ECW Region, Fourth Round, Hell in a Cell: (2) Ric Flair vs. (6) CM Punk

[klunderbunker]

This is a fourth round match in the ECW Region. It is a Hell in a Cell match. It will be held at the United Center in Chicago, Illinois. Assume one week has passed since the first round matches.

Hell in a Cell Match Rules: The match is held inside the 20 foot high Hell in a Cell cage. Victory is attained by pinfall or submission and must take place in the ring. Rope breaks do not count.

#2. Ric Flair

Vs.

#6. CM Punk

​

Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

You know that argument I made about Punk's home advantage? Well it's rendered MOOT against Ric Flair.

All Flair did as NWA Champion was go into the home territory of the biggest star, and come out on top or with a draw. And nobody, and I mean NOBODY does a cage match like Ric Flair. He'll make Punk look like a billion dollars and tons of near falls will take place, but in the end, Flair's getting the win here.

Flair wins.

 

[HBsam31]

Last round I thought Punk's home town advantage was highly overrated, and this round I think the advantage has finally been taken out of the equation. Falir went into everyone's home town and won or drew like was mentioned above. It has also been stated that no one does the cage match like The Nature Boy. Flair should take this one easily.

 

[LSN80]

There's not a whole lot to be said here. While Punk has won two titles and successfully defended another in his hometown, none were inside a steel cage. Punk hasn't exactly been successful inside Hell In A Cell, with a 1-2 record. His only win was against Ryback, and he was dominated in the match before the referee interfered, with losses to Alberto Del Rio and The Undertaker. He's also lost to Chris Jericho inside a steel cage in 2008 for the World Title.

Flair truly came into his prime with an incredibly bloody cage match against Harley Race in 1983 at Starcade, and beat an in-his-prime HHH in another bloody cage match 22 years later in 2005 at Taboo Tuesday. If he can get by HHH and Harley Race, I have no doubt he can get by Punk.

As has been said, there's no hometown advantage here for CM Punk. Throw in his lack of success in cage matches as compared to Flair's incredible success in them, and this is an easy pick. Punk won't submit to the figure four, but Flair would roll him up with a handful of tights and his feet on the ropes for the three count after a bloody affair.

Flair wins this.

 

[nightmare]

I am one of the biggest CM Punk fans, but even I know- Flair wins this one folks.

Punk had a history making title run, but it fails to stack up against Flair & his reigns.

Punk is fighting in Chicago, but Flair made a career out of beating guys on their turf.

Punk is so-so in a caged structure, Flair wins them in bloody battles.

Punk has beaten some of the best in this era & had some high profile wins, Flair has beaten the best in multiple decades & has won some of the best matches ever.


Vote Flair, because he outclasses Punk here. On the mic, in the ring, as a heel, etc.- Flair gets it done & Punk simply has not got what Flair has.


WOOOOOOO!!!!!

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Ric Flair overcame Harley Race to win the NWA World Heavyweight Title and officially take the torch as "the Man"... CM Punk needed the referee to screw Ryback.

Punk has just come off a year plus reign were he was seldom top of PPV cards nor even in the final segment of RAW. Flair was the top draw for the NWA for a decade and was World Champion for over 8 years of that period.

During Punk's "prime" he has been made to look secondary to Triple H, John Cena, the Rock, the Undertaker and (arguably) Brock Lesnar - "Best in the World" is a catchphrase. Naitch was the top guy, full stop - "To be the man, you have to beat the man!" and you know what? Even the ones who did beat the man, quickly learned that beating the man and staying the man were two completely different propositions.

Please don't have rose tinted glasses folks, CM Punk has a huge way to go to be mentioned in the same breath as the dirtiest player in the game. Vote the Nature Boy... sorry... I can't resist... "Woooooooo!!!"

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

By the opinions so far, it looks like Flair in a landslide. Wouldn't be surprised if it goes even, or more in the favor of CM Punk when the actual poll goes up. The "Straight Edge Messiah" has a few things going for him - Chicago, ECW, the aforementioned Heyman-booking nobody wanted to take into account in the first or second round.

This may be negligible, because Flair is pretty much god all over the world, but he never really got insanely popular in Chicago. In fact, if I'm remembering NWA title history correctly, one of his championship loses was in the Windy City. Punk, on the other hand, has WON two of his titles at home.

I'm not saying Punk should win, just trying to play devil's advocate for what little possibility he may have.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Flair should win this, he probably won't but he should (god I hope I'm wrong). I've seen Flair survive similar environments to hell in a cell numerous times so I don't see Punk being the guy to do it here. I like Punk, he's a great wrestler but this is the Nature Boy we are talking about here, there is nothing Punk can show Ric that he doesn't already know. Flair is very adept in such an environment and beaten the likes of Race and Dusty in such a situation.

Punk you're good but you aren't Ric Flair. Flair wins.

 

[steve_smith]

I don't see how anyone could vote Punk here.

Almost everything Punk does good, Flair did better.

imo, Flair is the best heel in the history of wrestling and, let's face it, punk has only been a superstar for what? 2 years? Flair did his thing for decades.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

CM Punk is pretty dominant in his home town but as the NWA Worlds Heavyweight Champion, Ric Flair spent years travelling to different states and beating their home town star, after making them look like a million bucks. I see nothing different here.

Flair has been in some wild, bloody cage matches and has the edge on Punk in experience, as well as beating more big names in big matches. Naitch was THE MAN for about 20 years, while Punk wasnt even headlining shows as the WWE Champion this past year (which is disgraceful btw)

It would be a war, thats for sure. Punk would dominate in spells but just as he always did, Flair will find a way to beat the hometown hero just as everyone is beginning to think that maybe it's Punk's night.

Winner: Ric Flair

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Great heel vs. the best heel of all time.

I think Punk would be considered the tougher guy, but Flair always has a plan. Also, Punk isn't that much more of a bad ass to where Flair doesn't stand a chance. Punk isn't Brock Lesnar or someone like that.

I'll go with Flair because I think this comes down to who has the better game plan. Remember, both men are heels (probably, unless the first half of Punk's WWE title reign is what you consider his prime), so I'm basing this off who was the greater coward.

Flair wins.

 

[PsychoBlack]

Any match that allows for Ric Flair to get the shit beat out of him is a match that he will more than likely win. Hell in a Cell would have been perfect for a prime Flair, he runs around the cage trying to stay away and keeps getting caught then he slowly mounts his comeback while wearing a crimson mask. We've seen Flair win these brutal matches time and again after taking an inhumane amount of punishment. If Flair can go over the likes of Race, Sting, HHH, Rhodes, Savage, and Hart CM Punk will be no match for him.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Great heel vs. the best heel of all time.

I think Punk would be considered the tougher guy, but Flair always has a plan. Also, Punk isn't that much more of a bad ass to where Flair doesn't stand a chance. Punk isn't Brock Lesnar or someone like that.

I'll go with Flair because I think this comes down to who has the better game plan. Remember, both men are heels (probably, unless the first half of Punk's WWE title reign is what you consider his prime), so I'm basing this off who was the greater coward.

Flair wins.

Strange thing is I believe you have to take Punk as a face; as a heel he lost his title and it's subsequent rematch, his dominance of Cena ended and he has lost to both brothers of destruction. Punk is more entertaining as a heel but he was more dominant in the ring as a face.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

By the opinions so far, it looks like Flair in a landslide. Wouldn't be surprised if it goes even, or more in the favor of CM Punk when the actual poll goes up. The "Straight Edge Messiah" has a few things going for him - Chicago, ECW, the aforementioned Heyman-booking nobody wanted to take into account in the first or second round.

This may be negligible, because Flair is pretty much god all over the world, but he never really got insanely popular in Chicago. In fact, if I'm remembering NWA title history correctly, one of his championship loses was in the Windy City. Punk, on the other hand, has WON two of his titles at home.

I'm not saying Punk should win, just trying to play devil's advocate for what little possibility he may have.

The most memorable of Flair's matches in Chi-town was Starrcade 1987, where he regained the NWA title against Ronnie Garvin - in a steel cage match. And in that match, he took such a severe beating that he had a staph infection from taking so many chops to the chest.

Lots of fanboys for Punk might show up and make this closer than it needs to be, but this should go to Flair in a large margin of victory.

 

[Papa Pillman]

Harley Race, Kerry Von Erich, Randy Savage, Hulk Hogan, and Triple H. What is this besides a list of some of the greatest ever(three of which who are still active in this tourney)?? It's a list of guys who Ric Flair has beaten inside a steel cage. And those wins spanned over two decades. Granted Flair has never been inside the Hell in a Cell structure, but its just a bigger cage. Also Flair has competed several times in War Games which would be a close equivalent, he has lost more than he's won in those instances, but much of that could be attributed to his teammates.

Punk has competed in Hell in a Cell, but has a very dubious history, having lost to Taker, plus Del Rio and Cena, as well as needing the help of Brad Maddox while on the verge of being Shell-Shocked to survive a beating against a mere upstart in Ryback.

Punk's advantage here is clearly the home crowd. Flair's history of success in cage matches can even out that advantage. Flair also had the relatively less brutal match-up in the last round competing in a submissions match with Inoki, while Punk had to endure a hardcore battle with HBK. That combined with the fact that Flair is the greatest heel that the industry has produced, and will make for the more desirable choice from a bookers perspective to have in the next round, makes him the right choice to go over in this one.

 

[Bernkastel]

I'm disappointed that Flair beat Inoki last round, but that being said he doesn't lose to CM Punk. Punk is just now entering his prime, and this last title reign was not only his best reign to date, but it was also his first as a bona fide star and not a transitional heel champion.

Flair was a much more successful heel than Punk, and had way more longevity as a bigger name. In his prime only the top babyfaces would go over Flair and CM Punk was neither the top babyface, nor was he the badder villain.

Flair beats Punk, and might finally get his shot at winning this tournament.

 

[deem]

Voting Punk would be kinda absurd here. For the same reasons as El Santo had to beat Rocky in the first match in Mexico, for me it made sense for Punk to go over HBK to get him into the region final. He's had his moment, this is where it stops once more. To be in the final eight you need to be a SPECIAL guy. Let's look at the likely final 8.

Hulk Hogan - arguably most dominant ever, certainly #1 in the world 1982-1998
Bruno Sammartino - Again, undeniable #1 in the world for the 60s and 70s.
Andre the Giant - The greatest super heavyweight of all time.
John Cena - the ace of the past decade and face of modern wrestling
HHH - the top heel in the past decade, transcending eras.
The Undertaker - Most successful gimmick ever, one of the toughest in kayfabe and huge longevity
Sting - Top homemade WCW star, one of the better babyfaces of all time. At least a decade of main eventing; if you include TNA, close to two.

So the question is - do you think they should be joined by one of the best of all time in Naitch, a man loved and hated feverishly for well over 15 years in two huge companies. Or you want Punk, a main moderately successful in the heavyweight division for the past 5 years, becoming #2 in modern day WWE for the past two years?

This is really simple, it's the end for Punk and despite passionate support from Chicago, Ric has been there and done it in rivals territories many, many times. Plus Punk's only won 25% of the HiaC he's been in, and that was via massive interference from the referee when he looked beat.

What a fine final 8 we have shaping up.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

OMG look its chicago, its punkz town. Punkwins GTS!


Fuck Punk. His sloppy-ass flayling botching elbow and his average matches only saved by the electricity his opponents draw from the crowd ala Cena and Taker, as well as proper exciting ring performers like Orton and D.Bry have somehow made the IWC believe that he is actually 5-star in the ring. He ain't. Can he cut a promo? Smooth as a baby bottom. But is he exciting in the ring week in, week out? No fucking way. Alberto...YES! Alberto Del Rio is better in the ring than him. ADR is smoother, has way more finesse, does kicks beautifully and is actually fun to watch once the bell rings. But hey, I'm just a net smark who is just trying to act cool? I have been harping about him for 2 years now. How he rode Randy's coattails to be called the best match at Mania 27, and has been 'having great matches ever since'. I can't begin to dissect why it is, where he is and how much he isn't, and now against Ric Flair, someone who enthralled me at age 58 with his matches in the ring...ye fuck Punk!

Hey look ma! I'm old school!


Anyway, as it has been said, Flair has made his legacy by going to your town, bleeding like a stuffed pig, making you like a pot of gold, but leaving with the belt...and banging your mom.

Flair.


*Ahem*

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[LSN80]

Fuck Punk. His sloppy-ass flayling botching elbow and his average matches only saved by the electricity his opponents draw from the crowd ala Cena and Taker, as well as proper exciting ring performers like Orton and D.Bry have somehow made the IWC believe that he is actually 5-star in the ring. He ain't. Can he cut a promo? Smooth as a baby bottom. But is he exciting in the ring week in, week out? No fucking way. Alberto...YES! Alberto Del Rio is better in the ring than him.

I voted for Flair here, but this is just silly. When a guy is putting on good to great matches every time he steps in the ring, he's far more then 'average.' The fact that he has had really good to great matches with Orton, Bryan, Taker and Cena says that he's excellent in the ring. I've seen all four men, even Bryan, have matches that have been pretty freaking horrendous, and the fact that Punk has had great matches against four men with four completely different styles shows his versatility and his ability to adapt.

That's why this match wouldn't be a cakewalk for Flair. The voting is saying otherwise, but Punk would give Flair a run for his money. He's cleanly beaten John Cena twice, the face of the WWE for the past 8 years, so he would certainly give Flair all he could handle.

But hey, I'm just a net smark who is just trying to act cool? I have been harping about him for 2 years now. How he rode Randy's coattails to be called the best match at Mania 27, and has been 'having great matches ever since'. I can't begin to dissect why it is, where he is and how much he isn't, and now against Ric Flair, someone who enthralled me at age 58 with his matches in the ring...ye fuck Punk!

I don't know that you're a net smark, but you seriously underestimate Punk's ability and versatility in the ring. The fact that you can't figure out why it is that Punk 'isn't essentially all he's cracked up to be' shows that. He's not the best in the world, not of all time or even right now, but he's damn good and extremely entertaining in the ring.

As I said before, Flair wins this. Punk has been extremely unsuccessful in HIAC and Steel Cage matches, and Flair has beaten names decades apart. Flair wins this, but to suggest that Punk isn't up to giving Flair a run for his money is just silly.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

I voted for Flair here, but this is just silly. When a guy is putting on good to great matches every time he steps in the ring, he's far more then 'average.' The fact that he has had really good to great matches with Orton, Bryan, Taker and Cena says that he's excellent in the ring. I've seen all four men, even Bryan, have matches that have been pretty freaking horrendous, and the fact that Punk has had great matches against four men with four completely different styles shows his versatility and his ability to adapt.

Ah LSN, I think I missed jousting with you in another thread, but I'm glad we found each other here. If only you weren't married and living miles away....

Punk's performances are average. His matches are good because his opponents aren't. Lemme explain:
Recall the Wrestlemania 29 match. Remember Taker's sit up during the vice? Best moment of the night for me. What sold it? Taker's AND Punk's expressions. Expressions can make and break you in this business, during the promos and during the matches. He is one of the best I know. But his in-ring wrestling skills are sloppy. He isn't interesting and doesn't have fluidity in movement. You may think I just like 'dem flippy moves' but by fluidity, I mean Taker's punches over Billy Gunn's punches. Chris Benoit chops over CM Punk chops. There is a purpose and a certain finesse with impact. I blame CM Punk's current knee injury completely on him. Know why? He's sloppy. His elbow is sloppy. You have to navigate your body mid-air to hit the the table horizontely. His elbows are pathetic and he paid for it. I'll take Test's elbow all day. Bryan, Orton, Taker have amazing movement in the ring. There is a fantastic flow of speed and impact and they do it with a certain, and I say again, fluidity. I dunno if I can completely make you understand what I mean unless we sit down together and watch one of his matches.

Hope springs eternal...

That's why this match wouldn't be a cakewalk for Flair. The voting is saying otherwise, but Punk would give Flair a run for his money. He's cleanly beaten John Cena twice, the face of the WWE for the past 8 years, so he would certainly give Flair all he could handle.

He would. Definitely would. Punk is a formidable competitor after 2012. But Flair is a cool heel, whose whole prime was built around taking amazing amount of punishment, making your territorial hero look like gold...but leave with the strap.

I don't know that you're a net smark, but you seriously underestimate Punk's ability and versatility in the ring. The fact that you can't figure out why it is that Punk 'isn't essentially all he's cracked up to be' shows that. He's not the best in the world, not of all time or even right now, but he's damn good and extremely entertaining in the ring.

He is damn good. I concur but I have to say here that, I made a thread some 6 months saying why he ISN'T the best in the world, all because of the aforementioned reasons. He has a serious flaw in his repertoire. I have seen it, and once you see it, trust me, you see it a lot.

As I said before, Flair wins this. Punk has been extremely unsuccessful in HIAC and Steel Cage matches, and Flair has beaten names decades apart. Flair wins this, but to suggest that Punk isn't up to giving Flair a run for his money is just silly.

Again, Punk is now a prime player, but with the given conditions, Flair wins.

 

[Tastycles]

I like Punk, and I think Ric Flair is shit, but it's difficult to come up with a coherent argument to say why Punk should win. Flair made a habit of winning in cages, which is basically the same as this, and Punk's Hell in a Cell experience involves winning in a totally bullshit fashion against Ryback and a completely embarrassing defeat to The Undertaker, where he offered almost nothing. I have to, against the judgement I wish to show, give this to Ric Flair.

 

[CleverName51]

Ric Flair made a name for himself going from place to place and beating the home town hero in cages and other matches.

CM Punk...he's good, but he was a midcarder until pretty much the last 2 years...

I don't like Flair, I don't care for Punk...but Flair's gotta win this

 

[8thwotwATG]

Flair beats Punk here. As has been previously stated, Flair comes here and bleeds everywhere, makes everyone think Punk is going over, makes Punk look like the second coming, but ultimately, he leaves the cell the winner. Flairs' 16 titles, his longevity, his position as one of the greatest of all time, and, his penchant for winning these type of matches all contribute to a win for Flair here.