Best Overall/Pure wrestler in TNA.

[Goliath Uterus]

I wanna know 2 things from you guys, who is the best overall wrestler, as far as how over they are, charecter etc. and who is the best pure wrestler, as in who has the best in ring ability.

The best overall imo, is The Black Pope, he's got a great charecter, very over, and has AMAZING in ring work and a great moveset, his interviews/promos are all very good and entertaining as well. Pope is the whole package.

The best in ring performer probably has to be Desmond Wolfe, he's powerful, technical, and speedy, he's a great worker.

Well thats my opinion, now gimme yours, who is the best overall and who is the best in ring performer?

 

[Krobra]

Kurt Angle across the board. He was one of my favorite wrestlers and when he went to TNA, he only got better. He has great mic skills, great in the ring ability, and is TNA's True Face of the company, or should be. Without Kurt Angle, TNA would suffer a lot. Now that he is back, ratings should go up a bit.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

The Best Overall Wrestler in TNA is beyond no shadow of doubt, Kurt Angle. The best overall wrestler in TNA beyond no shadow of doubt has been Kurt Angle since he debuted back in 2006, and continues to be Kurt Angle through to this day. There isn't a talent on the roster – not Flair, not Anderson, not Hardy or even RVD who can elicit a response from the crowd on the drop of a dime the way Angle can, and subsequently back up every word with a PPV five-star match no matter who his opponent is. While guys like Pope and Wolfe have great talent and are likely to be exciting wrestlers for the future of the company, Angle continues to be the biggest asset to the company through-and-through.

The Best Pure Wrestler in TNA is Desmond Wolfe based solely on his fantastic mat work and the fact he's the best technician on the roster as far as I'm concerned, all of which makes all the sense in the world seeing as he came from ROH as one of their (if not the) best talents on the roster next to Brian Danielson.

 

[Tiger Chaos Theory]

The most over wrestler in TNA has to be RVD. He gets almost non-stop chants and gets pops from sneezing.

The best in ring performer is probably A.J. Styles. He can excel in every aspect of wrestling from high flying to technical prowess. He has some of the best matches TNA has ever put on under his belt and can consistently put on great match after great match.

 

[MancMark]

The most over guy in TNA is probably RVD. The best overall wrestler in the company has to be Angle surely? He's good on the mic and he can have a great match with anybody. He'll even make Big Rob Terry look great when he goes against him. Above all, he's still a big draw. People want to see the guy wrestle anyone and everyone. That's why this whole Top 10 thing he's doing is great.

The best pure wrestler in the company is probably Desmond Wolfe. Love the fella inside the ring. Love the fella full stop to be honest.

 

[dionlyone18]

This shouldnt be a question..the best pure wrestler is Kurt Angle..the most over is a toss up between The Pope and Mr. Anderson and Samoa Joe..THe only reason IMO RVD is remotley over is because is entrance where people mark out for it...I just plain dont like Jeff Hardy becuase he had it all in WWE and ruined it with drugs..hes a screw up and doesnt even deserve to be wrestling or even metioned as a over wrestler

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

Most over is RVD....simply put..he's great...

Pure? i have to say between kurt angle and wolfe...both great technical wrestlers...tna just havent let wolfe show us!!

 

[wrestlemaniac]

most over...that has to be rvd or anderson....hell the assholes seem to drown out the creatures of the night easily. RVD gets the crowd chanting at entrance, mid match and post match. Overall wrestler...without a doubt that's angle. Here is an olympic gold medalist who came to tna and all of a sudden adapted and started doing flip dives and suicide dives along with the occasional 450 splash, always puts on 5 star matches

 

[Greenlight13]

I honestly won't accept answers other than Kurt Angle or AJ Styles. In fact, I barely accept AJ Styles as an alternative to Kurt Angle. This seems far too simple a question.

He is the best wrestler in the world in terms of pure in-ring technique. He has the world's best ground game, he has an exciting set of signature moves, perhaps the best submission besides the Sharpshooter, he can go fast-paced, he can go slow, he can be stiff, he can be subtle. He has legitimacy and credibility thanks to his amateur background and decade in the wrestling business winning titles. He can talk, he has charisma, he has character. He's TNA's biggest star besides Hogan and Flair.

There's simply no contest because of the fact he can go in the ring against literally anyone and put on an epic match, plus people actually care about him and every wrestling fan knows his name. Calling Bryan Danielson the best in the world was all well in good, but as much as it pains me to say it, most people had no idea who he was. To be the best overall wrestler, you must surely be considered a star or a name, and Angle is as I said the biggest active name TNA has.

He is their most versatile performer because of his wrestling and the fact he can play a top heel or a top face with equal skill. He can and has put the company on his back, and can and has play a more subtle supporting role, helping build new talent. He's made it his mission to make TNA better, and was doing it long before Hogan and crew arrived.

So basically, he can do absolutely everything, do it well, and people care.

AJ is a very good wrestler, far more technically sound than people realise. He is responsible for most of the big moments that made TNA a word of mouth sensation in 2005. He's far more athletic than Jeff Hardy could ever hope to be and he's been TNA's MVP and go-to guy. He, like Kurt, can have a great match with anybody and everybody. He's proven a better than expected heel, and is of course a really good face. He has charisma and a star presence, but my knock would be he doesn't have the reputation or name value of Kurt Angle in the wrestling community at large. And as good as he is technically, he can't match Angle.

Kurt Angle is a wrestler you build a company around. Nuff said.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I wanna know 2 things from you guys, who is the best overall wrestler, as far as how over they are, charecter etc. and who is the best pure wrestler, as in who has the best in ring ability.

The best overall imo, is The Black Pope, he's got a great charecter, very over, and has AMAZING in ring work and a great moveset, his interviews/promos are all very good and entertaining as well. Pope is the whole package.

The best in ring performer probably has to be Desmond Wolfe, he's powerful, technical, and speedy, he's a great worker.

Well thats my opinion, now gimme yours, who is the best overall and who is the best in ring performer?

We fucking get it. YOU LIKE THE POPE! One more stupid topic about the different ways you like Pope and you're gone. Understand?

That being said, the answers to these questions are RVD and Kurt Angle. RVD is over as hell because of his look, attitude, and his reputation as a pot smoker.

Kurt Angle won a Gold Medal. In the Olympics. In amateur Wrestling. So Angle's the best pure wrestler in the business today. And will be until he retires.

 

[JackBurton]

The best professional wrestler in TNA and probably the business as a whole is without doubt Kurt Angle. The guy gets an A or A+ in every department.

tbh I think anyone who says any different is a little confused as to what makes a "wrestler". Wrestling ability doesnt even factor into it for one reason - ITS FAKE. They are NOT wrestling each other they are WORKING.

Kurt Angle is the most believable in the ring and on the mic. Period.

Believability draws. End of. Wont bother replying to anyone trying to tell me AJ or some other spot monkey is better.

Just a quick side note: Kurt Angle can cut "money" promos and there just aint anyone still in the business who's under 50 that can or does.

 

[Vintage]

Kurt freaking Angle

There is nothing I can say that hasn't been already said. Just watch the man work for gods sake and enjoy him while he's still in his prime. AJ Styles is good, Angle is great. I know it's only a storyline but when Kurt passed on being the #2 seed and said he'd work his way up through the top ten and he cut that promo saying he'd do it for free, I really believed that it's how he truly feels about the business and working for TNA. He gives 110% each and every night and seems to genuinely love being in the ring.

The only other person who comes close currently signed to TNA is Desmond Wolfe. They actually have some depth when it comes to pure wrestlers I'm happy to say but none can lace Angles boots at this time.

 

[Remix]

The answer to both parts of the question is Kurt Angle. FOr the pure aspect, he's a gold medal winning olympian in wrestling. YOu can't get much better or purer than that.

On the overall section, he's the whole package. He can cut a good promo, do some high flying, work a character that's goofy (his original WWE heel run, for example) or serious (MEM, for example), is over and puts people over and is all in all a huge asset.

 

[sam_k7]

In my humble opinion, Mr. Anderson is the best overall. His carisma and ability to do watever he wants with the crowd, combined with good ring-work that will only improve makes him a star aswell as a wrestler.

and despite telling myself its a stupid notion, i cant help but be reminded of The Great One.

Pure Wrestler? im gunna have to give it to Wolfe. His matches are all amazing to watch (unless hes been nominated to job for TNAs golden boys).

However, i could not call myself a wrestling fan unless i gave a big mention to Angle in both respects. He has never been my favorite, but GODDAMN what a talent! a certain HOFer and patron of the industry.


(notice how i didnt spam? im getting good at this! LOL)

 

[Reddannihilation]

Believability draws. End of. Wont bother replying to anyone trying to tell me AJ or some other spot monkey is better.

Ah yes all AJ can do is aerial moves amirite?

I do think Angle is the best but there's a or perhaps "were" a ton of good technical wrestlers in TNA. Styles, Wolfe, Daniels, Joe. Angle is great, but with the exception of the occasional frogsplash and moonsault, his entire game revolves around slams and submissions. He's still the best, but Wolfe can go toe-to-toe with Kurt in terms of mat-wrestling, Joe's got a ton of great striking moves, especially some of his stiff-kicks and his power moves are usually right on the money.

AJ's probably the second best as he's demonstrated good mat technique, in-ring agility and a wide variety of moves.

So from the overrall perspective including mic skills, Angle's the man.

But as far as the best in-ring performer it's really a matter of preference, if you like power wrestlers Joe's the go to guy, technicians? Angle and Wolfe, cruiserweights? MCMG and GenMe and if you like guys who can wrestle with technicians but also incorporate more flashly moves that require technique but are also more entertaining then your average suplex then guys like AJ and RVD are where it's at.

 

[JackBurton]

Ah yes all AJ can do is aerial moves amirite?

I do think Angle is the best but there's a or perhaps "were" a ton of good technical wrestlers in TNA. Styles, Wolfe, Daniels, Joe. Angle is great, but with the exception of the occasional frogsplash and moonsault, his entire game revolves around slams and submissions. He's still the best, but Wolfe can go toe-to-toe with Kurt in terms of mat-wrestling, Joe's got a ton of great striking moves, especially some of his stiff-kicks and his power moves are usually right on the money.

AJ's probably the second best as he's demonstrated good mat technique, in-ring agility and a wide variety of moves.

So from the overrall perspective including mic skills, Angle's the man.

But as far as the best in-ring performer it's really a matter of preference, if you like power wrestlers Joe's the go to guy, technicians? Angle and Wolfe, cruiserweights? MCMG and GenMe and if you like guys who can wrestle with technicians but also incorporate more flashly moves that require technique but are also more entertaining then your average suplex then guys like AJ and RVD are where it's at.

Quoting myself: Two words; ITS FAKE.

None of these guys is or was a wrestler with the exception of Angle. Angle isnt a wrestler anymore - hes a worker. Which part of this don't internet fans understand? Its not a competitive sport. The argument of who can out wrestle who is redundant because these guys are working together not against one another. Fuck sake, Im sick of having to explain this kind of basic shit to people who talk as if they know what they're on about.

And just for your information, genius, there is FAR FAR more technique involved in "just your average" suplex than there ever is, was or will be in any high flying moves.

Your a move mark and clearly have no understanding what actually makes a great worker; as evidenced by the fact your claim that RVD or AJ are "where its at". A guy who notoriously CANT SELL (that's a major factor in being a worker - you talk as if your smart to the business why dont you know this??) and a guy who's spent 7, maybe 8 years of a 10 year career being UNABLE TO CUT A PROMO (Again, another HUGE factor in being a worker. Flair never wrestled people into buying tickets, he talked them into it. As did Hogan, Dusty, Austin, Rock so on and so forth)

Sorry to be rude but please dude, just don't. Thanks in advance.

The op has asked "who is the best pure wrestler in TNA". Considering this is a pro wrestling website I'm gonna go ahead and assume he aint talking about shoot wrestling - so most of the posts about "technicians" etc etc are pointless. No-one wins or loses - the bookers/promoters/writers (w/e) decide who wins. And no-one - and I mean NO-ONE out wrestles ANYONE. You can out WORK a guy sure, you cant out wrestle someone who's working WITH YOU to the same goal.

Its not a matter of opinion guys. That's how it works. Put your bias asside and answer the question. In my opinion, if the op asks about wrestlers in a Pro wrestling forum, hes clearly asking about work rate; and in that case hes asking who is the most believable (in a round about way).

If in fact he isn't, then hes in the wrong place asking the wrong question, because like I have pointed out numerous times in this very post: Its fake, there is indeed no wrestling taking place and if you believe there is then you are literally a mark. Wins and losses don't count (to an extent, obviously if you get squashed week in and out for 6 months your gonna look like shit, in most cases anyway)

3/4 of this post is only loosely related to the topic at best and for that I apologize to any "topic Nazis" but someone has to slap some sense into people who think acrobatics is "work". Acrobatics with no registering or selling and absolutely no direction or story is what killed the business. You watch it and think "wow that does look set up"

Then you look at Kurt Angle (just for example, because, to be fair a few of the guys mentioned are good at making it look real aswell. Just not AS good)

Now heres a guy who brings the one thing that all workers crave. They work so hard to achieve. Legitimacy. Believability. And even when he became established as a "pro wrestler" and people knew it was all "staged" or "set up" this guy (along with HBK and a few others at the time) made people BELIEVE that it was a sport - even when their head said otherwise.

That, that - is working.

Not dives, flips, power slams or w/e other crap you wanna drum up. Its what happens BETWEEN these maneuvers that is working.

I saw Terry Funk sell a PUNCH for 7 whole minutes and people fucking believed it. Its an art form and Angle is the last of a dead breed because guys like this guy who replied to me think that AJ Styles is on a par with Kurt fucking Angle.

He isn't. Could've been maybe, absolutely. Amazing athlete. So was Michael Jordan - does that mean he could've sold out Madison Square Garden pretending to get beat up or beat someone up? Cant for definite say no (not that arrogant) but christ, I would be confident of a bet on it though.

Now go ahead and tell me the business has changed and guys like AJ are the future blah blah.

Hasnt drawn shit. Some future you envision and clearly embrace.

Thanks for actively taking part in the destruction of an industry i have great feeling for.

 

[Reddannihilation]

Quoting myself: Two words; ITS FAKE.

None of these guys is or was a wrestler with the exception of Angle. Angle isnt a wrestler anymore - hes a worker. Which part of this don't internet fans understand? Its not a competitive sport. The argument of who can out wrestle who is redundant because these guys are working together not against one another. Fuck sake, Im sick of having to explain this kind of basic shit to people who talk as if they know what they're on about.

Last I checked I don't remember saying, "WRESTLING IZ SOO REEL" so great job wasting an entire paragraph on nothing.

And just for your information, genius, there is FAR FAR more technique involved in "just your average" suplex than there ever is, was or will be in any high flying moves.

Sure thing there, I'm certain that every wrestler who can perform a suplex can just as easily pull off a 450 splash and land it correctly.

Your a move mark and clearly have no understanding what actually makes a great worker; as evidenced by the fact your claim that RVD or AJ are "where its at".

Perhaps you might want to read it again, I said if you wanted to be "entertained" they were where it's at. I'm sorry but an hour long match of holds, the occasional suplex and a punch or kick or knee throughout are entertaining.

A guy who notoriously CANT SELL (that's a major factor in being a worker - you talk as if your smart to the business why dont you know this??) and a guy who's spent 7, maybe 8 years of a 10 year career being UNABLE TO CUT A PROMO (Again, another HUGE factor in being a worker. Flair never wrestled people into buying tickets, he talked them into it. As did Hogan, Dusty, Austin, Rock so on and so forth)

Yes, because the question of best "pure wrestler" relies on promos. I already said Angle was the best overrall. But from strict athleticism there are others who rival him.

The op has asked "who is the best pure wrestler in TNA". Considering this is a pro wrestling website I'm gonna go ahead and assume he aint talking about shoot wrestling - so most of the posts about "technicians" etc etc are pointless. No-one wins or loses - the bookers/promoters/writers (w/e) decide who wins. And no-one - and I mean NO-ONE out wrestles ANYONE. You can out WORK a guy sure, you cant out wrestle someone who's working WITH YOU to the same goal.

Actually I'd say the concept of a "pure" wrestler would lend itself as to who is the best athlete and in that sense numerous wrestlers in TNA could lay claim to it.

Its not a matter of opinion guys. That's how it works. Put your bias asside and answer the question. In my opinion, if the op asks about wrestlers in a Pro wrestling forum, hes clearly asking about work rate; and in that case hes asking who is the most believable (in a round about way).

Actually it is a matter of opinion because it's a discussion board, there aren't any facts on offer here. You can't point out factually that Angle is the best nor can someone say he's the worst as it's all relevant to opinion.

3/4 of this post is only loosely related to the topic at best and for that I apologize to any "topic Nazis" but someone has to slap some sense into people who think acrobatics is "work". Acrobatics with no registering or selling and absolutely no direction or story is what killed the business. You watch it and think "wow that does look set up"

You could've reduced this to "wahhhh, I only wanna see the 80's NWA on television"

Now heres a guy who brings the one thing that all workers crave. They work so hard to achieve. Legitimacy. Believability. And even when he became established as a "pro wrestler" and people knew it was all "staged" or "set up" this guy (along with HBK and a few others at the time) made people BELIEVE that it was a sport - even when their head said otherwise.

What evidence to you actually offer here, you said it's "believiable and this is what working is" over and over but you didn't actually offer anything to base that on.

Not dives, flips, power slams or w/e other crap you wanna drum up. Its what happens BETWEEN these maneuvers that is working.

What, sitting around gasping for air and looking like you've been seriously hurt? Because by that logic Amazing Red is the best worker with Scott Hall coming in a close second.

I saw Terry Funk sell a PUNCH for 7 whole minutes and people fucking believed it. Its an art form and Angle is the last of a dead breed because guys like this guy who replied to me think that AJ Styles is on a par with Kurt fucking Angle.

Wow you saw Terry Funk pretend to recoil from being punched for 7 minutes, that sounds pretty fucking boring. But idk maybe he's just a good worker and being able to do that makes him better.

He isn't. Could've been maybe, absolutely. Amazing athlete. So was Michael Jordan - does that mean he could've sold out Madison Square Garden pretending to get beat up or beat someone up? Cant for definite say no (not that arrogant) but christ, I would be confident of a bet on it though.

This is so relevant.

Now go ahead and tell me the business has changed and guys like AJ are the future blah blah.

[Hasnt drawn shit. Some future you envision and clearly embrace.

Cos Kurt Angle is a legit draw yeah? I mean obviously when he jumped to TNA all his fans came with? And I'm sorry but far more people tune in weekly to WWE in the hopes of seeing Rey Mysterio do a flip here and there then they do tune in hoping for 7 minutes of selling a punch. Wrestling is entertainment but it's also a demonstration of athletic ability. Pretending to be hurt doesn't show any level of athleticism.

Thanks for actively taking part in the destruction of an industry i have great feeling for.

Wahhhhhh, I want to see 30 minutes of slow moving boredom.

 

[JackBurton]

Last I checked I don't remember saying, "WRESTLING IZ SOO REEL" so great job wasting an entire paragraph on nothing.



Sure thing there, I'm certain that every wrestler who can perform a suplex can just as easily pull off a 450 splash and land it correctly.



Perhaps you might want to read it again, I said if you wanted to be "entertained" they were where it's at. I'm sorry but an hour long match of holds, the occasional suplex and a punch or kick or knee throughout are entertaining.


Yes, because the question of best "pure wrestler" relies on promos. I already said Angle was the best overrall. But from strict athleticism there are others who rival him.



Actually I'd say the concept of a "pure" wrestler would lend itself as to who is the best athlete and in that sense numerous wrestlers in TNA could lay claim to it.



Actually it is a matter of opinion because it's a discussion board, there aren't any facts on offer here. You can't point out factually that Angle is the best nor can someone say he's the worst as it's all relevant to opinion.


You could've reduced this to "wahhhh, I only wanna see the 80's NWA on television"



What evidence to you actually offer here, you said it's "believiable and this is what working is" over and over but you didn't actually offer anything to base that on.



What, sitting around gasping for air and looking like you've been seriously hurt? Because by that logic Amazing Red is the best worker with Scott Hall coming in a close second.


Wow you saw Terry Funk pretend to recoil from being punched for 7 minutes, that sounds pretty fucking boring. But idk maybe he's just a good worker and being able to do that makes him better.


This is so relevant.



Cos Kurt Angle is a legit draw yeah? I mean obviously when he jumped to TNA all his fans came with? And I'm sorry but far more people tune in weekly to WWE in the hopes of seeing Rey Mysterio do a flip here and there then they do tune in hoping for 7 minutes of selling a punch. Wrestling is entertainment but it's also a demonstration of athletic ability. Pretending to be hurt doesn't show any level of athleticism.


Wahhhhhh, I want to see 30 minutes of slow moving boredom.

Exactly the response I was expecting.

Hogan (slow moving boredom) multi multi millionaire

The Guns (insert generic 5" 10" gymnast) Broke, and crippled, in 5 years.

Good job exposing how ill-informed and completely unnecessary fans like you are

"What evidence to you actually offer here, you said it's "believiable and this is what working is" over and over but you didn't actually offer anything to base that on." - this quote is comedy gold in particular; frankly there isn't much I need to say about it - it speaks all for itself. Ask any worker what working is and they'll tell you exactly that - but you would know that being smart to the business and all.

"Pretending to be hurt doesn't show any level of athleticism." - another classic. Wouldn't you say the whole USA Olympic team was more athletic than say, Dusty Rhodes? Who got more people to pay to watch them? Also selling isn't important? I think you'll find that selling is probably one the most important thing to do between the ropes (especially if you're a babyface)

Please cancel your account or at least refrain from spewing nonsense. You want evidence of anything Ive said? Since this new "era" of high flying the business has down turned. And in case you need it spelled out for ya - that means NO ONE is paying to watch AJ Styles do back flips.

Angle might not draw HUGE money now - but he has and probably still could given the proper medium. AJ has never - 8 years on TV and still only what? 1/3 of fans know who he is?

But, hey, listen; you're an internet mark so you know better than the plethora of STARS Ive spoken to about the subject. Stars would mean people who've actually done something in the industry, like hmm, drawn money.

Please post another generic internet "Im using a mocking tone because you're talking waaaay over my head and I don't know wtf I'm talking about" wall of ghey

Example number 3 of how utterly clueless you are (as if we needed any more convincing): "maybe he's just a good worker" - Maybe Terry Funk is a good worker, MAYBE?!

What working is - isnt a matter of opinion, its a fact. From When the promoters decided to change pro wrestling from a shoot to a work to present day; work has always been the same thing. A concerted effort to make people suspend disbelief. How can you do that if it all looks set up? And how can that be considered work?

 

[burnout4200]

I dont like picking the obvious. Angle might be the best but then again one under rated guy might be up there. Kaz.

 

[Reddannihilation]

Exactly the response I was expecting.

Hogan (slow moving boredom) multi multi millionaire

The Guns (insert generic 5" 10" gymnast) Broke, and crippled, in 5 years.

Ways to point out how wrong you are, 1.) Hogan wrestled short matches and part of his gimmick was "hulking up" which basically meant no-selling moves. Also I think Christopher Daniels, Jushin Liger and Rey Mysterio might have something to say about high-fliers having long careers.

Good job exposing how ill-informed and completely unnecessary fans like you are

Yes we need more matches with 5 suplexes and an hour of rest holds, so long as it "tells a story".

"What evidence to you actually offer here, you said it's "believiable and this is what working is" over and over but you didn't actually offer anything to base that on." - this quote is comedy gold in particular; frankly there isn't much I need to say about it - it speaks all for itself. Ask any worker what working is and they'll tell you exactly that - but you would know that being smart to the business and all.

Great attempt at an insult there, care to answer the question as to what "working" really is? Or are you too busy being the #1 wrestling guru?

"Pretending to be hurt doesn't show any level of athleticism." - another classic. Wouldn't you say the whole USA Olympic team was more athletic than say, Dusty Rhodes? Who got more people to pay to watch them? Also selling isn't important? I think you'll find that selling is probably one the most important thing to do between the ropes (especially if you're a babyface)

Question posed in the thread, who is the best overall wrestler in TNA? and who is the best pure wrestler? Please redirect to the thread that asks "Who in TNA can act hurt the most and sells lots" as I don't remember that being at all relevant to pure (see: athletic) skill.

Please cancel your account or at least refrain from spewing nonsense. You want evidence of anything Ive said? Since this new "era" of high flying the business has down turned. And in case you need it spelled out for ya - that means NO ONE is paying to watch AJ Styles do back flips.

Yeah when high-fliers were introduced wrestling totally went downhill, I mean in WCW the luchadores were ruining everything. You no why wrestling has gone down hill? Because it's not as interesting anymore. You're gonna try and pin the blame on people like AJ when people like Cena are just as much to blame, high-flying didn't ruin wrestling, lack of interest did.

Angle might not draw HUGE money now - but he has and probably still could given the proper medium. AJ has never - 8 years on TV and still only what? 1/3 of fans know who he is?

Yes and Angle had the benefit of about 8 years being in the biggest company and several of those years were spent during the time that wrestling was still a big aspect of mainstream TV. AJ built himself up from the indies and currently resides in the second biggest wrestling company in the US as one of it's most popular wrestlers. And still just what exactly does this have to do with athleticism? This isn't the "overrall" category.

But, hey, listen; you're an internet mark so you know better than the plethora of STARS Ive spoken to about the subject. Stars would mean people who've actually done something in the industry, like hmm, drawn money.

What are you Mark Madden? You have about as much evidence to back up what you're saying as you do intelligence. i.e. None at all.

Example number 3 of how utterly clueless you are (as if we needed any more convincing): "maybe he's just a good worker" - Maybe Terry Funk is a good worker, MAYBE?!

You're obviously to dumb to know what the emoticon rolling his eyes means, psstt IT MEANS I WAS ROLLING MY EYES!!!!!!!! You offered the evidence of "terry funk sold a punch for 7 minutes" that makes him a better "pure" wreslter how? "I can fake being punched therefore I am the better athlete".

What working is - isnt a matter of opinion, its a fact. From When the promoters decided to change pro wrestling from a shoot to a work to present day; work has always been the same thing. A concerted effort to make people suspend disbelief. How can you do that if it all looks set up? And how can that be considered work?

And again, how does that relate to who is the best "pure wrestler"? You're obviously too stupid to get what the topic was about, all your bitching about "working" would be fine if I'd challenged your claims to the best "overall wrestler" but I didn't, read the examples the OP posted for pure wrestler, "technique, agility, power" this is about who can demonstrate athleticism and create interest in the ring. Taking a beating like a bitch and then making a comeback worked in the 80's, nowadays it looks just as fake as you claim aerial moves do. The difference is that aerial moves excite people and 20 minutes of stomps in the corner don't. Not to mention that seeing as you specifically targeted AJ you've ignored the fact that aside from the springboard 450 and dives to the outside he uses almost no top-rope moves aside from the occasional splash.

Try again.

 

[JackBurton]

Ways to point out how wrong you are, 1.) Hogan wrestled short matches and part of his gimmick was "hulking up" which basically meant no-selling moves. Also I think Christopher Daniels, Jushin Liger and Rey Mysterio might have something to say about high-fliers having long careers.


Yes we need more matches with 5 suplexes and an hour of rest holds, so long as it "tells a story".


Great attempt at an insult there, care to answer the question as to what "working" really is? Or are you too busy being the #1 wrestling guru?


Question posed in the thread, who is the best overall wrestler in TNA? and who is the best pure wrestler? Please redirect to the thread that asks "Who in TNA can act hurt the most and sells lots" as I don't remember that being at all relevant to pure (see: athletic) skill.


Yeah when high-fliers were introduced wrestling totally went downhill, I mean in WCW the luchadores were ruining everything. You no why wrestling has gone down hill? Because it's not as interesting anymore. You're gonna try and pin the blame on people like AJ when people like Cena are just as much to blame, high-flying didn't ruin wrestling, lack of interest did.


Yes and Angle had the benefit of about 8 years being in the biggest company and several of those years were spent during the time that wrestling was still a big aspect of mainstream TV. AJ built himself up from the indies and currently resides in the second biggest wrestling company in the US as one of it's most popular wrestlers. And still just what exactly does this have to do with athleticism? This isn't the "overrall" category.


What are you Mark Madden? You have about as much evidence to back up what you're saying as you do intelligence. i.e. None at all.




You're obviously to dumb to know what the emoticon rolling his eyes means, psstt IT MEANS I WAS ROLLING MY EYES!!!!!!!! You offered the evidence of "terry funk sold a punch for 7 minutes" that makes him a better "pure" wreslter how? "I can fake being punched therefore I am the better athlete".


And again, how does that relate to who is the best "pure wrestler"? You're obviously too stupid to get what the topic was about, all your bitching about "working" would be fine if I'd challenged your claims to the best "overall wrestler" but I didn't, read the examples the OP posted for pure wrestler, "technique, agility, power" this is about who can demonstrate athleticism and create interest in the ring. Taking a beating like a bitch and then making a comeback worked in the 80's, nowadays it looks just as fake as you claim aerial moves do. The difference is that aerial moves excite people and 20 minutes of stomps in the corner don't. Not to mention that seeing as you specifically targeted AJ you've ignored the fact that aside from the springboard 450 and dives to the outside he uses almost no top-rope moves aside from the occasional splash.

Try again.

No my friend - Hogan didnt work 5 minute matches. Hogan could go; Ive seen his matches from Japan (he wouldnt have been booked or rebooked in Japan if he couldnt. Fact)

Suspension of disbelief is the number one goal of any wrestler/worker. That generates emotional connection which is what makes people part with there hard earned cash. No-one cares about these guys you espouse and they don't draw any money worth mentioning. As for Mysterio? He LEARNT to work after coming to North America and I think you will indeed find that he has several persistent injuries attributed to the types of matches he had pre 2000. Get your facts straight. Lyger is a Japanese wrestler and as such his "ring psychology" is completely different because the Japanese national sport is Judo. And if you cant figure out what that means then you should just stop now cause its Pro Wrestling 101.

You actually have the most laughable, text book internet mark agenda. You use all the text book lines about NWA 80s, rest holds and slow matches. Ever think their might be a correlation between the FACTS (not opinions, supposition or conjecture; just facts) that wrestlings 2 biggest boom periods in the last 25-30 years are when we've had these so called "slow matches"? When everything that happened in the ring meant something and went somewhere and wasn't just there to please an extreme minority of "smart" fans who think that guys like Shawn Michaels were over because they do a bunch of dives?

You keep talking about athletes. What the fuck does athleticism have to do with Pro Wrestling? What part of the this dont you understand? THEY ARE NOT WRESTLERS THEY ARE WORKERS. Its not a sport, its not competitive; they are working together to the same goal. Athleticism is a nice bonus but is in no way absolutely necessary to draw money and to draw money you have make people believe and to do that you have to be able to work. Hence "working" and "wrestling" are 2 different things.

Its seems to be hard for you to understand or more likely you're just pretending you dont understand so as to not have to admit that these guys you think are "where its at" are in fact not "where its at". The business is on its ass - theres your evidence. Terry Funk selling a punch drew more money for one show than a month of TNA house shows.

That simple enough for ya?

Here, ill put it in plain English for you;

EVEN THE TERMINATOR SOLD

"Great attempt at an insult there, care to answer the question as to what "working" really is? Or are you too busy being the #1 wrestling guru?"

I wont answer that question, because unlike internet marks I understand enough to know I don't understand a thing. But I have repeated several times in this very thread the answer I got when I asked the same question of people who've drawn money. You still think you know better than a Race, Funk, Foley, Sammartino etc etc

Go ahead, internet mark text book response "their time is over the business is changed"

your right, its changed. From alive to dead.

Fucking floor gymnastics has taken over - but to be fair a few these guys might be decent Olympians. Still doesnt change the fact that just ONE of these old timers drew more money doing what you say is "dull" than all you circus freak heroes put together

The words; Pipe and smoke it come to mind

 

[Reddannihilation]

No my friend - Hogan didnt work 5 minute matches. Hogan could go; Ive seen his matches from Japan (he wouldnt have been booked or rebooked in Japan if he couldnt. Fact)

And Hogan totally got famous for his time in japan amirite?

Suspension of disbelief is the number one goal of any wrestler/worker. That generates emotional connection which is what makes people part with there hard earned cash. No-one cares about these guys you espouse and they don't draw any money worth mentioning.

And that answers the question as to who is best "pure" wrestler how?

As for Mysterio? He LEARNT to work after coming to North America and I think you will indeed find that he has several persistent injuries attributed to the types of matches he had pre 2000. Get your facts straight. Lyger is a Japanese wrestler and as such his "ring psychology" is completely different because the Japanese national sport is Judo. And if you cant figure out what that means then you should just stop now cause its Pro Wrestling 101.

You said that high-fliers can't last, Mysterio has injuries but he's still wrestling, Austin, Taz, etc. all wrestled a style that avoided flying, they quit due to injury a lot earlier. Also Liger having different "ring psychology" (and I laugh everytime I see that used as I can guarantee you don't know what the word psychology means) doesn't stop his moveset being any different.

You actually have the most laughable, text book internet mark agenda. You use all the text book lines about NWA 80s, rest holds and slow matches. Ever think their might be a correlation between the FACTS (not opinions, supposition or conjecture; just facts) that wrestlings 2 biggest boom periods in the last 25-30 years are when we've had these so called "slow matches"? When everything that happened in the ring meant something and went somewhere and wasn't just there to please an extreme minority of "smart" fans who think that guys like Shawn Michaels were over because they do a bunch of dives?

Last I checked the most profitable era in wrestling was the 90's and the matches were short matches.

You keep talking about athletes. What the fuck does athleticism have to do with Pro Wrestling?

Funny story, it has to do with "suspension of disbelief", you really think people are going to believe a fat guy could've lasted more than a few minutes without tiring out in a real contest? No. Guys who actually are fit and are in-shape add to the realism by being able to keep things moving and not boring the audience.

What part of the this dont you understand? THEY ARE NOT WRESTLERS THEY ARE WORKERS. Its not a sport, its not competitive; they are working together to the same goal. Athleticism is a nice bonus but is in no way absolutely necessary to draw money and to draw money you have make people believe and to do that you have to be able to work. Hence "working" and "wrestling" are 2 different things.

And again you fall back to the same part about making money, read the thread other than you, who's said the best "pure" wrestler is the best money maker?

Its seems to be hard for you to understand or more likely you're just pretending you dont understand so as to not have to admit that these guys you think are "where its at" are in fact not "where its at". The business is on its ass - theres your evidence. Terry Funk selling a punch drew more money for one show than a month of TNA house shows.

Yes and I'm sure if it was advertised as High-flying wrestlers vs. Guy pretends to be hurt. People would be all over the other. Never mind that, what does this have to do with "pure" ability?

I wont answer that question, because unlike internet marks I understand enough to know I don't understand a thing. But I have repeated several times in this very thread the answer I got when I asked the same question of people who've drawn money. You still think you know better than a Race, Funk, Foley, Sammartino etc etc

Yes I'm sure you and mick foley are friends in real life. Yup, no doubt.

Go ahead, internet mark text book response "their time is over the business is changed"

your right, its changed. From alive to dead.

How about, no one would pay money these days for an overweight dusty rhodes to have an iron man match with Ric Flair because it wouldn't be interesting to the modern audience? Is that truth too difficult for you to accept?

Fucking floor gymnastics has taken over - but to be fair a few these guys might be decent Olympians. Still doesnt change the fact that just ONE of these old timers drew more money doing what you say is "dull" than all you circus freak heroes put together

The words; Pipe and smoke it come to mind

Wahhhhhhhhhhhh, I HATEZ HIGH-FLIERS. Maybe if you weren't a biased ****** you might realise that changing attitudes in the public eye is why wrestling isn't as popular, as well as the lack of competition within the business. Instead of being a dumbshit and blaming the decline on the lack of weekly ironman matches.

And this is important the question was "who is the best pure wrestler" not who draws money or who fakes injury the best or any of that. If you might learn to read, it would help you realise you're arguing a point that's completely unrelated to the question at hand.