Could Owen have potentially out-shined Bret as the King of Harts?

[It's...Baylariat!]

This a loaded question for many as many are fond of the legacy of Owen Hart. Some will say Owen only has an inflated legacy because of his tragic death. Let's speculate here - what if Owen doesn't have that tragic accident? What if he goes on to continue whatever feud he was in and proceeds in his career?

Was he destined to be a future WWE champion? Would he have only made it to the mid-card? Does he make the Attitude Era that much better?

What could have been with Owen Hart? Could he have surpassed Bret Hart's legacy?

 

[The IWC Butcher]

Owen was good but he didn't have that "it" factor like Bret.

Also Owen legit injured two guys with the same move...inverted tombstone On Austin which basically ended his wrestling career (Austin wrestled two years with the nagging neck) and he did the same to Dan Severn. I say this because Bret never injured an opponent and Bret had the ability to "make" guys. Owen Hart's best match was against Bret.

Bret has had many a great matches (my favorite against Austin, then Davey IYH, and Mr Perfect SS).

Owen was a great complimentary wrestler but not on the level to carry a company like Bret.

 

[The Brain]

I think it's pretty well documented that Owen was looking to retire from wrestling after a couple more years. He didn't seem to fit in very well with the attitude era in 1998 and 1999 and didn't seem to be enjoying himself the way he did during the new generation. I think Owen would have had a minor resurgence in 2000 when guys like Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, and Chris Benoit joined the company but I don't think he would have done anything major. Owen probably would have given each of those guys great matches while being used to get the new guys over. Once the roster became crowded with WCW and ECW guys in 2001 Owen would have quietly disappeared.

Also Owen legit injured two guys with the same move...inverted tombstone On Austin which basically ended his wrestling career (Austin wrestled two years with the nagging neck) and he did the same to Dan Severn. I say this because Bret never injured an opponent and Bret had the ability to "make" guys. Owen Hart's best match was against Bret.

Owen did not injure Dan Severn. That was all part of a storyline.

 

[Makaveli31]

It's tough for the younger sibling of two brothers in the business at the same time to step out from the older brother's shadow especially when the older brother is THE MAN and is top draw. His gimmick was basically "Bret's younger brother" whether feuding with him or allied with him.

I seriously doubt a WWF Championship was ever in the cards for Owen, and I don't think he really cared either. We all know he wanted to make money, save it and retire with his family. Backstage politics was never Owen's thing. His in-ring work speaks for itself though. Despite the Austin botch (I never heard of the Severn one) he is generally regarded as one the safest wrestlers.

His high-flying style as the Blue Blazer (In his early WWF days) and in tag teams with Anvil and Koko were way before his time and he had solid matches with just about everybody on the roster. True his best matches were with Bret but Bret was one of greatest of that era so that's a no-brainer.

I do think he has trouble finding his niche though. I think he was at his best as a heel working against Bret and then being a stepping stone (if you will) for Stone Cold. After Bret left the WWF he kind of floundered. First as the Blackheart, then being put in a lame tag team with Jeff Jarrett and wearing that ridiculous outfit. I would have liked to see him defeat HBK for the title sometime after Survivor Series' 97 then quickly drop it back but we knew that was NEVER going to happen.

 

[Pedigree1]

Man i really enjoyed The Black Heart Owen Heart! I did To me,he had more potential than Bret hart did more athleticism. But he didn't at least enjoy himself or have the it factor like Bret did. I think he did okay in the birth of the attitude era but really was just getting lost in the shuffle. Sure he might have had a charge with guys like Benoit,Guerrero,and Angle coming in 2000 but thats about it.

Its too bad IMO because i enjoyed Owen and I still feel for sure hes a HOF. He had potential and maybe if he had lived a short title run would not have been out of the question! RIP Owen this Fan still misses yah

 

[Owen 3:16 says I just stole your Slammy!!]

I'm a huge fan of Owen, I Love Owen to death. But, Owen would have not been the top guy like Austin, Rock, and HHH. He could of been a transition champion, but most likely be a mid carder and fighting for the IC or Tag belts.

Owen didn't want to be in the company, and he was looking forward on retirement to spend time with his family. In my opinion, Owen was a great wrestler and he had charisma. If Owen wanted to be the top guy and he had the power Bret had, he would of been successful as a top guy. He would of been great to see him have top feuds with Rock, HHH, etc for the belt.

 

[Nyce18]

My overall answer/opinion is no. In saying this, I also do not believe Bret to be nearly the greatness that so many people, including himself, have made him out to be. His in ring ability and technician was indeed good, if not great, but that is where the word great and bret hart in the same sentence end! He helped to carry a company through its low years when WCW was beginning to soak up WWE talent and run away with the ratings. Except he wasnt carrying the company anywhere at all, he was just carrying the title. He was average at best on the mic. Anyone who argues he had charisma is truly delusional or just runs with most of the IWC who hear the name Bret Hart and feel its part of their duty to glorify him beyond his actual worth. Any sort of charismatic behavior exhibited around Bret hart directly stemmed from the screwjob when people wanted to side with him because it was the sexy thing to do at the time. Im no hater tho im sure it truly sounds like I am. On the contrary, I appreciate the time Bret put in and what he gave us. I appreciate it to the point that I went and met him at a meet and greet because of my appreciation for his time and what he put in. And yes I also realize Shawn carried the title/company during the period I mentioned earlier, but no one can or will deny his charisma and in ring performing ability. he wasnt a bad promo either.. and im no die hard Shawn fan. Back to Owen Hart. He was everything Bret was but a little less on each account. Good/great ring technician but that was about it.

 

[Makaveli31]

I don't think anyone would argue that Bret was "great" on the stick. He was straight and to the point. He didn't need to be charismatic like Hulk or Shawn. That wasn't his style or persona. He was raw and that's what made him stand out. When he cut promo's it felt real. I don't this mic skills or lack thereof take away from his overall greatness.

 

[LascoX]

I doubt if Owen would have ever surpassed Bret's legacy. As has been noted he was looking forward to retiring and spending time with his family. In his book Bret even made mention of the fact that Owen was even a bit reluctant to go into wrestling but the money made it the favorable option to support his family. Also as was mentioned is that Owen wasn't comfortable with the attitude era. Part of the reason he was dropped down to the Blue Blazer angle was that he was turning down angles that he didn't feel comfortable with like a love triangle angle involving Jarret and Deborah. Had Owens life not come to a premature end I think you would have seen him serve out his contract with WWE and then possibly jump to WCW (assuming they had survived the war). Just seeing him doing the Blue Blazer angle had an air of midcard written all over it. When Owen first came to WWE Vince had him jobbing every match he was in and it seemed he might have ended his run with them in the same fashion just because he had an integrity to not make his family uncomfortable with controversial angles. Owen will always have a memorable place in peoples hearts though as the extremely talented and nice funny guy that graced the wrestling ring.

 

[STFU Donnie]

For me it's very simple and has nothing to do with whether Owen had "it" or whether he hurt people or if he could talk or any other subjective reading of his talent.

I'm going off every single book or shoot interview I've ever read or seen in which Owen is discussed by those who knew him best. The simple answer is no he could never have outshone Bret because he didn't care about "greatness".

Owen hated wrestling, hated the travel, hated Vince, WWE, and politics. He was in wrestling to make as much money as he could for his family and then get the hell out of Dodge. He spent all his time ribbing, goofing around, and thinking about his wife and kids. To eclipse Bret, Owen would have needed to not only love wrestling, but make it the singular focus of his life, he would have had to embrace even more travel and obligations, he would have had to think of Vince as his partner and WWE as his company, while maneuvering against all the other guys who want his spot. Owen would have had to be all business at the shows and now that he's responsible for drawing, the ribbing is done and no more goofing off in his house show matches. And Martha and the kids would have to be put on the back burner, as a secondary consideration.

If you look at every single WWE champion of all time, other than Sid who was a very "special" case, wrestling was their life. They wanted the pressure and the money and were ready to do whatever necessary to attain and keep the spot.

That wasn't Owen. Mick Foley and Jeff Jarrett were his closest friends and both have spoken and written extensively about Owen not caring for WWE and the Attitude Era and how he loved goofing around and as soon as he pinched enough pennies, he was going home to Martha, who has said Owen planned to retire once their dream home was finished, which was near completion when he died. Bret said that Owen constantly wanted to leave wrestling and would have preferred being just a fireman or teacher, but Bret convinced him to at least chase the money for awhile. At the end of the day, the guy they describe was never going to be a top guy or champion and certainly never would have surpassed Bret.

 

[Headman]

Owen's career was not on an up tick as some seem to remember. Owen had a clear vision of retiring sooner rather than later. He wasn't being pushed anywhere near the main event. In fact he was floundering so badly they strapped him with a comedic gimmick. Yes, he was going to receive and IC title push but let's not forget that the IC champion at the time was a cartoon pimp. I believe had Owen not died he would have continued to perform on the midcard for another couple years before retiring from the business altogether. I don't think Owen ever had the passion for the business that his brother Bret did. I think Owen saw it as the family business, but Owen at his core was a family man first.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

At the start of his career, yes Owen had far more potential than Bret did at the same stage. Everyone is saying that "Owen wanted out" but remember that Bret never wanted in to begin with... He drifted into wrestling whereas Owen had the focus early on, went to Japan and was quickly considered the top non-japanese junior in the world.

Bret over time found enthusiasm for the business and the road whereas Owen wanted to be with his family. You only have to read Bret's book to see Bret was ambivalent about family life, for Owen it was the driving factor.

Bret had time served and more charisma, when I say that I don't mean mic skill. What Bret had was an understanding of body language and how to use his look. The shades, pink and black and the hands out gesture made wouldn't have worked if he didn't. Owen didn't have that naturally, but was able to pick up enough to make the jealous little brother work, a role he had likely played at some point for real with 11 siblings.
Bret was a good looking guy who women would want and guys to be. I'd never call Owen ugly, but he didn't have that look or swagger so it was always gonna struggle compared to Bret.

What Owen had was an exciting ring style and consistency, when he orginally stepped up to work with Bret, he looked like he belonged but wasn't going to surpass. The win at WMX was more about Bret than launching him, but he took this and became a staple of the midcard for the remainder of his life. Before the screwjob Owen was where Bret would have been without the steroid trial. Had Vince not been indicted, Bret would have been the top midcard guy, the odd title shot but likely never won the gold, Davey would have likely got that spot.

So yeah, for a time Owen could have out-shined Bret but by the time Owen had his big solo debut at WM8 the dies that decided their careers were already cast. Vince was under investigation, the Warrior roid scandal was ready to pop and Bret and Davey were destined for Wembley. Owen had a great career until '97 and the last 18 months were professional and workmanlike. That sums him up... Model professional. Owen was somewhat responsible for Austin's injury, he had a "mental block" that he was gonna sit out not go to his knees. That was why Austin blamed him. The screwjob came weeks later and any chance of a fair shake in the WWF was gone. So he got his head down, did his job and waited for the day that never came...when he could go home£ By the day he went up to that catwalk, outshining his brother would have been the last thing the guy cared about.

 

[Kizzani]

As a person I liked owen hart as a wrestler he was the younger brother of bret and until bret was gone there would be know way to compare.

It all depends on what the truth really is, if Owen fell because he was in a hurry that tells me he cares little for following procedures, and would in time buck the system leading to his departure and now he would be a wash out in TNA. ( just my opinion)

 

[asiatic7]

Owen was one of my all time faves. In 1993-94 when he first turned heel, I believe he had everything going for him. Maybe this is a biased opinion, but he had far more charisma than Bret, he was a better wrestler and a high flyer. Owen was funny and better on the mic.

I don't think wrestling was something he wanted to do forever. He had plans of retiring and spending time with his wife and children, so...no he would have not out shined Bret as far as being a top dog, but he was out shining Bret in terms of in-ring action.

And Mr. Op... OWEN was the KING OF HARTS, not Bret. Good topic though.

 

[Owen 3:16 says I just stole your Slammy!!]

As a person I liked owen hart as a wrestler he was the younger brother of bret and until bret was gone there would be know way to compare.

It all depends on what the truth really is, if Owen fell because he was in a hurry that tells me he cares little for following procedures, and would in time buck the system leading to his departure and now he would be a wash out in TNA. ( just my opinion)

What does the fall have to do with this? Anyway, if he did hurry, he should not been up there in the first place. They should of gotten a better clip then a $68 hook that is used for speed boats then for human beings. Also, they should of gotten a professional, they hired a guy who claimed to be the guy who set up Sting, in reality this guy was not what he claimed.

Back to the wrestling, he wouldn't have been in TNA. He would of finished his contract with the WWF and retire with enough money for his family. If he did come back, he would probably make rare appearances when Bret came back.

 

[SaveUsCMPunk]

I always found Owen to be much more entertaining and charismatic than Bret Hart. He was also more fun to watch in the ring and better on the mic. How some people say Bret had "It", but Owen didn't is rather laughable. Owen held pretty much every other title but the WWF title. He had all the tools to be the top champion, but never got a chance. Whether he never wanted to be or politics played some role, I don't know.

Would he have surpassed his older brother? Probably not. Bret was a five time WWF champion. Had they not done that stupid stunt, he would've been IC champion again. I could've pictured him feuding with the likes of D'Lo Brown, Test, Edge and eventually Jarrett. I don't know if he would've ever been WWF champion as Stone Cold, The Rock, Triple H, Mankind and Kane were getting their chances during that time. His best shot of ever being WWF champion was back in '94 when Bret was champion but as we all know, Vince had other plans.

He was entertaining in the Attitude Era just as he was in the previous era. His time in the NOD, his tag team with Jarrett and his run as the Blue Blazer were all good. Go watch Owen give a promo as the Blazer in '98-'99. I'm not hating on Bret, (Although I do think some people rate him too high.) but I don't think he could be that entertaining.

Perhaps he could've been a commentator following his retirement from the ring? He did a pretty good job at King of the Ring '96.

 

[Wald]

No I don't think so.

Owen and Bret Hart are my two favourite wrestlers of all time and it can be argued that Owen had more natural talent than Bret in the ring for sure. Bret though had two things that Owen didn't have, Bret had an absolute love for the business and Bret had one of the greatest minds for in-ring storytelling ever seen.

Owen never seemed to love it in the way guys in that era like Bret and Shawn did. He could have reached their level had he, but I think he more saw it as a pay cheque to be honest

 

[IT Factor]

We have to define what you mean by "outshining". If you mean Owen was a more entertaining personality, definitely. Owen was much more charismatic on the mic than Bret and he seemed more natural talking than Bret. If you mean Owen had more technical ability, I don't believe so. Bret was a technician and the only thing Owen had going more than The Hitman was his high flying ability.

We also have to consider that other great talents like Mr. Perfect and Razor Ramon were never WWF Champion. So to use becoming world champion as your criteria is abit shortsighted. Owen was never a priority in WWF and I doubt McMahon would have ever utilized him or given him a chance to run with the title and see what he was capable of. Things between the Hart family & McMahon were never going to be the same after Montreal and Owen was a casualty of that event. Which was a shame because Owen was a gifted all around performer who could've been a big star in the future. Another issue was that Owen never found a true character niche and never got to connect with the audience the way guys like Austin & The Rock did. If he'd been put in the right role and given the opportunity, I have no doubt Owen could have been a great WWF Champion. Sadly, we'll never know.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I think that there MIGHT, and I do mean MIGHT, have been a chance for Owen to ultimately have a legacy comparable to Bret's if a few things were different. The most obvious one, of course, being that he hadn't died so young & prematurely. The other is if he'd have been pushed heavily into the main event picture during the Attitude Era & beyond and wracked up several substantial WWE and/or World Heavyweight Championship runs. However, Owen Hart getting that sort of a push during the AE was a long shot and a Hail Mary to the extreme. Even if Owen did make it to the WWE or World Championships during the late 90s through the early 2000s, I think he'd possibly still have to contend with a mixed legacy because, frankly, championships as a whole have never meant less in the history of WWE than during the Attitude Era where titles frequently changed hands more than one time in a single month. Such frequent title changes never hurt the legacies of Austin, Rock, Taker or HBK but, let's face it, I don't think hardly anyone can realistically say that Owen was ever remotely on the same level when it comes to star power during that time frame.

Owen Hart was a guy with a lot of talent but, in my opinion, that talent has been pretty heavily exaggerated via nostalgia. When it came down to personality, presence, and/or charisma from the late 90s to now; Owen just wasn't in the same league with guys like Austin, Rock, Taker, HBK, Triple H, Orton, Cena, Punk, Batista, Bryan, Ziggler, Jericho, or Lesnar. I'm not trying to make it sound like that he didn't have charisma or personality but I never saw Owen Hart able to rally people for him or against him at anywhere on the same level as most or all of those I named.

From the beginning of Owen's exposure on the much bigger stage of WWE, he was still looked upon as Bret Hart's little brother. I think it became something of a double edged sword, a mixed blessing if you will. Owen's most memorable feud will probably always be against Bret as will most of his most memorable matches. Ultimately, however, Bret came out on top when it truly mattered the most. Had Owen come out as the winner of their feud, maybe he'd be looked upon differently and may have been elevated to a much higher level before his passing.

I think that had Owen Hart lived and he hadn't retired in the next 5 years or so, I believe he MIGHT have been somewhere similar to Chris Jericho. I think he could potentially have been someone who could fit in well in the tag, mid-card or upper mid-card pictures while seamlessly flowing into the main event title scene from time to time and getting some World Championship runs under his belt.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I think that there MIGHT, and I do mean MIGHT, have been a chance for Owen to ultimately have a legacy comparable to Bret's if a few things were different. The most obvious one, of course, being that he hadn't died so young & prematurely. The other is if he'd have been pushed heavily into the main event picture during the Attitude Era & beyond and wracked up several substantial WWE and/or World Heavyweight Championship runs. However, Owen Hart getting that sort of a push during the AE was a long shot and a Hail Mary to the extreme. Even if Owen did make it to the WWE or World Championships during the late 90s through the early 2000s, I think he'd possibly still have to contend with a mixed legacy because, frankly, championships as a whole have never meant less in the history of WWE than during the Attitude Era where titles frequently changed hands more than one time in a single month. Such frequent title changes never hurt the legacies of Austin, Rock, Taker or HBK but, let's face it, I don't think hardly anyone can realistically say that Owen was ever remotely on the same level when it comes to star power during that time frame.

Owen Hart was a guy with a lot of talent but, in my opinion, that talent has been pretty heavily exaggerated via nostalgia. When it came down to personality, presence, and/or charisma from the late 90s to now; Owen just wasn't in the same league with guys like Austin, Rock, Taker, HBK, Triple H, Orton, Cena, Punk, Batista, Bryan, Ziggler, Jericho, or Lesnar. I'm not trying to make it sound like that he didn't have charisma or personality but I never saw Owen Hart able to rally people for him or against him at anywhere on the same level as most or all of those I named.

From the beginning of Owen's exposure on the much bigger stage of WWE, he was still looked upon as Bret Hart's little brother. I think it became something of a double edged sword, a mixed blessing if you will. Owen's most memorable feud will probably always be against Bret as will most of his most memorable matches. Ultimately, however, Bret came out on top when it truly mattered the most. Had Owen come out as the winner of their feud, maybe he'd be looked upon differently and may have been elevated to a much higher level before his passing.

I think that had Owen Hart lived and he hadn't retired in the next 5 years or so, I believe he MIGHT have been somewhere similar to Chris Jericho. I think he could potentially have been someone who could fit in well in the tag, mid-card or upper mid-card pictures while seamlessly flowing into the main event title scene from time to time and getting some World Championship runs under his belt.

I don't think nostalgia has enhanced people's views, I just think that most people never actually realized how good he actually was while he was alive. The "little brother" stuff was booked rather than people's perceptions. It's telling that his original Blue Blazer came when he was one of the top juniors out there and no one was the wiser that he was Bret's brother. When he did unmasked matches as he went by Owen James. It was WCW who first used him under his real name and when he came back he was always booked a Hart...Part of the New Foundation, The Rocket - there was no getting away from the fact he was Bret's brother.

Even if Owen had beaten Bret in 94, he would have lost to Diesel. Vince would always pick a big man over a small and Nash had the size without the roids. Good as Bob Backlund was in his comeback, I'll never understand why they did things the way they did. Owen should have been the guy to drop to Diesel, maybe not in 8 seconds.

It's kind of moot really as everyone who really knows states that Owen was gone as soon as he could be from the business. He was never going to be a Chris Jericho type who could drop in and out of the business, he was gonna go home and that was it. I could have seen him opening a wrestling school but from Martha's conduct in the years since his death, I think once Owen went home he was never gonna be allowed to go back without losing his family.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

This a loaded question for many as many are fond of the legacy of Owen Hart. Some will say Owen only has an inflated legacy because of his tragic death. Let's speculate here - what if Owen doesn't have that tragic accident? What if he goes on to continue whatever feud he was in and proceeds in his career?

Was he destined to be a future WWE champion? Would he have only made it to the mid-card? Does he make the Attitude Era that much better?

What could have been with Owen Hart? Could he have surpassed Bret Hart's legacy?

I was a little confused here at first, because the "King of Harts" era was quite a few years before his passing, but we're talking about if Owen would have surpassed Bret had he lived?

The answer is no. Owen didn't have the right personality to main event in the Austin/Rock era. Any other era, sure he could have succeeded. But at that point, no one was going to put someone like Owen on top at that time. Then again, if Bret hadn't already been a main eventer for a half decade at that point, he wouldn't have been able to break through to the top of the card then either. Unlike his brother, he also didn't have the drive to be that top guy. He was happy to work the middle of the card, make his money, and get out of the business relatively young.

But yes, he makes the Attitude Era better, every day and always. There were few people in the world that were better in the ring than Owen. Whether he would have just been doing cheesy comedy bits, or taking on a more serious character, his spots on RAW were always a bright spot.

In a sense, it's a shame he didn't take the business as seriously as his brother did, and didn't just look at it as a way to provide a living for his family. Owen was one of the most talented ever, and with Bret's drive, could have easily seen a better career right on the top of the card. Had that happened, he also never would have been in the rafters on that fateful night, because it never would have been needed from his character.

 

[HBsam31]

I liked Owen best when he was feuding with Bret in 94. There was a time I actually liked Owen more than Bret. I loved when Owen carried the Slammy awards around with him. I was actually pulling for Owen to win the cage match at Summerslam 94. For me though that was about it. I thought they made him into a joke with the Nation, wearing that stupid caution tape attire. The Black Heart gimmick was ok, but feuding with DX I don't think did him any favors because he was quite often just the butt of DX's jokes. It just doesn't seem like Vince took him seriously past his run with Bret in 94. We all know Owen wanted to retire young and enjoy his family, and damn I wish he would have decided to hang it up sooner. The Blue Blazer gimmick should have never even been a consideration at that point in time. All of this for me leads me to believe that no he would not have surpassed Bret. Vince just didn't seem to want to book him seriously enough for whatever reason. I always liked Owen a lot, but maybe he didn't have the drive to be like his brother Bret. I actually respect him for that. Wanting to be with his family is something he should have been proud of, but that being said he was never going to outshine Bret.