CM Punk is great! however he doesnt draw money!

[Slyfox696]

First of all, the home run derby thing is not an excuse. Its a fact that it hurt raws ratings.

Which is why I said it was a "fair excuse".

*resisting urge to insult your intelligence*

Wait till you see the ratings for that segment, and the first segment before you say he didn't draw ratings.

Yes, because the first and last segments never draw better than the rest of the show. Ever. Like every week never.

*urge harder to contain*

A 2.9 during a major sporting event is pretty impressive to me.

Except it wasn't a major sporting event, it did roughly 6 and a half million views. In comparison, last year's Monday Night Football game between the Patriots and Dolphins (just the first Google search return I found) did 13.9 million viewers in a blowout game. Raw did a 3.35 rating.

Obviously, this is just one example, but the point I'm making should be quite clear. The Home Run Derby isn't a major sporting event (considering Monday Night Football does double the viewership), and Raw has pulled better ratings many times before.

As I said, it's a fair excuse, but let's be realistic about it as well.

And as I mentioned before all of his normal sized (small - large) men's shirts are sold out on wwe shop.

That's great. If I had two shirts on sale, and they both sold, then 100% of my product would be sold out as well.

Do you have sales numbers?

So is it supposed to anger me that you usually aren't entertained by cm punk?

No, who the fuck said it would?

*it's like you're trying to get me unleash on you*

You also said he was awful as a face... I respect your opinion. I like to speak factually.

Factually, he was awful as a face.

And the fact of the matter is if you watch wrestlemania 23, he had one of the biggest pops of the night.

That's great, smarks popped for an IWC darling. What does that have to do with drawing?

You do realize pops and drawing are completely different, right?

Lastly, comparing CM Punk to Owen is stupid. They are nothing alike, not even close. What you meant to say is that CM Punk is like Jake the Snake Roberts. His promos and his use of psycology are right on par with Roberts.

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you incapable of reading? I never said he WORKED like Owen, I said his value to the company is similar.

Good God, learn to read.

Name one perrson besides Miz who's worked harder in the past year than CM Punk?

John Cena. Easy.

As for people not wanting to buy a ppv to see punk beat someones ass, wait till the buys for mitb come out.

Why do we have to wait? It's not like this is the first time Punk's been competing for a title. Let's have a look, shall we?

Night of Champions 2009: -6000 buys from 2008 (meaning NOC 2009 did 6000 less buys than 2008)

The Bash 2009: -18,000 buys from 2009

Extreme Rules 2009: Doesn't count, since he wasn't billed as main-eventer/title contender

Unforgiven 2008: +1000 from 2007 (WITH the debut of the Championship Scramble match)

Summerslam 2008: -60,000 buys from 2007

Great American Bash 2008: -33,000 buys from 2007

Now those are the ones I could find in which Punk was champion or was about to become champion. I'm not sure if he was in the main-event/title match on other PPVs, but if he was, let me know and I'll look up the numbers on those as well.

But look at what I just posted. That's 116,000 less buys for PPVs in which Punk competed for the title than the year previous. So, regardless of how the buys come out for this PPV, he'll need more than just one decent PPV to prove something. Of course, if buys tank, then I guess this argument can officially be put to rest, right?

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Summer time is usually a low time for the wwe. Kids are away at summer camp and people are on vacation. But a 2.9 Raw rating is pathetic. For all the youtube and wrestlezone hits the infamous promo got, the fan reaction was a 2.9 rating before a ppv. Tell me he is draw?

As the other posters have already mentioned, last week's Raw got a 2.4 without CM Punk. That was because firstly the spoilers of the show were already available and it was clear from those spoilers that Punk was not going to be on the show. Hence it did not draw. Clearly, not a whole lot of people were interested to see the confrontation between Cena and Vince. Let that sink in. You know that the owner of the company and the biggest babyface on the roster are going to go toe to toe with each other and yet not a whole lot of fans are interested to see it. People were more interested in seeing Punk than the combination of Cena and Vince.

And his more infamous promo three weeks ago resulted in a 3.1 rating for Raw which is considered to be a good rating for Raw these days. So yes, in this storyline, all things considered, Punk is drawing very well.

MITB will not get wrestlemania number nor will it get royal rumble rumble numbers, it will have a better buy rate then Capital punishment, but then again any fresh ppv could do that. Tell me how he is a draw?

There is a reason why a PPV that has been around for two years will not draw more than PPVs that has been around for 20 years and draw a lot of mainstream attention and have a tn of celebrity involvement. But still, let us first see how much the PPV draws before making some statements. I believe that after WrestleMania MITB could easily end up being the most watched PPV of the year.

The promo was amazing, awesome, and fresh. He is great on the mic but how does that make him the total package (sorry lex), it doesnt. Hes not worth the money but then again besides Cena who is?
When Punk is getting a reaction his response is to yell at the fans instead of embracing his cheers, he ignores it. Why? becuase hes not comfortable being the man. He doesnt appreciate the fans. HBK, Bret, Austin, the Rock, Flair, Hogan, and Cena knew when they needed to accept or decline the fans to further a story. CM punk cant, hes a better Jeff hardy becuase hes sober and a better talker and worker. But Hardy wasnt a draw. Hes a lower Jericho who has never been a draw, amazing worker but his absence hasnt fazed the fans nor did he ever sell out buildings. His books did well but he neverer had the fans around his fingers.

The bolded parts are possibly the most idiotic thing you have said in this post. No, he did not ignore them at all. On the contrary he shot those fans down. You know why he did that? Because it was his job to be a heel and generate heat. Slowly though, he has realized that the fans are going to cheer him anyway and so on this week he was much more accepting. He admitted to being a bad guy but also for being the voice of the voiceless, which was a face like thing t say, which got him cheered even more. You thing that Ice-Cream reference was just chance? NO. It was a planned move done to get a cheer from the crowd. He has adapted to the crowd reaction. Which is what guys like Hogan, Rock, Austin and Cena have done.

Also Jeff Hardy was a very good draw throughout 2008 and 2009. Check up facts before talking out of your ass.

CM punk should take time off but anyone who thinks the WWE is screwed if he isnt signed back doesnt understand the business and if he is signed back then vince forgot the business. The WWE needs stars to sell out merchanside and staduiums but CM punk just aint that guy. Why? becuase CM Punk cant be it and i wish he could.

What do you think?

While WWE isn't exactly going to be screwed if Punk leaves, it does not hurt to have a wrestler like Punk. WWE cannot get screwed even if Cena leaves today and joins TNA. It will be a big blow but because of the position WWE is in these days, they will adapt pretty quickly.

Punk can be a terrific asset to the company if he is used well. The crowds want to see him and the ratings are a good indication of that fact. So while Vince shouldn't really go out of their way to sign Punk, or any wrestler for that matter, signing Punk back would be the best thing for both parties.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

I actually worry about CM Punk BECOMING a draw. The minute he starts raking in tons of cash is the minute he loses the freedom to be as unique as he is. He's in a unique position where he is enough of a draw to keep in the spotlight, but not enough to make him the go-to guy.

I remember a day when I used to love the John Cena character. Even post chain-gang days he was fun, refreshing, and edgy from time to time. His feud with Edge is still one of my all-time favorite programs.

Randy Orton used to be one of my favorites as well. Once he made it past Evolution, won the World Heavyweight title, and feuding with his former faction members, he was excellent! His promos were good, his ring work was above average, and he was one of the best things to watch on Raw.

Now let's take a good look at both of them. When was the last time either of them did anything fresh and new? They are stuck in their positions as top dogs. It's like CM Punk said in his promo: John Cena is no longer the underdog. He has become the Yankees. And nobody likes the Yankees anymore... It's way more fun to root for the underdog, or continue cheering for your hopeless Chicago Cubs (cough...Zack Ryder...cough).

Here's another thing... Ratings don't always mean what people think they mean. There is a lot to take into consideration, and very little of it has to do with who is in the main event picture. For instance, when Jeff Hardy was in his World Title feud, one of his PPV's was highly rated, and the very next one completely bombed. It wasn't because Jeff Hardy was or was not a draw, it had more to do with what else was going on that week... The bottom line is this: the kids that are watching for Cena that supposed make up all the ratings are still watching for Cena. He's still there, and he's given them no reason to leave. And CM Punk has obviously captured the attention of the internet crowd... With Cena still on top, it's not CM Punk's fault if the ratings fell. You think anybody really watched Raw for R-Truth last month when they were marginally higher?

I worry about CM Punk resigning, and somehow getting huge from all of this. I worry about the WWE taking one of the most talented wrestlers in the world and turning him into a boring, rehearsed, spot monkey whose job is based more on PR than than an in-ring show. I worry that CM Punk becomes exactly what his character is fighting against...

 

[chetdawg]

I want to be nice, and you ripped my favorite wrestler apart, so i will just skip over that and add this little piece. For the past 8 months or so, Punk has been stuck with the New Nexus.......something that almost everyone hates, all fans included. His t-shirt out right now has a Nexus patch on it........he really can't be expected to be a huge draw right now, as he has been stuck in an almost purgatory since taking over the group, and has only recently broken free. The only other store option for a CM Punk t-shirt right now is a 35 dollar shirt, which is a little ridiculous and most people would not buy..........give it time, and i bet if he sticks around, he makes WWE a good chunk of money.

 

[GrandSword]

The problem with Punk is that while he's generating excitement like never before, he's failing at the one thing he's supposed to be doing. He's a heel. He's not supposed to get the fans behind him. The purpose of a heel is to get the face over, not turn the face into a heel. This is not the Attitude Era. That's not the direction WWE is going right now. And let's face it. If not for the angle of Punk leaving, possibly with the title, would anyone really care half as much about the match this Sunday? I know that's the only reason I'm watching. I want to see just how WWE is going to play this out with hopes that they don't do the predictable swerve/brief case cash in....

Wrong, CM Punk in Chicago before all of this started was going to be the face in the match. Now he will be over like no one has seen since the first ECW ppv when RVD faced Cena for the belt. That's what WWE has been building towards this whole time. And exactly the desired effect of what Puunk has been doing.

Punk is indeed the IWC vs. the WWE (Cena), this has been the best build for a WWE ppv main event I can remember.

 

[sjdigitall]

Jeez cant you people just enjoy the rise of a new star in CM Punk rather then rambling and debating whether the man draws or not? Punk has been on a roll in the last couple of weeks, if the wwe were to keep going with this (if he has signed a new contract) for 6 months im sure the man will become a huge draw. Being a big draw doesnt happen overnight. Give it time. Everyone should just stop trying to over analyse everything and just enjoy what has been one of the best builds to a ppv that the wwe has done in years.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

Wrong, CM Punk in Chicago before all of this started was going to be the face in the match. Now he will be over like no one has seen since the first ECW ppv when RVD faced Cena for the belt. That's what WWE has been building towards this whole time. And exactly the desired effect of what Puunk has been doing.

Punk is indeed the IWC vs. the WWE (Cena), this has been the best build for a WWE ppv main event I can remember.

Oh for christ's sake, the BEST build for a WWE PPV Main Event? Gag me with a spoon, dude....in today's day and age the meaning of the word hype has been lost. I mean with 12+ PPVs a year and even more if you count TNA. This shit of all these pay per views especially ones like Money In The Bank and Hell In The Cell are for the birds. It's sad to think that people are actually paying hand over fist for this tripe that they are passing as quality. And yeah believe me I am not exonerating TNA either because they are pulling the same shit. 35-50 bucks on pay per views, you GOT to be fucking kidding me.

Do I think CM Punk vs John Cena will be a good match? Yes, but will the event be worth $44.99 in my view? Fuck that...it's funny how assholes like Barbedwire Ropes will call people like me marks but I'm seriously not willing to plunk down almost 50 bucks on a pay per view when I can wait a while and just watch the event via my netflix account. And yes I heard that there are others ways to see these events elsewhere but I'm not going there, because it's not an option I ever take.

Yes I concede that the profits on these events from both organizations warrant their existence, but in all seriousness the overall storylines suffer from it and if people can't see that they are fucking ******ed.

Sadly enough, CM Punk vs John Cena I do maintain will be a good match but it's going to be on a stupid and ridiculous gimmick pay per view that has watered down what was a GREAT and interesting innovation that the Money In The Bank ladder match was when it was first introduced. But if WWE holds to true form look for the possibility that however this match ends the RAW Money In The Bank winner is going to enter the fray, after all SmackDown's MITB got the love last year, I am assuming that maybe WWE will do that for RAW this year...ugh.

 

[The Champ]

I just love how people are so up in arms about this rating when the show was going up against the MLB Home Run Derby, which of course is going to take up a significant percentage of the ratings no matter what it's up against. I know I was flipping back and forth between the two, and I'm sure there were some who just chose to watch the game with their buddies and DVR Raw for a later viewing. Most also don't realize that ratings are a percentage and not a total amount of viewers, so even if the viewership actually didn't change all that much, the HRD still would have made it go down simply because of how many people were watching that. We'll see what the buyrate looks like, but as of right now I don't see this as any significant evidence that Punk shouldn't be pushed the way he is. Plus, he's already proven that he can be a huge merch mover, as evidenced by his t-shirts being sold out in nearly every size.

 

[brochester8]

I disagree, if you read reports WWE is SOLD OUT of all CM Punk Merchandise. He got cheered in Boston when he's feuding with Cena.

I strongly disagree, he has something right now, and it WILL sell.

 

[scomvp316]

Wrestling is no different than any other job that the average person has. If the company puts no stock into you and doesn't grade the talent correctly both the individual and company in the long term will not be as successful as both can be. When VKM was a billionaire he had many options of guys being the top guy. He has gone back to the Hogan blue print and is only giving one guy most of the pie while 5-6 others get the remaining scraps. Take a look at the two different era's of Hulkamania vs Attitude. Sure Steve was the top guy but others were right their with him. With Hoagn much like Cena very few have the opportunity to be the top guy. CM Punk can be a draw similar to HBK. Cena's appeal the last three years gets worst from the previous year. If they want to use the Hogan blue print and that works so well then why did Hogan first leave WWF and then be the #1 Heel in the late 90's. If Punk is given the same backing and resources from the suits then we will see how much of a draw he can be. As fans we can't determine second tier talent if they are a draw or not if not given the same opportunity as the top talent. For instance look at Orton. He has been given similar resources to Cena and has been proven as a Face he is not a draw. When Orton was a Heel is when he came close to out drawing Cena!

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Well, as to the ratings, you also have to look at a few other things as well. On The History Channel, there was this crossover special that lasted over three hours between the Pawn Stars, American Pickers & American Restoration shows. It drew huge numbers as did the season premieres of The Closer & Rizzoli & Isles on TNT. There was also something going on ESPN, I forget if it was softball or baseball, and it drew huge numbers. WWE went up against stiff competition from shows that've been mega hits. The average Raw audience for 2011 has been a little over 5 million on a weekly basis. Can't hit a homerun everytime you come up to bat. Plus, I wonder how many people recorded Raw via DVR and watched it later. There's been huge buzz generated around the MITB ppv and I have a feeling that this show will draw some buys. Next week's Raw will be about the fallout from MITB and if it doesn't do substantially better than a 2.9 or if the rating actually decreases, then there might be something to be concerned about.

As for CM Punk not being a draw, well that might well be changing. I haven't read through all the responses so I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up but, according to Dave Meltzer, the WWE has completely sold out of CM Punk merchendise. And, as others have said, the rating did go up this week. It wasn't a stellar night numbers wise but there was massive competition this past Monday. CM Punk is finally at that next level. It's only recently happened and he's already bringing in huge money from merchendise sales. Punk was part of WWE's tour to Australia and in South Africa and the Raw shows did huge business especially with most of those shows selling out. People are expecting a strong buy from MITB and next Monday's Raw should bring in big numbers.

Historically, you're right that Punk hasn't really been a draw. But, up until a few weeks ago, Punk wasn't the single most talked about person, place or thing in all of wrestling.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

Man, I want to bring up someone so bad because others are proclaiming that the numbers are good because has *never* been presented as a main event.


Well, the way I look at it.. It is possible that there are people out there who don't give two flying shits about this angle? Unless you are a die hard Punk fan and you read da internet dirt sheets, there is no reason to be interested. Half of the shit Punk has said/mentioned hasn't gotten any reaction from the target demographic (hint: the Cenation) because they don't know what the fuck he is talking about. "What's a Colt Cabana, it is a beer?" "What does ROH stand for, daddy?"

Everyone brings up the IWC and how much say it "has" in determining who is a big deal or not. If that was the case, then explain why more than half the crowd on a weekly basis is sporting an ugly Cena shirt. That includes women, children, and "men over the age of 18" (as someone else put it.)


This angle just feels like they are trying to force drama into a match. Quite frankly, if it was good enough on its own, they wouldn't need to be all shooty shooty for shock value. I don't watch movies just to have the actors shout throughout the movie "IT IS ALL FAKE! I AM ACTING! DON'T INVEST ANY INTEREST IN ME!" I sure in hell don't need fake fighters telling me the same.. Esp when I know it is fake.

And shitty reason(s) or not, a 2.4 or 2.9 is still a 2.4 or 2.9.

 

[Yesiamaduck]

ENOUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

CM Punk is a draw for the early male adult demographic, the is no doubt about that what so ever I'm sure we can agree! Is he a massive draw as of yet? I'm not so sure, I know I'm tuning in primarily because of Punk but thats mainly because of his current storyline which he is doing superbly & is making for some of the most captivating television the WWE has done in quite some time. But you cannot in your right mind say CM Punk is a major draw at the moment simply because this schtick has been going on for 3 weeks? Did Austin become a bonefied draw after 3 weeks with Bret Hart? No, he was a fun guy to watch and obviously drew a certain portion of the crowd in but wasn't the big draw INSTANTLY shit like this takes time, CM Punk as far as I'm aware has never had a prolonged main event push in his career and thus has never had the opportunity to become a big draw and if this is finally it time will only tell if he does become one, can he become one? I think yes he can if booked correctly however it all depends how this culminates and what he does after this particular angle, as weeks go on you are getting more and more convinced what punk is going to do next will be must see and as a result you feel my obliged to tune in and it's only when a large number of people feel that way that he will be a true draw.

Think about it Punk fans did you buy any of the last 10 shows because of CM Punks involvement? It may of helped a bit but was it ever the match you wanted to see and was he ever in an angle that in the past 10 months that made you go I MUST WATCH WWE! No, he may of helped or contributed but he wasn't the main draw. Time will only tell.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Why is it, I open every thread, read through every comment, most being completely crap and loitered with spelling errors, to find that the only person I seem to always agree with is J-Hammer? Maybe it's just me, but Hamler and him seem to be the too most consistent people on this bloody forum for seperating the bullshit from the facts.

Anyway...

- In an update on CM Punk's merchandise being sold out online and at RAW, the official Twitter of WWE's shop website says there are no plans to re-stock any Punk merchandise for the time being.

You're so right dude. WWE are not making a cent off CM Punk, he couldn't make them money if they placed his face on an Ice-Cream treat. But wait, there is more, and it just so happens to be related to that very item...

- Good Humor has been flooded with requests from WWE fans for the return of WWE Ice Cream bars, following CM Punk's promo on Monday's RAW. The term WWE Ice Cream bars has been trending online all week and there have been several online petitions and Facebook pages created for the cause.

CM Punk isn't making WWE a dime. Not a freakin' dime. He's just sitting there, none of his t-shirts sell, its not like there is a whole section in a gigantic warehouse perated by the WWE scarce of CM Punk merchandise or anything. And its not like him mentioning one small, Ice-Cream treat WWE put out in the early '90's has immediately created a surge in said item, is it?

And then onto the 2.9 rating. You do realize that the WWE isn't the only broadcasting show in America on a Monday night, right? I mean, its not like only the USA Network operates while the rest just come to a halt, and people have a decision to do something else or watch WWE programming. No, you see WWE are in a very hard spot on Monday nights, a 2.9 may be a bit of an abnormal rating but they'll bounce back.

CM Punk, the guy whose named is probably one of the most Googled thing in the past fortnight, a man who utters something and people seem infacuated by it, a man whose merchandise has sold out completely before the WWE even enter his hometown for what is being hyped as one of the biggest PPVs of the year is of course not making the WWE any money.

We should listen to you Mark, you truly are the next smart businessman of this generation.

By the way, have fun detecting what percentage of my post has been sarcasm, and then you can break it down into a figure and tell me I don't draw. Thanks for reading.

 

[Why Always Me]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/766135-wwe-news-cena-expects-and-wants-anti-cena-crowd-in-chicago

At the bottom is says that all CM Punk merchandise has sold out - must be making a bit of money there.

Need to see the buyrate for MITB - then maybe we can begin to judge if he can draw.

I feel CM Punk is doing great, people saying this is his 'Austin 3.16 moment' are perhaps getting a little carried away, but then again this could be a huge moment in the history of wrestling.....................sorry SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT

 

[Poop Master Flex]

His week back brought their ratings up half a rating point, I would say thats a pretty good start considering last week was a 2.4 and its the summer time, that time of the year where people do other stuff besides watch TV.

The truth is he hasn't been given a real shot to draw money, if you just linger in midcard your whole career without getting a main event push then you were never given the opportunity to be a draw (and for the record CM Punk is the only reason I've watched WWE in the last 18-24 months outside a few weeks here and there).

Its unfair to say he's not a draw since he has legitimately only had 2 weeks to be a draw (and once again 1/2 a full rating point just sayin). It took Austin a while of solid pushing to make him a draw, give CM Punk a huge push like that then see if he can draw or not. Money makers don't happen overnight, they happen over a long period of time and investment put into someone.

 

[Slyfox696]

I find it amazing how people just keep on regurgitating the same stuff over and over, and don't seem to read where I mostly demolished their Punk=draw arguments. Maybe if I post a pretty picture, that'll help.

As you can see, WWE Shop is not replacing any CM Punk merchandise. So for you people who keep talking about how they "sold out" his merchandise...well, no fucking shit, what did you think would happen when they quit producing it? Punk's been scheduled to leave for over a month now, if they are not restocking his merchandise, of course they are going to be sold out of it. That's just being silly on your part.

As far as the "competition" from other channels goes...did no one see my post where A) The Home Run Derby was not "stiff" competition, and where Raw was doing 3.35 ratings against Monday Night Football, which probably drew as many fans as all of the shows you people are using as competition combined?

It's like some of you ignore anything which would knock you from your delusional perch.

His week back brought their ratings up half a rating point, I would say thats a pretty good start considering last week was a 2.4 and its the summer time

*sigh*

Last week was the 4th of July, an American holiday. The show was taped in advance. Of course it did a bad rating, July 4th shows always do bad ratings.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

*sigh*

Last week was the 4th of July, an American holiday. The show was taped in advance. Of course it did a bad rating, July 4th shows always do bad ratings.

Although that's the spoilers showed that it would be a good show to watch. Not only that although you are very correct in July 4th being a big holiday you also got to remember this one was different for the simple fact it was on a Monday which means it was a long weekend. The last day of a long weekend is often considered a relax day and what do people do on relax days? They usually stay at home and relax before going to work the next day which often involves TV, reading, playing video games, even hanging with friends, but its usually low key and very chill.

Understand I'm not saying that him doing a .5 increase in one week doesn't mean anything yet because it was a holiday but its something to look at. Never discredit a rating spike no matter what the reason is, an extra half million people watching is nothing to shake a stick at, if TNA had an extra half million people watch they would be jizzing all over themselves right now.

Say whatever you want but Punk has brought a lot of attention to the WWE over the last few weeks, the only reason I'm watching WWE right now is to see where this all leads, therefore Punk drew MYSELF and alot of others into watching the product again even if its only until Sunday.

Also say whatever you want about punks drawing abilities. They are definitely in question because u are right Punk hasn't drawn yet but you got to give him a legit chance to draw first before you can say if he is a draw or not. All the big draws in wrestling became big draws because someone decided to give them a chance and give them the ball. Punk has deserved the ball but never got it so you can't say anything until he does.

 

[Slyfox696]

Although that's the spoilers showed that it would be a good show to watch. Not only that although you are very correct in July 4th being a big holiday you also got to remember this one was different for the simple fact it was on a Monday which means it was a long weekend. The last day of a long weekend is often considered a relax day and what do people do on relax days? They usually stay at home and relax before going to work the next day which often involves TV, reading, playing video games, even hanging with friends, but its usually low key and very chill.

Understand I'm not saying that him doing a .5 increase in one week doesn't mean anything yet because it was a holiday but its something to look at. Never discredit a rating spike no matter what the reason is, an extra half million people watching is nothing to shake a stick at, if TNA had an extra half million people watch they would be jizzing all over themselves right now.

Say whatever you want but Punk has brought a lot of attention to the WWE over the last few weeks, the only reason I'm watching WWE right now is to see where this all leads, therefore Punk drew MYSELF and alot of others into watching the product again even if its only until Sunday.

Also say whatever you want about punks drawing abilities. They are definitely in question because u are right Punk hasn't drawn yet but you got to give him a legit chance to draw first before you can say if he is a draw or not. All the big draws in wrestling became big draws because someone decided to give them a chance and give them the ball. Punk has deserved the ball but never got it so you can't say anything until he does.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Raw always has come on Monday, right? I mean, aside from the occasional move due to the Dog Show, it's always been a Monday show, right? Back in 2005, June 27th Raw did a 4.4. The July 4th show did a 2.6. The July 11 show did 3.6.

Obviously, the "relax" day didn't apply there either. The point is that Raw didn't spike .5, they just had a .5 decrease last week due to the holiday.

The fact is, Punk didn't add anything noticeable to the ratings. Indeed, this week's show was watched by fewer people than the show two weeks ago. Punk has still yet to prove himself as a draw. And don't tell me he hasn't had the opportunities. As I posted in this thread, Punk has been champion in many different PPVs, and almost all of them did worse in buys than the previous years.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Raw always has come on Monday, right? I mean, aside from the occasional move due to the Dog Show, it's always been a Monday show, right? Back in 2005, June 27th Raw did a 4.4. The July 4th show did a 2.6. The July 11 show did 3.6.

Obviously, the "relax" day didn't apply there either. The point is that Raw didn't spike .5, they just had a .5 decrease last week due to the holiday.

The fact is, Punk didn't add anything noticeable to the ratings. Indeed, this week's show was watched by fewer people than the show two weeks ago. Punk has still yet to prove himself as a draw. And don't tell me he hasn't had the opportunities. As I posted in this thread, Punk has been champion in many different PPVs, and almost all of them did worse in buys than the previous years.

I never once argued the fact he hasn't proven himself as a draw all I said was that he needs the chance to become a draw, in essence you can only be a draw if the company you work for gives you the ball and gives you the chance to BECOME a draw, I don't recall CM Punk ever getting that chance. I have never said he was a draw all I said was we don't really know if he has the capability yet because he hasn't been given that shot, although he has certainly earned it over the last few years. Punk has been treated like a midcard at best and not like a main eventer like he should be.

You also got to realize that the show punk WASN'T on did a much worse rating that the 2 shows he WAS on and the truth is you don't know if that was attributed to Punk or not, although the ratings on average drop on holidays the fact that the shows Punk was on there was an increase in ratings is a reason to give Punk a real shot to see if the trend continues, what do they have to lose?

Yes we don't know that Punk is a draw yet but until he gets a real shot to be a draw we never will. No one draws big unless the big boss gives them that opportunity to draw and be a top star.

 

[AttitudeAJM]

CM Punk has never done much for buyrates or ratings. That isn't to say that he isn't entertaining. He is but he's not the guy that makes the difference in ratings. SummerSlam 2009 drew almost 200,000 less buys and it was main evented by CM Punk and Jeff Hardy as opposed to the year before with Cena vs. Batista and Edge vs. Undertaker.

Here's a great example:

One of the least rated SNL casts was the mid 90's crew consisting of Norm McDonald, Adam Sandler and Chris Farley. Sometimes the most entertaining pieces are not necessarily the biggest money makers.

 

[Slyfox696]

You also got to realize that the show punk WASN'T on did a much worse rating that the 2 shows he WAS on and the truth is you don't know if that was attributed to Punk or not, although the ratings on average drop on holidays the fact that the shows Punk was on there was an increase in ratings is a reason to give Punk a real shot to see if the trend continues, what do they have to lose?

I'm sorry, no offense or anything, but that literally ranks high in the "stupidest things I've ever read" category.

Punk wasn't on Raw back in 2000, and they were doing ratings in the 6s. Maybe if Punk wasn't on Raw, they'd go back to doing 6.0 ratings again.


See how stupid that sounds? The increase this week wasn't because of Punk, and to say it was is simply asinine. To even suggest it is asinine. Like I said earlier, less people watched this week than two weeks ago. The fact you are trying to use a July 4th rating to prove CM Punk MIGHT have made a difference is just silly. Kindly stop.

Finally, Punk DID have a chance to prove himself a draw. I've said that multiple times in this thread. He never has. If Punk couldn't draw as a face, why would he suddenly be able to draw as a heel, when anyone with a lick of common sense knows faces draw fans, not heels?

Perhaps Punk may some day be a huge draw (though I doubt it), time will only tell on that one. But the fact is, and it's indisputable at this point, Punk has yet to be one, and he has had his chances. Those are facts, and they are indisputable.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I'm sorry, no offense or anything, but that literally ranks high in the "stupidest things I've ever read" category.

Punk wasn't on Raw back in 2000, and they were doing ratings in the 6s. Maybe if Punk wasn't on Raw, they'd go back to doing 6.0 ratings again.


See how stupid that sounds? The increase this week wasn't because of Punk, and to say it was is simply asinine. To even suggest it is asinine. Like I said earlier, less people watched this week than two weeks ago. The fact you are trying to use a July 4th rating to prove CM Punk MIGHT have made a difference is just silly. Kindly stop.

Finally, Punk DID have a chance to prove himself a draw. I've said that multiple times in this thread. He never has. If Punk couldn't draw as a face, why would he suddenly be able to draw as a heel, when anyone with a lick of common sense knows faces draw fans, not heels?

Perhaps Punk may some day be a huge draw (though I doubt it), time will only tell on that one. But the fact is, and it's indisputable at this point, Punk has yet to be one, and he has had his chances. Those are facts, and they are indisputable.

Yes that did sound stupid but its completely irrelevant to anything I've been talking about. Punk has been the talk of the wrestling world over the last 2 weeks, his segments 2 weeks ago and 2 days ago were the best thing to happen in WWE television in quite some time, if the guy has that much momentum the smart thing to do is to GIVE HIM THE BALL, its not a difficult concept to grasp.

Also, no he HASN'T got a real shot yet, name me 1 PPV during that babyface run of his that he main evented, just because your given a title run doesn't mean you get a legit shot to draw, that's like saying Swagger got a chance to draw. Now Swagger doesn't deserve a chance but Punk does, apparently you don't know the difference between a draw and a champ because you think because he got a baby face run as champ means he got a chance to be a draw. When Punk was champ it was all Edge/Taker and HBK/Jericho, during that time he was shoved to the background even though he was champ THAT'S A FACT.

Also saying that he can't draw as a heel because he didn't as a face is to quote you "one of the stupidest things I've ever heard", that's like saying Sting can't draw as a face because he can't draw as a heel. A lot of wrestlers could draw one way but not the other. Punk is a natural heel so of course he could draw better as a heel than a face, just because he couldn't as a face doesn't mean anything, especially since he wasn't given a legit shot as a draw as a face as I've already proved.

 

[Slyfox696]

Yes that did sound stupid but its completely irrelevant to anything I've been talking about. Punk has been the talk of the wrestling world over the last 2 weeks, his segments 2 weeks ago and 2 days ago were the best thing to happen in WWE television in quite some time

Ratings do not agree.

Also, no he HASN'T got a real shot yet, name me 1 PPV during that babyface run of his that he main evented

Great American Bash 2008 vs. Batista.

apparently you don't know the difference between a draw and a champ

No, I assure you I do. You don't seem to understand, however, that being the champ IS your chance to show you're a draw.

because you think because he got a baby face run as champ means he got a chance to be a draw. When Punk was champ it was all Edge/Taker and HBK/Jericho, during that time he was shoved to the background even though he was champ THAT'S A FACT.

And whose fault is that?

If the WWE Champion isn't good enough to make people care about his feud against Batista, that's on Punk, not on the WWE. When Cena feuded with Batista early in 2010, was it overshadowed by other feuds? In both cases, it's for the title against Batista...what's the difference? People cared about Cena.

I'm sorry, but that's horrible evidence Punk hasn't been given a chance. The fact he was overshadowed says bad things about Punk, not the WWE.

Also saying that he can't draw as a heel because he didn't as a face is to quote you "one of the stupidest things I've ever heard", that's like saying Sting can't draw as a face because he can't draw as a heel.

*sigh*

I'm really trying hard to spend less time insulting people, and more time educating, but you're making it difficult.

I've said MANY times faces draw, not heels. It's been proven time and again over the years.

A lot of wrestlers could draw one way but not the other.

No, no they can't. Outside of Hulk Hogan, there has been essentially NO ONE who has been a big draw as a heel. Even with Hogan, if not for Sting and Goldberg, interest in the product/Hogan would have waned much sooner.

Faces draw fans, not heels. It's Wrestling 101. It's why you'll see Face vs. Face main-events and feuds regularly, but you'll almost never see a Heel vs Heel feud or main-event.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Ratings do not agree.

Great American Bash 2008 vs. Batista.

No, I assure you I do. You don't seem to understand, however, that being the champ IS your chance to show you're a draw.

And whose fault is that?

If the WWE Champion isn't good enough to make people care about his feud against Batista, that's on Punk, not on the WWE. When Cena feuded with Batista early in 2010, was it overshadowed by other feuds? In both cases, it's for the title against Batista...what's the difference? People cared about Cena.

I'm sorry, but that's horrible evidence Punk hasn't been given a chance. The fact he was overshadowed says bad things about Punk, not the WWE.


*sigh*

I'm really trying hard to spend less time insulting people, and more time educating, but you're making it difficult.

I've said MANY times faces draw, not heels. It's been proven time and again over the years.

No, no they can't. Outside of Hulk Hogan, there has been essentially NO ONE who has been a big draw as a heel. Even with Hogan, if not for Sting and Goldberg, interest in the product/Hogan would have waned much sooner.

Faces draw fans, not heels. It's Wrestling 101. It's why you'll see Face vs. Face main-events and feuds regularly, but you'll almost never see a Heel vs Heel feud or main-event.

Dude saying faces are the only draws completely negates that the BIG draw of the NWA in the 80's was the 4 Horsemen, A HEEL GROUP, led by the biggest draw they ever had Ric Flair, again ALSO A HEEL but you're right faces are the only draws, I guess Buddy Rogers and Gorgeous George weren't draws either by that genius logic. Point is heels CAN in fact DRAW, and they are also the reason faces draw, if Piper wasn't such a great heel, Hogan wouldn't have gotten nearly as over as a face. Also the nWo is a PERFECT example that heels can in fact draw (but you already know that from your previous response), its not a common practice but its VERY possible. Besides times have changed, people are over the classic babyface role and guys like Austin proved that, if Austin was a clean cut baby face he NEVER would have been as big as he became but really Austin was a heel, posing as a face. Austin may have been popular, but he got there by being a HEEL not a face. Him and McMahon was basically a heel that everyone loved vs. a heel everyone hated. Faces draw money is wrestling 101 but the last 15 years have proven that fact inaccurate, wrestlings boom period in the late 90's was built around heels (like Austin, Rock, nWo).

Secondly a lot of champs were just there to get from one story to another, not because they were given a chance at a draw. In most cases yes, being champ is your chance to draw but it wasn't in Punks case. All their effort in the last half of 2008 were around those story lines I told you, not around the title and CM Punk. I'm not saying that was the WWE's fault cuz I would have done the same thing but saying Punk got a shot is stupid, as champ he got maybe 10-15 minutes a week tops where Edge/Taker and HBK/Jericho were getting loads of TV time, especially Edge/Taker, Smackdown back then was pretty much the Edge show and that's where Punk was back then, from the minute punk was champ to the minute he lost it he was never in the forefront and always in the background, never in the spotlight so once again NO HE DIDN'T GET HIS CHANCE.