A Sane Man's Veiw on CM Punk's Title Win.

[TWJC: The Beginning]

TWJC The Beginning:

Now I am a very liberal person when it comes to reading into other ppl's post and possiblitites of other meanings than what i might see originaly, but your post is an economic one, one which I minered in Along side my B.A. in Poli. Sci. at U.T. Austin

Cat. sales were up 31% B/C of heavy equipment sales by dealers in the perid ending oct. 31st. Sales in N. America rose 38%, beating the 26% in the period ending 9/30. This was due a 32% jump in sales in SE Asia, EU, and Afrca. The concerns of EU's. spreading debt crisis didn't effect Cat's growth as its value remained stable due to investor focus by continent.

Cat is the worlds largest heavy equip maker, and one of the top 6 largest industries driving the U.S. economy.

The 30% drop you were referring to was off a year high in may, and it was due to a valuation adjustment in-line with the stock market.

How you are a comparing that with WWE is beyond me, but I will explain the WWE in the post above.

TWJC The Beginning:

Continuation from my pervious post:

As to your claims about Ratings, Buy rates, and attendance not being important or relevant today: Exactly what are the main sourses of revenue for the WWE? How are their financial reports based on?

People buy tickets based on their attitude for the product. If the product is strong, than regardless of the economy, they will buy tickets. In-fact, in 2009, when the recession was at it's peak, WWE had it's best year financialy since 2001. Entertainment is not one of the things that tend to suffer during a recession. It's the housing market, business R&D investvent, the airlines industry, the buying of new goods and equipment, stock investment, and the price of imports vs exports due to the valuation of the dollar.

The only how the WWE is effected by a recession is b/c of the devaluation of the Dollar, bringing it's purchasing power and market share down.

but as a percentage of people buying WWE's product it's self has remained stable.

TWJC THE BEGINING:

My Last Continuation:

The WWE was a weaker company 03-07, durring an economic rising period following the 2001 recession caused by the burst of the tech. "tech bubble".

during the "housing bubble" burst that crahed the banking system in oct. 08, leading to the current recession, the WWE was doing better than the previous years and continued to grow through 2009 at the hieght of the recession.

PPV buys did not suffer, attendance was up, and ratings were better than today.

The amount of house holds with TV's goes up each year and that causes an adjustment in the veiwer percentage as a rating. 5 million viewers watching 10 years ago would bring a 4.0, today it would garner a 3.3. And ratings drive one of the top two main sources of revenue because it translates into advertizing dollars.

And PPV buys are down since 2009, the height of the recession, (exception WM27) and it has to do with the amount of viewers that find the product worth the money.

I compared CAT to the WWE because, as I said, sometimes the economic cycle hurts. Sometimes it just drops. Also, CAT may have been over price, but it dropped a LOT more than it should have. Luckily, that created a fantastic buying opportunity.

Of course you use ratings because they bring in revenue, however, in this ever changing environment, you can't use it as the only source of "popularity". There are ALSO more free stream channels. Hell you don't even have to download a streamtorrent or any kind of torrent software anymore, you can find tube channels that have the PPVs. Again, the markets change and they don't always correlate with the market.

I also have a minor in economics, however I also study business. Business is more applicable to the WWE than Poly Sci. I'm not going to argue who's smarter. Typically looking at things as they happen is pretty subjective. It takes years to fully understand something.

In my opinion, maybe WWE is less popular, maybe it's not. Maybe it's not because maybe it's not a statistically significan amount. Maybe it's not because of random fluctuations. Or maybe it's not because the audience is being spread out so much more. With the recession came people finding new ways to get their fix. I don't even have TV. I watch everything online. A lot of people are like me because 15 bucks a month for 6meg is cheaper than 40 a month for shit mediacom.

Your viewpoint of the economics of the situation aren't in a broad enough scope. Think of everything that could possibly be happening.

Also, what are you basing the statement of "weaker company"? Income? Cash flow? Stock price? Ratings? Income can be manipulated by accountants, same thing with cash flow. The stock of WWE is mostly held by a few people. WWE isn't a stock that is going to fluctuate very much. It's essentially been in the same price range for the past 10 years.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

What CM Punk said about Alberto Del Rio on RAW : "You are single dimensional" etc etc He just buried Alberto Del Rio and I completely lost intrest in the WWE Title Match at that moment. It was pretty clear he was gonna win the Title when he said that and it completely buried Alberto Del Rio and his credibility.And yeah CM Punk has never sold out an arena and probably never will.

As somebody who was at Money in the Bank, and as a Chicago citizen...I would like to inform you of two things:

1)The Allstate Arena was legitimately sold out, and they even opened new sections on the floor that the WWE hasn't used since WrestleMania 22, to accommodate for last minute gate-buys. But thank you for once again, spreading your ignorance... Why is anybody blaming Punk for cutting on del Rio's one-dimensional character? That's what he does... He did it against the McMahons, Triple H, John Cena, John Laurinaitis, etc etc. Trouble with ADR is...it's true!

2)The fact that you weren't nominated for Worst Poster of the Year is blowing my mind right now... I can't stand Ryan86, but at least he's used what he perceives as facts to back up his claims. And while we're on that subject...REALLY RYAN? You had to create ANOTHER thread about CM Punk, which in theory should be different, but in your approach is EXACTLY the same!? Was the almost 200-post-long thread not enough for you, or did you need ALL of the forums to tell you that you're a moron?

All you are doing at this point is padding your post count, saying the same damn things over and over again and getting new people to argue with you. Give it up, wait a few months...or years...and have this discussion again when there is actually proof to validate ANYTHING you say.

I'm done. Bash me as much as you want, and say what you will... I was beating a dead horse two days ago when this shit started. At this point I consumed the god damn horse and crapped it out just to beat on it some more. I'm still picking your ignorance out from between my ass cheeks. GOOD DAY TO YOU SIR!

I SAID GOOD DAY!

 

[Peoples_Champ]

I also have a minor in economics, however I also study business. Business is more applicable to the WWE than Poly Sci. I'm not going to argue who's smarter.

I'm smarter. I have an MBA in finance in marketing. Put that in your pipe and smoke it

I know you're both arguing about the financial impact of the recession on the WWE, but it has to be said that less disposable income for Americans equates to fewer people at the actual events - this does not mean the product is more or less popular than before, it just means that loyal customers who cannot afford to purchase the product will become a "free consumer" (watch the free TV product, read websites, download streams of PPVs).

What you and ryan86 don't realize is that a 3.0 this year equates to higher advertising revenue than a 4.0 a few years ago. Especially with non-core business units (like WWE Films and their upcoming WWE Network), the WWE has made more money on advertising now than it ever has in the past. That's why twitter is over-promoted, basically WWE is selling the cult popularity of their superstars so corporations see how someone like Zack Ryder can deliver results to their marketing campaigns (i.e. the types of people who use #WWWYKI, analysis of their purchase behavior and consumer preferences are more easily discernible).

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I'm smarter. I have an MBA in finance in marketing. Put that in your pipe and smoke it

I know you're both arguing about the financial impact of the recession on the WWE, but it has to be said that less disposable income for Americans equates to fewer people at the actual events - this does not mean the product is more or less popular than before, it just means that loyal customers who cannot afford to purchase the product will become a "free consumer" (watch the free TV product, read websites, download streams of PPVs).

What you and ryan86 don't realize is that a 3.0 this year equates to higher advertising revenue than a 4.0 a few years ago. Especially with non-core business units (like WWE Films and their upcoming WWE Network), the WWE has made more money on advertising now than it ever has in the past. That's why twitter is over-promoted, basically WWE is selling the cult popularity of their superstars so corporations see how someone like Zack Ryder can deliver results to their marketing campaigns (i.e. the types of people who use #WWWYKI, analysis of their purchase behavior and consumer preferences are more easily discernible).

I've actually been saying that you can't compare numbers directly since I've been posting here, so yea, I realize that.

Also, something else I've been saying the whole time is when you say "free streams". Do you not read what I said? Or did you just read it and then rewrite it in your own words and expand a little on it? I mean, I said "people found new ways to get their fix" and had an entire discussion with someone about the advertisements on PPV because the buys were low BECAUSE of the free streaming that's become more and more available. Shit I even talked about how the free stream "market" has gotten easier where you don't even have to download software, just find a tube site in time.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

I've actually been saying that you can't compare numbers directly since I've been posting here, so yea, I realize that.

Also, something else I've been saying the whole time is when you say "free streams". Do you not read what I said? Or did you just read it and then rewrite it in your own words and expand a little on it? I mean, I said "people found new ways to get their fix" and had an entire discussion with someone about the advertisements on PPV because the buys were low BECAUSE of the free streaming that's become more and more available. Shit I even talked about how the free stream "market" has gotten easier where you don't even have to download software, just find a tube site in time.

To be honest, I didn't really read what you guys were arguing about. I drew my own conclusion and assumed I had the gist of it. To be even more honest, I was more agreeing with you and disagreeing with ryan86.

Anyhoo, my main point was that revenue generated through advertising is higher now than it ever has been, first because of the number of ways this can be drawn and second because its simply a more accessible stream for WWE.

 

[BK Styles]

DaggerDias:

Uh.. how many years do you think is fair i give him?

This isnt his first title rein nor his first push. And as to his popularity gaining, how many facts do I have to point out b4 people realize the reality. So far he's been a net negative or neil in every financial indicator. Net negative 31,000 buys in punk headlined events. Ratings: 4.48 million viewers in non Punk Segments, 4.52 million in Punk-oriented segs. Attendance has remained stable at 6,100.

If this is the rise of a punk phenomenom, im not objectivly seeing it.

But he has ignited his base, and that explains the good merchandise sells.

Punk has been good for Punk. But I dont see any "coat-tail" effect... yet.

i am prepared to give him 4 months. If all business indicators dont improve with him on top, the WWE will look else where.

I'd just like to point something out here......you say this isn't the first title reign he's had. True. What it is, is the first reign he's had in the role of legit main eventer:

First reign: booked as an underdog with MITB

Second and third reign: Booked as a heel

Both of those are going to have effects on how much he sells, and how big an effect he is going to have on buyrates. The last few months are Punk first legitimate shot at being a main eventer. You ask how long he should be given? That's not for any of us to say. If WWE are unhappy with him, they will remove him. But right now, he's fun to watch. He puts on good matches in the ring, he's entertaining, and he's growing.

For the love of all that's holy, give him time. Rome wasn't built in a day, and a superstar wasn't made in a small set of buyrates.

Also......I agree with Mike. Why have you made another Punk thread that echoes your last one so much? There is literally no point in this thread at all with the other one you made.

You have facts you attempt to base your argument on; so many people do not do that and for trying it, I applaud you. But your argument against Punk is poor. It's plausable, but I'm not buying it, and very few are from the looks of things. Just let it go.

 

[dotty_84]

Unbelievable topic, i'm honestly starting to believe he is an uber troller.

Now i just want to clear something about certain folk saying Punk can't sell nor will sell out arenas.

Look Punk has talent, he isn't SCSA! sure he might have litle bits here and there similiar but everyone has pieces they've used or taken from wrestlers, that's what wrestling is, recycled!

If you actually listen to the majority of Punks promos during the summer he was speaking the truth, opertunities get handed to a select few and guys who bust there ass often don't get recognised.

WWE product as a whole could vastly improve due to one main thing, take off the hand cuffs. Let guys speak their mind within reason give them marks to hit but let the rest be from there own minds and not some script, it gives unpredictability to promos and builds. Older wrestling fans know that it's preditermind but having everything else be a little bit unplanned not to 100% script gives it something special.

I believe Punk is trying to change that. Ryan seems pissed at Punk dissing ADR telling him he is boring....news flash he fucking is!! this should do two things, make ADR tweak his character or not. If not he's nothing special and doesn't deserve a push he is getting.

If Punk slates someone to up their game, that's his fault? no it's a great thing and nice to see a guy care about the product and not be there just to pick up his cheque.

You take the chains off creatively not only will wrestling be better for the future, it'll create, more realistic and more characters.

Fact!