Cena Can't Win

[IrishCanadian25]

And I'm not saying he can't as in "I don't want him to win." He just can't win. No matter what. He's painted into a corner.

Let me preface with this - I'm a John Cena guy. I haven't always been - loved the white rapper gimmick, and went kinda soft on him when he won his first title. always respected him, but never fell on either side of the love or the hate machine. That's all changed in the past year-and-a-half, and I'm firmly a Cena guy. I would order a "Rise Above Hate" shirt, except I'm holding out for a better S(h)eamus shirt or a new Jericho shirt. Whatever, point is, I like the guy a great deal, especially his grace in holding himself above the unwarranted anger and sanguine venom 40% of the fans have spewed his way.

That said - he can't win with The Rock at Mania. Let's review scenarios:

1. Cena goes over clean. Now, Cena is "being forced down peoples throats" again (total BS) and "still sucks because all he did was beat an over the hill movie star."

2. Rock goes over Cena clean. "Cena sucks he lost to an over the hill movie star."

3. Cena stays face. Cena "sucks, I've Cena-nuff, blah blah blah."

4. Cena goes heel. "We saw that coming a mile away" and then the Make a Wish foundation loses its #1 personality while millions of kids - whose live event tickets cost the same as every obnoxiously smarky 22 year-old - are left without an icon, since nobody else fits the bill.

So, in this thread, I'm asking - is there any scenario in which John Cena actually comes out on top?

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

And I'm not saying he can't as in "I don't want him to win." He just can't win. No matter what. He's painted into a corner.

Let me preface with this - I'm a John Cena guy. I haven't always been - loved the white rapper gimmick, and went kinda soft on him when he won his first title. always respected him, but never fell on either side of the love or the hate machine. That's all changed in the past year-and-a-half, and I'm firmly a Cena guy. I would order a "Rise Above Hate" shirt, except I'm holding out for a better S(h)eamus shirt or a new Jericho shirt. Whatever, point is, I like the guy a great deal, especially his grace in holding himself above the unwarranted anger and sanguine venom 40% of the fans have spewed his way.

That said - he can't win with The Rock at Mania. Let's review scenarios:

1. Cena goes over clean. Now, Cena is "being forced down peoples throats" again (total BS) and "still sucks because all he did was beat an over the hill movie star."

2. Rock goes over Cena clean. "Cena sucks he lost to an over the hill movie star."

3. Cena stays face. Cena "sucks, I've Cena-nuff, blah blah blah."

4. Cena goes heel. "We saw that coming a mile away" and then the Make a Wish foundation loses its #1 personality while millions of kids - whose live event tickets cost the same as every obnoxiously smarky 22 year-old - are left without an icon, since nobody else fits the bill.

So, in this thread, I'm asking - is there any scenario in which John Cena actually comes out on top?

This is actually to me what is going to make the Rock vs Cena match at mania better than Rock/Hogan. There is no real possibility that Cena can win without there being a real uproar,but it wouldn't make sense to have the rock win would it? To be honest I don't think WWE themselves have come up with a satisfying ending to the match yet.

 

[Davi323]

Depends on your perspective. You simply can't please all of the people, all of the time, nor should you expect to. The problem is, you can make a lot of the same complaints about just about anyone, because people just like to bitch. It doesn't matter what they are bitching about, they just like to bitch. There is no scenario where Cena can please 100% of the fanbase, it's foolish to try. What you can do, is maximize the approval of the fanbase, if that is what you want to do. I think Cena, staying face, and getting a clean win over the Rock is the best chance at pleasing the most people. Not all of the people, but most.

In fact, I think there is a VERY good chance that Cena is already booked to win that match for the simple reason that he is the guy that is there, not the Rock. Cena is part of the WWE's present and future, while the Rock is a part of the WWE's past. They can't put the Rock over Cena, it would be an insult to their current product. Cena has to get over in the same way Rock had to get over on Hogan. Rock's job is to make Cena look good, it's not Cena's job to make Rock look good. A clean Cena win is better for the WWE than a Rock win is. If Cena getting the win over the Rock at Wrestlemania improves the WWE's current product by silencing a lot of the silly Attitude Era marks, I would count that as Cena coming out on top...

 

[Dream]

I think WWE would lose a lot of long time fans by putting Cena over the Rock. Also, just the way this is all built up, it seems as if the Rock should simply destroy Cena.

I really have no fucking clue how WWE should go about this match.

And while it's like Rock vs Hogan, Hogan was out of his prime for much longer than the Rock has been. I would say at least 50% of WWE fans were watching while Rock was around.

 

[The Eighties]

WWE have painted Cena into this corner, they turned him face and then took away everything that made him popular to begin with, then when the crowd crapped on him they pretended it wasn't happening and simply rammed him down everyone's throat for so long that no matter what they do many are just tired of him to the point they'll boo him regardless.

It's a shame as Cena clearly loves the business and is a creative guy, but he's been rode so hard into a singular role that I don't see how he can change things, other than the drastic action of taking a year off and coming back with something fresh.

 

[Clem]

I think Cena will (unfortunately) win at Wrestlemania, but it'll be a tainted victory after a heel turn.

The crowd will be 100% behind the Rock and hating on Cena's every move. There's no avoiding it, so why bother. This is the perfect moment for a Cena heel turn and Vince McMahon is smart enough to know that.

It'll be ballsy ending the biggest show of the year with the villain winning, but it has to be done.

 

[VinnieSunshine]

WWE has cornered John Cena with no escape route for him to use.

Lets break down your scenarios...

1. Cena goes over clean. Now, Cena is "being forced down peoples throats" again (total BS) and "still sucks because all he did was beat an over the hill movie star."

We're right back to where we started. To counter this I think Cena should do the right thing, shake Rocks hand...and then hit him. The reverse has now happened. Kids will boo him because it was dishonorable and adults cheer him because he showed Rock that WWE and the fans dont need him.

2. Rock goes over Cena clean. "Cena sucks he lost to an over the hill movie star."

Rock is FAR from being an over the hill movie star, but I see what you're saying. Rock doesn't need, nor should he go over Cena. Even if Cena loses I hardly see it as he sucks. Rock is a legend and getting beat by a legend proves thats why they are where they are. Again, I dont believe a legend should win in the end. I still think If Rock does win though, Cena gets booed because he couldn't get the job done.

3. Cena stays face. Cena "sucks, I've Cena-nuff, blah blah blah."

If WWE doesn't turn him hel thats the way its going to stay. Cena can stay heel, he just needs to re-invent himself/his character. Which is what I think WWE is doing. I dont think a full heel turn is coming.

4. Cena goes heel. "We saw that coming a mile away" and then the Make a Wish foundation loses its #1 personality while millions of kids - whose live event tickets cost the same as every obnoxiously smarky 22 year-old - are left without an icon, since nobody else fits the bill.

A Cena turn needs to come out of nowhere. Right now we are all anticipating WHEN it will happen. Let Cena attack Ryder or another face.

Let Cena turn heel for awhile. Punk is more than qualified to take Cena's spot. Its easy for a heel to turn on the fans, while at the same time being honorable. Look at Tribute to the Troops and the footage we are shown. Heels and faces TOGETHER hanging out and being social with troops. They are out of character and we are shown that.

This is the best route I can see Cena going. Cena is still going to get cheers, he will NEVER be fully booed.

 

[RD_21]

Cena doesn't need to turn heel but I can't take speaches like yesterday where he still put his god damn head in the sand saying everything is fine you can boo me I love it, may I have another kick in the nuts please.

Tell the people who boos you that they can go f themselves, that they are a bunch of idiot and make them boos you like you intend (not X-Pac heat anymore) and that people who want to cheer you can still cheer you. He just need to smile everything off and make his stupid joke, show some agression and passion more sincerely than he does (one minute he will get mad because someone throw water in his face but he smile when The Rock cost him the title at Mania).

As far as Wrestlemania goes Cena need to lose and they need to go in a bigger feud where Cena will win match 2 and 3, then he would gain something.

If he beat the Rock, big deal he beat a part time wrestler and it would be forgotten, but if he turn heel (or not) and lose to the Rock or win cheap while creating a bigger feud that's how hw will win something out of it imo.

 

[FanSince99]

It is an uncomfortable situation for Cena and will be worst on the night of Mania. At Survivor Series The Rock wrestled as a special guest and not a wrestler. He basically wrestled 10 minutes and didn't take any bumps. I understand he has to do that to protect his career but if he has to do that at Wrestlemania it will be a nightmare for Cena and the fans.

Imagine for 20-25 minutes Rock has all the offense and for the last 5 minutes we get "super-cena" The fans will be extremely pissed off and may even send a few Cena fans that are on the fence over board in to straight hate. I feel bad for Cena because he has passion for the business but there is no clear way for him to come out in a good light.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

It is an uncomfortable situation for Cena and will be worst on the night of Mania. At Survivor Series The Rock wrestled as a special guest and not a wrestler. He basically wrestled 10 minutes and didn't take any bumps. I understand he has to do that to protect his career but if he has to do that at Wrestlemania it will be a nightmare for Cena and the fans.

Imagine for 20-25 minutes Rock has all the offense and for the last 5 minutes we get "super-cena" The fans will be extremely pissed off and may even send a few Cena fans that are on the fence over board in to straight hate. I feel bad for Cena because he has passion for the business but there is no clear way for him to come out in a good light.

This is something I have not taken into account at all. This might be the most dangerous crowd of all time. I think it would be a tragedy to this match if a couple of real cena haters decide to jump the guardrail and ruin the match for everyone. And you do have a point,The rock can't dominate this match or else the eventual Cena win will just make more people angry. I think we have a serious problem on our hands gentleman.

 

[Fisheatppl]

Obviously there is no way Cena loses this match clean, unless Vince McMahon loves crapping on his current product and secretly wants to return to the AE himself. And obviously The Rock won't cheat to win, because The Rock needs to remain face so he continues to draw as much as possible (not that he won't if he's heel, but it just won't happen). So Cena doesn't lose.

So how can Cena come out on top? By your scenario's Cena can't just win clean. Otherwise "of course SuperCena". And he can't turn heel because "we all saw that coming (which will happen no matter WHEN he turns heel, tomorrow or 15 years from now)."

That leaves 2 options. Either Cena turns heel BEFORE WM, or something goes down during the match. Maybe Mr. McMahon comes out and fires Cena, creating sympathy for him of some sort. But that may turn Rock heel, so have the Rock take offense to being "saved" when Cena was seemingly going to win, so he Rock Bottom's VKM, creating a bond and allegiance between Rock and Cena. Now Cena isn't heel, Rock isn't heel, both sides win. No clear winner, but everyone who is supposed to comes out on top, and now they are partners of a sort.

However, that sounds dumb, so really, according to your scenario, the only way for Cena to come out "on top" is to turn heel before WM, cheat to beat Rock (as he's a heel no big deal), then utterly dominate Rock post-match to gain even more heat, of which there will be PLENTY in Miami.

 

[Davi323]

And while it's like Rock vs Hogan, Hogan was out of his prime for much longer than the Rock has been. I would say at least 50% of WWE fans were watching while Rock was around.

Except unlike the Rock, Hogan was still an active wrestler, who had been consistently performing the entire time, not someone who took off for 7 years and never wrestled a match. Hogan was gone from the WWE, but not from wrestling. What's worse, booking an aging but still active wrestler to get over on your biggest star, or booking a guy that hasn't really wrestled at all for 7 years to do it? Unless the Rock is going to return to the WWE full time, it makes no sense to have Cena lay down to him.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

First thing is this match ISN'T going to be as big as Rock vs. Hogan. Rock and Hogan are 2 names that are bigger than wrestling itself, 2 of the greatest entertainers the business has ever seen in 2 of the greatest era's in modern wrestling. Cena isn't bigger than the WWE, never will be and is just the top guy in today's era, an era that's not very popular when you compare it to the 80's and Attitude era, its not the same thing.

Now onto the question at hand I don't think the WWE thought it out completely when they signed this match. I think IC25 has a point in thinking that this is a no win scenario for the WWE. Sure Cena has to win, that much is certain but the problem is that Cena is no where near the Rock in any way, shape or form. He's good, hes a consummate professional, a company man through and through but he's no Rock. When Cena wins its going to feel like WWE is shoving him down our throats and making Cena out to be bigger and better than what he already is. Cena is the best guy to be top dog in this particular era but at the end of the day he is no The Rock and he is no Hulk Hogan. Rock in his prime could rival the popularity of Hogan so even when the Rock got booed at WM18 his win still felt justified and it felt like it needed to happen, the Rock was the successor of Hulk Hogan, he was just as popular and became even more popular and bigger than Hogan ever was (an almost impossible feat), that match felt right.

John Cena vs. The Rock doesn't feel the same, it will do great buyrates and great attendance numbers but no matter how great the Rock makes Cena look it will feel forced because the match itself is forced. Cena doesn't feel like he is the successor of the Rock, he feels like the guy who is filling in until the WWE finds their next big thing. Because of this he is screwed, his win will feel undeserved, unjustified and completely unnecessary. It has more of a chance to hurt Cena than help him.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

I believe that the Rock should beat Cena in a heelish way. In that way:
a) You keep Cena as a face.
b) Cena doesn't actually job to a part-timer.
c) The stage for more things and more matches to come is set.
d) And even by that ending Miami will still love The Rock and hate Cena.

 

[studwoodward2]

but what if say Rock is getting over on Cena and all of a sudden Stone cold comes down the aisle and stuns Rock. This allows Cena to get the win, and at the same time, have Austin pass him the torch again. This could also be a way to get Cena over, as most AE fans love Stone cold a hell of a lot more that Rock.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

So basically, whatever they do, people will be talking, AWESOME. That's a good thing. Cena should go over clean. Heel turn or not, I don't care, it's going to get an amazing reaction.

You guys are kinda dumb in your analysis too. ANY reaction is a good reaction. he's obviously not getting "x pac heat" because it's been going on for like 7 years. It's just his reaction. No different than any other heel/face.

 

[JUSTINMFNBEEMER]

Except unlike the Rock, Hogan was still an active wrestler, who had been consistently performing the entire time, not someone who took off for 7 years and never wrestled a match. Hogan was gone from the WWE, but not from wrestling. What's worse, booking an aging but still active wrestler to get over on your biggest star, or booking a guy that hasn't really wrestled at all for 7 years to do it? Unless the Rock is going to return to the WWE full time, it makes no sense to have Cena lay down to him.

ok first im the biggest hulkamaniac out there, lets get that out of the way before i say this. hogan was a broken down man, his knees and back were shot and he was absolutely slower then hell in the ring, you knew he was done. now the rock, still in his 30's, really never had any major injuries in his career i can remember, why couldnt he beat cena? do you think he would sign a contract to come to his home town to lose to a guy that has been shitting on him for years? use your heads people

 

[Davi323]

ok first im the biggest hulkamaniac out there, lets get that out of the way before i say this. hogan was a broken down man, his knees and back were shot and he was absolutely slower then hell in the ring, you knew he was done. now the rock, still in his 30's, really never had any major injuries in his career i can remember, why couldnt he beat cena? do you think he would sign a contract to come to his home town to lose to a guy that has been shitting on him for years? use your heads people

Ring rust. Plus the obvious. Wrestling is scripted. What advantage does Vince McMahon have to book his biggest star, his biggest moneymaker to lose to a guy that has been out of the business for 7+ years? How does that help grow the WWE for the future?

It doesn't.

The Rock is a special attraction who will disappear just as quickly as he returned. Giving him the win does nothing for the WWE. not unless the Rock is going to become a full time performer again. If he is going to stick around, wrestle every week, and be an active member of the roster, then it might make sense to have him get the win, but not as a guy who is going to disappear for years at a time.

What we are going to see is the Rock and Cena put on a pretty good match, Cena will get the win, and the Rock will shake his hand, showing that Cena has earned his respect, that he could go toe to toe with the great one. The ending to Hogan/Rock at Wrestlemania X8 will be the blueprint for this one. Cena gets the win, the proverbial torch gets passed (again) but neither one really loses any face.

 

[richunclescrooge]

The only way for Cena to come out on top is to turn heel. It doesn't even have to be incredibly over the top. At the end of the match he can hit his finisher, go for a cover, Rock kicks out at 2. Cena looks frustrated. Covers again, Rock kicks out at 2 again. Cena looks frustrated and worried. Then Cena's expression changes to look contmplative. He goes for a cover a third time, as the ref counts 2, Cena grabs the rope and gets the 3 on Rock. He could even deny it ever happpened and ignore it like he ignores the fans that hate him, which should turn him heel with everyone.


Another idea that could work, though I like my first one much better, would be for Rock to cheat either purposefully (low blow behind ref's back, etc.) or inadvertantly (run in when Rock and ref are down, etc.) and win the match that way. He'd most likely still get cheered over Cena which would piss Cena off enough that he'd snap.

 

[Skairipa Matrix]

i agree with the original poster their is no way cena actullay comes out of mania a winner even if he wins the match and no matter who wins and how they do it your all gonna bitch because the iwc can never be pleased but i think the rock needs to win its probably gonna be his last match ever and cena winning in miami against the rock is gonna cause alot of problems...this reminds me of his match last year against cm punk at money in the bank in chicago and his match against rob van dam at one night stand in philly hes going to get booed out of the building and if he wins there might be a riot....heres to hoping cena gets hurt and has to miss the match! (mainly because this match just bores me id much rather see dwayne face punk atleast theres true hate between them)

 

[PaigeLovesCenton]

Wow..I've never thought of that. And your right...Cena loses = CeNation is sad but lives with it, Team Bring It gets a big head and hates the CeNation even MORE. Cena wins = holy sh*t Team Bring It RIOTS, and that would be horrible. Disqualification/Countout= fans again, will be pissed. Its like no matter what, you can't win....

 

[BASSER911414]

I say let the rock win this match and the next night on raw cena turns on the fans...

Let the rock dominate most of the match (which he will regardless of who wins eventually) and then out of the blue cena supercena's up. Let him AA rock at least twice and the rock still kicks out. Now Cena decides he has had enough... He goes for the chair. Contemplates for a while about using it then takes a look at the rock slowly getting up and with this look in his eye decides its time to end it. As he enters the ring and about to smash the rocks head, spinebuster, peoples elbow, win. Send the miami crowd home happy, send the Attitude Era marks happy and send guys like me who grew up on the rock and dont care about his leaving or promising never to leave again but just like seeing him around because it reminds them of days long gone (Im an attitude era mark i admit but it doesnt mean i dont like the current product either) , home happy.

The next night on raw, Cena is pissed off. He starts on the crowd about how he tried pleasing the fans but they never respected him and hes done listening to them and bla bla bla whatever u want him to say. Ryder comes out to tell him to chill out. Short segment between them in which cena tells ryder to shut up and get lost. Ryder (who had won his WM 28 match) doesnt. In the end Cena attacks him, violently. Like 10 chair shots to the back. AA on the steel steps or something like that. And there is your Cena heel turn. After that do whatever u want.

Maybe somewhere down the line Rock/Cena could be revisited but only as a midcard main event feud like rock/austin at wm 19.

 

[RD_21]

Ring rust. Plus the obvious. Wrestling is scripted. What advantage does Vince McMahon have to book his biggest star, his biggest moneymaker to lose to a guy that has been out of the business for 7+ years? How does that help grow the WWE for the future?

It doesn't.

Let me ask you then, what does the WWE and Cena win in the long term by having Cena go over using the 7 years logic?

Of course you could have The Rock push Cena to his limits but in the end Cena will beat a guy who hasn't wrestle for 7 years.

If the WWE and Vince are smart and have any long term vision they've already signed him for 3 matches and he will either win clean and force a gimmick change (or heel turn from Cena) or Cena will cheat to win and turn heel saying he couldn't live with himself if that part time guy would have won.

Then at Summerslam the loser of Mania win and Cena win the third match at Mania the next year.

So to answer your question, Cena winning one match clean would do nothing good either. He need a cheap win or a best of 3 to really come out with something meaningful.

 

[Suxen Redael]

The answer is to have Cena turn heel and win clean the same night...how do you do that? New Finisher. Face Cena vs Face Rock, most likely the crowd will shit on Cena the entire night. Have the boos finally get to Cena since he is working his ass off and they still cheer Rock, so towards the end of the match, have a new "SuperCena" take over. Like a new 5 moves of doom or something followed by a devastating, powerful finishing move that knocks the Rock the fuck out. Crowd goes damn. Expecting the 5 moves and an AA to guarantee a Cena win, have Cena just go down and pin Rock. Crowd is confused and angry as hell, while Cena looks at them with a fuck you face and leaves. Epic.

 

[arttagboy]

Here's how I'd like it to play out.

Cena and Rock go at it, big-time. Rock starts dominating like only he can. The brawl spills over, and the referee gets knocked out. Cena hits the AA and goes for the cover. No ref to count, but we all know he won. Cena turns his back to Rocky and calls for the ref. Rock recovers, and gives him the rock bottom, just as the ref runs out. Rock gets the win. Hometown is satisfied. Cenation is pissed, but accept it. After the match, Rock offers a hand to John Cena. Cena punches him in the face, beats him down, locks in the STF, and brutalizes rock. Then runs out.
Rock wins. Cena heel turn in FULL FORCE. Cenation leaves more or less happy because they know Cena should've gotten the win.