At least 27 People Dead, 18 of them children.

[Stormtrooper]

I have a feeling just calling the murderer a piece of shit and then going about your business isn't going to solve anything either.

Actually, that's not what I did. I called him a piece of shit, and have been praying for and offering condolences ever since.

As an human being incapable of changing the law, that is all I am capable of.

I'm sorry to hear that someone or a group of people made you feel yelled at for calling a murderer a piece of shit. I wasn't part of that discussion but I understand what it is like to feel picked or jumped on for sharing my feelings in a way that others find innapropriate.

However, while I don't think you need to apologize, I hope you understand that others that are grieving after this tragedy may reasonably find it innapropriate and petty to bring up this past incident. You seem quite critical of what others are feeling and are saying at this time and I would hope you would show more respect others feelings just like you would want for yourself.

I understand that, and agree that it was the wrong time or place to mention it. I'm sorry that it was mentioned when it was. I regret doing that.

Seriously, gun control.

What a difference a punctuation mark makes.

Yeah, and it's still sad.

Well, we'd like to see children not be shot to death.

What's your excuse?

So would I. Of course I am also smart enough to know that there is virtually nothing I can do about it, and I also have enough moral character to know that political debate has no place yesterday (the day of the tragedy) and arguably today (the day after, while parents are still making funeral arrangements for their kindergartners).

Indeed it is. But it's also a time to figure out ways to prevent this from happening again...like increased gun control.

No it isn't. It's a time to grieve. Let the professionals worry about Gun Control, since they are the only people who can do something about it.

The fact you think addressing ways to prevent the murder of children is "politics" says far more about you than what you are trying to say about us.

Actually, Gun Control is a political issue that takes politicians to change, so yeah, it's 100% politics.
And the real way non-politicians can prevent this from happening is increased security in all schools. People shouldn't be able to walk into a school without issue. Sadly, they can (I know, I've done it in order to visit former teachers as recently as a few years ago).

It's a time to mourn, and it's a time to take action to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Then why are you not taking action? You're talking. And not only are you just talking, but you're talking to random people on the internet, who have virtually no power to fix anything (it's a fair assumption to say there are no congressmen/senators/presidents on the forums).

Are you really saying we shouldn't be addressing ways to prevent this tragedy from ever happening again? Because I have news for you, school will be back in session next Monday. And the day after that. And the day after that. And the longer we wait to reform, the more danger you're putting children in.

Not at all. I'm saying how about you allow people to mourn before bringing up politics.

Don't tell me now is not the time. Now is EXACTLY the time. Every moment which passes is another moment wasted and another moment closer to the next shooting which kills another child. The fact you (and the many who agree with you) think protecting the murder of innocent children is politics simply befuddles me.

Again, you're not trying to protect kids. You're talking politics. Your talk means jack shit with regards to protecting kids because, get this, no one you are talking to has the power to actually FIX the problem.

And do you even know what I am saying? I'm not supporting gun rights at all. All I'm saying that BOTH sides should take a day to mourn this tragedy.

Oh, and not all murderers are pieces of shit, like the SEAL team which murdered bin Laden. But, for the most part, I agree with murderers are scum of the earth.

That was an act of war. There's a difference between killing innocent people in cold blood and an act of war.

This isn't politics, this is prevention. Take your feigned outrage someplace else.

You're talking something that can only be fixed by politicians. It sure as hell sounds like politics to me.

Agree 100%. Just like finding ways to prevent it from happening again has nothing to do with politics.

The only people who are making this political are the gun supporters, not the people who want to make this country safer.

This is so frustrating it's annoying.

"The other side of the political debate is talking politics, I'm not because I'm right."

Sorry, but this is a political issue, since you're talking about changing LAWS that can only be done by POLITICIANS.

Like we gave the shooting victims in Aurora? Or, more aptly, the ones in Oregon? Did they have enough time to mourn before 20 children were murdered?

Did we? Probably not. Should we? YES.

Is it so hard to take a day to mourn, cry, pray, whatever? No. Let the families bury their kindergartners.

I agree completely. Anyone who thinks putting off the discussion on how to prevent this from happening again, simply because they like to pretend they're Dirty Harry, is pathetic. Simply pathetic.

That is pathetic. I'm not putting anything off to pretend I'm Dirty Harry. I'm putting off this pointless debate because not only is it pointless, but it's the wrong time.

I honestly don't know this story, what happened?

Stormie did not like people questioning his jumping to the conclusion that Javon Belcher was a murdering piece of shit before the full story was known. He seems to think that because his knee jerk reaction was eventually proven correct that he deserves kudos and apologies for said conclusion jumping.

Actually, Барбоса has it wrong.

When Javon Belcher murdered his girlfriend and killed himself I called him a piece of shit. At the time, police had confirmed Belcher murdered his girlfriend and killed himself. We didn't know why he did it, that he did it in front of his coach and GM, or how many times he shot her.

Nate said that the girlfriend was fingering the baby and no one cared. I called him a piece of shit and everyone told me to fuck off.






Again, don't take what I'm saying as supporting gun rights. I'd love to see all automatic/semi-automatic guns banned from civilian ownership and stricter regulations for all other gun ownership. I just will allow myself to mourn and the families of victims to grieve before discussing politics.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Actually, Барбоса has it wrong.

No, he has it dead on. One of the perks of not being a complete ******.

When Javon Belcher murdered his girlfriend and killed himself I called him a piece of shit. At the time, police had confirmed Belcher murdered his girlfriend and killed himself. We didn't know why he did it, that he did it in front of his coach and GM, or how many times he shot her.

Nate said that the girlfriend was fingering the baby and no one cared. I called him a piece of shit and everyone told me to fuck off.

I said what if he walked in on her fingering the baby, you lying tool. To which you actually had the defense of, "Well where are the police reports?" It's shit like that as well as this situation that leads me to believe that you have absolutely zero grasp on reality and have absolutely no life experience. If you were to walk in on someone fingering your infant, your first instinct would be to fucking destroy that person. The fact that you think the Police would even come to mind just shows how much you live in Hindsight Land.

Go fuck yourself.

 

[JGlass]

I'm glad to see Stormtrooper managed to take a national tragedy and make it about himself completely. Brafuckingvo.

 

[Con T.]

Stormtrooper, I know you think you're doing good in this thread by coming back and posting in it, in some little passive aggressive manner, but really, you're completely ruining the thread, as well as missing my point.

If you want to address your actions, do it elsewhere. If you actually want to talk about the tragedy, stay here.

INB4 Someone screamsplaying mod

 

[Stormtrooper]

No, he has it dead on. One of the perks of not being a complete ******.



I said what if he walked in on her fingering the baby, you lying tool. To which you actually had the defense of, "Well where are the police reports?" It's shit like that as well as this situation that leads me to believe that you have absolutely zero grasp on reality and have absolutely no life experience. If you were to walk in on someone fingering your infant, your first instinct would be to fucking destroy that person. The fact that you think the Police would even come to mind just shows how much you live in Hindsight Land.

Go fuck yourself.

If I saw someone commit a disgusting crime, I would stop them from continuing the crime and then call the police, not kill them and myself. That doesn't mean I lack life experience, it means I'm not a fucking idiot.

and again with the random fingering of a baby. Who the fuck even thinks of such a disgusting thing?

If you want to address your actions, do it elsewhere. If you actually want to talk about the tragedy, stay here.

INB4 Someone screamsplaying mod

Why don't you say it to all the people discussing politics instead of the tragedy? I mean I'm hardly the only person going off topic,.

 

[Danger Burger]

This shooting is truly fucked. I have no clue what puts that in somebody's head. Have I read correctly that the same guy killed his mother and his girlfriend is missing?

Thoughts go out to the family of the victims and of the shooter, they'll need as much help going through this as anyone else.

and again with the random fingering of a baby. Who the fuck even thinks of such a disgusting thing?

The point Nate was trying to make (i believe) had something to do with your support of the death penalty (had he lived), saying the guy should rot in hell, whilst completely ignoring the idea that the woman could have done something to put her in the category of "deserving to die". The point of the baby fingering is that it is completely fucked. It makes Nates "things you go to hell for" list.

 

[Con T.]

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?p=4251427&posted=1#post4251427

 

[nightmare]

Then why are you not taking action? You're talking. And not only are you just talking, but you're talking to random people on the internet, who have virtually no power to fix anything (it's a fair assumption to say there are no congressmen/senators/presidents on the forums).

Just what the hell are you doing about it? Pointing the finger for not taking action is not effective when you are doing jack shit about it yourself.

Also, generating discussion about how to fix issues is the first step in getting things changed.


People talk, form ideas on how to fix the problem and it moves people to take action. We might not have power to sign a bill, but if we dont discuss problems and gain momentum for change, then those that do have the power will not have a reason to sign such a bill into action. If no discussion is had on what to do to prevent such tragedies- then nothing gets done.


So why bitch about people talking in regard to a need to solve a problem?



The families directly involved need time to mourn\pray, etc. But they also are going to stand up and be first in line to enact change to prevent this type of thing from happening in their community. We as a country are mourning along with them, albeit in a different way. But we also, as a country, will stand up and try to prevent this from happening in our own parts of town. It starts with mourning, moves to discussion & then on with ways to act.


Sure, people need to be aware of the tragedy, mourn, etc.... But if everyone just did that and nothing more, then this will happen again. Just like it has done many times before with various situations. Being sad has its place in hard times, but that must also be coupled with generating discussion and calling for action\change so things like that are less likely to happen. Then, soon, they will be a rare instance instead of so frequent.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Good grief...

 

[Stormtrooper]

Just what the hell are you doing about it? Pointing the finger for not taking action is not effective when you are doing jack shit about it yourself.

I did the only thing a citizen CAN do. Mourn. Pray. There's nothing else I (or anyone else not there) can do at the current time

And I never pointed at anyone in this thread, I only said that the debate is temporarily misguided given the tragedy. If you can take anything I said as pointing a finger, then it would be at the people who are blaming the gun and not the man. It doesn't seem that is happening here.

Also, generating discussion about how to fix issues is the first step in getting things changed.

Not with posters on an internet wrestling forum.

People talk, form ideas on how to fix the problem and it moves people to take action. We might not have power to sign a bill, but if we dont discuss problems and gain momentum for change, then those that do have the power will not have a reason to sign such a bill into action. If no discussion is had on what to do to prevent such tragedies- then nothing gets done.


So why bitch about people talking in regard to a need to solve a problem?

Because the people involved in this debate aren't doing a damn thing besides spinning their wheels without moving anything. All the people discussing this issue have no power. Zero times however many people in this thread talking still equals zero. Hence, all the talk will produce ZERO productivity regarding preventing the situation.

The families directly involved need time to mourn\pray, etc. But they also are going to stand up and be first in line to enact change to prevent this type of thing from happening in their community. We as a country are mourning along with them, albeit in a different way. But we also, as a country, will stand up and try to prevent this from happening in our own parts of town. It starts with mourning, moves to discussion & then on with ways to act.

Yet no one is standing up for anything. They are arguing on an internet wrestling forum. You want to stand up? Go to your fucking congressman and tell him this crap. THAT'S attempting to fix something. People are spinning their wheels here and getting absolutely nowhere.

Sure, people need to be aware of the tragedy, mourn, etc.... But if everyone just did that and nothing more, then this will happen again. Just like it has done many times before with various situations. Being sad has its place in hard times, but that must also be coupled with generating discussion and calling for action\change so things like that are less likely to happen. Then, soon, they will be a rare instance instead of so frequent.

When did I say do that and nothing more? I said do that, THEN talk about it after people have time to mourn. Politics will be there after people mourn. It'll always be there.

 

[Daniel]

Can't we grieve and talk about how this can be prevented?

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

 

[Nate DaMac]

If I saw someone commit a disgusting crime, I would stop them from continuing the crime and then call the police, not kill them and myself. That doesn't mean I lack life experience, it means I'm not a fucking idiot.

That's really easy to say in hindsight, it's quite difficult to register in the spur of the moment. You'd know that if you had ANY life experience whatsoever beyond your television/computer screen. If you had just killed your wife, whether you were justified or not, you would be overcome with grief. It's understandable that a guy in that kind of mindframe would kill himself.

It's all for naught now, the guy was a piece of shit. I can say that now, knowing all the facts surrounding it.

and again with the random fingering of a baby. Who the fuck even thinks of such a disgusting thing?

I think Mack kind of summed it up. Child Molestation ranks higher than murder on my scale of fucked up shit that happens. I can see murder as being justified.

 

[Slyfox696]

So would I. Of course I am also smart enough to know that there is virtually nothing I can do about it

Well, you could quit criticizing those who wish to prevent it from happening again, for starters.

and I also have enough moral character to know that political debate has no place yesterday (the day of the tragedy) and arguably today (the day after, while parents are still making funeral arrangements for their kindergartners).

Then quit turning this into one. I'm saying we need to do what makes our country safer. That's not political at all. How in the world can you see safety for children as political?

No it isn't. It's a time to grieve.

It's a time to do both. They need not be mutually exclusive. When 9/11 happened, we grieved as a country, even as aircraft carriers were speeding to the Middle East, while the armies were being raised and intelligence was being gathered for the best plan of attack.

You can grieve, and still do what's necessary to prevent it from happening again.

Let the professionals worry about Gun Control, since they are the only people who can do something about it.

Those "professionals", as you call them, answer to me and all other citizens. And if I'm worried about it, or more importantly if our country is worried about it, then they need to be worried about it.

Actually, Gun Control is a political issue that takes politicians to change, so yeah, it's 100% politics.

Bull-fucking-shit.

Just because the gun lobby has turned American safety into a political issue so they can continue to make money off the deaths of Americans, that doesn't mean searching for ways to keep our children safe is political.

I honestly cannot understand how you think trying to prevent future children from being murdered is political.

And the real way non-politicians can prevent this from happening is increased security in all schools. People shouldn't be able to walk into a school without issue. Sadly, they can (I know, I've done it in order to visit former teachers as recently as a few years ago).

Wait wait wait...I thought you were against making this a political issue? Because what you just said is every bit as political as gun control, not to mention, requiring of politicians to require it.

Nevermind the fact this guy didn't just waltz into school, reports now say he forced his way into the school.

Then why are you not taking action? You're talking. And not only are you just talking, but you're talking to random people on the internet, who have virtually no power to fix anything (it's a fair assumption to say there are no congressmen/senators/presidents on the forums).

The pen is mightier than the sword, my friend. Or, in this case, keyboard.

You're trying to prevent people from talking. You claim it's too early to talk about it, and want us to wait until the horror is gone. I'm telling you that idea is insulting and dangerous. And the more people who are willing to get mad about it, the more people will demand their representative do something about it, or face being kicked out in the next election.

Frederick Douglass never picked up a gun, but his contribution to progress in this country cannot be understated. I'm no Frederick Douglass, but he's proof words are part of the process.

Not at all. I'm saying how about you allow people to mourn before bringing up politics.

And I'm telling you safety is not politics, no matter how much you want to pretend it is.

Again, you're not trying to protect kids.

As a teacher myself, who deals with hundreds of children on any every day basis...fuck you.

I most certainly am trying to protect the kids. You don't begin to know the things I do to try and protect kids, so often simply through talking.

You're talking politics.

No, YOU'RE talking politics. I'm talking safety.

And do you even know what I am saying? I'm not supporting gun rights at all. All I'm saying that BOTH sides should take a day to mourn this tragedy.

And I'm saying this country hadn't even gotten over mourning what happened at a mall in Oregon last week, or in a theater in Colorado in July.

It's time we quit being paralyzed with our mourning and fucking do something to stop people from having to mourn. We can grieve, we can mourn, but why the fuck should we not do what's necessary to stop from having to mourn incidences like these in the future?

That was an act of war. There's a difference between killing innocent people in cold blood and an act of war.

Not to the dead person, there isn't.

The raid on bin Laden was a home invasion consisting of a planned execution of one human by another, with no consent from the country the killing happened in. It was murder. It just so happens you think the murder was justified. As do most Americans, including myself.

You're talking something that can only be fixed by politicians. It sure as hell sounds like politics to me.

Then you'll never get it. If you think protecting children from gunfire is political, then perhaps your grasp on reality is as poor as most on the forum claim it is.

This is so frustrating it's annoying.

So is someone who thinks safety is political.

"The other side of the political debate is talking politics, I'm not because I'm right."

When you argue against the safety of human beings, you can never be right.

Did we? Probably not. Should we? YES.

Is it so hard to take a day to mourn, cry, pray, whatever? No. Let the families bury their kindergartners.

So then will you carry the banner tomorrow for stricter gun control? Or the day after these children have been buried?

When exactly do you propose we work to ensure the safety of children from guns?

That is pathetic. I'm not putting anything off to pretend I'm Dirty Harry. I'm putting off this pointless debate because not only is it pointless, but it's the wrong time.

You can say it all you want, but you're completely wrong.

The time to discuss it is when it is still fresh in our minds how much it hurts. Because the longer we wait, the more apathetic we become...until it happens again. We've waited for decades, and nothing has been done. I'm tired of waiting. I'm tired of people being senselessly murdered by weapons they don't need to have.

So let's just make a deal. You wait three days before posting in this thread again...I'm going to continue telling everyone why you're wrong. And when those three days are up, come on back into the thread and side with us.

 

[justinsayne]

Stormy, there is something seriously fucking wrong with you. Calling people pathetic for talking & trying to find a solution so that such a horriable tragedy doesn't happen again makes you come off as a pathetic piece of shit. Go fuck yourself.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

I can see murder as being justified.

That's a fine line you're treading here because you need a lot of evidence to correctly identify why killing another one of your own is justified but this incident is on the completely wrong end (I'm not accusing you of saying this murder could be justified here, I'm just bringing up a point in general which is...)

How does one justify shooting and killing innocent children? Something must have seriously fucked these shooters up mentally if they had to urge to go on a killing spree such as this. My prayers and condolences go out to everyone involved, except the shooters. Fuck the shooters.

-----------------------------------------------

In Australia, it is difficult to obtain and maintain firearms. There are certain procedures you must follow in order to have access to a gun such as attending a certain amount of tournament/sporting events to make sure you are holding a firearm for sporting purposes... and that's only to get your Paintball Gun licence. There is more entailed for those who want the "bigger" guns.

It works for us (as in the sense that we don't have as many huge shooting as America does) so why can't it work for the States?

 

[Nate DaMac]

That's a fine line you're treading here because you need a lot of evidence to correctly identify why killing another one of your own is justified but this incident is on the completely wrong end (I'm not accusing you of saying this murder could be justified here, I'm just bringing up a point in general which is...)

How does one justify shooting and killing innocent children? Something must have seriously fucked these shooters up mentally if they had to urge to go on a killing spree such as this. My prayers and condolences go out to everyone involved, except the shooters. Fuck the shooters.

-----------------------------------------------

In Australia, it is difficult to obtain and maintain firearms. There are certain procedures you must follow in order to have access to a gun such as attending a certain amount of tournament/sporting events to make sure you are holding a firearm for sporting purposes... and that's only to get your Paintball Gun licence. There is more entailed for those who want the "bigger" guns.

It works for us (as in the sense that we don't have as many huge shooting as America does) so why can't it work for the States?

I can't fathom how 18 children could be justifiably murdered. That could be because their is no reason, or because I have no imagination.

 

[jmt225]

To change directions for a second, I thought Morgan Freeman brought up a brilliant point when asked about yesterday's shooting.

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

 

[Uncle Sam]

http://t.co/klM86ZsB

Does that link work?

 

[Coco]

It did when Shadowmancer posted the same video earlier.

 

[jmt225]

http://t.co/klM86ZsB

Does that link work?

I thought the European media was above that. I guess the American "Ratings at any cost!" style is rubbing off on them. Damn shame...

 

[Moon Knight]

I thought the European media was above that. I guess the American "Ratings at any cost!" style is rubbing off on them. Damn shame...

American has nothing to do with it. Europe is above nothing, as long as there is money to had people will do anything. Nationality plays no role in it.

 

[Moon Knight]

To change directions for a second, I thought Morgan Freeman brought up a brilliant point when asked about yesterday's shooting.

And not a single fuck was given that day. Seriously, nobody is going to listen him...No matter how valid a point he has.

 

[Slash-LN]

That's a fine line you're treading here because you need a lot of evidence to correctly identify why killing another one of your own is justified but this incident is on the completely wrong end (I'm not accusing you of saying this murder could be justified here, I'm just bringing up a point in general which is...)

How does one justify shooting and killing innocent children? Something must have seriously fucked these shooters up mentally if they had to urge to go on a killing spree such as this. My prayers and condolences go out to everyone involved, except the shooters. Fuck the shooters.

-----------------------------------------------

In Australia, it is difficult to obtain and maintain firearms. There are certain procedures you must follow in order to have access to a gun such as attending a certain amount of tournament/sporting events to make sure you are holding a firearm for sporting purposes... and that's only to get your Paintball Gun licence. There is more entailed for those who want the "bigger" guns.

It works for us (as in the sense that we don't have as many huge shooting as America does) so why can't it work for the States?

If you want an example of a murder that was "justified" I'll give you one.
A couple towns over a man was having a cookout at his house. Someone came up to him and told him one of the guests had taken his daughter to another location on the property. When he went to check it out he found the man molesting his daughter. He beat the man to death. No charges were brought against him because it was deemed a justified killing.

 

[Stormtrooper]

Well, you could quit criticizing those who wish to prevent it from happening again, for starters.

I'm criticizing the timing, which is shit.

Then quit turning this into one. I'm saying we need to do what makes our country safer. That's not political at all. How in the world can you see safety for children as political?

Again, I never turned it into a political debate, I read a thread that was already one. Gun Control this, Gun Control that. Gun Control is a POLITICAL issue. You can try and mask it as a safety issue, but the sad truth is that it's actually a political issue.

It's a time to do both. They need not be mutually exclusive. When 9/11 happened, we grieved as a country, even as aircraft carriers were speeding to the Middle East, while the armies were being raised and intelligence was being gathered for the best plan of attack.

We grieved. We didn't start publicly solving the problem until the days that followed, because we gave the country TIME, which is what you are not doing.

You can grieve, and still do what's necessary to prevent it from happening again.

Yes. And we will, since the grieving process will likely take forever. But seriously, the day of a national tragedy isn't the time for political debate. It's a day to mourn and gather your thoughts so that you can figure out the best way to fix the problem.

Those "professionals", as you call them, answer to me and all other citizens. And if I'm worried about it, or more importantly if our country is worried about it, then they need to be worried about it.

Yes they do, but these people are not on Wrestlezone, so why talk about it here, other then to engage in political debate? Oh yeah, because that's exactly what you WANTED to do. You didn't go and gather a mob of local residents and march to your congressmans office, you debated on an internet wrestling forum about the topic. That isn't gonna help things.

Bull-fucking-shit.

Just because the gun lobby has turned American safety into a political issue so they can continue to make money off the deaths of Americans, that doesn't mean searching for ways to keep our children safe is political.

I honestly cannot understand how you think trying to prevent future children from being murdered is political.

I don't. American Safety and Gun Control are not the same thing. Believe it or not, guns are not exclusively used for killing people. They're used for other, legal matters as well. Hence why it's a political issue.

Wait wait wait...I thought you were against making this a political issue? Because what you just said is every bit as political as gun control, not to mention, requiring of politicians to require it.


Nevermind the fact this guy didn't just waltz into school, reports now say he forced his way into the school.

increasing security in a school has virtually nothing to do with politics, as all it takes is the school hiring a fucking security guard/company. Gun Control takes bitching to politicians until they make a new law. Hence Gun Control is political, and security isn't.

The pen is mightier than the sword, my friend. Or, in this case, keyboard.

You're trying to prevent people from talking. You claim it's too early to talk about it, and want us to wait until the horror is gone. I'm telling you that idea is insulting and dangerous. And the more people who are willing to get mad about it, the more people will demand their representative do something about it, or face being kicked out in the next election.

Frederick Douglass never picked up a gun, but his contribution to progress in this country cannot be understated. I'm no Frederick Douglass, but he's proof words are part of the process.

I never tried to prevent people from ever talking. I tried to keep people from talking about it THE DAY OF THE FUCKING TRAGEDY. How hard is that to grasp?

And I'm telling you safety is not politics, no matter how much you want to pretend it is.

I never said safety wasn't politics. I said GUN CONTROL is. Because, get this, you were talking about GUN FUCKING CONTROL. Jesus Christ.

As a teacher myself, who deals with hundreds of children on any every day basis...fuck you.

I most certainly am trying to protect the kids. You don't begin to know the things I do to try and protect kids, so often simply through talking.

I was saying that you were talking about GUN CONTROL (again, political topic) not Child Safety. I'm sorry for any miscommunication my poor grammar in that phrase posed, it was not at all meant as disrespect towards you and I'm sorry. I am well aware of your profession and that you do that and it was not my intention to state otherwise.

No, YOU'RE talking politics. I'm talking safety.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Is+gun+control+a+political+issue?

If you look there, the only things you will find that side with you are opinion pieces. Everything else (news talking about gun laws, fact-gathering sites, etc) coincides with what I said.

And I'm saying this country hadn't even gotten over mourning what happened at a mall in Oregon last week, or in a theater in Colorado in July.

It's time we quit being paralyzed with our mourning and fucking do something to stop people from having to mourn. We can grieve, we can mourn, but why the fuck should we not do what's necessary to stop from having to mourn incidences like these in the future?

And all I said was give it a fucking day. I never said never bring it up. I said give it a fucking day or so.

Then you'll never get it. If you think protecting children from gunfire is political, then perhaps your grasp on reality is as poor as most on the forum claim it is.

Quit putting fucking words in my fucking mouth. Never have I once said that protecting children from gunfire is political. GUN CONTROL is political. You were debating GUN CONTROL the day of a national tragedy. I took offense to THAT.

So is someone who thinks safety is political.

And since I never once claimed that, whatever. I just claimed that GUN CONTROL is political. You were debating GUN CONTROL, which again is POLITICAL.

When you argue against the safety of human beings, you can never be right.

And since I never did, this statement is irrelevant. Safety is insanely important. It's just that GUN CONTROL talk should wait a fucking day or so to let people mourn.

So then will you carry the banner tomorrow for stricter gun control? Or the day after these children have been buried?

Actually, yeah, I would be in favor of it. always have been. Just won't talk about it the DAY OF A FUCKING TRAGEDY. That day I would fucking mourn, and then get back to it as soon as I felt ready to. Personally, I'm pretty much there.

When exactly do you propose we work to ensure the safety of children from guns?

Fucking Monday. is it all that hard to give people a few days? I mean it's one business day.

You can say it all you want, but you're completely wrong.

That is a matter of opinion, which you're entitled to. Of course it is incorrect, but whatever. Even legends like yourself are wrong every once in a blue moon.

The time to discuss it is when it is still fresh in our minds how much it hurts. Because the longer we wait, the more apathetic we become...until it happens again. We've waited for decades, and nothing has been done. I'm tired of waiting. I'm tired of people being senselessly murdered by weapons they don't need to have.

As am I, but running my mouth about something the day of the fucking tragedy isn't the way to go about fixing the situation. Let the people start to grieve before you badger them non-stop about Gun LAWS (again, LAWS, i.e. political issue).

So let's just make a deal. You wait three days before posting in this thread again...I'm going to continue telling everyone why you're wrong. And when those three days are up, come on back into the thread and side with us.

Yeah fuck that shit. You will poison a thread for 3 days bad-mouthing me? Hell no. I will defend my honor which was unjustly tarnished.




Seriously, if it wasn't my name attached to the first post I had on the topic, 99% of the people here wouldn't have said anything, and probably would have agreed.