Does TNA Even Care Anymore?

[Poop Master Flex]

Does this offer show you that they care?

It still doesn't take care of the problem at hand. Its pretty much the same this as when a parent buys his kid a new bike because the parent screwed up in some fashion, its nice sure but it is a way for them to sweep the problem under the carpet.

I'm not blasting the fact that they are giving 6 months free subscription on TNADemand to people who ordered the PPV (not too bad a move i suppose) but they still got to take care of the problem at hand.

It's smart they gave fans something in return for that piss poor main event, but they still need to handle the situation. They only way to show the fans you truly care is to not put Hardy back on TV, they really just took the "give the fans something to shut them up" route which really fixes nothing.

 

[sfury2005]

Almost entirely the latter and virtually none of the former.

One of the great myths perpetuated by the people that tanked WCW was that Time Warner/AOL sold the WCW library and name rights to the WWF because they just didn't want wrestling on their networks. This is a narrative beautifully crafted to appeal to the professional wrestling fan, who is accustomed to people looking down on the particular form of entertainment. It wasn't the slapdash booking bringing progressively lower and lower numbers; it wasn't the absolutely insane amount of money WCW was losing every year, despite their high ratings- nope, it was a completely irrational decision made on the basis of a pre-existing bias by uninformed television executives that just didn't get it.

Either that, or the accountants with Time Warner/AOL looked at WCW, how much money it was losing, and how likely and how soon WCW could recover, then made the business decision to shut WCW down to stop losses.

One makes a good story, but has almost no basis in truth. One is kind of boring and doesn't require people to act with irrational emotion, but is a bit more accurate. Professional wrestling fans always seem to prefer a good story as opposed to an accurate one.

When Jamie Kellner canceled the WCW shows they were still the highest rated shows of all their shows. In 1998 WCW made over $50 million Dollars and was a cash cow for a few years around that time.In 1999 they lost about $15 million Dollars and lost $50 million dollars in 2000 but they were only 2 years away from being a cash cow making over $50 million a year.

Eric Bischoff's group had offered $60 million dollars to buy them and keep them on TBS and TNT. So had they sold them to Bischoff's group they no longer would have had the problem of the huge losses in revenue yet they canceled them anyway. Jamie Kellner's reason for the cancellation was that the WCW’s ‘viewer demographics’ were not favourable enough to get the ‘right’ advertisers to buy airtime. Sounds to me like he didn't want wrestling on his channels because he canceled his highest rated shows.

I don't like a good story I like truth and the truth is had they sold it to Bischoff's group they would no longer have been losing money on WCW and would have made $60 million off the deal. Then if WCW wasn't turned around it would have cost AOL/Time Warner nothing. Even after they canceled WCW programs Bischoff's group still offered close to $30 million dollars yet they sold only the library and trademarks to Vince for under $5 million and still had to pay the salaries of the stars who would have been sold to Bischoff's group. Sounds like they were very astute businessmen to me.. Yeah right that had to be the dumbest business move in history.

 

[Rayne]

When Jamie Kellner canceled the WCW shows they were still the highest rated shows of all their shows. In 1998 WCW made over $50 million Dollars and was a cash cow for a few years around that time.In 1999 they lost about $15 million Dollars and lost $50 million dollars in 2000 but they were only 2 years away from being a cash cow making over $50 million a year.

Says who? There wasn't much sign that WCW was turning itself around in 2000, they were a train wreck of memorable proportions.

Ratings are meaningless if your company is losing money. I'd also like to see where you're getting this $50 million dollar figure from, because I haven't heard anything even close to that before. Are you quoting revenue and not profit?

Eric Bischoff's group had offered $60 million dollars to buy them and keep them on TBS and TNT. So had they sold them to Bischoff's group they no longer would have had the problem of the huge losses in revenue yet they canceled them anyway. Jamie Kellner's reason for the cancellation was that the WCW’s ‘viewer demographics’ were not favourable enough to get the ‘right’ advertisers to buy airtime. Sounds to me like he didn't want wrestling on his channels because he canceled his highest rated shows.

Viewer demographics include audience numbers. WCW's audience was sinking. Advertisers don't pay for a declining audience- they put you over a barrel and extract a low rate from you because they have the leverage to do that when a show's numbers are declining.

This also implies that you trust Eric Bischoff at his word of being able to improve ratings and provide that advertising. How's that worked out for TNA, comparing now to 2009?

On that note, if WCW was secretly a success waiting to happen, why didn't Bischoff shop around his company to another television network? Professional wrestling itself was still hot in 2000, and there were other suitors interested. Remember that just a couple of years later, the WWF would sign with TNN (now Spike). It's easy to say "oh, those big TimeWarner/AOL meanies", but no one else wanted a grab at WCW as a business either. Without a network to host it, WCW was bound to fail, and networks were uninterested in purchasing WCW programming because no one thought they had a future.

I don't like a good story I like truth and the truth is had they sold it to Bischoff's group they would no longer have been losing money on WCW and would have made $60 million off the deal. Then if WCW wasn't turned around it would have cost AOL/Time Warner nothing. Even after they canceled WCW programs Bischoff's group still offered close to $30 million dollars yet they sold only the library and trademarks to Vince for under $5 million and still had to pay the salaries of the stars who would have been sold to Bischoff's group. Sounds like they were very astute businessmen to me.. Yeah right that had to be the dumbest business move in history.

How was that deal construed? How much of the money was up front, and how much of that money was deferred to be paid from future earnings?

It's easy to say "they offered $60 million". If the deal is for $2 million up front, and then 2% of revenue for X years, that's a lot shittier then $5 million in hand if you don't think WCW will last. (Very quick business math here- profit for most successful companies is around 5% of gross revenue, which can vary. You never ask for a cut of the profit, because, as they say in television, a percentage of net is a percentage of nothing. According to Hollywood accountants, "Titanic", the 2nd most successful movie of all time, lost large amounts of money. 2% of revenue is a reasonable amount for a company to ask for if they're supplying the means to keep your business alive.)

Again, it's fun and easy to believe that vindictive TimeWarner/AOL suits had it out for professional wrestling, and were willing to make insanely bad deals in order to part with it. It's a good story, but we are talking business here. Emotion doesn't work in business, especially when you have to explain to your boss why you left large amounts of money on the table because of it.

 

[sfury2005]

Says who? There wasn't much sign that WCW was turning itself around in 2000, they were a train wreck of memorable proportions.

Ratings are meaningless if your company is losing money. I'd also like to see where you're getting this $50 million dollar figure from, because I haven't heard anything even close to that before. Are you quoting revenue and not profit?

Viewer demographics include audience numbers. WCW's audience was sinking. Advertisers don't pay for a declining audience- they put you over a barrel and extract a low rate from you because they have the leverage to do that when a show's numbers are declining.

This also implies that you trust Eric Bischoff at his word of being able to improve ratings and provide that advertising. How's that worked out for TNA, comparing now to 2009?

On that note, if WCW was secretly a success waiting to happen, why didn't Bischoff shop around his company to another television network? Professional wrestling itself was still hot in 2000, and there were other suitors interested. Remember that just a couple of years later, the WWF would sign with TNN (now Spike). It's easy to say "oh, those big TimeWarner/AOL meanies", but no one else wanted a grab at WCW as a business either. Without a network to host it, WCW was bound to fail, and networks were uninterested in purchasing WCW programming because no one thought they had a future.

How was that deal construed? How much of the money was up front, and how much of that money was deferred to be paid from future earnings?

It's easy to say "they offered $60 million". If the deal is for $2 million up front, and then 2% of revenue for X years, that's a lot shittier then $5 million in hand if you don't think WCW will last. (Very quick business math here- profit for most successful companies is around 5% of gross revenue, which can vary. You never ask for a cut of the profit, because, as they say in television, a percentage of net is a percentage of nothing. According to Hollywood accountants, "Titanic", the 2nd most successful movie of all time, lost large amounts of money. 2% of revenue is a reasonable amount for a company to ask for if they're supplying the means to keep your business alive.)

Again, it's fun and easy to believe that vindictive TimeWarner/AOL suits had it out for professional wrestling, and were willing to make insanely bad deals in order to part with it. It's a good story, but we are talking business here. Emotion doesn't work in business, especially when you have to explain to your boss why you left large amounts of money on the table because of it.

From the book Between the ropes and I don't know their sources but they state WCW grossed approximately $200 million in revenue and a whopping $55 million in profit. Also according to Wikipedia in 1997 WCW made an announced profit of $50 million dollars. But according to Bischoff most internet numbers on loses are skewed or wrong because none of them saw the WCW books. I assume that could also be said about rumored profits.


Jamie Kelner evidently had to explain something and his bosses didn't like it because he was fired from AOL/Time Warner within 2 years. By the way he is also the man well known for saying if you use a DVR or something where you can skip commercials you're stealing the programming.

We all know that the WCW was messed up but fact is they were still doing around a 2.5 average share on Nitro going head to head with Raw and the right people could have maybe turned it around. Could Bischoff have been the right person? I don't know but the plan was to close down for a couple months and return with brand new shows with Johnny Ace as the booker of the shows. Who knows if it would have worked or not they didn't get the chance. A guranteed offer of $60 million dollars no matter how it comes in and the knowledge that AOL/Time Warner would no longer have to worry about the loses coming out of their profits should have made the deal work. Maybe they balked at the 10 year guarentee of 4 hours programming a week and that was the killer in the deal for them. But neither you or I can say what was in the offer because we weren't there so your assumption means little.

Kellner wanted to target a different demographic then the demographic that watched wrestling so as he wasn't a fan of wrestling he cancelled their highest rated show. That is a fact and as to why didn't Bischoff's group shop them to other channels? According to Bischoff they did and had FOX and NBC as possible affiliates. When Bischoffs group lowered their buying price due to the cancelation of WCW programming the deal didn't happen.

I'm done now as I'm not going to argue with you because you wont change my mind nor I yours no matter what is said.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Simply put, no. I don't think TNA gives a shit about the product or their wrestlers. Clearing Jeff Hardy for what could have been dangerous for both men involved told us that loud enough. Sure, they're sorry that the match didn't go on for 30 minutes, so they offer their On-Demand product (which features a product better than TNA will ever be again), but no. They're going to keep Jeff Hardy around, and put him in matches he shouldn't be wrestling, simply so the top guys in that company ("This isn't turning into WCW guys, we swear!") can say that they're involved in a nationally-aired wrestling promotion.

Kevin Kelly is right. If TNA truly did care, they'd fire Jeff Hardy as well as everyone involved with clearing him for the match, fire Hogan and Bischoff who seem hell-bent on turning TNA into the broken product WCW was, and start from scratch.