Cena Can't Win

[Harthan]

Hmm hmm hmm. An interesting predicament.

I think the first relevant question with regard to whether John Cena can really come out of this match in a positive light is whether or not he can really turn heel. And I wonder about whether he can do that. It's the best move artistically, to be sure, but can he do it from a business standpoint, or from a PR standpoint? What happens if John Cena turn heel, is the logical next question. Are people coming to live events, ordering PPVs, watching television, buying merchandise to see a face John Cena? Intuition says yes, although without access to data that I presume is only in the hands of WWE's marketing team, I can't say for sure. But it seems logical that, in a big way, John Cena and his current gimmick are what is anchoring the WWE right now. With him as a heel, do you have that same anchor?

Arguably, to an extent, a heel draws as much as a face does, although for some reason most people don't look at this side of the equation. Take, for example, back in the day when Mr. Perfect was being considered as a main event challenger to feud with Hulk Hogan. Hogan was an enormous draw in his day, but when pitted against Mr. Perfect, house show sales tanked. This is proof positive that a great face cannot draw alone. In the same vein, it is not necessary to book around great faces as the WWE has done for almost its entire existence in the modern era. WCW was incredibly successful by booking around great heels - not only the nWo, most obviously, but Ric Flair and the Four Horsemen to boot.

What I'm getting at here is this - the WWE's goal is to sustain ratings and sales. They've accomplished this goal for the last several years by making Cena the solid, anchored face, and pitting heels of various ability against him. It's been a decent enough business model, it seems, although most metrics of success for the WWE have declined over the same time frame - likely nothing to do with Cena, and more to do with the fact that wrestling as an entity stopped being cool and the rise of the UFC. I posit this - the WWE could be just as successful as they are now, but potentially more or less so, by turning John Cena heel. The basic scenario would be John Cena becoming a big time heel a la Hulk Hogan 1997 and booking a new breed of scrappy young faces to win over the hearts of the children and women everywhere to slay the beast. One could reasonably expect this business model to do well. One might even dare hope that it could catch fire as the nWo did, and improve the WWE's business overall. One might also fear that no face could rise to the occasion, the women and children would tune out, and business would falter. Still, I think I've made the point reasonably well - the WWE could feasibly succeed from a business standpoint if John Cena were a heel.

Now, with that out of the way, let's address the WrestleMania match. You want John Cena to come out on top? I'll try my best.

John Cena should win after a hard fought contest. Build the match to guarantee Miami is booing him as hard as they bood him when he wrestled Punk in Chicago. Well, as close as you can get to that, anyway. After putting Rocky down with the final AA, begin the closing sequence, which is very important. Cena offers Rocky a handshake. Rocky looks at it. He does the "You can't see me" and turns his back to pose for the crowd. Sell it like Cena's pissed and is about to attack, but he drops it at the last moment. He retreats. Rocky celebrates in front of Miami. Cena's watching from the ramp. Rock is soaking it in. Cena can't take it. He charges the ring. He goes to town on Rocky. And then he takes it up a notch. He destroys him. He murders him (metaphorically). He leaves him lying in a pool of blood. The closing shot of WrestleMania 28 is this - John Cena, with a steel chair in hand, standing over a bloodied and unconscious Rock.

IC, you argue that the IWC will complain that they saw it coming. But I don't know that anyone would see that coming. And even if they did, would it matter? Would it really make it less awesome to see that play out? Artistically, I think this would be a great close to WM 28. From a business standpoint, I think its a low risk/low reward scenario for the WWE. The thing is, I think it's premature. In 3 years, John Cena will be in a very different position than he is now. As it stands, he's still on top of the game and in his prime. Does it make sense to turn Cena now? Not really, no, but it could be done probably without really changing how much business the WWE is doing.

My answer, in short, to IC, is this - yes, there is a scenario in which John Cena can profit from his match with the Rock. He wins clean, is overcome by disrespect, and turns heel with a brutal attack on the Rock. A small minority of the audience will bitch and moan - they always will - but overall, it would be a brilliant angle artistically and at least a break even business decision.

End of the day - it could work.

 

[rge2010]

Yeh, lots to consider turning John Cena heel. How can he do bad stuff on TV and then make wishes for sick kids to the level that he does. Ok, we all know the difference between fantasy and reality but do 8 year old kids dying with cancer? They look up to Cena.

As for WM28....2 scenarios for me..........

Cena wins via heel turn and cheats Rock out of the victory in his BIG comeback and in front of his home fans.

Rock wins cleanly, but the story carries on throughout 2012 and ends at Summerslam, probably with Cena winning that one makiing it 1-1.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Plainly, the company recognizes and desires that Cena will come out of this looking like the bad guy, whether he actually turns or not. The OP is asking if there is any way John can emerge from it smelling like a rose.....and there just doesn't seem to be a way. Even if Rock was to enter the ring as the biggest heel ever, from doing something dastardly like assaulting Lilian Garcia and leaving her lying, the fans will know he isn't going to be around after Wrestlemania, and they'll cheer the hell out of him.

Consider: Rock is a bad guy whom the fans love......while Cena is a good guy whom many fans hate. To have one performer who can pull that off is amazing.....to have two is other-worldly. It's an irresistible match-up.

Personally, I think Cena will finally turn heel, whether it happens at WM or in anticipation of it.....and when he's in full bad guy mode, he'll still be the biggest star in the company......maybe even bigger than ever. Rock will be gone, but his mission will be fulfilled.....it's for sure Cena won't need him further.

In a way, though, none of the speculation matters, because the company is achieving it's goal; they've got us wondering what twists and turns this match-up will provide. By getting people talking about it and wondering what will happen, they're building the gate toward what may be the biggest PPV purchase rate ever.

So, while there's probably no way for Cena to "win".....he'll win, anyway.

 

[Davi323]

The truth is, you aren't going to be able to please everyone, it's foolish to try. In that sense, I think IC is correct. No matter what happens, there are going to be people bitching about John Cena. I can't think of a single wrestler, athlete, or other famous person, no matter how good they are, that didn't have detractors who loved to bitch about them, whether their complaints were rational or not. Remember, there is always that 5th dentist who wouldn't recommend whatever brand of gum, just to be contrary.

I don't know if asking "if John Cena can ever win" is really the right question to ask...It's more like, "how can John Cena piss off the least amount of people?"

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Well if you put it that way then you would have to assume that Cena has to turn heel at the end of it all. Cena has always been an eyesore for a certain section of fans but you would expect that negativity to hit a point of no return after Cena beats Rock at Mania. Yes, it would be rather silly to assume that Rock can win this because he is obviously not going to stay after Mania. If Cena has ever got to turn heel, there cannot be a better opportunity than Mania when the Cena hate will be at its peak. Cena as a heel is a scenario that intrigues me a lot and has a lot of potential but I think that there is one other scenario that is just as possible.

Cena wins at Mania, and there is widespread negativity. There may also be a Bash at The Beach like scenario in which Cena stands on the turnbuckle with his arms raised and the ring is filled with trash. Then Cena disappears for a week or two and news starts circulating that you Cena is so pissed at the fans that he does not want to wrestle any more. Then a wrestler, say Zack Ryder, is at the recieving end of a beatdown on Raw and suddenly Cena appears. The announcers are surprised and are half expecting him to join the beatdown when he rushes into the ring and saves the wrestler thus remaining a face. Cena then announces that he will never turn his back on the fans and we go back to square one. Of course, if this happens then it is very unlikely that Cena will ever turn heel. However that may not be a bad thing after all as it makes for a good story of a man fighting all the temptation there was to turn on the fans. If this goes well Cena may become a greater role model than ever, theoretically even greater than Hogan as Hogan did give in to that temptation once.

Will any of this please everyone? Nope, but that has never been a part of Cena's gameplan and I don't think that it will ever be. But that's OK because that is what makes Cena work so well, probably even better than it would have had Cena been universally liked or universally hated.

 

[Bernkastel]

Whoa! You mean to tell me that part of the money I give to the WWE when I buy the tickets goes to Cena? Shit, I guess from now on I should just stop going and having a great time because I don't like one particular wrestler. I don't think anyone is going to these shows only to boo Cena. I go because it's a fun thing to do. If Cena gets paid for it that's great for him. I don't hate the guy in real life, just his TV persona.

So you're now saying that it's fun to boo Cena. It doesn't sound like you hate the guy that much if you can't be bothered to get up and leave during his segments. You would only pay money for a ticket to see guys you like, right? Why stick around to see someone that you hated? Your argument makes little sense.

Wait you mean to tell me that John Cena gets money when people purchase John Cena shirts? You're blowing my mind.

Fans that supposedly hate Cena but still buy merchandise with his likeness on them are sending WWE the message that "even though we hate Cena, we will still support him."

This destroys your "Cena can lose to the Rock because the fans already hate him," logic. You being sarcasitic in attempt to dance around it only further cements it.

Not every face gets their ass kicked and then does 5 moves to win it. If they all did, then Cena wouldn't be so notorious for it would he.

You being an AE mark and all, I doubt you seen much wrestling of the time before that. The style that Cena wrestles is pretty much the exact same that Hogan, Warrior, and Steamboat used. The AE introduced the idea of a tweener character, and it messed everything up.

Nowadays AE marks want everyone to be tweeners with little heel or face distinction, do you know how boring that sounds?

This isn't helping you're argument at all. That gimmick was cornier than his current.

So now you're saying that Cena was incapable of speaking and getting fans invested into his matches during that time. Excuse me while I laugh my ass off.

I mentioned this match because I know they are the same thing. It wasn't by accident. I get that the torch was passed and that it will be passed again. How many times must I say that before you understand?

Do you? If you really did understand then why do you keep going on and on how it couldn't hurt Cena if he lost to the Rock at Mania? The torch cannt be passed if Cena loses.

Like I said before Attitude Era fans just cannot let that era go.

 

[The Champ]

You're absolutely right. John Cena is never going to please everyone, which is something that I've been saying for years. No matter what they do with him, he's always going to have haters. However, let's weigh the consequences of the options here.

1. Cena goes over clean. Now, Cena is "being forced down peoples throats" again (total BS) and "still sucks because all he did was beat an over the hill movie star."

People groan and moan; meanwhile, Cena gets the biggest victory of his career and can use that to continue leading the company.

2. Rock goes over Cena clean. "Cena sucks he lost to an over the hill movie star."

People mark out for The Rock getting his moment. Rock leaves and Cena still has to lead the company. He looks like shit for losing, which reflects on the whole era because the point of this match is generation vs. generation. Cena's beaten everybody and if he loses to someone who hasn't wrestled a one on one match in nine years, that makes them all look bad. Also, it does nothing for Rock because he'll still be making millions of dollars in Hollywood.

3. Cena stays face. Cena "sucks, I've Cena-nuff, blah blah blah."

Nothing changes and he continues on the successful path he's been on.

4. Cena goes heel. "We saw that coming a mile away" and then the Make a Wish foundation loses its #1 personality while millions of kids - whose live event tickets cost the same as every obnoxiously smarky 22 year-old - are left without an icon, since nobody else fits the bill.

Ratings might boost for a while, but WWE will lose a lot of money in merchandise sales, they lose a lot in PR because they no longer have the most requested athlete in Make a Wish ever, and eventually things will flatten out and the ratings will go back to the way they were.

Way more negatives in Cena losing and/or turning heel. So there is a right answer, even if some might not like it.

 

[The A]

Whats the deal with heels not being able to do make a wish? I thought miz did some. Everyone knows that they are just stars on a show. That would be like not having the heels sign autographs and stuff.

 

[Sparky]

So, in this thread, I'm asking - is there any scenario in which John Cena actually comes out on top?

The Miz.

Well, insert any heel currently wrestling at the moment. The only way that Cena could come out of this on top is to have Somebody (and I'm only saying the miz because it's looking like it could actually happen) run in before the match can finish. With having no clean finish and no sure thing winner. It Wouldn't make Cena weak, It wouldn't make the Rock look weak, It would set up Cena's next feud seeing it's highly doubtful Rocky vs Cena 2 will happen the next payperview like normal. But it could also be a way to have the Rock vs Cena 2 happen down the track at a time where another ending wont hurt seeing there was no clear cut winner And It would also give the heel a fuckton of heat because they ruined the match they wanted to see.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

I think at some point you have to go out there and ignore what most of the IWC are saying about John Cena. Especially when it comes to huge main events like Rock/Cena at WrestleMania, where the stakes are so high and probably anything can happen. To your point: can Cena "win" given any situation? No, not with the IWC. As you already went into detail about, there's nothing he can do that will please the majority of the fans.

Here's the thing though, while I'm obviously a member of the IWC, as are all of us here on the forums, the mainstream fans that don't populate the internet are going to enjoy the product no matter what happens. If Cena wins clean though, I guarantee you he gets boo'd out of the arena. He MIGHT garner the underdog support from his die-hards, and maybe some fans that are on the fence and just don't want to see a part-timer win the main event of Mania. But I think, after seeing them in Chicago and hearing the reaction, it's going to be 100x worse in Rocky's backyard.

That's probably why turning him heel before or after makes so much sense. He's going to get boo'd no matter what they do, so why not give it purpose? I think that's what they're trying to build toward's with this Kane feud. Otherwise I'm just hella confused... Something I think you may be underestimating is the Rock's reaction in all of this. Will it be "Oh my god, Cena sucks so much", or will it be "damn, Rock is on fire!"? Who will this be about when all is said and done? If the talk of a best-of-three series is real, then it's possible the Mania outcome doesn't even matter.

 

[Attitude>>>PG]

Well as a non Cena fan I just wanted to say that I don't hate Cena I just cannot relate to him if that makes any sense. His gimmick never caught on to me. I liked him when he was a rapper but this superhero marine gimmick of his just doesn't register to me. I'm not taking anything away from him as he's an amazing performer and wrestler but other than that ... meh.

Everyone is different though. I'm sure there where some who didn't like or couldn't relate to Hogan, Warrior, Rock or Austin when they were on top of the WWF/WWE. Hell look no further than these boards and you'll see that there are already threads hating on CM punk after 6 months and two title reigns LOL. Oh IWC, never change.

 

[AdamG]

I honestly don't know whether Cena should win or lose this, there's major pros and cons to each for WWE. What the real question is how are WWE gonna facilitate a Cena heel turn they have already very subtedly hinted at with the Kane angle without alienating the kids and thus losing a ton of cash in merch revenue? Well...

Whether Cena wins or loses, Rock should offer him a handshake and Cena should take it. Then drag him back and FU him. Then go as far as the PG rating will allow - annihilate the Rock with a chair and FU him again through the announce table, just completely go nuts on him - even have the camera cut to a shot of a kid in a Cena shirt looking uncomfortable as his hero takes things a bit too far. Viewer ratings for Raw the next night would go through the roof to see how WWE explains this. Cena could come out and cut a promo explaining how he did it for the kids and his fans - how he still loves them and thanks them for being the only ones cheering him and 'rising above the hate' at 'Mania and that Rock let those kids down by claiming he would never leave them. He could go further and suggest that it was all a release of frustration that he's been feeling at the Rock fans/Cena haters and that he's sick of trying to please them when all they do is boo him anyway. Boom! done. It's a risk but if done properly, WWE would keep the kids as Cena fans and thus keep the merch-machine rolling and Cena would finally get the right sort of heat from the haters.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Well as a non Cena fan I just wanted to say that I don't hate Cena I just cannot relate to him if that makes any sense. His gimmick never caught on to me. I liked him when he was a rapper but this superhero marine gimmick of his just doesn't register to me. I'm not taking anything away from him as he's an amazing performer and wrestler but other than that ... meh.

Everyone is different though. I'm sure there where some who didn't like or couldn't relate to Hogan, Warrior, Rock or Austin when they were on top of the WWF/WWE. Hell look no further than these boards and you'll see that there are already threads hating on CM punk after 6 months and two title reigns LOL. Oh IWC, never change.

Actually, your take on Cena is one of the few I've read on the forums that actually makes A LOT of sense. If somebody doesn't relate to you, that's perfectly fine. I can absolutely relate to him. He's a guy who's experiences both love and hate, and who has chosen the path of hard work to success as opposed to the path of least resistance.

I could never relate to Hogan, but I got it. He was the dude who carried the flag and the fans on his shoulders and fought the odds. The bonus to Hogan was that heels WERE HEELS back then. Fans back then never said "man I can't wait to get the new Don Muraco t-shirt. That dude is bad ass!" WWF never mass produced the King Kong Bundy bald cap. Heels were not designed to be liked or even respected. Feared, maybe.

"Macho King" Randy Savage and The Undertaker were, in my estimation, the first two guys to change that, with the possible exception of the 4 Horsemen. Savage still came off the top rope and wrestled epic matches with Steamboat and Warrior that brought crowds to their feet. 'Taker was just so bad ass. That made it more difficult for the faces to get all of the good heat from the fans.

Now-a-days, with a new heel or face turn happening seemingly every month and with heels like The Miz, Cody Rhodes, and Dolph Ziggler being so likable and former heels like S(h)eamus, CM Punk, Randy Orton, being completely incapable of holding their heel heat, it makes it harder for a true face like Cena to maintain.

I'm a big picture guy. I think Cena should remain a babyface for his entire career, or at least until another guy comes along who is as popular as he is, which hasn't happened yet. I refuse to accept that John Cena should turn heel to satisfy the miserable smarky fan boys who want to feel rebellious at the expense of the 8-year old kids dying of cancer who want their hero to visit them before their lives are cut so tragically short. The folks who boo Cena with such sanguine fervor and demand a heel turn are so sickeningly selfish.

So what does WWE do? Puts him against The Rock. A guy who has felt the face / heel / face / heel / face / heel roller coaster as much as anybody in history not booked by Vince Russo. Cena can't win here, which was the entire point of my OP. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. All this sacrifice for the buy rates of one PPV. I hope they know what they're doing.

RISE ABOVE HATE.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

I could never relate to Hogan, but I got it. He was the dude who carried the flag and the fans on his shoulders and fought the odds.

I was never a huge Hogan fan because of this, actually. I got the hype, and I respected the hell out of him for his work ethic and dedication to the company and his fans (gee, sound familiar?) but I didn't like his character. I've never bought into the pseudo-patriotism that has surrounded pro wrestling over the years. The Jim Duggan, Slaughter, Hogan characters never did it for me, because I just feel no need to recite the pledge of allegiance every time I want to watch a good wrestling match. In turn, I never liked the anti-American heels either, because I thought they were TOO over-the-top, and TOO built on America's blind hatred of our "enemies". I was a kid, so I had far less conviction about things like this, but I still didn't enjoy it...

The bonus to Hogan was that heels WERE HEELS back then. Fans back then never said "man I can't wait to get the new Don Muraco t-shirt. That dude is bad ass!" WWF never mass produced the King Kong Bundy bald cap. Heels were not designed to be liked or even respected. Feared, maybe.

"Macho King" Randy Savage and The Undertaker were, in my estimation, the first two guys to change that, with the possible exception of the 4 Horsemen. Savage still came off the top rope and wrestled epic matches with Steamboat and Warrior that brought crowds to their feet. 'Taker was just so bad ass. That made it more difficult for the faces to get all of the good heat from the fans.

This is so true! And well said, might I add. I don't think it's a positive OR a negative against the industry, it's just natural evolution. I doubt they would have been able to keep the pure, dynamic faces and heels going for very much longer anyways. Fans got "smarter" and started having a preference! How dare they! I don't know exactly at what point people started looking at heels and deciding for themselves who they could like and dislike, but I'd imagine you're spot on in your analysis. Taker and Savage were the two guys that did it for me, and I would throw in Roddy Pipper as well.

Now-a-days, with a new heel or face turn happening seemingly every month and with heels like The Miz, Cody Rhodes, and Dolph Ziggler being so likable and former heels like S(h)eamus, CM Punk, Randy Orton, being completely incapable of holding their heel heat, it makes it harder for a true face like Cena to maintain.

I can't really think of a way around this, to be honest. Can you imagine another wrestling world where the fans just liked and hated characters based on their on-screen allegiances? I think that world is long gone, for better or for worse. The trick now is figuring out how to best utilize characters so they DO play to the fans emotions. JBL was the last huge heel that I think everyone hated. The problem now is, not only are these heels likable, they just aren't that BAD! They gave up on the Hassan character for fear of offending somebody post 9/11, but that didn't stop them in the 80s! And they're really hesitant to use Jindar Mahal, because we do live in a different world where people take racism a lot more seriously. Like I said, I never liked when WWE played the "race card" but it is effective for cheap heat...

I'm a big picture guy. I think Cena should remain a babyface for his entire career, or at least until another guy comes along who is as popular as he is, which hasn't happened yet.

As much as I hate to equate the two's careers, who was as popular as Hogan when the turned him heel? Sting? Doubtful. Ric Flair? Too late, wrong company. Goldberg? Hadn't even started yet! WCW had a lot of guys that were popular, and a lot more solid talents in the upper-mid-card, but they didn't have anyone to match the popularity of Hogan, even after he was missing from the industry for a year! And I think that's why it worked so well, to be honest... Hogan turned and became that iconic heel that you hated on principle. He was the biggest thing in wrestling, face or heel, and during the run of the NWO it built up a lot of fan support for whoever was in the ring against him. I don't think you need another star on-par with Cena in order to turn him, I think you actually need somebody right below him, ready to step into his shoes. Might sound crazy, but I've always though a heel Cena, face Orton feud could be HUGE.

I refuse to accept that John Cena should turn heel to satisfy the miserable smarky fan boys who want to feel rebellious at the expense of the 8-year old kids dying of cancer who want their hero to visit them before their lives are cut so tragically short. The folks who boo Cena with such sanguine fervor and demand a heel turn are so sickeningly selfish.

You're right, the real reason I'm looking forward to a Cena turn is not because I believe it will enhance the product, it's because I want cancer patients to die a miserable, lonely existence. No argument here: I hate them all. Worthless.

I also could point out that Cena, being the nice gentlemen that he is, could refuse to turn heel. He could put his foot down and say "no", because ultimately helping little children accomplish their dreams is more important than a Mania paycheck, higher ratings, or a better fake wrestling product. But if the time comes that Vince says "it's time Cena", you better believe the company boy will play his party to the full, regardless of how many poor little children are left crying themselves to sleep every night. And that is when I come out...because I feed on the souls of dying cancer patients. It's because I'm a ginger, and we extrinsically have no souls to ourselves.

So what does WWE do? Puts him against The Rock. A guy who has felt the face / heel / face / heel / face / heel roller coaster as much as anybody in history not booked by Vince Russo. Cena can't win here, which was the entire point of my OP. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. All this sacrifice for the buy rates of one PPV. I hope they know what they're doing.

I still agree with you, to a point. In a way, Cena is going to be damned no matter what they do with him. WWE has two options: they can accept that people will be pissed off at Cena and boo him no matter what, or they can capitalize on it for maximum gain. Money, money, money...that's what it will come down to. Vince can donate some "Cena Sucks" merch to the St. Jude's hospitals in Cena's name. That'll show them the love.

RISE ABOVE HATE.

Oh, how deliciously cliche. I <3 you #IC25, even if you do show love to dying children...

 

[loucar86]

IMO nothing is going to happen. cena will not turn heel before during or after the match. we might say some non PG things about the rock to seem like hes going to but in the end he will not do anything. Cena will win the match clean asa symbol from VKM to the fans saying see look cena is the guy he beat the rock. then rock will shake cena's hand fans might cheer a little bit then wwe will say look their kinda cheering quick cut the feed and fad to black.

overall its a match that will be entertaining b/c of the crowd and not the action in the ring

 

[Marv95]

2. Rock goes over Cena clean. "Cena sucks he lost to an over the hill movie star."

4. Cena goes heel. "We saw that coming a mile away" and then the Make a Wish foundation loses its #1 personality while millions of kids - whose live event tickets cost the same as every obnoxiously smarky 22 year-old - are left without an icon, since nobody else fits the bill.

How about a combination of the two? Rock wins clean, only for Cena to snap afterwards by literally leaving Rocky a bloody pulp. Then cuts a hateful promo on the crowd, then leaves. That way everyone's happy: Rock/AE marks get their wish with Rocky winning at Mania while the hardcore fans who put up with 6 years of crap get their heel turn.

And it's not real. Heels can do charity work/MAW stuff. They've done so in the past. There are other folks in WWE kids can admire; if not oh well, they can be replaced.

 

[Headman]

Prediction... Cena isn't just going to beat the Rock clean. He's going to make the Rock tap. This is going to be where the WWE holds up their hand, extends their middle finger and points it in the faces of the least desired and least profitable fans. They did it before with Triple H vs Cena and they're going to do it again.

 

[bigjoe113]

HERE IS A SCENARIO THAT CAN ACTUALLY WORK FOR CENA. This will take some time though.

First off, Cena needs more attitude in his character in this feud or everyone will think Rock will win. If Rock wins it's expected and if he loses Rock will look like a joke.

Secondly, treat this like HBK vs Undertaker WM 25 where people think Undertaker can loose aka The Rock. Also, the match at Wrestlemania should be an even bout where no man has an actual advantage and just like Taker, Rock manages to find a way to win. Rock "put over" Cena by making him look like his equal. People forget this is Wrestlemania in Rock's hometown. Rock needs to win in order to send the fans home happy.

Now. the next night you finally have Cena turn heel and beat up The Rock. Which Rock will be gone until around Summerslam. Cena flips the crowd and the men love him while kids and women hate him. (this is not as bad as people make it, you have other faces to make money: Punk, Orton, HHH)

Cena vs Rock Rematch is at Summerslam where Cena wins. The Finale is at Survivor Series where Cena gradually from SS to SS turns face again and probably wins but everyone loves him. Here's the key.....CENA KEEPS CORE ELEMENTS OF HIS HEEL CHARACTER BUT JUST DOES GOOD THINGS. But you say "hey how will that work?....Well there were these two guys like Rock and Austin who basically did just that and are now considered the G.O.A.T.!!!

 

[RuskinArms]

I believe that the rock should win purely cause its in Miami and the fans will go home pissed otherwise. But in doing this they can also build towards a Cena heel turn and give a young face a major push.

What i propose is that in the weeks building up to WM Zach Ryder gets a title opportunity whether this be for Punk's title or for Swaggers title. Either way Ryder asks for Cena to be at ringside for confidence. So he does and the match goes ahead but at the end of the match one way or another Cena causes Ryder to lose the match. Ryder flips out and holds Cena personally responsible and that's the last we here of that until . . .

Mania main event comes along and we have an epic match with Cena on top of the rock but the ref is down and he cant get the pinfall so decides to cheat and get the chair to finish Rock. Cena is setting Rock up for a chair shot when Ryder comes out of nowhere hits the rough ryder, Rock hits the people's elbow and the Rock wins and WM fades out with the Rock celebrating with Ryder. The crowd go home happy the AE goes home happy and everyone tunes in to Raw the next night to see how Cena reacts.

Thus laying the foundation for a Cena heel turn and a possible long feud with Ryder, which will also give Ryder a big push against the current top superstar of the WWE. This would also not rule out Cena challenging the Rock for a rematch down the line possibly at SummerSlam or Survivor Series and a passing of the torch match then.

Thoughts??

 

[MizMark]

If WWE is going to go with 3 Rock/Cena matches over the next year or so, which has been reported, then I think one of three scenarios can happen and the fans will generally be happy.

1, Cena wins not cleanly and turns heel, leading to The Rock defeating Cena in the second match, and then Cena can defeat Rock in the third one and it'd be possible to turn Cena back face again during the process.
2, Rock goes over Cena and turns heel to the general audience, and then Cena wins the remaining two matches.
3, Rock steals a victory(roll up, dodgy call etc.) and Cena blows up, destroys Rock and turns heel.

 

[phoenixphreek]

I think, after reading literally this entire thread, that the only way for this to work, ie keep the most amount of people pleased, is by having more than one match.
give rocky the win at his return match, in his hometown, and then cena wins the second bout (prolly at Summer Slam). I don't see the purpose in doing three matches though. that way someone still has to go over someone but this way (2 matches) they remain relatively even and I think most fans would be satisfied with getting two matches out of them.
obviously the rock's schedule is the conflict here but I imagine he'd be down to do it if it means he gets the win at Mania in Miami.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

There is no way that Cena is getting out of this unscathed. No matter what he does someone will hate it. I like the idea of the guy above me said that there will have to be more than one match. I think the idea of this match was thought up before actually being thought through. I think they did it to satisfy the ppl that had been begging for it for years now. I think they figured that a year would be more than enough to figure out where to take it and how to end it but I dont think they have. I think theyre still trying to think of a way to get out of this alive.

But there is no way to get out without failing in some area, without pissing somebody off. But you gotta do whats best for the company. You cant put cena over the rock in his hometown of miami as a face. You cant turn him heel because too many ppl would still cheer him. Cena on the other hand will get booed face or heel. So what do you do? I say turn him heel at Elimination Chamber and have him face the rock as the heel of the match. Have it be a back and forth match with the rock barely getting the win. Kids will cheer the rock because he's a face and its in miami so Cena's getting booed no matter what you do so you might as well get a good heel turn out of the deal but do it at EC and have him hate on the rock all the way up til WM and let the rock go over him after a grueling match. That's just my idea and my opinion I will never be a wwe writer but that just makes sense to me.

 

[Dagger Dias]

1. Cena goes over clean. Now, Cena is "being forced down peoples throats" again (total BS) and "still sucks because all he did was beat an over the hill movie star."

2. Rock goes over Cena clean. "Cena sucks he lost to an over the hill movie star."

3. Cena stays face. Cena "sucks, I've Cena-nuff, blah blah blah."

4. Cena goes heel. "We saw that coming a mile away" and then the Make a Wish foundation loses its #1 personality while millions of kids - whose live event tickets cost the same as every obnoxiously smarky 22 year-old - are left without an icon, since nobody else fits the bill.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that Cena cannot possibly "win" in this match or its aftermath. The people who dislike him are going to be rather upset if defeats The Rock and remains a face. That much is obvious at least. They wouldn't see it as "Cena beat an over the hill movie star" they would see it as more of the same booking with Cena that they got sick of. One of four things will happen. The Rock wins, Cena wins as a face, Cena wins as a heel, or neither guy win and some sort of annoying booking decision ruins everything. Cena losing is probably the worst of the four outcomes. The Rock has nothing to prove and Cena needs the win far more whether he turns heel or not. Even an outcome where neither emerge victorious would be better in my opinion.

Now, then there's the endless list of heel turn theories floating around concerning the match. I think they have been building up slowly to a turn. It's the perfect opportunity for one because Cena will be facing potentially the most hostile crowd he has ever seen. Segments where other wrestlers such as Piper or Kane asking him if the hate is getting to him can only show that they want him to eventually get (kayfabe) fed up, which leads to the heel turn. If they ever were going to do it, this is a great time for it. WWE will have needed to build up a new top face to replace him by then, although they will still have the "Cena sucks" shirts which would quickly become the top selling item since they are doing well to begin with.

I don't see it as a lose/lose situation for Cena. He will be in a dream match that will be one for the history books. The Rock winning is the only really bad scenario that I can think of. Cena needs to win regardless of his face/heel status due to his standing as the face of the federation. Just as The Rock defeated Hogan in a match where he was the less popular, Cena should go over. It's honestly a win/win scenario if Cena pulls it off. If he wins and stays face, he gets the win over a legend among legends. If he turns heel, he gets potentially the biggest heel turn since Hogan. It's going to be historic no matter what happens and I'd rather go into it not feeling sorry for Cena. It's the opportunity of a lifetime.

 

[jbartlett7]

I wouldn't go as far as to say that Cena cannot possibly "win" in this match or its aftermath. The people who dislike him are going to be rather upset if defeats The Rock and remains a face. That much is obvious at least. They wouldn't see it as "Cena beat an over the hill movie star" they would see it as more of the same booking with Cena that they got sick of. One of four things will happen. The Rock wins, Cena wins as a face, Cena wins as a heel, or neither guy win and some sort of annoying booking decision ruins everything. Cena losing is probably the worst of the four outcomes. The Rock has nothing to prove and Cena needs the win far more whether he turns heel or not. Even an outcome where neither emerge victorious would be better in my opinion.

Now, then there's the endless list of heel turn theories floating around concerning the match. I think they have been building up slowly to a turn. It's the perfect opportunity for one because Cena will be facing potentially the most hostile crowd he has ever seen. Segments where other wrestlers such as Piper or Kane asking him if the hate is getting to him can only show that they want him to eventually get (kayfabe) fed up, which leads to the heel turn. If they ever were going to do it, this is a great time for it. WWE will have needed to build up a new top face to replace him by then, although they will still have the "Cena sucks" shirts which would quickly become the top selling item since they are doing well to begin with.

I don't see it as a lose/lose situation for Cena. He will be in a dream match that will be one for the history books. The Rock winning is the only really bad scenario that I can think of. Cena needs to win regardless of his face/heel status due to his standing as the face of the federation. Just as The Rock defeated Hogan in a match where he was the less popular, Cena should go over. It's honestly a win/win scenario if Cena pulls it off. If he wins and stays face, he gets the win over a legend among legends. If he turns heel, he gets potentially the biggest heel turn since Hogan. It's going to be historic no matter what happens and I'd rather go into it not feeling sorry for Cena. It's the opportunity of a lifetime.

See, thats where i disagree, if Cena were to turn heel, yes, it probably would make all the little kids cry, and stop turning up to the arenas in his merchandise, but i think all of the older consensus that are currently booing him, would love it if he turned into the old heel Cena that just didn't give a shit, and start cheering him again.

 

[Kenny Powers]

1. Cena goes over clean. Now, Cena is "being forced down peoples throats" again (total BS) and "still sucks because all he did was beat an over the hill movie star."

2. Rock goes over Cena clean. "Cena sucks he lost to an over the hill movie star."

3. Cena stays face. Cena "sucks, I've Cena-nuff, blah blah blah."

4. Cena goes heel. "We saw that coming a mile away" and then the Make a Wish foundation loses its #1 personality while millions of kids - whose live event tickets cost the same as every obnoxiously smarky 22 year-old - are left without an icon, since nobody else fits the bill.

So, in this thread, I'm asking - is there any scenario in which John Cena actually comes out on top?

I don't think Cena or The Rock could go over clean in this match. I don't expect either one of them to win cleanly or even get the 123. I think it could end with a DQ or with someone being involved costing The Rock or Cena the match. Maybe a big star coming back like Lesnar, which is far fetched but anything could happen. If Rock is staying then there would be no way he could beat Cena clean or Cena could be him clean.

Someone is going to have to turn on the fans and screw someone over. If that isn't the Rock screwing over Cena, then it would have to be Cena screwing over The Rock. There will always be Cena fans that will cheer him over The Rock no matter what he does. He will always be booed from non fans. I think if this match is done right, it could elevate Cena even more regardless of what his character is.