many hardcore matches do you ever remember CM Punk being in when he was in ECW? Because I seem to remember him wrestling with the likes of John Morrison, Miz, and Big Daddy V. Hardcore brawlers, these men were.

Actually, let me ask you this; without looking it up, how many hardcore matches can you remember him being in?

Now tell me; do you remember Shawn's match with Triple H, at Summerslam?

Yeah, that's what I thought

He's used to the hardcore surrounding and I know you'll all call bullshit on me,

I just did.

but I genuinely believe Punk can take this one, in a good 20/25 minute match. which is why I give my vote to CM Punk.

Do you really think CM Punk has beaten a better guy than Triple H in a hardcore match?

Vote the bigger star. Triple H beat CM Punk, when Triple H was way past his prime. Shawn Michaels wrestled Triple H when he was in his prime, and Shawn Michaels was just coming back from being gone from four years. And won.

This hardcore setting doesn't help Punk nearly as much as you'd think

 

[deem]

Agree with everyone, the hardcore setting suits Michaels more than Punk. As i found out researching the previous round, he had a TON of No-DQ matches in his prime, and did just fine out of he prime in them from 2002-2010. In no way does it convince me to put him over here.

There are two HUGE things going for CM here though. 1) It's in Chicago, Illinois. Punk does SO well in his hometown - see MITB vs Cena. 2) Shawn just got through Brock, Punk beat Muta. I wonder who is more beaten up?

Shawn's the bigger star, but I think I'm once again leaning away from here here. It being in Chicago is just hugeeee.

edit: don't wanna double post - Brewski's point about HBK being successful as a heel in other wrestlers hometowns is super valid here too. SO torn.

 

[Brewski]

I'm still undecided here but I want to share some quick thoughts before going into a bigger argument.

-Talking about Punk's experience in ECW to make any argument at all is just stupid.

-With that said Punk still does have plenty of hardcore experience from his indy days and ROH. You can youtube him in tons of pretty nasty matches

-Shawn has a lot of bloody matches too against more prominent opponents.

-I think of it this way: Punk has an edge in brutality but HBK has been in way more big stage hardcore matches.

-I need to make a point of the home town here because it's mine as well as Punk's. He's huge super mega over in Chicago and isn't booked poorly there, at least not in his prime(last 1.5 years). Punk beat Cena in Chicago and I would not be surprised if people literally started small riots about a wrestling match. I'm talking bigger than Bret Hart in Canada pop.

-It also might be worth noting that HBK beat British Bulldog for the IC title in Manchester and Hart in Montreal(ok, sorta).

I'll think about all this some more and get back.

 

[klunderbunker]

Agree with everyone, the hardcore setting suits Michaels more than Punk. As i found out researching the previous round, he had a TON of No-DQ matches in his prime, and did just fine out of he prime in them from 2002-2010. In no way does it convince me to put him over here.

There are two HUGE things going for CM here though. 1) It's in Chicago, Illinois. Punk does SO well in his hometown - see MITB vs Cena. 2) Shawn just got through Brock, Punk beat Muta. I wonder who is more beaten up?

Shawn's the bigger star, but I think I'm once again leaning away from here here. It being in Chicago is just hugeeee.

edit: don't wanna double post - Brewski's point about HBK being successful as a heel in other wrestlers hometowns is super valid here too. SO torn.

For the sake of clarity, assume both guys are coming in fresh. The beating/damage stuff will be a factor in later rounds though.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'm still undecided here but I want to share some quick thoughts before going into a bigger argument.

-Talking about Punk's experience in ECW to make any argument at all is just stupid.

-With that said Punk still does have plenty of hardcore experience from his indy days and ROH. You can youtube him in tons of pretty nasty matches

-Shawn has a lot of bloody matches too against more prominent opponents.

-I think of it this way: Punk has an edge in brutality but HBK has been in way more big stage hardcore matches.

-I need to make a point of the home town here because it's mine as well as Punk's. He's huge super mega over in Chicago and isn't booked poorly there, at least not in his prime(last 1.5 years). Punk beat Cena in Chicago and I would not be surprised if people literally started small riots about a wrestling match. I'm talking bigger than Bret Hart in Canada pop.

-It also might be worth noting that HBK beat British Bulldog for the IC title in Manchester and Hart in Montreal(ok, sorta).

I'll think about all this some more and get back.

1. It was the European Title.

2. It would not be bigger than Bret in Canada. Period.

3. Here's the thing about indy hardcore matches: yes they are often more bloody and more violent than regular matches. However, Shawn is more than smart enough to not get involved in that nonsense, as is Punk. This would be your WWE style hardcore match, which means tables and chairs and possibly ladders. Also, Punk never fought anyone near Shawn's talent level in the indys.

If this is 1990s Shawn, he would be put over just to tick off the Chicago fans. he should also go over because he's better and has better results in these kind of matches, but that's another story.

 

[deem]

For the sake of clarity, assume both guys are coming in fresh. The beating/damage stuff will be a factor in later rounds though.

Hmm. It's a week after an Extreme Rules match against Lesnar, he's certainly going to be aching still. I mean ofc at the KotR stage it's gonna apply a lot more when it's multiple matches in one night, but I think this is an exceptional circumstance that would certainly merit consideration. No one has had a tougher 2nd round match in the entire tournament, in terms of suspected punishment taken.

 

[klunderbunker]

Hmm. It's a week after an Extreme Rules match against Lesnar, he's certainly going to be aching still. I mean ofc at the KotR stage it's gonna apply a lot more when it's multiple matches in one night, but I think this is an exceptional circumstance that would certainly merit consideration. No one has had a tougher 2nd round match in the entire tournament, in terms of suspected punishment taken.

No. It isn't a factor, as if it is then you have to bring it into every other match and that's getting more complicated than it needs to be. It's designed to be set up like this. Both guys are fresh.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Bye bye Punk, you ain't beating HBK here.

I don't know how a hardcore match favors Punk. Shawn has beaten better than Punk in similar circumstances, more than once I might add and he did it without help.

All in all though this match reminds me of the saying "anything you can do I can do better". Outside of laying off drugs I can't think of 1 thing Punk is better at, not one. I just can't see how Punk can beat a prime HBK, I just don't see it.

HBK wins.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Since people picked HBK to survive Brock Lesnar in this match for some strange reason, I have little doubt that he'll garner the most votes. Michaels will move onto the next round. Michaels shouldn't have gotten by Lesnar in this sort of environment.

As for this match itself, it'd be great to see. I can see either guy pulling out a win over the other, especially in this environment. They're very well matched up physically, both can do the high risk stuff, both know how to tell stories and both know how to wrestle on the mat.

Like I said, I'm sure Michaels will get the most votes here simply because he's Shawn Michaels. Because of that though, I'm going with Punk for the upset win. He's in front of his hometown crowd and we've seen Punk seemingly conquer the impossible in his hometown when he took Cena.

In the grand scheme of things, I'm not bothered if HBK goes over Punk here or vice versa, but I'm going towards Punk for this round.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Punk may have went over Cena in Chicago... but that was due to outside interference, something that is not allowed here.

Punk may well be super over in Chicago but he's not facing smark target Cena here, he's facing HBK who ate up heel heat in his prime and was loved everywhere except Canada in his returning years.

As such, I consider these points pretty much null and void and the match should be based on who would more likely win. Given that a returning HBK overcame, arguably, the most sadistic SOB in these type of matches (Triple H) when he was in his pomp and Punk couldn't beat the Game when he was a non-performer, facts point to Michaels going over here.

 

[Brewski]

Yeah after thinking it over I just have to go with HBK. If it's past comeback HBK he's got way too much star power, if it's earlier then he's just physically more than capable in taking punk in the match. As much as I would like to make one, I really just can't think of a good argument for punk in this one.

 

[Loveless]

HBK is simply flat out better than Punk in every way that matters (and some that don't). He's quicker, stronger, smarter and more resilient, I'd even say he's got the hardcore advantage when you look at the competition. The only thing Punk has is Chicago and even that's tenuous when you consider HBK over Bulldog in England and over Hart in Canada.

 

[HBsam31]

I had to vote for Lesner in the last round in this type of match. I just really thought that he would be too much for HBK. I know HBK's history in these type of matches to. He is my all time favorite, and I have followed him a long time. I still didn't think he could beat Lesner in an Extreme Rules match. That being said, if he was able to win in the last round he should be able to defeat Punk in the same type of match. Some logic needs to be used here. I understand it is in Punk's hometown, but Shawn has won matches in hostile environments before. Bret Hart and Bulldog come to mind. The way Shawn was treated in Canada I believe actually nullifies Punk's hometown advantage. Shawn is used to being hated in that type of environment. Shawn has the edge in everyway here. I have to vote Shawn Michaels.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

One thing you're forgetting here folks.

THIS IS CHICAGO! CHI-FUCKING-TOWN. THE SECOND CITY. WRIGLEYVILLE. And.. it's Punk's hometown.

What happened in Punk's last major title match in Chicago? Yea, he beat John Cena. You know, the super-powered gorilla that everyone with half a brain finds near and dear to their heart? Punk beat him. Clean. For the WWE title.

And now you want to add one of the most polarizing figures in wrestling history who will be the clear HEEL in this contest because there's no chance he's getting a single cheer from the crowd. Shawn Michaels is a great wrestler and overcame lots of odds. Cena's overcame more of them, and Punk beat his ass in Chicago.

Punk will beat HBK here, too. Don't be foolish. All the smoke and mirrors HBK's way aren't enough to put him over Punk in Chi-town.

Punk Wins. Punk Wins. Punk Wins.

 

[klunderbunker]

One thing you're forgetting here folks.

THIS IS CHICAGO! CHI-FUCKING-TOWN. THE SECOND CITY. WRIGLEYVILLE. And.. it's Punk's hometown.

What happened in Punk's last major title match in Chicago? Yea, he beat John Cena. You know, the super-powered gorilla that everyone with half a brain finds near and dear to their heart? Punk beat him. Clean. For the WWE title.

And now you want to add one of the most polarizing figures in wrestling history who will be the clear HEEL in this contest because there's no chance he's getting a single cheer from the crowd. Shawn Michaels is a great wrestler and overcame lots of odds. Cena's overcame more of them, and Punk beat his ass in Chicago.

Punk will beat HBK here, too. Don't be foolish. All the smoke and mirrors HBK's way aren't enough to put him over Punk in Chi-town.

Punk Wins. Punk Wins. Punk Wins.

Now wait just a minute here.

1. Cena hardly got beaten up. He had the match at least nearly won with the STF when Vince sent Ace out. Punk may not have tapped out, but it took a distraction for him to beat Cena.

2. Shawn in 1995 barely ever lost. Do you know how many times he was pinned that year in a one on one match? Once, by Diesel at Wrestlemania. It was the same in 1996, to Sid who had to hit Shawn with a camera. 1997, also once, when he laid down for HHH.

Shawn lost one clean competitive one on one match in THREE YEARS. Punk, in his best year, as in last year, was pinned three times on Raw alone.

Punk was hot in 2011. You know who else was hot? Bret Hart in 1997. You know what happened to him in his home country? He lost. To Shawn.

Mid-90s Shawn did not lose. Shawn does not lose here.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Now wait just a minute here.

1. Cena hardly got beaten up. He had the match at least nearly won with the STF when Vince sent Ace out. Punk may not have tapped out, but it took a distraction for him to beat Cena.

A win is a win. No matter how it happened. And that interference was meant to screw PUNK. Not Cena.

2. Shawn in 1995 barely ever lost. Do you know how many times he was pinned that year in a one on one match? Once, by Diesel at Wrestlemania. It was the same in 1996, to Sid who had to hit Shawn with a camera. 1997, also once, when he laid down for HHH.

Punk's better than both Sid and Diesel. Also, HBK's biggest victory during this time aside from the 'boyhood dream' match at Wrestlemania was his win at the Royal Rumble over Sid. In San Antonio. HBK's hometown. Ask him how much a packed Alamodome meant to him.

Shawn lost one clean competitive one on one match in THREE YEARS. Punk, in his best year, as in last year, was pinned three times on Raw alone.

When you're wrestling 6 days a week, you'll lose a few matches. HBK's schedule wasn't as strenuous as Punk's

Punk was hot in 2011. You know who else was hot? Bret Hart in 1997. You know what happened to him in his home country? He lost. To Shawn.

Mid-90s Shawn did not lose. Shawn does not lose here.

To a screw job! He was jobbed out of the belt. And Calgary's Bret's hometown, not Montreal.

If this match were anywhere else in the world, I would bow out and say 'good day'. Not in Chicago. And you know my knowledge of wrestling, KB. I wouldn't go on a tangent about someone's hometown if it didn't mean that much to them.

Punk wrestling in Chicago in a big match means EVERYTHING. HBK was really good during a crappy period in the WWE. CM Punk's been really good during at time with bigger competition and more wrestling than HBK had to do in his prime.

Punk goes over here.

 

[klunderbunker]

A win is a win. No matter how it happened. And that interference was meant to screw PUNK. Not Cena.

Indeed it does. Now on the subject of wins, let's think about the hardcore matches Shawn has won:

vs. Diesel at In Your House 7
vs. HHH at Summerslam 02
vs. Undertaker inside the Cell

Let's take a look at the last few No DQ/hardcore etc matches Punk has had against some similar opponents.

vs. Kane earlier this month on Raw - Loss
vs. HHH in 2011 - Loss
vs. Undertaker inside the Cell - Loss

So in other words, every guy (and you could say Kane is Diesel if you don't mind sticking your tongue through your cheek) that Punk has lost to in a hardcore/no rules match, Shawn has defeated. No they were rarely clean, but as you said, a win is a win.

Punk's better than both Sid and Diesel.

True. Shawn also got a lot better than he was at Mania XI. Notice that Shawn won in the rematches, at least one of which was a No DQ match.

Also, HBK's biggest victory during this time aside from the 'boyhood dream' match at Wrestlemania was his win at the Royal Rumble over Sid.

I would think his Rumble wins would trump those, as would the win over Vader at Summerslam.

In San Antonio. HBK's hometown. Ask him how much a packed Alamodome meant to him.

Oh I know. Ask CM Punk about anything and odds are he'll insult you, so it's hard to say what Chicago actually means to him.

When you're wrestling 6 days a week, you'll lose a few matches. HBK's schedule wasn't as strenuous as Punk's

It was strenuous enough that Shawn had to take time off.

To a screw job! He was jobbed out of the belt. And Calgary's Bret's hometown, not Montreal.

I can feel the Sly flowing through me:

A win is a win. No matter how it happened.

If this match were anywhere else in the world, I would bow out and say 'good day'. Not in Chicago. And you know my knowledge of wrestling, KB. I wouldn't go on a tangent about someone's hometown if it didn't mean that much to them.

Indeed it is a big deal to go against all of Chicago.

In 1997, Shawn basically started a war with all of Canada and a good chunk of England and came out on top. This kind of stuff is what Shawn thrives on.

Punk wrestling in Chicago in a big match means EVERYTHING. HBK was really good during a crappy period in the WWE.

The last three years haven't exactly been a golden era.

CM Punk's been really good during at time with bigger competition and more wrestling than HBK had to do in his prime.

What bigger competition? John Cena and......who else?

HHH? Lost.

Del Rio and Miz? I wouldn't put that on my resume. I'd say I was off molesting chickens instead of being stuck fighting them.

Ziggler? Who doesn't beat him?

For fun, let's take a look at the two Elimination Chamber matches these two won:

Shawn b. HHH, Booker T, RVD, Kane and Chris Jericho

Punk b. Jericho, Miz, Ziggler R-Truth and Kofi Kingston

With Jericho crossed off, Booker T alone has more world title reigns than the other three opponents Punk beat.

Let's see who else Punk fought on the big stage:

Daniel Bryan - 2-1 against him in 2012, including a pinfall loss on Raw. That would be one of his three times being pinned on Raw that year.

Shawn's third pin/submission loss on Raw? July of 2003. As in Shawn lost by pin or submission on Raw (one being him laying down) three times in over ten years. Oh wait he was gone for awhile so we'll make it six years, or a loss every two years. Punk - 3 losses in a year. Shawn - one ever 24 months.

Shawn wins. Again.

Wait what was I talking about? Oh year: Shawn had tougher competition. For the sake of argument let's say Bret and Cena cross off. I'd think Diesel trumps almost anyone else Punk fought last year wouldn't you?

Punk goes over here.

As in the guy who loses more often to inferior talent? No he doesn't.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

When you're wrestling 6 days a week, you'll lose a few matches. HBK's schedule wasn't as strenuous as Punk's

What the fuck?!

And what are your grounds for this? Because I clearly remember J.R saying in the Legends roundtable that today's wrestler wrestles lesser dates, earns more and is taken care of better. Or are you gonna bring J.R's credibility into question now? "Oh he's just Vince's lapdog derp derp". Watch them, they are anything but lapdogs in that.


You know I missed the last round where he met Brock Lesnar, and my vote there before I opened the thread was Brock. Then I read that thread, and got reminded by Becca-driven-KB-HBK-love why Shawn always beat the biggest baddest dudes. For me, the city favours Punk but the stipulation favour HBK, coz he has been in some top no DQ shit. The image playing in my head as I write this is his SS 2002 match with Trips. Man was he the underdog and he got the underdog pin and win. I see that A school boy, or a Reverse pin taking this. And don't say that shit didn't happen in ECW!

 

[cult_of_icecream_bar]

Intresting match indeed.Both are greatly overrated by the IWC.Intresting enough,both are quite close when style is compared.HBK shouldn't have gone past Brock Lesnar,anyway he actually did.Punk's run last in WZT was amusing.But HBK is more overrated by the IWC than Punk.So expect HBK to win here.But i will vote the underdog,CM Punk,just for competetion's sake.Because i expect this match to be one sided.

 

[Tastycles]

Both of these men have won and lost a shit ton of matches, so I'm not sure it's really useful or if there's a point in trying to ascertain which one is going to win from that. This is what I'm going to say though. Shawn Michaels wrestled for the WWE from 1988 - 2010, and was only given top billing between 1995-1997 and briefly in 2002. So what? Well the answer to that is simple, he was only on top because there was nobody else.

His big win against Diesel only came in Diesel's last match for the WWF. His big win against Bret Hart only came when it became apparent that there was nobody else to join Hart, himself a shit main eventer, in the main event. Indeed, his most famous win against Bret Hart came in his last match for the company!

Don't let KB's stats about wins and losses on Raw detract you from the truth. Don't believe me? When people like Tatanka and less famously, but equally true, Bart Gunn don't get pinned on Raw for over a year, you can see that it was still a jobbers vs stars style of booking.

The fact is he was in the right place at the right time, and whenever there were John Cenas around etc. He was nowhere to be seen. Michaels' injury prevented us from seeing where he'd feature in the attitude era, but the manner in which he feuded with HHH briefly and that's it after he came back perhaps accounts for it.

It took Punk two years to be world champion from debuting, and before anyone says that's just a product of the times, I present exhibits Edge, Christian, Jeff Hardy, The Miz etc. whom have all taken much longer to reach that goal. The list of people Punk has defended his title against are a who's who of wrestling in the 21st Century:

Edge, Batista, JBL, Jeff Hardy, The Undertaker, John Cena, Alberto del Rio, Chris Jericho, The Miz, The Big Show, Ryback. Indeed, the only people that he's not beaten for the title that have been world champion since he debuted are Sheamus, whom he has beaten in their only televised singles matches, Kane and Mysterio, who he has beaten several times, The Great Khali, who has fallen far since Punk debuted and Orton, who actually has the better of him.

Michaels title defences came against Hart, Mankind, Vader, Sid, Diesel, Undertaker, Goldust and the British Bulldog and he beat a load of people in the elimination chamber. However, he's never successfully defended the title against the likes of Lesnar, The Rock, Austin and more to the point, was never in the title frame when these people were around.

Look to nostalgia and look to the perceived greatness of Shawn Michaels all you want, but the fact of the matter is, he has fewer impressive wins than Punk, he's less popular than Punk, he's had fewer title reigns than Punk, he's had shorter title reigns than Punk, he's sold fewer t-shirts than Punk, whatever way you want to look at it, the fact remains, CM Punk is a better professional wrestler than Shawn Michaels. Just because he's there now and Michaels isn't, don't let that cloud your judgement.

 

[Papa Pillman]

You guys can break it down a thousand directions, but I think the angles to take are straight forward here...

This was a massive break for Punk. Lesnar was his danger opponent here.

Without Lesnar, they're no worries. This is still the ECW bracket. The only thing that was gonna hurt Punk and overcome his Heyman relationship here was that Brock evened out that advantage. Now that Punk is back having Heyman squarely in his corner(even more figuratively than literally in this case), he has the upperhand huge to start off.

Coupled with overwhelming factor in Punk's favor number two- the fact that this taking place in Chicago, and I simply can't imagine Shawn being booked to win.

This is the first Chicago match. Whoever is booking this would have a riot on their hands teasing the crowd with only a single Punk match when there was the potential for more with a win here. The only way Punk fails to advance out of Chicago is by losing the final match there, and even that will be an extreme(no pun intended) stretch.

HBK is actually the perfect foil as well here to put Punk over big heading into the next round. A big time name. A legend. A guy who knows how to make others look good. He is guarunteed to put on a classic with Punk. And then he will bow out and give a crazy Chi-town crowd what they want. A Punk win.

This stage for Punk here, Heyman's brand, in Chicago, might as well be RVD/Cena at One Night Stand, and we know what role Punk would be playing. Even more apropos, for Punk this stage is his "Taker at Wrestlemania" stage. And we know what HBK's role is in that case.

You may like Shawn, his career, and accomplishments here, but the extraneous factors are too much to ignore fairly. Punk would be booked to win, and if you're honest with yourself you know I'm right.