At least 27 People Dead, 18 of them children.

[Rayne]

The last time there was a ground invasion of Britain was in 1066.

Wow, really? I mean, I'm not too up on my pre-French Revolution European history, but the French or ze Germans never made it across in all that time? Way to go, guys!

 

[Thriller Ant]

Wow, really? I mean, I'm not too up on my pre-French Revolution European history, but the French or ze Germans never made it across in all that time? Way to go, guys!

The Germans only did the air raids, they didn't do anything on the ground in England.

 

[Gelgarin]

I've met people who seem alarmingly open to crackpot nonsense on the grounds of "but how can you be sure", but no, no apocalypse believers.

 

[Tastycles]

It's all of the guns we were hoarding in the middle ages.

 

[Natural Selection]

Please, please answer this question for me.

Exactly who do you think would have launched a ground invasion of the US if you didn't have an armed population?

It was just an example of one of the benefits of guns.

 

[klunderbunker]

The last time there was a ground invasion of Britain was in 1066.

Now for those of you who are smart, what is a geographical feature that England and America share regarding borders?

 

[Beastmode 24]

To be completely fair to the argument, small arms fire can be a serious pain in the ass to a well-equipped and trained military in an urban environment. For recent examples, take Grozny during the First Chechen War, Fallujah in Iraq, or Mogadishu. (With Mogadishu, you have to factor in the rocket-propelled grenade, but the overall point remains.)

However, the Canadian hordes aren't being held at bay by the thought of urban warfare in Syracuse, at least, not this century.

Fucking Fallujah. Actually, the whole war in Iraq and the one in Afghan is proof of what armed civilians can do.

 

[Rayne]

The Germans only did the air raids, they didn't do anything on the ground in England.

I was thinking more about the various hordes and clans springing up in the area now called Germany around the earlier part of the last millennium. I figured someone would have poked their head across the Channel.

 

[Beastmode 24]

Now for those of you who are smart, what is a geographical feature that England and America share regarding borders?

Well America's borders to the East and West are both pretty fucking big oceans.

 

[Gelgarin]

It was just an example of one of the benefits of guns.

What benefit? Who is, was or will be planning to attack the US only to be put off by all the gun nuts?

Also; technically the French landed troops on the Isle of Wight in the 1500's. It didn't hold. Something to do with boats I think.

 

[klunderbunker]

Well America's borders to the East and West are both pretty fucking big oceans.

You mean it's that we don't aren't a landlocked country and not that we don't have guns? Surely you jest!

 

[Tastycles]

But Britain, which has spent 900 of the last 1000 years being 20 miles away from it's rivals, has never been invaded. There has not, during the last 1000 years, been a large amount of guns in this country. Therefore your argument falls flat. I don't think anyone is saying "disarm the army".

 

[klunderbunker]

What benefit? Who is, was or will be planning to attack the US only to be put off by all the gun nuts?

Also; technically the French landed troops on the Isle of Wight in the 1500's. It didn't hold. Something to do with boats I think.

I don't know if you've ever heard of it but there's a police show from the 1960s called Dragnet that is so realistic it was used as police training films in Los Angeles.

There's an episode where the cops are answering questions while on a panel. This subject comes up and one of them says "if a foreign country invades our shores, do you honestly think that you and a handgun are going to be able to hold them off?"

Somehow, it seems this isn't an obvious answer to some people.

 

[Beastmode 24]

What benefit? Who is, was or will be planning to attack the US only to be put off by all the gun nuts?

North Korea. Haven't you watched Red Dawn?

No seriously, I don't think anyone will, because not only do we have a pretty badass Military Abroad, All of us here at home will defend what we have. Plus I know of at least 150 people that all own guns in my general geographic area, so I think there is something to be said about private citizens that own guns defending our country as well.

Granted they won't be the only ones that would fight, but It wouldn't hurt.

 

[Rayne]

Fucking Fallujah. Actually, the whole war in Iraq and the one in Afghan is proof of what armed civilians can do.

Create an annoyance for an invading army for a few years. The toll to an individual from Fallujah is staggering; from military perspective, it was a blip on the radar.

The idea of an armed insurgency isn't to repel invasion, but to increase the costs to an invader over a period of time, making the cost in lives and money no longer worth the invasion. (See: Afghanistan.) America is simply too big of a country, too far away, to suppress by armed invasion, with or without an armed populace. You could limit Americans to defending the country with sharpened pencils, and the land/population issue of administrating an occupation would make it impossible for an invading power.

 

[Thriller Ant]

I was thinking more about the various hordes and clans springing up in the area now called Germany around the earlier part of the last millennium. I figured someone would have poked their head across the Channel.

Oh gotcha. When you said Germany, the only time I can think of that Germany was in a position to invade was WWII. I didn't think that far back.

 

[Natural Selection]

All I know is that my odds of surviving a home invasion are far greater with a gun then without.

 

[Beastmode 24]

Create an annoyance for an invading army for a few years. The toll to an individual from Fallujah is staggering; from military perspective, it was a blip on the radar.

The idea of an armed insurgency isn't to repel invasion, but to increase the costs to an invader over a period of time, making the cost in lives and money no longer worth the invasion. (See: Afghanistan.) America is simply too big of a country, too far away, to suppress by armed invasion, with or without an armed populace. You could limit Americans to defending the country with sharpened pencils, and the land/population issue of administrating an occupation would make it impossible for an invading power.

Trust me. I know first hand how aggrivating those motherfuckers got. They were honestly a bigger nuisance than anything else, but they were effective in lowering morale and making us feel pretty aggrivated. Their main goal was to take our eyes off of the mission at hand, and they were pretty goddamn good at that.

 

[Beastmode 24]

All I know is that my odds of surviving a home invasion are far greater with a gun then without.

Oh yeah. I have a .45 in my nightstand by my bed, a gun in my living room and a gun in our guest bed room.

You come in my house, and you're gonna leave with a couple of holes.

 

[Natural Selection]

Oh yeah. I have a .45 in my nightstand by my bed, a gun in my living room and a gun in our guest bed room.

You come in my house, and you're gonna leave with a couple of holes.

Exactly.

 

[Rayne]

Trust me. I know first hand how aggrivating those motherfuckers got. They were honestly a bigger nuisance than anything else, but they were effective in lowering morale and making us feel pretty aggrivated. Their main goal was to take our eyes off of the mission at hand, and they were pretty goddamn good at that.

As I said, on an individual basis, yes. On a tactical basis, they presented difficulties to an occupying power which were overcome with men, materiel, and technology, in a relatively short period of time.

I don't think the goal in repelling an invasion is to aggravate Marines for a few weeks.

 

[Beastmode 24]

Oh I agree. But on a consistant level, the insurgency in Iraq didn't just last a few weeks. We had to deal with this shit for years.

 

[Tastycles]

Also; technically the French landed troops on the Isle of Wight in the 1500's. It didn't hold. Something to do with boats I think.

If we're speaking technically, I actually said Britain. Not UK.

All I know is that my odds of surviving a home invasion are far greater with a gun then without.

It's true to say that you're twice as likely to be burgled in the UK as in the US, but you're 30 times more likely to have someone accidentally killed by a firearm in your home. These are the facts, it's up to you to decide if that trade off is worth it.

 

[Rayne]

This all goes without saying that a far more effective tool for keeping America out of war (at least, ones that we didn't want) has been the Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile. It's pretty dicey deciding to launch an invasion of North America if the price is having your cities turned to radioactive rubble in a matter of minutes from any point on the globe.

 

[Natural Selection]

If we're speaking technically, I actually said Britain. Not UK.



It's true to say that you're twice as likely to be burgled in the UK as in the US, but you're 30 times more likely to have someone accidentally killed by a firearm in your home. These are the facts, it's up to you to decide if that trade off is worth it.

I'll take my chances.