ECW Region, Los Angeles Subregion,First Round:(3)Shawn Michaels vs.(30)Masahiro Chono

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round match in the ECW Region, Los Angeles Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under ECW Rules, meaning anything goes. It will be held at the Staples Center in Los Angeles, California.

#3. Shawn Michaels

Vs.

#30. Masahiro Chono

​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[IHW]

Shawn Micheals is (arguably) the greatest professional wrestler of all time. I think so, and so do many people around here. He may not be number one seed in the tournament, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is Shawn fucking Micheals. This is an easy win for him. The ECW Rules will benefit both men in different ways, but Micheals is know for being able to win in all circumstances. HBK for the win.

 

[MINISTRYrising]

I have to go with Shawn on this one, The guy is one of the greatest of all time and seems to thrive in any sort off matchup. Add that to Shawns quickness, Agilitie and Move set and this really is a no brainer.

 

[Teddy Irving]

Shawn Michaels is probably one of the few wrestlers that would break every wrestling fans top 5 of all time and it's not because he is overrated, so I can only see one outcome to this match and it's HBK walking away with the victory.

The likelihood of Shawn going out of a tournament like this in the first round is nearly beyond believable. Some might say because of the Hardcore rules that Shawn loses some of his edge, but that is not the case the man has wrestled in nearly every type of match and come out on top in them. Hardcore or no Shawn wins this one.

 

[VictorySauce23]

This is an easy win for HBK. Shawn has agility and technical skill. He is known to win in just about any match type you throw at him. ECW rules makes it easier for him and he wins with a Sweet Chin Music.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I have to go with Shawn on this one, The guy is one of the greatest of all time and seems to thrive in any sort off matchup. Add that to Shawns quickness, Agilitie and Move set and this really is a no brainer.

Agility? Moveset? Are you sure we are talking about HBK? 95% of the wrestlers can do what he does in the ring in terms of agility and moveset. That's not going to convince me that he'll win.

Shawn Michaels is probably one of the few wrestlers that would break every wrestling fans top 5 of all time and it's not because he is overrated, so I can only see one outcome to this match and it's HBK walking away with the victory.

He's not in my top five.

Point disproven.

This is an easy win for HBK. Shawn has agility and technical skill. He is known to win in just about any match type you throw at him. ECW rules makes it easier for him and he wins with a Sweet Chin Music.

You know it makes it easier for Masahiro, too. Just throwing that out there.

Technical skill isn't going to help him when he gets bashed in the face.

 

[klunderbunker]

Oh dear.

Agility? Moveset? Are you sure we are talking about HBK? 95% of the wrestlers can do what he does in the ring in terms of agility and moveset. That's not going to convince me that he'll win.

Let's put that theory to the test. By saying 95% can match what he does, that means if I can find 6 or more wrestlers out of 100 that can't match him, you're wrong. Let's take at 100 of the wrestlers in this tournament and see if we can find 6 who are less agile than Shawn.

Batista
Ken Shamrock
Raven
Yokozuna
Big Show
Stan Hansen
Bruiser Brody
Lex Luger
Billy Graham
Abdullah the Butcher
Big Daddy
Dusty Rhodes
Goldberg
Andre the Giant
Ultimate Warrior
Giant Baba
Nikita Koloff

I'll stop there without even getting into ECW and International for you as Shawn is more agile and has a deeper moveset than all of those wrestlers by far. Suggesting that 95% of wrestlers can match Shawn in agility is nonsense. We'll also ignore the fact that almost every wrestler of average size can do just about every move in existence, but that has nothing to do with wrestling skill whatsoever. It falls into the same argument of "Cena Sucks he only knows five moves."

He's not in my top five.

This sort of statement completely misses the point of the entire tournament. What you just said is "well I disagree with what you said but I'm too lazy and/or dense to actually say why so there." If you think Shawn is worse, explain why. That's the point of this thing.

You know it makes it easier for Masahiro, too. Just throwing that out there.

You know what makes it easier for Shawn? Experience in brawling and hardcore matches, such as the street fight against Diesel at In Your House 7, the first Cell match at Badd Blood In Your House, the no holds barred match with HHH at Summerslam 2002 and the first elimination chamber, all of which Shawn won.

Now, what I'd like to hear from you and only you is Chono's experience in hardcore/weapons based matches. I want to see exactly how much you know about Chono's career. This should be entertaining.

Technical skill isn't going to help him when he gets bashed in the face.

This is the other stupid idea that comes up every year. For some reason, people think wrestlers are just going to stand there while someone else hits them. Since we've already established that Shawn is more agile than a good deal of wrestlers in this tournament, it's safe to assume that he's going to move. Why you think Shawn is going to stand there and get hit with a Mafia Kick is beyond me, but then again most of the stupid things you say are beyond me.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

What displays of agility that HBK does that your average wrestler cannot do? Drop an elbow off of the top rope? Leapfrog? I never gave a damn about how many moves a wrestler does. Using HBK's moveset as a reason as why he would win is just a waste of time.

I also never use his match at HIAC because Undertaker had him dead to rights until Kane interfered. That's not going to convince me to vote for him. As many a hardcore and/or weapon based match he's won, he's lost as well.

I'm not one to use experience in a certan type of match as a basis of who would win. I never said I was even going to vote against HBK. Like I said before, his agility and moveset isn't going to convince me that this is a runaway like so many of you are claiming that it is going to be.

 

[klunderbunker]

What displays of agility that HBK does that your average wrestler cannot do? Drop an elbow off of the top rope? Leapfrog? I never gave a damn about how many moves a wrestler does. Using HBK's moveset as a reason as why he would win is just a waste of time.

We'll also throw in the ability to make it to the top and come off with ease and grace, which is what agility is. Sandman could do a Swanton Bomb. Jeff Hardy could make it look perfect. That's what agility is.

I also never use his match at HIAC because Undertaker had him dead to rights until Kane interfered. That's not going to convince me to vote for him. As many a hardcore and/or weapon based match he's won, he's lost as well.

And uh, who won in the Cell? And who won in the rest of those?

I'm not one to use experience in a certan type of match as a basis of who would win. I never said I was even going to vote against HBK. Like I said before, his agility and moveset isn't going to convince me that this is a runaway like so many of you are claiming that it is going to be.

[/QUOTE]

Well that's because you're not that bright, which you've proven many times over the years in the tournament.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

We can go back and forth over this all day and night. I get it. You're a HBK fan and I'm not. It always seems to be an issue whenever I say something negatively about the almighty Shawn Michaels. That is never going to change. I never have and never will base one's ability to win a match based on an extensive moveset. I don't give a fuck about agility when it comes to a hardcore match. Those factors aren't going to convince me that Shawn is going to breeze through this match. We've seen way too many times where experience doesn't matter in any type of stipulation so I'm not going to say that HBK winning is a lock. HBK is going to win this one anyway so what's the point?

Vote Chono.

 

[klunderbunker]

We can go back and forth over this all day and night. I get it. You're a HBK fan and I'm not. It always seems to be an issue whenever I say something negatively about the almighty Shawn Michaels. That is never going to change. I never have and never will base one's ability to win a match based on an extensive moveset. I don't give a fuck about agility when it comes to a hardcore match. Those factors aren't going to convince me that Shawn is going to breeze through this match. We've seen way too many times where experience doesn't matter in any type of stipulation so I'm not going to say that HBK winning is a lock. HBK is going to win this one anyway so what's the point?

Vote Chono.

We've also seen a lot of examples where Shawn has used speed and agility to win hardcore based matches over bigger and stronger opponents. Granted that isn't the case with Chono, but apparently your idea is to vote against Shawn for the sake of some dislike of him, which is pretty ridiculous when everything you've given against him has been shot down. Also I'm still waiting on that list of Chono matches from you, although I'd assume you might have seen maybe five minutes of his matches at most and are voting for him because you've heard his name before.

 

[The Brain]

I admit even though I put Chono on my list of 128 I haven't seen too much of him. What little I have seen I've liked. He's a great competitor but he's just not going to get by Shawn Michaels. Sure, Michaels has lost a lot in big matches but there's no way he's going out in the first round of this tournament. Michaels always steps up in big matches so there's no way he would be denied the opportunity of having more big matches in a tournament like this.

 

[6timehitta]

Chono is a great wrestler overall, but HBK is iconic for a reason. He makes it close and wins with a Sweet Chin Music outta no where.

 

[Brewski]

I'll be honest, I don't know anything about chono. Not a single thing.

If it were anyone but HBK who I know to win big matches I would bother to research but I jsut don't think theres anything that could convince me that chono could beat him.

HBK Pin.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

We've also seen a lot of examples where Shawn has used speed and agility to win hardcore based matches over bigger and stronger opponents. Granted that isn't the case with Chono, but apparently your idea is to vote against Shawn for the sake of some dislike of him, which is pretty ridiculous when everything you've given against him has been shot down. Also I'm still waiting on that list of Chono matches from you, although I'd assume you might have seen maybe five minutes of his matches at most and are voting for him because you've heard his name before.

You have me wrong, KB. I'm not even going to vote for this match because I do not know a whole lot about Chono. I'm not like Brewski who is going to vote for HBK even though he has never heard of Chono.

I got to get ready for Benoit vs. Simmons. Who knows? Maybe HBK will face Benoit later on in this tournament. That will be fun.

 

[deem]

Chono is great. Like, really great. Shawn is my favourite of all time but I feared this would be a pretty significant round one hurdle - the guy has won the f G1 Climax five times! He's cleanly beat Lou Thesz (yh he was 74 years old, shhhh). He broke Goldbergs arm. In fact, outside of Muta, Fujinami, and maybe Ultimo Dragon, you'd struggle to find a Japanese wrestler with so much work in North America. Other than the ones that weren't huge in japan previously, like Yoko etc.

Shawn's great though and I too think the stipulation is slightly in his favour. I think a guy before summed it up really well - Shawn is never booked to go out first round in a tournament like this. It'd be ridiculous. Next round vs Brock is a different story, but he has to get through here.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Michaels would win this but I gotta say this would in no way be a walk in the park for HBK.

I haven't seen a whole lot of Chono but from what I've seen he's pretty damn good, from what I've heard he's even better. I also remember Chono doing very well for himself in WCW during the early 90's so he definitely has quite a bit of experience in America.

From an in ring standpoint though I can't say enough about Shawn Michaels, he really is incredible. He's not my favorite wrestler but I will never take away from his immense skill and pure awesomeness between the ropes. I could see Chono getting a decent amount of offense win but ultimately he would lose.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Oh dear.
Let's put that theory to the test. By saying 95% can match what he does, that means if I can find 6 or more wrestlers out of 100 that can't match him, you're wrong. Let's take at 100 of the wrestlers in this tournament and see if we can find 6 who are less agile than Shawn.

This is flawed reasoning. You've based your argument on 100 out of at least 1500 wrestlers that have competed in significant companies throughout the history of professional wrestling. You just picked one hundred due to the fact that it serves as a base for percentages. List and name at least 76 wrestlers and then maybe this will hold weight.

 

[klunderbunker]

This is flawed reasoning. You've based your argument on 100 out of at least 1500 wrestlers that have competed in significant companies throughout the history of professional wrestling. You just picked one hundred due to the fact that it serves as a base for percentages. List and name at least 76 wrestlers and then maybe this will hold weight.

Here are 100 and I could certainly go on, but I think I've proven my point.

Spoiler

1. Batista
2. Ken Shamrock
3. Raven
4. Yokozuna
5. Big Show
6. Stan Hansen
7. Bruiser Brody
8. Lex Luger
9. Billy Graham
10. Abdullah the Butcher
11. Big Daddy
12. Dusty Rhodes
13. Goldberg
14. Andre the Giant
15. Ultimate Warrior
16. Giant Baba
17. Nikita Koloff
18. Iron Sheik
19. Jake Roberts
20. Terry Funk
21. William Regal
22. Dory Funk Jr.
23. Mad Dog Vachon
24. Kevin Nash
25. Barry Windham
26. Jeff Jarrett
27. Bob Backlund
28. Bubba Ray Dudley
29. Larry Zbyszko
30. Brock Lesnar
31. Magnum T.A.
32. Jerry Lawler
33. Scott Steiner
34. Pedro Morales
35. Ric Flair
36. Steve Austin
37. Greg Valentine
38. Bobo Brazil
39. Bruno Sammartino
40. Steve Williams
41. Jack Brisco
42. Mark Henry
43. Taz
44. The Miz
45. Scott Hall
46. Sgt. Slaughter
47. Pat Patterson
48. Ahmed Johnson
49. Honky Tonk Man
50. Godfather
51. Mike Knox
52. Gangrel
53. Giant Haystacks
54. Junkyard Dog
55. Road Dogg
56. El Canek
57. Gorgeous George
58. Terry Gordy
59. Animal
60. Ernie Ladd
61. Hawk
62. Jack Swagger
63. Wahoo McDaniel
64. Akeem
65. Blackjack Mulligan
66. Sandman
67. Jim Duggan
68. Ole Anderson
69. Great Khali
70. Kamala
71. Abyss
72. Billy Gunn
73. MVP
74. Tommy Dreamer
75. Fit Finlay
76. Ryback
77. John Studd
78. Killer Khan
79. Ken Patera
80. Mike Rotundo
81. Original Sheik
82. Wade Barrett
83. Ronnie Garvin
84. Brutus Beefcake
85. Tommy Rich
86. David Hart-Smith
87. Ezekiel Jackson
88. Rhyno
89. Rikishi
90. Al Snow
91. Kevin Steen
92. Ivan Koloff
93. Dan Severn
94. Matt Morgan
95. Haystacks Calhoun
96. Nikolai Volkoff
97. Ron Harris
98. Don Harris
99. Garret Bischoff
100. D-Von Dudley

 

[Tastycles]

I can see this argument has already descended into the ridiculous, so I'll keep this brief. Chono is one of the few Japanese stars that did something to enter the American wrestling fan's mind. One was winning the NWA title in the early 90s, as WCW was pulling away and later he was somehow involved with nWo for reasons I've never fully understood. So, he's got credentials.

Michaels is definitely held in higher regard than he should be - he had some good matches but should never have been the main guy. At the end of the day, he was the main guy though and in that role, he pulled off a lot of successes in front of not very many people. I just think that given the location and the overall achievements of Michaels, I'm going with him.

 

[deem]

Agility? Moveset? Are you sure we are talking about HBK? 95% of the wrestlers can do what he does in the ring in terms of agility and moveset. That's not going to convince me that he'll win.

This is so silly. You think nineteen out of twenty are as agile as Shawn Michaels? I mean, you walk into a wrestling federation, line them up, and only one in 20 don't have as vast a moveset and are as agile as a prime HBK???

I mean, this tournament is a who's-who of professional wrestling. Being SUPER generous to everyone, at least 66/128 instantly failed to compare. Thats's not including McGuinness/Joe/Mr Anderson/Jarrett/Snuka etc, which I think is hugely generous.

Agility
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tDt9dHUTjU

Come along. This is mostly old, crippled Shawn too. I'd love to see Giant Baba do an Asai moonsault through an announcers table.

It's hard to find a moveset video, nothing does it justice. This is a start though, I think you could handily find 100 more but I can't be assed and nor should anybody else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwYymNjh1cM

Again, I'd love to see any 300 pounder other than Taker and Vader with this diverse a moveset.

You are trolling, don't understand percentages, or completely biased against Shawn here. There is no fourth option.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Shawn Michaels is pretty much the total package when it comes to professional wrestling. He can do it all, including holding his own when it comes to matches involving weapons, as we have seen on numerous occasions over the years.

Chono is no slouch, but he is no Shawn Michaels, who is one of the greatest of all time. This would be a pretty good match, but I can't see beyond a Michaels victory in this. He isnt going to go down in the 1st round.