Daniel Bryan And Zack Ryder Need To Be De-Pushed

[ryan86]

AWB25MN:

I think I have to set the record stright on something that I said that has been mis-charcterized.

When you look at the part where I was referring to Dolph; I stated he was solidifing the U.S. Tile as legit, a testiment to how good he is. Bryan never made that title mean anything when he held it. And I sated I didn't like Dolph fueding with Ryder for the Title as he will bring NO serious legitimacy to it. I went on to state "Why can't he drop it to someone who can carry the mantle".

I am well aware that Dolph needs to drop the title, but why couldn't it have been dropped to someone that the WWE was planning on doing somthing with, and was beyond a short term merchandising gimmik.

If they want to play around with de-ligitimizing titles even more, Just for a couple months of merchandise sales, why not give him the WWE title? That would extend and explode his merchandise sales even more.

The point is, merchandise sales and legit future stars should be seperated when making decisions on title runs.

 

[GameOver]

AWB25MN:

I think I have to set the record stright on something that I said that has been mis-charcterized.

When you look at the part where I was referring to Dolph; I stated he was solidifing the U.S. Tile as legit, a testiment to how good he is. Bryan never made that title mean anything when he held it. And I sated I didn't like Dolph fueding with Ryder for the Title as he will bring NO serious legitimacy to it. I went on to state "Why can't he drop it to someone who can carry the mantle".

I am well aware that Dolph needs to drop the title, but why couldn't it have been dropped to someone that the WWE was planning on doing somthing with, and was beyond a short term merchandising gimmik.

If they want to play around with de-ligitimizing titles even more, Just for a couple months of merchandise sales, why not give him the WWE title? That would extend and explode his merchandise sales even more.

The point is, merchandise sales and legit future stars should be seperated when making decisions on title runs.

and who would that be? Money is what makes the world go round, you know that right? any way to make a quick buck is better then throwing away money or something that may or may not pan out. This isn't the attitude days where they had no choice but to take big risks.

Anyway, so you know the people behind the scenes do you? you know what they are really thinking (not what's posted on spoiler sites, that have no validity or using common sense) and how do you know they see him as only a short term fix. They may seriously think Ryder will be a big thing since he trends on social media and who they aim at is the Social Media generation. Giving him the world title is totally rediculous, now you are just trolling for the sake of trolling. He's a believable IC/US title holder or a tag title holder

Lastly how can they de-legitimize the titles anymore then they already did? least the IC/US titles get defended semi regularly now, and once again WHO SAIS HE'S GONNA WIN.

 

[awb25mn]

When you look at the part where I was referring to Dolph; I stated he was solidifing the U.S. Tile as legit, a testiment to how good he is. Bryan never made that title mean anything when he held it. And I sated I didn't like Dolph fueding with Ryder for the Title as he will bring NO serious legitimacy to it. I went on to state "Why can't he drop it to someone who can carry the mantle".

Ok, I'll agree with you that Bryan did nothing for the title and Dolph has done much for his career and status with that title. You can't say that Ryder will bring no serious legitimacy to it. The only way to find out is the put the title on Ryder and see what happens. It will be interesting to see how Ryder does with it....

I am well aware that Dolph needs to drop the title, but why couldn't it have been dropped to someone that the WWE was planning on doing somthing with, and was beyond a short term merchandising gimmik.

So if Ryder doesn't get it, who should? A face R-Truth?

If they want to play around with de-ligitimizing titles even more, Just for a couple months of merchandise sales, why not give him the WWE title? That would extend and explode his merchandise sales even more.

I'm pretty sure if Ryder got the WWE title anytime soon these forums would self destruct

The point is, merchandise sales and legit future stars should be seperated when making decisions on title runs.

I see your point and Rhodes has made a name for himself in the ring and not on twitter or youtube. Ryder is one of the most popular guys on the roster right now and he has earned the right to take the next step. At the end of the day, WWE needs to build for the future and Ryder has come a long ways from being one of edge's henchmen to now being a popular face. The only way to find out if Ryder is legit is to push him and see what happens

 

[CH David]

I can't believe this thread got to seven pages.

I've only gotten to two pages.

People! QUIT COMPARING RYDER TO CENA, IT COMPLETLY MAKES EVERYTHING ELSE YOUR SAYING HARD TO FOLLOW!

Please, please, please, PLEASE be talking to me. Either way, I'll post what I said, regardless if you were referring to me or not.

Ryder is getting big reactions when he comes out, crowds are behind him. Who cares if his character is what it is? What if years down the line he becomes something different? I mean he could become huge under a different character. John Cena was a rapper now turned "superhero". DO NOT mistake me. I AM NOT saying that Ryder will be the next face of the company. Merely showing that a gimmick change is possible down the line in his career.

There.

And If you think your going to shape this argument by stateing such outragous calims as "Bryan is the best in-ring preformer in the WWE" that is just as stupid. IT'S TOTAL LIES!!!!

Fuck it, I'm going to give you shit for spelling now. What's a calim?

Daniel Bryan is the best from a technical standpoint. Now, that doesn't exactly mean a whole lot for a decent portion of people, nor should it. It's not like he is Chris Benoit who said he was the best damn technical wrestler today. Besides, the technical ability doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot because he doesn't show it off. If he was told to go out there and put on a clinic, he could. He isn't told to, so he doesn't.

Cody crushes him in every match. And he stomped him out and make Bryan look like a JOKE on SD. It was almost like Vince read this thread and Said, "Hey Cody, go out their and squash this crap".

El Oh El.

The way you talk about Cody crushing him it almost sounds like you believe it's real. Cody is made to look tough going into his match with Booker on Sunday. A defense against Booker, and likely a win, will help get him over even more. I hope you see where I'm going with this. Heels need to beat on people in their division to be taken seriously and to be legitimate contenders for titles. Hence he is legitimizing himself at the expense of Bryan on Friday, and likely on Sunday against Booker.

I hate talking about this part, why X beats Y, so on and so forth. Thank you for making me feel dirty, jerk.

I mean it completly solidfied what I'm saying. WWE has serious long term plans for Cody and it showed in the match. They made a point to say "this will settle it". And Cody stomped him out like a jobber...CLEANLY. Thats how the WWE views this. They completly satisfied my arguments. Cody is the most over heel on SD behind Henry and is getting the "special attraction" match for TLC. I'ts clearly the number 3 match (#2 for SD) on the PPV, Right behind both HW Title matches.

Has anyone said that the WWE doesn't have plans for Cody? It's been four and a half years since he debuted with the E. I think it's about time he has been able to settle into something that he can own. Daniel Bryan has only been with the E since '09, starting with NXT. The guy has talent, and given the right circumstances can get a crowd going very well. I'm not saying the guy will carry the company because he won't. But he will be a damn solid performer and most people will enjoy the work he does.

Now, before you start thinking "LALALALALALALA YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO READ WHAT YOU'RE SAYING!!!" answer me this. How sure are you that the WWE won't have something for Daniel Bryan or Zack Ryder in the future? What makes you so sure of this? Because Cody was dominant over Bryan? Because Ryder's popularity will "burn out"? What exactly goes through your mind with this?

Ryder will go as far as he can. He's not going to be taking the crown as face of the company. Hell, it won't even amount to a WWE Championship in the near future. If his character changes or is able to develop properly though, he can be one of the guys that helps push the WWE forward. A piece to the puzzle if you will. Same thing goes for Bryan, except he could win the World Heavyweight Championship due to the Money in the Bank briefcase. Note that I said could not would.

Both men are pieces of the puzzle for the future of the WWE. Ryder is only 26, same with Rhodes. Bryan is 30, and Ziggles is 31. They all have plenty of time to become staples of WWE programming. Ziggler and Cody are already well on their way to that. Ryder needs the opportunity which he is receiving now, and Bryan just needs to develop his character.

 

[awb25mn]

Both men are pieces of the puzzle for the future of the WWE. Ryder is only 26, same with Rhodes. Bryan is 30, and Ziggles is 31. They all have plenty of time to become staples of WWE programming. Ziggler and Cody are already well on their way to that. Ryder needs the opportunity which he is receiving now, and Bryan just needs to develop his character.

Rhodes/Zigglers/Bryan/Ryder are the future of the company. We will see in the near future how Ryder does with his opportunity. Bryan not only needs character development, he needs to stop losing all the damn time. I have never seen a money in the bank winner lose SO damn much. How are we supposed to take him seriously when he is losing all the time?

 

[bxbigshow]

What I love about the IWC is crap like this...let's fast forward 5 years down the line:

If Zack Ryder became a major player in WWE and a guy that can solidly hang in the main events. 100% of the IWC would say "I told you so!" because guys like Ryan86 will slink away and never admit to prior statements.

If Zack Ryder dissolves into a tag-team title run with Robbie E at your local VAW Lodge, then 100% of the IWC would say "I told you so!". Because Ryder is in a position right now that can go down either path.

But I'll say this...if 5 years from now Zack Ryder is still a WWE midcarder, challeging for championships (US/IC/Tag) then I'd say "good job." He was on the verge of being released, he took to the internet to either: quicken that release or get noticed/used. And he got noticed/used.

He has secured himself a spot on the roster for the near future. He has broadened his fanbase to make him valuable enough to be featured. How can any wrestling fan be upset with this?

He may never be "the face" of the WWE. But when John "Ruthless Aggresion" Cena slapped Kurt Angle, did you see that man as the guy who will carry the 'E' for the next decade?

He can easily fade away and be left in the "could've/should've" section of our collective conciousness. But remember how many people thought Ken Kennedy was going to be the next face of the company?

 

[ryan86]

Some of you just have this certain "idea" about me, and it ruins your ability to read what i actually say and keep it in context.

I am at a disagreement on how Ryder and Bryan are being used. I dont have to know anyone at WWE to feel that way, and no I dont care to read any spoilers or "inside" info, as after 15 years of being a fan, and 11 of those studying the WWE as a business, and Economics as part of my degree (I live and breath this stuff), I have a lot of foresight into how things should be done correctly. I picked stars WAY before they got over or got a push. And i have picked stars that were getting pushes and called future stars, and pointed it out as complete indiference to reality. I have been right 95% of the time.

I am a fan of the NBA (just as much as WWE) and i comment on how to strategize line-ups all the time.

Point is, I'm very involved in everything I love. I love you guys... well in a "thank you for the cruel messages" type way...

Joking aside, I know most of you can understand.

 

[CH David]

Some of you just have this certain "idea" about me, and it ruins your ability to read what i actually say and keep it in context.

Okay, I'll go back to your original post. Though after I finish this, I'd appreciate you actually quoting me and telling me exactly what you mean.

Please people, read and learn. Then controll yourselves, OK?

Let's see where my ability to read went away.

As participants on RAW and SD, they are not complete jokes. But the idea of pushing them the way that they are, is by far a joke.

So in their current gimmicks, they are a joke? I want to get this right.

Having them on the same stage as Dolph and Cody is laughable enough. Presenting them as equal opponents... thats booking malpractice.

Ryder is completely unserious and doesnt bring any value to a potential U.S. title run. Dolph is a huge part of the future and could be solidifying the U.S. title as once again relevant. Why not have him turn it over to somone who can carry that mantle?

I'm just going to assume you mean their current gimmick, and return when you quote me.

Ryder may not be a serious guy in character, but it's obvious the guy is serious about being a professional wrestler. Why would he have made his youtube show and done his damndest to get noticed by fans? Just to do it?

Also, who right now is good enough to take that title from Ziggler? Ryder can use the match as a building block, and also be a defending champion. Thus the title remains relevant. Who cares if a guy carries the title but barely defends it? Doesn't add/keep any relevance at all.

Bryan tries to play off this "blue collar", hard working underdog. Thats fine if they keep him relegated to the TLC type matches, but presenting him as a future heavyweight champ is beyond any ability to suspend dis-belief. Puting him in matches with Cody really had me thinking "WTF!" Cody will be a huge key to any sucess of a new era and he has to be protected. Bryan and Ryder are experimental stars who will be afterthoughts in 9 months

Rey Mysterio is a former World Champion. I think if he can be one, Bryan can eventually be one. Key word there, eventually. I must ask why he has to be relegated to "TLC type matches". Is it his size? Or is it that his character of the happy go lucky underdog just doesn't work for you? What exactly doesn't work?

As far as being afterthoughts in nine months, the WWE must think highly of both, one for John Cena to help Ryder get his match at TLC against Ziggler. Cena is the face of the company, and gave up his chance to go for a WWE Championship...for Zack Ryder. How often does that happen? Bryan was fired and brought back a few months later. He won the US Title a month after his return, and is currently holding the MiTB briefcase. How often does that happen for "experimental stars"?

I am at a disagreement on how Ryder and Bryan are being used. I dont have to know anyone at WWE to feel that way, and no I dont care to read any spoilers or "inside" info, as after 15 years of being a fan, and 11 of those studying the WWE as a business, and Economics as part of my degree (I live and breath this stuff), I have a lot of foresight into how things should be done correctly. I picked stars WAY before they got over or got a push. And i have picked stars that were getting pushes and called future stars, and pointed it out as complete indiference to reality. I have been right 95% of the time.

You can say that all you want. Nobody here gives a shit because we don't have facts of what you've said to yourself and your friends.

I am a fan of the NBA (just as much as WWE) and i comment on how to strategize line-ups all the time.

Point is, I'm very involved in everything I love. I love you guys... well in a "thank you for the cruel messages" type way...

Joking aside, I know most of you can understand.

The rest of this is useless. You don't do any of that commenting on the NBA on the forums, so again, nobody gives a shit.

 

[ryan86]

CH David:

I am not going to quote you, B/C i am having a conversation WITH YOU. NOT ANYONE ELSE... at the moment. (It keeps this an A and B conversation)

You know what you have said and i will give a generic responce to adress everything.

Everthing that is being done for Ryder is in complete concert with merchandise selling. But I have a big problem with them mixing that with someone the WWE see's a good 5 years of investment in with Dolph.

Ryder is like the Wallmart employee who was going to get fired for taking time off to be with her injured son, coming home from Iraq. So what does the emplyee do? Go to the MotherFricking media and push that sob story. The public gets behind the employee and forces Wallmart to reconsider. The employee is now a media-made-maurter, that everybody is sooo happy about. But does that qualify the employee for a push to admin?

Bryan is an even worse scoundral. He is the employee that cant see why he has no charisma or personality and thinks hard work earns you something. NO

 

[RKOPUNK]

Oh Ryan86, like the one ******ed kid in every classroom, you continue to amuse me with the shit you say. Seriously, all of your threads are complete shit. You have a guy who is brilliant in the ring, and one who is mega over with the fans, and you want to de-push them both? This is almost as ridiculous as your thread about how CM Punk should be fired.

Just because you don't like them, doesn't mean they should be de-pushed. If someone made a thread saying Cody should be de-pushed, based on the fact that they didn't like them, how fucking ridiculous would you think they were? Probably just as ridiculous as everyone thinks you are.

 

[CH David]

CH David:

I am not going to quote you, B/C i am having a conversation WITH YOU. NOT ANYONE ELSE... at the moment. (It keeps this an A and B conversation)

But...quoting makes sure it is an A/B conversation.

You know what you have said and i will give a generic responce to adress everything.

Fair enough. I just like to make sure I have the facts with these things.

Everthing that is being done for Ryder is in complete concert with merchandise selling. But I have a big problem with them mixing that with someone the WWE see's a good 5 years of investment in with Dolph.

But the dude was a tool when he was a member of the Spirit Squad 5 years ago. Then he just went around telling everyone "Hey, I'm Dolph Ziggler" before doing anything relevant. Sure now he is at the cusp of the main event, and likely getting a big push towards it, but back then, the guy was just like Ryder.

Ryder is like the Wallmart employee who was going to get fired for taking time off to be with her injured son, coming home from Iraq. So what does the emplyee do? Go to the MotherFricking media and push that sob story. The public gets behind the employee and forces Wallmart to reconsider. The employee is now a media-made-maurter, that everybody is sooo happy about. But does that qualify the employee for a push to admin?

This is a horrible example. For one, it's complete bullshit if your employer is going to fire you for taking time off. In fact I think that falls under wrongful termination, and she would in fact be able to sue them for that. Second, it wouldn't be her fault for wanting to take time off to be with her injured son. Now if she constantly called in then that's understandable. But if she took the time off and her employers understood, it would be bullshit to fire her.

As far as this comparison to Ryder, sure he went to youtube and made his show. But that doesn't mean much actually. It has given him life and he is now being given an opportunity. What matters is what he does with it. If he sinks, then so be it. But at this moment, he is doing his best to grab a spot and run with it.

Bryan is an even worse scoundral. He is the employee that cant see why he has no charisma or personality and thinks hard work earns you something. NO

I get that you are aiming for the "It's not what you know but who you know" schtick. But Bryan knows a few guys that can have pull in the WWE. For instance, HBK and William Regal. Regardless of that fact, the guy needs a true character to develop. Since he came in I haven't really heard much about him other than being a submission specialist. I say you give him development and direction and he can be just as important a piece as any other to the puzzle.

 

[ryan86]

CH David:

Just throwing this in; When you have 50...80...or 200 post flying at you, as i have in 3 of the threads iv'e started, it help to respond quickly to keep the argument from being shaped by others. This gains you alot of admiration and respect. I even have a nich following with topics about Ryan86 popping up on the spam forums. (Shout out, I love you too... CocoTheMonkey and the rest)

You see, in order to respond to everyone to keep them involved, I also have to respond very "genericly".

And as for the story, it's a true one. Hapened here in the Dallas area.

Also, most are concedeing my point on Bryan having the MItB. You have accidently done so yourself. If he needs further development, then he damn sure better get it before he wins MITB right?...I guess you call that being... de-pushed?

 

[Maestro48239]

Wow!! this has been one wild read! the main Character (Ryan86) has shown everyone his ability to swing lips first from Cody Rhodes' nutsack. he has shown everyone his ability to twist other's comments to try an put himself over as a self-proclaimed wrestling genius.

I guess I'll toss in my 2 cents.

we have 4 wrestlers, Rhodes, Ziggler, Bryan, and Ryder. 4 people with characters all their own.

Rhodes - a crybaby heel 2nd generation wrestler with great ring ability and kinda shaky mic skills at times.

Ziggler - a cocky mid-carder that had the unfortunate luck of being associated with the spirit squad and having shit dumped on him. he's come a long way.

Bryan - his gimmick, is that he has no gimmick other then the fact he was an incredible indy wrestler and had legendary feuds and matches that could outshine most anything that the WWE puts out today. the guy is gold whether you see it or not.

Ryder - a clown of a midcarder that was on the verge of getting fired before He repackackaged and made himself way more relevant then most wrestlers today. his show is actually pretty hilarious. he has the ability to put himself over as he mocks himself. gotta give him a lot of credit for that!

Ryan, you state that you've been a real wrestling fan for 15 years right? I've been watching wrestling since the early 70s. way before the age of cable and PPV. that gives me 25 more years, give or take, then you as being a wrestling fan.

what makes me different then you, is the fact that I dont try and put myself over as the guru of wrestling. I learn a lot from reading these forums, and sometimes if I can offer some facts that people dont know, well I do. and I try not to be a fucking assclown about it...unlike you.

there are some serious flaws with your argument, mainly your biased opinion of Cody Rhodes. he's a great wrestler I'll give you that. so is Ziggler, I'll also concede that fact.

but for you to say that Ryder and Bryan will never amount to anything because of your personal dislike for them is pretty asinine. it actually makes you sound a LOT like Michael Cole's heel persona. is that what you are trying to accomplish? to be the biggest loudmouth heel on the WZ forums? if so you got it going on!!

oh also....you stated that Rhodes constantly stomps the shit out of Bryan, but didnt Bryan make him tap like a bitch in that fatal fourway a few weeks ago to get the shot at Henry in a cage? maybe you just forgot that.

anyways... great thread, been a ton of laughs. I'll be watching you from now on, you're as amusing as hell!!!!!

one thing though, before you post your rants about how smart you are, use a spell check.

 

[Ry.the_Stunner]

What is it with the fascination on merch sales? Ryder is not a part of the WWE's main event future. PERIOD! CODY IS.

Sorry, but this made me laugh. Are you serious?

The fascination with merch sales is...the WWE is a business. They are there to make money. Merchandise makes money, thus...high-sellers of merchandise are going to get pushed. It's a very simple concept.

I don't think anyone is saying Zack Ryder is Main Event material and is even a great wrestler, but there should be no confusion as to why WWE is pushing him.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Ryan86: First of all I have to say that I've been frequenting this forum for years and you are the only person who stands out as logical and an actual fan of wrestling.

I agree that Ryder getting the belt is too early. People forget that the U.S. and IC belts used to mean something. Sure the fans are behind him because people follow trends. Sure he sells a lot of merchandise. Sure he is decent in the ring. Bottom line Ziggler is a better wrestler. I fully believe that if there was a twitter or facebook survey to determine who gets the belt, that Ryder would win...but that's not how it's done. It's done in the ring and Ryder can't believably beat Ziggler.

As for Daniel Bryan. He is a great wrestler yes. He is also one of my favorites at the moment. But I can't see him as a credible champ for the simple fact that he's 200lbs(if that). I have this same problem with CM Punk except for the fact that he is fighting other small guys too. I'm all for Bryan being the champ in a different division for smaller guys. Just like Anderson Sylva in the UFC. He is the most talented fighter I've seen and his the best in his weight class by far. Would he be as successful fighting heavy weights? Not likely. Is his title's value diminished by the fact that it's middleweight? No. He is still the champ. Daniel Bryan could be the champ of other people his size. John Cena is my all time least favorite wrestler of all time and I hate seeing the belt on him, but at least I can believe him as champ because he is big and powerful. I used to hate The Rock back in his day because he was always against my favorite wrestler, Triple H. But I could believe him as champ. Now you see the small guys on top where as the big guys who actually have the ability to toss them around are lower on the card.

The real problem is that WWE pushes too hard to make champs and as soon as someone starts to get over, WWE creative and the IWC think its time to hand them the damn belt. I'm sorry but I don't care how many people chant your name or buy your t-shirts. That should't qualify you as a champion. If that's the case then the WWE might as well just get rid of matches altogether and just have fans text to vote on champions. And don't get me wrong. It's not all about size and strength. I still think you need skill and charisma, but twitter following, fb friends, and merch sales shouldn't make the champ. I also think the belt shouldn't be used to push someone either. That's stupid. Let them get over first and then have them in the main event and then win the belt if they deserve it. MITB is overdone and a dumb concept. For one it's a match usually full of mid carders and the winner is practically guaranteed a belt. If the only way you can book a superstar as winning a championship is to have them attack someone after a match to win, then how am I expected to believe them holding the belt?

Lastly, yes I know it's a business. I understand merch sales makes them money. But first and foremost it's a show. Without the show there is no business. The show isn't as entertaining because the WWE is forgetting that and focusing too much on social media and merch sales. I see the fact that ratings are low brought up often(esp by Ryan86) and people(ironically the same people who argue the importance of merch sales) argue that the ratings shouldn't matter to us because its a business and its not something we should concern ourselves with. What people fail to understand is that it's not the numbers themselves that these people are concerned with. It is in fact the entertainment value of the show. The ratings reflect the viewership of the show. The show is clearly not as entertaining because less people are watching, and of those that are, less stay tuned in. So when people argue that ratings are low, don't be a dumb ass and argue that they should worry about entertainment. They are worried about entertainment and use the ratings as evidence that the entertainment has gone down.

 

[CH David]

And as for the story, it's a true one. Hapened here in the Dallas area.

Please provide a link for me to read. I've searched for it and can't find anything about it.

Also, most are concedeing my point on Bryan having the MItB. You have accidently done so yourself. If he needs further development, then he damn sure better get it before he wins MITB right?...I guess you call that being... de-pushed?

Not necessarily. Look at Jack Swagger. The guy won MiTB after barely doing anything for the previous like five months. Horrible example as success goes, but he is an example of getting the briefcase without development. CM Punk was just a mid-card face when he won MiTB for the second time, and when he cashed in on Jeff Hardy, was able to turn full heel during the feud, WITH character development, and become one of the most hated men in the WWE. Besides, having a lack of character development while having the briefcase and having multiple attempts doesn't mean you need to halt a push. It means you need to develop the guy. His original promo about cashing in at WrestleMania still leaves plenty of time for him to develop if they choose to go that route.

 

[ryan86]

Maestro:

You Think this thread was amusing? Go Check out the "CM Punk Has Got To Go" thread, Or the "Sane Mans View On Punk's Title Win". They got 220+ and 50+ replies respectivly. Those were wild rides for a read and now its happened again.

And you are a little late to the party on ragging on my spelling.

And I love replies like yours B/C it was actually interesting as hell to read. With most, it's just the usual "your an idiot" post, but you went into some good depth on your experience. I like that.

Look, bottom line is, I like who I identify with. That is how most people end UP preferring a wrestler. I look at Rhodes and i guess i just say "FINALY!", someone who I can identify with. Not the lepracon crap from Bryan or the jersey shore rip off (very cheap) like Ryder, but a cool and confident, well dressed guy with a flashy personality.

And CH David: I love reading your stuff as well. You are A GREAT GUY TO DEBATE WITH. You are nooooooo dummy. THAT SOOOOOOOO REFRESHING.

 

[Best in the World 79]

Ah, Daniel Bryan? NO. The guy has fan-fucking-tastic. And i mean fantastic in ring abilities. His entrance and character is pretty boring tho. Probably not his fault. then again, it may be. But de-push? Fuck no. If rey mysterio's ass can be HW champion, then daniel bryan should as well. Way more credible imo. He should be on a roll tho to look credible. Don't i remember him constantly losing after winning mitb? WWE makes no sense on shit like this. It's like kane coming back in 02 looking like a bad ass, then doing a "kanearooni." It just ruins the shit, man.

Zack Ryder. Yes. And soon. The crowd chants they want him, yet alot of the times when they do, he is so over exposed. He is no cena. he is no rock. he is no punk. he is no austin. What's the shit about the future being on him i've been reading around about? His left eye bothers me alot and he is a jersey shore type guy so instantly cannot take him seriously. My only memory of ryder ever is getting chokeslammed through a table by taker at one night stand 08

Build bryan. Chill out on ryder. It's that simple. Ryder is okay enough for us title. But if he is ever heavyweight champ, MR PERFECT will come back from the dead and perfectplex that douche.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Please people, read and learn. Then controll yourselves, OK?

If your life had a face...I would punch it. Seriously, even when I agree with some of your points, you make it impossible for me not to hate you. Tone down the pretentious prick level a little bit and develop some damn humility.

As participants on RAW and SD, they are not complete jokes. But the idea of pushing them the way that they are, is by far a joke.

First of all, I think it's important that we separate Zack Ryder and Daniel Bryan. They are similiar in that they both lack a key piece of the puzzle, but on the whole are nothing alike. Ryder lacks any real ring ability, and has to be carried by decent workers or his real talent level becomes incredibly transparent. Bryan is the best real worker in the business today, but he has the charisma of a kitchen table. Batista is living proof that one can go the distance and lack ring skills (although he improved over time) and Benoit is...not exactly living proof, but proof enough that you can be a huge deal, and lack necessary mic skills. So to a point I agree, but the reaction Ryder gets, and the level to which Bryan performs makes them anything BUT jokes...

Having them on the same stage as Dolph and Cody is laughable enough. Presenting them as equal opponents... thats booking malpractice.

Chris Benoit could outperform, outshine, AND outsell Cody RHodes 6/7 days of the week. Daniel Bryan is a better worker now than Benoit ever became. That's not a knock on the Wolverine, that's a testament to Bryan's true ability inside the squared circle. Right now Cody might be the bigger star, but booked right Bryan could have the better future easily. I'm not going to push this, because your level of man-love for Rhodes is insane. Ziggler I agree on, but good god...

Ryder is completely unserious and doesnt bring any value to a potential U.S. title run. Dolph is a huge part of the future and could be solidifying the U.S. title as once again relevant. Why not have him turn it over to somone who can carry that mantle?

This point I actually agree. I'm not a Ryder fan, and I really want to push for legitimate stars holding the mid-card belts. But Ziggler barely, if ever focusses on the fact that he has the US title. Ryder desperately wants it. Right now, Ryder is HOT. I think by the end of 2012, all his over-hyped fan support will die, but for now giving him the title is a good idea.

Bryan tries to play off this "blue collar", hard working underdog. Thats fine if they keep him relegated to the TLC type matches, but presenting him as a future heavyweight champ is beyond any ability to suspend dis-belief. Puting him in matches with Cody really had me thinking "WTF!" Cody will be a huge key to any sucess of a new era and he has to be protected. Bryan and Ryder are experimental stars who will be afterthoughts in 9 months

Essentially, I agree that they need to de-push Ryder. If they want him to actually be successful, and not a giant flash in the pan, they need to slow things down. Having Cena out there hyping 4 different spots with him on one episode is just ridiculous... It's shotgun-style booking, which means temporarily effective, but with no real long-term solution. The kid is just not good enough, and I've never been a fan. It doesn't mean he can't get better though...

I just don't think you understand the hidden potential in a guy like Bryan. It's all about the booking, and it needs to be done specifically. He's a guy that could be an effective World Champion, but not for awhile. Certainly not at this year's WrestleMania... To your original point, yes he needs to be slowed down. But he's not really that hot at the moment. He's winning matches, and building up a reputation... They're not really shoving him down our throats, and I'm ok with his spot within the company. Cashing in the MITB might make me think otherwise...

 

[ryan86]

Mike"The Kid"Killman:

Either you are just disagreeing B/C you want to get in on the "rip up Ryan" party, or You are agreeing with my main points in the most reluctant way you possably can, to not hurt your rep power... or something.

-Ryder needs to be de-pushed (slow it down)
-Bryan has the charisma of a kitchen table and needs some slower development. That is a second de-push.

Wow, you agreed but in order to save face you resorted to immature flaming. You know, I maintain a lot of respect through the consistant respect of my convictions, not pandering. We can have a really good debate based on opinions. And you are a prime example of why I ask people to "controll themselves". After trying to open up a financial debate asking posters to corrolate the key business indicators with the wild claims of Punk being the next SCSA, I found out quick what the maturaty level of this board was.

Some last insight for you, this Ryder thing is ending the second he wins that title. And Bryan has no long term future.

 

[Skinsley]

You have got to be kidding me! This acting like the bigger man routine is not working on me.
You claim Mike ‘The Kid’ Killam has resorted to immature flaming and yet you yourself make the assumption that the man holds back to save face and keep a “rep Power”.
Telling people they should “control themselves”, how pretentious who do you think you are?
The most annoying thing about you is not that you clearly know very little about pro wrestling, regardless of your claims. But this false persona that you give off when you attempt to slot a few words into your sentences to make yourself sound intelligent.

Your Cody Rhodes fetish is somehow dominating your judgement and making you blind to the rest of the stars around him… many of which are vastly superior in both ring and mic work.
Slowing down a push is not a De-Push…. It’s just slowing down a push…it’s still a push.
The majority if not ALL the people who have replied to this thread have shown no indication that they believe Cm Punk is the next Stone Cold Steve Austin… the comparison is that Cm Punk is…or was feuding with the BOSS, which SCSA did during his stint at the top of the WWE ladder, a comparison which should then almost inevitably be discussed. That is all. Any other speculation has been hyped by Joey Styles and his WWE.COM cronies for Marks like yourself to eat up.

Cody Rhodes and Dolph Ziggler have been in the WWE for years, they have used different gimmicks and in Dolphs case, have used different names and have changed dramatically since they first debuted. Cody and Dolph both wallowed in the Mid-Card and Jobbed and were given rubs off the likes of Randy Orton in order to get themselves recognised and made relevant. Both took a damn long time and survived many feuds in order to polish their in ring ability and mic work in order to climb up the ladder to the Upper Mid card and soon Main Event where they will undoubtedly be by this time next year MAXIMUM.
Daniel Bryan has shot up the ranks faster than this WHY?
A.) Daniel Bryan is already a far superior mat technician and did not need nearly as much time and effort to transition into the WWE’s style of work.
B.) WWE is in a transitional period where they have realised that they no longer have some of their biggest stars and they need to establish some new ones PRONTO… the only way they can do this is to test the waters with their current crop to see who can make it at the top. Someone in the boardroom has noticed something in Daniel Bryan and eventually he will get his shot.
You do remember that Dolph Ziggler was very briefly HeavyWeight Champion and Vickie was trying to assist him to becoming the champ for quite a while?

Onto Ryder….. face it, the man brought it all on himself. He isn’t that good on the Mic, he isn’t that good in the ring….. but the crowd EFFIN loves him and that’s pretty much reason #1 he is getting the push that he is.
He is focussed on the US title and he WANTS IT….. this more than anything will make the mid card title relevant again because Ryder will have title feuds and give a damn about it! Ziggler is still Ziggler with or without the title…and the same goes for Rhodes.

#HEEL are you serious bro?

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Ryan...I want to be the first person to eat my words. Both Zack Ryder and Daniel Bryan, just hours after I defended them, became champions. I don't really care about Ryder, because I still think his pop will fizzle out in due time, but Bryan is the one that needed a slower build. He needed the big Benoit-style push and feud with huge stars in order to get him over as a legitimate champion. Now he's the champion, and Henry isn't... Benoit won the Royal RUmble, switched brands, and defeated two of the all-time greats to win, and THAT legitimized him. Bryan covered a knocked-out Big Show... This is one time I think Money in the Bank is hurting the product, not helping it...

 

[Larry]

I'm not going to grill the OP, but I do disagree with his sentiments towards Daniel Bryan and Zack Ryder. I'll go as far as to even admit that I am not a big fan of Ryder and that I do understand his dislike of DB, he's not everyone's cup of tea. However, in the case of Daniel Bryan, like him or not he is one of the very best wrestlers in the world, legit. If you ask some people in the right circles they'll probably tell you that Daniel Bryan, NOT C.M. Punk is THE BEST IN THE WORLD, or at least at one time they definitely would have(ROH days). Zack Ryder is the new big thing. I'm not crazy about him but he is good at what he does as a character and makes up for what he lacks in the ring with that character. You can't argue with fan support and the fans have chosen Long Island Iced Z. Whether you like him or not, demand mandates that he be pushed. When you are that big of a merchandise seller, the WWE has no choice but to listen to the fans and put the spotlight on you.

 

[ryan86]

I dont want anybody to eat their words. NOW LET ME VENT!!!

I TOLD THE WWE TO SLOW THESE PUSHES DOWN!!!! (not litleraly told them)

Bryan is finished. I saw this crap coming. I aleady vented about this in the "TLC" thread. To win that way... then celibrrate infront of cole... while he just won in the cheapest way possible? NOT EVEN COLE COULD WIN CHEAPER! Bryan looks totaly hypocritical now! He is a workhorse who earns everything he gets right? Well the way he won blew that to peices? How could the WWE even have him in character while winning this way?

Ryder, im not that bothered with, other than it did Dolph NO favors, but it also didnt hurt the WWE with his win.

AND WHAT BOOKING SENCE DOES ANY OF THIS MAKE? Considering the winners...who can bryan face now? How can the WWE book something that doesnt go off the rails considering the outcomes? The only thing that make scence now is to have Cody Challenge him. AND I WILL QUITT WATCHING IF THEY EVEN DO THAT. CODY IS NOT READY! Dont ruin two carrers!

 

[Jaystrong322]

Maestro:

You Think this thread was amusing? Go Check out the "CM Punk Has Got To Go" thread, Or the "Sane Mans View On Punk's Title Win". They got 220+ and 50+ replies respectivly. Those were wild rides for a read and now its happened again.

And you are a little late to the party on ragging on my spelling.

And I love replies like yours B/C it was actually interesting as hell to read. With most, it's just the usual "your an idiot" post, but you went into some good depth on your experience. I like that.

Look, bottom line is, I like who I identify with. That is how most people end UP preferring a wrestler. I look at Rhodes and i guess i just say "FINALY!", someone who I can identify with. Not the lepracon crap from Bryan or the jersey shore rip off (very cheap) like Ryder, but a cool and confident, well dressed guy with a flashy personality.

And CH David: I love reading your stuff as well. You are A GREAT GUY TO DEBATE WITH. You are nooooooo dummy. THAT SOOOOOOOO REFRESHING.

Is there anyone else you wanna suck off in this forum or are you just going to go back to making threads that make no sense to everyone but you? BTW D Bry and Ryder are now holding titles and got the biggest pops of the night...so much for getting de-pushed.