CM Punk's Face Turn

[CmPunker]

This BEGGED to be taken apart as it's completely ridiculous logic.

Cena, no matter how many people hate him, is the FACE of WWE right now and is probably the most over, if split reaction of any guy on the full time roster. To say he's not a big enough star clearly shows bias rather then actual fact.

i know cena is face of the company, but he is not over enough to become one.. u see his reaction? only HALF cheers.. face of the company SHOULD get ALLLLL cheers..

Ryback is a newcomer that also post jobbing to Punk has had his character buried in bad booking and storylines, even the run with Cena buried Ryback further as Ryback was forced to get on the mic, which is determental to him as he simply can't talk.

no, ryback was doing fine until he turned heel and faced john cena. then he was fed to john cena and cena ruined so much of his momentum. now where is ryback? he is fighting chris jericho, wow, so special, huh??

To dismiss Jericho as a jobber is ridiculous as well cause the man is still widely popular, drawing and a great worker that Vince and the booking commitee can put with someone in need of a boost in order to get a decent reaction and maybe gate out of. This man who also if you have might forgotten in his intial return to WWE fueded with JBL that drew no interest and then suddenly had one of the hottest angles in the company with HBK, he also did something similar with Punk a year back and drew significant heat.....Jericho is also on his own chosen schedule these days and doesn't need to be in a hot fued ever month to be usable

jericho is not popular.. u see his reactions? no reaction when he comes on out. chris jericho is so irrelevant, old, and he lost to fucking fandango. look at his ppv record, he lose almost all his ppv matches.. nobody takes him as a REAL main eventer. there are 2 types of main eventers. the transitional main event jobbers (christian, chris jerihco, kane) and the REAL main eventers (undertake, hhh, the rock, john cena).. i just wish that cm punk will become a REAL main eventer. but to become one, he must main event wrestlemania ANDDDD defeat either hhh, undertaker, or lesnar.. he has not had a single victory over a top star yet, which is sad. wwe would RATHER give us a long reign, instead of important victories.

Yes, Cena was pushed over him, that to the nature of this new enviroment in the WWE where all titles have been devalued....they have been since the Invasion angle where new titles from WCW were thrown into WWE as well as creating a bloated roster....that's just what you have to deal with these days.

cena did not deserve to be pushed over him. cena vs laurintis? seriously? that is a slap in the face to every hard worker. cena vs big show? wow, we seen that so many fucking times.. obvious "dragon slaying" match. stupid matches main eventing = devalue championship

However WWE can be credited with trying to make Punk's title reign impressive with the length of the run and the fact they STILL use that as a selling point when discussing him, as he does in his promos. Also dispite the nature of WWE crowds being dead a fair bit of the time, he is also one of the most wildly popular men as face or heel in the company....to say he is not over during this face run is rather idiotic.

i will not give wwe credit because they make cm punk look like a pussy on the road to wrestlemania.. he lost to the rock twice and john cena once.. and he was fighting UNDERTAKER, if he cant beat the rock or cena, how can he beat undertaker? simple fucking logic, yet wwe creative fails at it. i know cm punk is over, but wwe will never push him to his peak, to the legend status that he wants.

Punk hasn't yet established his turn yet, he's in the process of doing so....and this fued with Lesnar will solidfy that turn, guaranteed.

his feud with lesnar? lol what a fuckign joke. i am a cm punk fan, but i admit that his physique and in ring skills are HORRIBLE. his physique is one of the worst on the roster and his in ring skills are so sloppy sinceh e came back.. i noticed that he has some in ring rust, or lack of motivation, or BOTH. his match with del rio, his match with randy orton, and with darren young, he was just so sloppy and slow. especially with randy orton match, sloppy elbow and sloppy kick. he needs to get rid of his in ring rust and improve, or he will not be a threat to lesnar. and dont compare cm punk's physique to shawn michaels, eddie, or chris benoit.. look okay, shawn michaels in his prime was muscular as fuck, eddie was on steroids and thats why his arms are like 3 times the size of cm punk, and chris benoit was also muscular as a mother fucker... to make up for bad physique, u MUST have good in ring skills. but lets see cm punks in ring skills.. he is SLOW in the ring for somebody who is so skinny, he is SLOPPY (look at his elbow move and gts, he barly hits with gts on the HEAD), and his finisher is too LONG. shawn michaels finisher is quick and can be hit out of nowhere, cm punk take too long to hit..also cm punk is not that good a technician like kurt angle is. kurt angle is fucking strong. he can carry big show like he is nothing. cm punk cannot do that.

so basically, what i am saying is that these people (kurt angle, hbk, chris, eddie) have a decent physique (tons of muscles) AND they have good in ring skills to back it up (kurt angle is strong and good technician, hbk good technician and quick finisher, eddie has tons of muscles, chris has tons of muscles and muscular as fuck)..

so i dont think cm punk will benefit from lesnar feud.. cm punk will look like a fucking chicken in front of lesnar, unless creative team is smart enough to make the victory look good? but i highly doubt it, either they will make lesnar look like shit or they will make punk look like shit.. both men need a win. lesnar lose like 70% of his ppv matches, cm punk has NO big victory this year.. cm punk has been losing too much to like undertaker and the rock. so basically, i am saying BOTH men need a big win and putting them in a feud together will only be a win-lose situation. only way i can see cm punk retaining credibility and lesnar keep credibility in a WIN-WIN situation is a fucking STEEL CAGE MATCH. but will wwe creative be smart enough? will creative be smart enough???????

 

[Clutch]

i know cena is face of the company, but he is not over enough to become one.. u see his reaction? only HALF cheers.. face of the company SHOULD get ALLLLL cheers..

In this day and age, with kayfabe being practically dead,cheers are not any determination about who should be pushed as franchise brands, Cena still sells tickets, merchandise, does the press junket, is a great ambassador for WWE with charities and loves doing those things....THAT is why he is the face of the company, much like Hogan was in the 80's and Austin was during the Attitude era.

no, ryback was doing fine until he turned heel and faced john cena. then he was fed to john cena and cena ruined so much of his momentum. now where is ryback? he is fighting chris jericho, wow, so special, huh??

Blame bad WWE booking, Ryback's own poor performance when put in that spot and a glut on monster heels right now. However, him and Jericho may not be main event, it's still an upper card match.

jericho is not popular.. u see his reactions? no reaction when he comes on out. chris jericho is so irrelevant, old, and he lost to fucking fandango. look at his ppv record, he lose almost all his ppv matches.. nobody takes him as a REAL main eventer. there are 2 types of main eventers. the transitional main event jobbers (christian, chris jerihco, kane) and the REAL main eventers (undertake, hhh, the rock, john cena).. i just wish that cm punk will become a REAL main eventer. but to become one, he must main event wrestlemania ANDDDD defeat either hhh, undertaker, or lesnar.. he has not had a single victory over a top star yet, which is sad. wwe would RATHER give us a long reign, instead of important victories.

Jericho is irrelevant? LOL The reason they put Jericho with Fandango was to get Fandango over....his debut was at 'Mania for crying out loud. Who better to put a new character making their in-ring debut at the biggest show of the year then a good hand that also is still relevant and also is over to a point where a loss like that doesn't do anything to tarnish his own credibility....which it hasn't.

Also your statement about main event jobbers is so flawed, you don't get to the main event by being a jobber...do you even know what the term jobber means?

And Punk's had victories over top stars, Cena, Jericho. Hell if you remember the angle that led up to Punk winning the title in the first place, you'd realize that he was given a HUGE rub by not only going over Cena but by giving Punk a title run length of over a year in this day and age when titles are dropped nearly every month is a statement of it own.

cena did not deserve to be pushed over him. cena vs laurintis? seriously? that is a slap in the face to every hard worker. cena vs big show? wow, we seen that so many fucking times.. obvious "dragon slaying" match. stupid matches main eventing = devalue championship

The championship has been devalued for a long time now, since the Invasion really. Punk gave it some value again with his run. But Rock and Cena devalued it back again...the championship devaluing iis a subject for another thread, and has nothing to do with Punk or Cena

i will not give wwe credit because they make cm punk look like a pussy on the road to wrestlemania.. he lost to the rock twice and john cena once.. and he was fighting UNDERTAKER, if he cant beat the rock or cena, how can he beat undertaker? simple fucking logic, yet wwe creative fails at it. i know cm punk is over, but wwe will never push him to his peak, to the legend status that he wants.

You do realize that Punk was in the heel role and it was his job to come across like that in order to get the angle over right? And that WWE would not have booked him with 'Taker at 'Mania in the first place if they were not selling the point that this guy is not only a main eventer but is the future of the company. You don't also legitimately think for one second that 'Taker was going to lose at 'Mania do you?

his feud with lesnar? lol what a fuckign joke. i am a cm punk fan, but i admit that his physique and in ring skills are HORRIBLE. his physique is one of the worst on the roster and his in ring skills are so sloppy sinceh e came back.. i noticed that he has some in ring rust, or lack of motivation, or BOTH. his match with del rio, his match with randy orton, and with darren young, he was just so sloppy and slow. especially with randy orton match, sloppy elbow and sloppy kick. he needs to get rid of his in ring rust and improve, or he will not be a threat to lesnar. and dont compare cm punk's physique to shawn michaels, eddie, or chris benoit.. look okay, shawn michaels in his prime was muscular as fuck, eddie was on steroids and thats why his arms are like 3 times the size of cm punk, and chris benoit was also muscular as a mother fucker... to make up for bad physique, u MUST have good in ring skills. but lets see cm punks in ring skills.. he is SLOW in the ring for somebody who is so skinny, he is SLOPPY (look at his elbow move and gts, he barly hits with gts on the HEAD), and his finisher is too LONG. shawn michaels finisher is quick and can be hit out of nowhere, cm punk take too long to hit..also cm punk is not that good a technician like kurt angle is. kurt angle is fucking strong. he can carry big show like he is nothing. cm punk cannot do that.

This is by far the dumbest thing yet from you, and trust me...reading your shit on here is laughable to think you have a fucking clue about wrestling, never mind CM Punk.

Punk is not going to be pumped to the gills, his frame is small and athletic without looking overdone. Christ, that in itself is a joke but when you said he has horible in ring skills you basically said "I'm a mark that thinks he knows what I'm talking about." Rewatch Punk vs Samoa Joe II in ROH, a legitimate 5-star (Meltzer rated) match and the entire feud pulled no less then 4-stars for each match. His ring work is one of the best in the company (Bryan, Jericho, Lesnar) He moves well, has a good skill set, has the right idea about ring psychology and what he does or doesn't do draws reactions.

Please fucking give up, for a so-called Punk fan you really have no fucking clue about what you are trying to talk about. You compare fucking Darren Young who isn't over, who isn't main event quality to people like HHH and HBK. What? And then say in order for Punk to be over he needs to essentially be jacked up and "learn skills" that he already has in abundance.

so i dont think cm punk will benefit from lesnar feud.. cm punk will look like a fucking chicken in front of lesnar, unless creative team is smart enough to make the victory look good? but i highly doubt it, either they will make lesnar look like shit or they will make punk look like shit.. both men need a win. lesnar lose like 70% of his ppv matches, cm punk has NO big victory this year.. cm punk has been losing too much to like undertaker and the rock. so basically, i am saying BOTH men need a big win and putting them in a feud together will only be a win-lose situation. only way i can see cm punk retaining credibility and lesnar keep credibility in a WIN-WIN situation is a fucking STEEL CAGE MATCH. but will wwe creative be smart enough? will creative be smart enough???????

You haven't even seen the fucking feud pick up steam yet, all we've seen thus far is Lesnar's attack on Punk and the storyline promos surrounding Punk and Heyman......give it time here you so-called Punk fan.

Now, go back to school...and please watch more wrestling....it might help with your arguements next time

 

[CmPunker]

In this day and age, with kayfabe being practically dead,cheers are not any determination about who should be pushed as franchise brands, Cena still sells tickets, merchandise, does the press junket, is a great ambassador for WWE with charities and loves doing those things....THAT is why he is the face of the company, much like Hogan was in the 80's and Austin was during the Attitude era.

cena sells tickets my fucking ass man.. i wonder why raw is not sold out every night even though he is wwe champion? lol, exactly. merchandise? cm punk surpassed him already, cm punk does press stuff too.. cm punk is more likable guy honestly, cena is not relatable to, he is super cena.

cm punk should be the face of the fucking company. he has the charisma, the mic skills, the look, and the "it" factor to connect to the audience. give someone else a chance to be #1, cena. u have been cena for far too long, why dont u let someone else run with the ball? cuz u dont want people to surpass you and then wwe will realize that punk is ab etter draw, right??? cm punk will fucking surpass cena if he is #1 face of the company.

Blame bad WWE booking, Ryback's own poor performance when put in that spot and a glut on monster heels right now. However, him and Jericho may not be main event, it's still an upper card match.

no. i fucking blame john cena for not knowing how to put people over. all he does is smile and laugh things off, never really treating people as a threat. when the rock was feuding with cm punk, at least he put over his title reign and treated him as a threat. cena doesnt do that, he doesnt treat people as a threat.

Jericho is irrelevant? LOL The reason they put Jericho with Fandango was to get Fandango over....his debut was at 'Mania for crying out loud. Who better to put a new character making their in-ring debut at the biggest show of the year then a good hand that also is still relevant and also is over to a point where a loss like that doesn't do anything to tarnish his own credibility....which it hasn't.

jericho IS irrelevant and that is a fucking fact. he fucking lost to heath slater 2 years ago. when was the last time he was champion? oh yeah, 2008.. he is at christian's status right now. both are main event jobbers. how can u deny it? so many people have beaten jericho that it means absolutely NOTHING. jack swagger, curtis axel, wade barrett, and daniel bryan all beat chris jericho. imagine someone else in that position, like undertaker or triple h. imagine them in that position, would u still view them as the same? no because that is just too many losses.

Also your statement about main event jobbers is so flawed, you don't get to the main event by being a jobber...do you even know what the term jobber means?

do u know the difference between undertaker and christian? undertaker is a true main eventer. christian is not.

And Punk's had victories over top stars, Cena, Jericho. Hell if you remember the angle that led up to Punk winning the title in the first place, you'd realize that he was given a HUGE rub by not only going over Cena but by giving Punk a title run length of over a year in this day and age when titles are dropped nearly every month is a statement of it own.

beating jericho doesnt mean anything.. and none of his victories over john cena were clean. money in the bank - interference from john laurintiis and vince mcmahon, causing a distraction to john cena, causing john cena to let go of the STF, if john cena did not let go, in a kayfabe point of view, cm punk MIGHT have tapped out. summerslam - triple h didnt see cena's foot on the ropes. its not a proper finish. its the fucking equivalent of the montreal screwjob, its not a fair victory. and guess what? cm punk was a tweener back then, not a heel.. so tweeeners HAVE to be credible. even heels HAVE to be credible by getting clean victories, but for some reason wwe treats heels like shit.. (cm punk as a heel and edge as a heel).. and punk's title reign was not as good as u think it was. he was overshadowed by john cena for half of it. john cena unrightfully main evented over him and then when he finally started main eventing, he turned to chicken fucking pussy finishes, like cheating to beat ryback and cena. relying on the shield to fight the rock, and STILL lost. then he went on somewhat of a losing streak, losing to the rock, john cena, undertaker, and kane in a short span of time. losing 3 important matches (2 to rock, 1 to cena) does not make u a threat for the fucking STREAK. if u cant baet rock or cena, how can u beat undertaker??

The championship has been devalued for a long time now, since the Invasion really. Punk gave it some value again with his run. But Rock and Cena devalued it back again...the championship devaluing iis a subject for another thread, and has nothing to do with Punk or Cena

no.. the championship was brought back prestige by cm punk's heel turn. cm punk was bragging about it, he made it feel like it was worth something, to be champion for a long time.. yes i agree rock and cena devalued it. cena is still devaluing it right now with his henry feud. he is handing it to henry, like it isn othing?? ARE U FUCKING SERIOUS? LIKE WHAT ARE U FUCKING THINKING CENA? WHY WOULD U PASS THE BELT TO HENRY??? it fucking does have to do with cena, because cena devalued the belt. all he does is say his cheesy ass, stale fucking line, " THE CHAMP IS HERREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE".. like we didn't hear or see that 8 years ago, right?? fucking ******ed ass cena. u think it matters that u are a champion? u have been champ 14 times... it doesnt matter anymore, each title victory is worthless

You do realize that Punk was in the heel role and it was his job to come across like that in order to get the angle over right? And that WWE would not have booked him with 'Taker at 'Mania in the first place if they were not selling the point that this guy is not only a main eventer but is the future of the company. You don't also legitimately think for one second that 'Taker was going to lose at 'Mania do you?

WHAT? are u saying that heels SHOULD lose? are u saying that heels SHOULD be as UNCREDIBLE as possible?

ok first of all, i know that undertaker wouldnt lose. but u have to at least MAKE people believe that undertaker would lose, u have to make peole a threat. look at triple fucking h on the road to wrestlemania.. he was booked very carefully, same for shawn michaels, they looked like they were going to beat undertaker.. randy ortno and edge were both heels, but they were treated as they would defeat the undertaker.. just because undertaker is obviosuly going to win doesnt mean u have the right to treat his opponent like shit. cm punk losing 3 very important matches on the road to wrestlemania is NOT a good business decision

This is by far the dumbest thing yet from you, and trust me...reading your shit on here is laughable to think you have a fucking clue about wrestling, never mind CM Punk.

Punk is not going to be pumped to the gills, his frame is small and athletic without looking overdone. Christ, that in itself is a joke but when you said he has horible in ring skills you basically said "I'm a mark that thinks he knows what I'm talking about." Rewatch Punk vs Samoa Joe II in ROH, a legitimate 5-star (Meltzer rated) match and the entire feud pulled no less then 4-stars for each match. His ring work is one of the best in the company (Bryan, Jericho, Lesnar) He moves well, has a good skill set, has the right idea about ring psychology and what he does or doesn't do draws reactions.

Punk has a horrible physique.. and also have u been watching his matches lately?? he has been having a ton of ring rust and/or a lack of motivation.. he seems out of it lately, when he was facing alberto del rio and randy orton.. he was slower than usual. PLEASE fucking watch the matches before u insult me. are u blind? punk is pretty sloppy in the ring to be honest. he barely executes his diving elbow correctly and his running knee looks unlegit. also his gts barely hits people.

Please fucking give up, for a so-called Punk fan you really have no fucking clue about what you are trying to talk about. You compare fucking Darren Young who isn't over, who isn't main event quality to people like HHH and HBK. What? And then say in order for Punk to be over he needs to essentially be jacked up and "learn skills" that he already has in abundance.

What? how the fuck was i comparing darren young to hhh and hbk? do you have a fucking god damn reading comprehension problem? read it again.. are u fucking serious. do u have a fucking reading comprehension problem? i was saying that cm punk's match with darren young was sloppy.. i didnt say darren young was good, i didnt say anything about him besides that their match together was sloppy.. what the fuck is ur problem?

You haven't even seen the fucking feud pick up steam yet, all we've seen thus far is Lesnar's attack on Punk and the storyline promos surrounding Punk and Heyman......give it time here you so-called Punk fan.

dude.. i am not insulting the storyline of the feud. i am just really scared for cm punk and brock lesnar because i feel like its a win-lose situation. if punk wins, it will make lesnar look like shit for losing to a small dude like punk. if lesnar wins clean, it will make punk look like even more shit.. he has been losing to all the top stars lately, like undertaker, the rock, and john cena. ONE more loss to a top star would demote him..

Now, go back to school...

its fucking summer time..

and please watch more wrestling....

thats what i am doing on youtube right now.

it might help with your arguements next time

your the one who needs better arguments..

 

[MCMG]

Out of curiosity, how would you go about making CM Punk the number one guy? He was champ for 434 days and wrestled The Rock and The Undertaker in consecutive ppvs. What else would you do? Surely, you can't demote Cena because he does a lot of work for the company and is crazy over with the fans.

 

[CmPunker]

Out of curiosity, how would you go about making CM Punk the number one guy? He was champ for 434 days and wrestled The Rock and The Undertaker in consecutive ppvs. What else would you do? Surely, you can't demote Cena because he does a lot of work for the company and is crazy over with the fans.

what??? DID U NOT READ A FUCKING THING I POSTED??

i would make cm punk number one by sidelining john cna with an injury, in that time cm punk will become #1. when cena returns he will take a backseat, letting cm punk in all the main events. let creative put all their effort in to cm punk's storylines. SIMPLE AS FUCK.

his title reign of 434 fucking days was overshadowed by john cena, unrightfully.. cena main evented over him and was treated as if he were wayyyyyyy more improtant than cm punk.. there was a big gap between them at the time. and he WRESTLED the rock and undertaker? if he fucking beat the undertaker and the rock, it would be a whole different story. i would not be as pissed off as i am right now. it would be a different story.. but he fucking jobbed to the rock 2 ppvs in a row, not a single fucking win.. he lost to the undertaker, which isnt something to be ashamed of, but he fucking lost to john cena clean on raw.. so i am saying that one loss by itself is not too bad. but 4 important matches, 4 important fucking matches, and u lose all 4 of those fucking matches. think about it, fans are going to remember that forever, it will damage cm punk's legacy. casuals will think " cm punk cant beat top stars"..

what i fucking want is for cm punk to beat a top star CLEAN. beating cena doesnt matter because cena isnt a fucking legend.. he cant make people legends if hes not a legend himself. the rock, undertaker, hhh, and to an extent, lesnar are legends. but i fear that lesnar will squash punk, demoting him even more.. if punk defeats rock, undertaker, or hhh CLEAN it will put him to a entire new level, a level that only john cena could reach. he will become the #1 face of the company if he beats either 3 of these stars CLEAN. but the thing is, he feuded with them all and LOST to them all, with not e ven a SINGLE fucking victory over either of them. NOT one victory, what the fuck?????????? NOT ONE FUCKING VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cm punk has done too much jobbing lately, this is BULL FUCKING SHIT.

anyways, why the fuck do u act as if wrestling the rock and undertaker is like an honor? cm punk is above that level anyways. he is a main eventer, but not a legendary main eventer, like hhh. hhh was not the face of the company, but he was a very credible and legendary main eventer.. hhh defeated the likes of the rock, stone cold, and more. but since the wwe is lackign so much star power now, cm punk can only haev to beat 3 people, undertaker, hhh, OR the rock. brock lesnar would be a candidate, but i dont know if wwe can do it because lesnar doesnt have passion in the business. cm punk really really needs a win over a top star.. he fucking needs it. badly, he has been on the losing end against the rock and undertaker. how will that affect his legacy?? am i the only one here thinking in the fucking LONG TERM?

 

[MCMG]

Do you not think that instead of downgrading the very successful John Cena there could be a rivalry like Rock/Austin. There were effectively two top stars in the company. I just don't see the need to completely destroy John Cena as a WWE superstar. Whether you like it or not he is a legend of the company. He has been a major star for almost 8 years.

 

[CmPunker]

Do you not think that instead of downgrading the very successful John Cena there could be a rivalry like Rock/Austin. There were effectively two top stars in the company. I just don't see the need to completely destroy John Cena as a WWE superstar. Whether you like it or not he is a legend of the company. He has been a major star for almost 8 years.

which exactly proves my point. he has been on top for 8 years. having a NEW face of the company will be a breath of fresh air, thus increasing ratings. people are already sick of cena, evident by the boos.

and yeah, i would rather have a very good rivalry rather than demoting cena, but its just NOT possible. wwe creative isnt that good to produce a good feud. when is the last good feud? dont say cena/rock cuz that sucked ass. nothing new to add, just a randmoass rematch. lesnar/hhh was nothing new, just brawling pretty much and just trash talking. besides lesnar sucks on the mic. cm punk/rock was like the last good feud, but cm punk didnt win that feud.. how can u haev a steve austin/rock feud with one person getting all the wins? u need to have equal amount of wins..

the point is, creative isnt smart enough to produce a good rivalry. i lost all faith on creative team.

 

[Clutch]

cena sells tickets my fucking ass man.. i wonder why raw is not sold out every night even though he is wwe champion? lol, exactly. merchandise? cm punk surpassed him already, cm punk does press stuff too.. cm punk is more likable guy honestly, cena is not relatable to, he is super cena.

WWE is a family oriented product, kids still see Cena as a super hero and THAT is why he's the face of the company. He's Super Cena cause it's family friendly...that's determining why he is the face of the company. It's just smart business sense, much the same way Hogan was the face....in fact Cena and hogan are essentially the same types of characters...the super heros that families can feel safe letting their kids watch and get behind

Punk if anything is the face of the "sport" of pro wrestling to older, more informed fans. Ones that don't purely watch WWE and mark out, but ones that study the business and know what stardome takes.

no. i fucking blame john cena for not knowing how to put people over. all he does is smile and laugh things off, never really treating people as a threat. when the rock was feuding with cm punk, at least he put over his title reign and treated him as a threat. cena doesnt do that, he doesnt treat people as a threat.

Cena does his job as he's booked to do and how he is pushed. Yes, we older fans do not like his character much but that's what WWE wants...it has very little to do with Cena not trying to get Ryback over. In fact, he's tried....but you can escape bad booking or bad characterization

jericho IS irrelevant and that is a fucking fact. he fucking lost to heath slater 2 years ago. when was the last time he was champion? oh yeah, 2008.. he is at christian's status right now. both are main event jobbers. how can u deny it? so many people have beaten jericho that it means absolutely NOTHING. jack swagger, curtis axel, wade barrett, and daniel bryan all beat chris jericho. imagine someone else in that position, like undertaker or triple h. imagine them in that position, would u still view them as the same? no because that is just too many losses.

Christian's not main event, he's upper-mid-card at best...everyone knows this. but do you know what a jobber is...it's a guy that never wins at all....no one would be pushing jericho,Cristian or whoever else in the mid-card or where ever if all they did was lose....lol...please don't throw out terms like jobber when you clearly have no idea what that term means.


I'm going to put in bold the main point I'll highlight in this tl;dr rant

beating jericho doesnt mean anything.. and none of his victories over john cena were clean. money in the bank - interference from john laurintiis and vince mcmahon, causing a distraction to john cena, causing john cena to let go of the STF, if john cena did not let go, in a kayfabe point of view, cm punk MIGHT have tapped out. summerslam - triple h didnt see cena's foot on the ropes. its not a proper finish. its the fucking equivalent of the montreal screwjob, its not a fair victory.

Money in the Bank was SUPPOSED to be like Montreal....where the hell have you been? The storyline was Punk was walking out with the championship, so that was the WHOLE POINT behind the finish. Same thing for summerslam....the voice of the voiceless was "righting a wrong" in booking terms...simple as that....please pay actual attention

and punk's title reign was not as good as u think it was. he was overshadowed by john cena for half of it. john cena unrightfully main evented over him and then when he finally started main eventing, he turned to chicken fucking pussy finishes, like cheating to beat ryback and cena. relying on the shield to fight the rock, and STILL lost. then he went on somewhat of a losing streak, losing to the rock, john cena, undertaker, and kane in a short span of time. losing 3 important matches (2 to rock, 1 to cena) does not make u a threat for the fucking STREAK. if u cant baet rock or cena, how can u beat undertaker??

Do you know what a heel does? Really? Punk played the part of the chicken shit heel that screwed over people to retain quite well...that's the whole point of the chicken shit heel, to get across to the fans that the babyface was the better man but the coward used shortcuts and came away with the prize...Flair's whole career was built around the chicken shit heel. That's Booking 101.

Also you really think that a ready made feud in Rock/Cena was not going to main event 'Mania?

Dumb....real dumb

Rock and Cena were guaranteed to have a rematch simply cause the money and story were there, that's why Punk put Rock over for the title and why subsequently Rock put over Cena...money was there, the two biggest draws and faces of the company at verious points in their careers going at it one last time. Cena getting the rub from Rock.

no.. the championship was brought back prestige by cm punk's heel turn. cm punk was bragging about it, he made it feel like it was worth something, to be champion for a long time.. yes i agree rock and cena devalued it. cena is still devaluing it right now with his henry feud. he is handing it to henry, like it isn othing?? ARE U FUCKING SERIOUS? LIKE WHAT ARE U FUCKING THINKING CENA? WHY WOULD U PASS THE BELT TO HENRY??? it fucking does have to do with cena, because cena devalued the belt. all he does is say his cheesy ass, stale fucking line, " THE CHAMP IS HERREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE".. like we didn't hear or see that 8 years ago, right?? fucking ******ed ass cena. u think it matters that u are a champion? u have been champ 14 times... it doesnt matter anymore, each title victory is worthless

Clearly once again you have no idea what you are ranting about here and your anti-Cena bias is your only point in how the title is devalued....clearly you don't know what championship reigns were like in the past and therefore are just a mark commenting without anything factual to back up a claim, just a storyline that isn't doing anything to devalue the championship, rather to make henry a credible threat for the WWE title

WHAT? are u saying that heels SHOULD lose? are u saying that heels SHOULD be as UNCREDIBLE as possible?

ok first of all, i know that undertaker wouldnt lose. but u have to at least MAKE people believe that undertaker would lose, u have to make peole a threat. look at triple fucking h on the road to wrestlemania.. he was booked very carefully, same for shawn michaels, they looked like they were going to beat undertaker.. randy ortno and edge were both heels, but they were treated as they would defeat the undertaker.. just because undertaker is obviosuly going to win doesnt mean u have the right to treat his opponent like shit. cm punk losing 3 very important matches on the road to wrestlemania is NOT a good business decision

Refer back to the type of heel Punk's role was...the chicken shit heel. And in that role, yeah he could easily lose those matches without losing heat cause people knew, that the whole Punk/Heyman package would find something else for Punk to show what he was the "best in the world" Enter 'Taker.

What better way to show he hasn't lost his edge by taking on "Taker at his own game....mind games. The whole Paul Bearer passing situation while sad, also in storyline purposes could not have happened at a better time for Punk. as the chicken shit hell, the whole point was to get into 'Taker's head...and that was what the storyline did make it appear as. There was no way Puk was winning, which also allowed him to take the break after 'Mania and set up the face turn

Punk has a horrible physique.. and also have u been watching his matches lately?? he has been having a ton of ring rust and/or a lack of motivation.. he seems out of it lately, when he was facing alberto del rio and randy orton.. he was slower than usual. PLEASE fucking watch the matches before u insult me. are u blind? punk is pretty sloppy in the ring to be honest. he barely executes his diving elbow correctly and his running knee looks unlegit. also his gts barely hits people.



What? how the fuck was i comparing darren young to hhh and hbk? do you have a fucking god damn reading comprehension problem? read it again.. are u fucking serious. do u have a fucking reading comprehension problem? i was saying that cm punk's match with darren young was sloppy.. i didnt say darren young was good, i didnt say anything about him besides that their match together was sloppy.. what the fuck is ur problem?

First off all, have you not paid attention to his move set....most of his strikes if hit stiffer can cause injuries and concussions. Hell the corner Shining Wizard (running high knee *sigh* Fucking WWE) looks completely devistating as it is, but if hit stiffer would be a problem. Same for the GTS knee strike. both can cause concussions or head trauma if hit stiffer....WWE nowadays is going to protect talent from that as best as they can. Why else were Bryan and Orton fined after the no-DQ match on RAW because of chair shots to the head? Also why else woukld the double turn of Ziggler and Del Rio be as successful without playing up the strikes Del Rio unleashed to Ziggler's head as being unfairly brutal....cause they caused a concussion.

Punk is stiff but safe with what he does. Cole needs to stop saying that the GTS catches so and so in the chest or whatever, but Punks' also not going to be stiffer with it cause that will cause injuries, guaranteed. Punk wants to look legit but not legit injure.

dude.. i am not insulting the storyline of the feud. i am just really scared for cm punk and brock lesnar because i feel like its a win-lose situation. if punk wins, it will make lesnar look like shit for losing to a small dude like punk. if lesnar wins clean, it will make punk look like even more shit.. he has been losing to all the top stars lately, like undertaker, the rock, and john cena. ONE more loss to a top star would demote him..
its fucking summer time.. thats what i am doing on youtube right now. your the one who needs better arguments..

Lesnar losing to Punk will not wreck Lesnar, Lesnar is not full-time talent and can take months off, come back and people will be afraid that the monster is back.

If Punk loses, then it may de-rail a title run for a while, but you got a feud here, with the Heyman story angle that can play out over months, leading to Survivor Series with a gimmck match like HIAC to blow the feud off.

Punk wouldn't lose credibility if that were to happen either as 100% he would go over in the blow-off match and benefit from the build up and storyline into the next angle

 

[Desyar]

age maens nothing if u are not talented at all.. u need to have the talent to back it up, otherwise it means nothing. curtis axel is a spoiled brat.. cm punk earned his position and he is a legitimate draw.. curtis axel never pinned triple h. he had some really fluke victories. 1st time was because triple h suffered a concussion from triple h, 2nd time was some controversial because vince mcmahon interfered.

dancing will get u nowhere except comedy.

look at ted dibase and cody rhodes. where are they now? once again, u neeed to have the talent to back up your relations.. otherwise just make u a spoiled brat

but when you look at punk it doewsnt scream "superstar" he looks like a homeless man. i think fandango and curtis will surpass punk in a year cus theyre so much younger and more good looking than punk. punk shud lay down for them so they can be legend status like hhh, taker, austin

punk is old and ugly and they already given him so much but he just cant get over cus he doesnt have "it" so he just should just lay down and put over curtis and fandango for wwe's futuree and dats whats best for business

 

[CmPunker]

WWE is a family oriented product, kids still see Cena as a super hero and THAT is why he's the face of the company. He's Super Cena cause it's family friendly...that's determining why he is the face of the company. It's just smart business sense, much the same way Hogan was the face....in fact Cena and hogan are essentially the same types of characters...the super heros that families can feel safe letting their kids watch and get behind

Family friendly will not get fucking ratings. however, the AE was not family f riendly and got massive fucking ratings.. super cena is fucking trash, he is preventing other people from shining.. hes not good in the LONG TERM.
Punk if anything is the face of the "sport" of pro wrestling to older, more informed fans. Ones that don't purely watch WWE and mark out, but ones that study the business and know what stardome takes.

Cena does his job as he's booked to do and how he is pushed. Yes, we older fans do not like his character much but that's what WWE wants...it has very little to do with Cena not trying to get Ryback over. In fact, he's tried....but you can escape bad booking or bad characterization

cena COULD have put over ryback using his backstage power, but he didnt, did he? like it or not, ryback was fed to john cena and john cena just let it happen. selfish..

Christian's not main event, he's upper-mid-card at best...everyone knows this. but do you know what a jobber is...it's a guy that never wins at all....no one would be pushing jericho,Cristian or whoever else in the mid-card or where ever if all they did was lose....lol...please don't throw out terms like jobber when you clearly have no idea what that term means.

a jobber is a person who loses 50% of his matches, which is chris jericho.. i do know what it means

I'm going to put in bold the main point I'll highlight in this tl;dr rant



Money in the Bank was SUPPOSED to be like Montreal....where the hell have you been? The storyline was Punk was walking out with the championship, so that was the WHOLE POINT behind the finish. Same thing for summerslam....the voice of the voiceless was "righting a wrong" in booking terms...simple as that....please pay actual attention

What? i dont get what u are trying to fucking say.. the storyline was cmp unk walking out with the championship.. how the fuck would a dirty win solidify that? how the fuck does a dirty win buiild that up? it doesnt.. and summerslam, it was just a traditional storyline about getting the championship.. why the fuck would a dirty win help it? a clean win would establish cm punk better.. but no cm punk cant get any clean wins over cena, cuz cena is selfish, right??????

Do you know what a heel does? Really? Punk played the part of the chicken shit heel that screwed over people to retain quite well...that's the whole point of the chicken shit heel, to get across to the fans that the babyface was the better man but the coward used shortcuts and came away with the prize...Flair's whole career was built around the chicken shit heel. That's Booking 101.

this, this is the fucking reason why heels are horrible today. nobody believes they are a legitimate threat because of their stupid fucking booking.. heels SHOULD be unstoppable, which makes babyfaces as underdogs. as a result, we want babyfaces to win, even though we know they may not. but we are still rooting for them. the babyfaces are vulnerable and we feel sympathy for them, thus getting them over.

now THIS, this right here is booking 101. not ur way. not wwe creative way, MY way is better.. fucking pisses me off.

Also you really think that a ready made feud in Rock/Cena was not going to main event 'Mania?

No, but i was really pissed off about a part timer and a spoiled brat main eventing

Dumb....real dumb

thinking about the future is dumb?

Rock and Cena were guaranteed to have a rematch simply cause the money and story were there, that's why Punk put Rock over for the title and why subsequently Rock put over Cena...money was there, the two biggest draws and faces of the company at verious points in their careers going at it one last time. Cena getting the rub from Rock.

where is the long term value? cena already reached his peak, he isnt getting any more over. why dont u let rock put over someone like cm punk, who is the future of this company and still hasnt peaked? why couldnt wwe do that? are they really that naiev and blind?

Clearly once again you have no idea what you are ranting about here and your anti-Cena bias is your only point in how the title is devalued....clearly you don't know what championship reigns were like in the past and therefore are just a mark commenting without anything factual to back up a claim, just a storyline that isn't doing anything to devalue the championship, rather to make henry a credible threat for the WWE title

First of all, cena won the champinoship so many times that his victories dont mean jack shit. does he promote the fuck out of the championship, like how hard he worked to earn it? no he didnt, but punk did that.. cena doesnt even feel honored to hold the championship.. how the fuck did he give it prestige? HE DIDNT.

Refer back to the type of heel Punk's role was...the chicken shit heel. And in that role, yeah he could easily lose those matches without losing heat cause people knew, that the whole Punk/Heyman package would find something else for Punk to show what he was the "best in the world" Enter 'Taker.

chickenshit heel is tolerable, as long as he wins most of the matches.. if he loses the matches, people dont lust for him to lose anymore, because they already seen him lose.. which is why chickenshit heels dnot work. becasue once u lose, people lost interest.. and cm punk lost way too many times, which is why the undertaker vs punk feud sucked. if paul buarer hadnt died, what do u think the feud would be like? it would be awful, because wwe creative needed a man to die to make a decent feud.

What better way to show he hasn't lost his edge by taking on "Taker at his own game....mind games. The whole Paul Bearer passing situation while sad, also in storyline purposes could not have happened at a better time for Punk. as the chicken shit hell, the whole point was to get into 'Taker's head...and that was what the storyline did make it appear as. There was no way Puk was winning, which also allowed him to take the break after 'Mania and set up the face turn

what do you think would be better. cm punk having storyline mind games, or cm punk getting HUGE wins against the rock and john cena.. everybody knows kayfabe is fucking dead, so the storyline mind games do not represent faith.. however, if cm punk beat the rock and cena, it would demonstrate great faith from the wwe.. so it is actually better for both kayfabe and non-kayfabe point of view..

First off all, have you not paid attention to his move set....most of his strikes if hit stiffer can cause injuries and concussions. Hell the corner Shining Wizard (running high knee *sigh* Fucking WWE) looks completely devistating as it is, but if hit stiffer would be a problem. Same for the GTS knee strike. both can cause concussions or head trauma if hit stiffer....WWE nowadays is going to protect talent from that as best as they can. Why else were Bryan and Orton fined after the no-DQ match on RAW because of chair shots to the head? Also why else woukld the double turn of Ziggler and Del Rio be as successful without playing up the strikes Del Rio unleashed to Ziggler's head as being unfairly brutal....cause they caused a concussion.

well if cm punk is holding back, then i dont want him to.. concussions are so fucking exagerated that its not funny.. remember when randy orton had a concussion in smackdown and he still wrestled? he did just fine.. even my friend has a concussion right now and hes still playing football. concussions are SOO exagerated its not even fucking funny.

Punk is stiff but safe with what he does. Cole needs to stop saying that the GTS catches so and so in the chest or whatever, but Punks' also not going to be stiffer with it cause that will cause injuries, guaranteed. Punk wants to look legit but not legit injure.

punk is safe, but he is sloppy and doesnt know how to execute moves

Lesnar losing to Punk will not wreck Lesnar, Lesnar is not full-time talent and can take months off, come back and people will be afraid that the monster is back.

it will because lesnar is built like a monster, he is a fucking UFC fighter.. he is one of the most credible people on the roster behind undertaker and triple h. cm punk is skinny as fuck and he has bad in ring skills.. of course it would hurt lesnar's legacy if punk won clean.

If Punk loses, then it may de-rail a title run for a while, but you got a feud here, with the Heyman story angle that can play out over months, leading to Survivor Series with a gimmck match like HIAC to blow the feud off.

if punk loses, it would demote him to upper-mid card status.. he already lost too much today. losing to the rock, undertaker, lesnar. guess what, im going to speak in a casual fan's point of view. a casual fan doesnt care who the person feuds with, a casual fan cares who he DEFEATS. and cmp unk didnt even beat the rock, hhh, or undertaker, not even one time. NOT EVEN ONE FUCKING TIME! im speaking in a casual point of view anyways. and in a wwe creative point of view, it demonstrates a lack of faith on cm punk.. if cm punk cant be trusted with just ONE ONE ONE fucking victory, seriously man?

Punk wouldn't lose credibility if that were to happen either as 100% he would go over in the blow-off match and benefit from the build up and storyline into the next angle

he would lose credibility because he lost to too many top stars. that portrays a really really dangerous message : "cm punk can't handle the big boys".. cm punk beat everybody except triple h, undertaker, cena, and the rock.. that is such fucking bullshit. not even one win over a top star..

 

[CmPunker]

but when you look at punk it doewsnt scream "superstar" he looks like a homeless man. i think fandango and curtis will surpass punk in a year cus theyre so much younger and more good looking than punk. punk shud lay down for them so they can be legend status like hhh, taker, austin

punk is old and ugly and they already given him so much but he just cant get over cus he doesnt have "it" so he just should just lay down and put over curtis and fandango for wwe's futuree and dats whats best for business

he does scream superstar because his charisma and mic skils back it up..

fandango and curtis have no fucking charisma and dont have the character to back it up. fandango is a comedy character at best. curtis is upper mid carder at best.. i just CANT see them going too far..

do u even know what the it factor is.. its the ability to connect with the audience. u cant really explain it. its just a magnetic aura that allows u to connect with the crowd.. cm punk has it, randy orton has it, brock lesnar has it.

 

[Desyar]

he does scream superstar because his charisma and mic skils back it up..

fandango and curtis have no fucking charisma and dont have the character to back it up. fandango is a comedy character at best. curtis is upper mid carder at best.. i just CANT see them going too far..

do u even know what the it factor is.. its the ability to connect with the audience. u cant really explain it. its just a magnetic aura that allows u to connect with the crowd.. cm punk has it, randy orton has it, brock lesnar has it.

but liek i said punk is old and ugly and they already dropped da ball with him. his mic skills are mediocre at best and hes sloppy in da the ring and i want fandango and curtis to be legend status liek hhh n taker cus dats wats best for business

huehue

 

[CmPunker]

but liek i said punk is old and ugly and they already dropped da ball with him. his mic skills are mediocre at best and hes sloppy in da the ring and i want fandango and curtis to be legend status liek hhh n taker cus dats wats best for business

huehue

seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? are you like 9 years old? cmp unk is not old, he is only 34 years old.. age doesnt mean shit if u cant haev talent to back it up.. and they arent dropping the ball on him just yet, they are just holding back on him. compare his promos to curtis axel and fandango. then tell me whos is better... what/ elevating fandango and curtis axel to legend status is good for business?? lmfao the crowd still wont give 2 shits about them because they are just so fucking bad.

 

[Desyar]

seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? are you like 9 years old? cmp unk is not old, he is only 34 years old.. age doesnt mean shit if u cant haev talent to back it up.. and they arent dropping the ball on him just yet, they are just holding back on him. compare his promos to curtis axel and fandango. then tell me whos is better... what/ elevating fandango and curtis axel to legend status is good for business?? lmfao the crowd still wont give 2 shits about them because they are just so fucking bad.

i kno wat im talking about its called being smart punk is 34 he is old same age as my uncle. an curtis is 1 year younger than punk which is a big difference and fandango 3 yrs younger which is a very very big diffewence n they r not ugly and old as punk so they shud be legend status like hhh n taker, the rock

huee

 

[CmPunker]

i kno wat im talking about its called being smart punk is 34 he is old same age as my uncle. an curtis is 1 year younger than punk which is a big difference and fandango 3 yrs younger which is a very very big diffewence n they r not ugly and old as punk so they shud be legend status like hhh n taker, the rock

huee

are u really repeating the same thing? age doesnt mean shit if u dont have the talent to back it fucking up man.. and ugly doesnt mean shit.. its all about physique, who the fuck cares if they are ugly or pretty orn ot

 

[Desyar]

are u really repeating the same thing? age doesnt mean shit if u dont have the talent to back it fucking up man.. and ugly doesnt mean shit.. its all about physique, who the fuck cares if they are ugly or pretty orn ot

but punk has no talent, u said it urself in another thread that he's slow and sloppy in the ring. and hes old and ugly so hes really got nothing going for him so he shud lay down and lose a couple of ppv matches to fandango and curtis so they can be legend status like hhh, austin, taker cus dats wat i want and wats best for business #yolo

 

[CmPunker]

but punk has no talent, u said it urself in another thread that he's slow and sloppy in the ring. and hes old and ugly so hes really got nothing going for him so he shud lay down and lose a couple of ppv matches to fandango and curtis so they can be legend status like hhh, austin, taker cus dats wat i want and wats best for business #yolo

are u fucking serious man? cm punk may have a bad look and bad in ring skills, but he has the charisma, the passion, and the mic skills to redeem himself. and plz learn to spell, for gods sake.

 

[Desyar]

are u fucking serious man? cm punk may have a bad look and bad in ring skills, but he has the charisma, the passion, and the mic skills to redeem himself. and plz learn to spell, for gods sake.

y da hostility, friend? i just want curtis n fandango to be legend status like hhh, taker like u want punk to be legen status. and punk has no charisma, passion, mic skills. he is boring, old and ugly i believe he would be put to good use by feeding him to the younger guys. cus dats whats best for business. and i kno business cus im all business

 

[CmPunker]

y da hostility, friend? i just want curtis n fandango to be legend status like hhh, taker like u want punk to be legen status. and punk has no charisma, passion, mic skills. he is boring, old and ugly i believe he would be put to good use by feeding him to the younger guys. cus dats whats best for business. and i kno business cus im all business

do u even know how to fucking read lol? i am providing facts to base my arguments and u are just making arndom shit up. do u have any videos to show that fandango and curtis axel are talented? any good prooms, good matches, good connections with audeicen, anything that makes them stand out? no u dont, so shut ur mouth up.. age doesnt mean shit if u cant back it up with talent.

 

[Desyar]

are u fucking serious man? cm punk may have a bad look and bad in ring skills, but he has the charisma, the passion, and the mic skills to redeem himself. and plz learn to spell, for gods sake.

do u even know how to fucking read lol? i am providing facts to base my arguments and u are just making arndom shit up. do u have any videos to show that fandango and curtis axel are talented? any good prooms, good matches, good connections with audeicen, anything that makes them stand out? no u dont, so shut ur mouth up.. age doesnt mean shit if u cant back it up with talent.

HAHA!

yes i got proof cus curtis is the new paul heyman guy and dats enough proof dat hes talented and dat he replaced punk's place cus they lost hope in him. an cus hes old and ugly an sloppy in the ring. i think curtis and fandago deserve to be legend status like taker n austin cus it would be smart for business. do u not care about da business?

 

[CmPunker]

HAHA!

yes i got proof cus curtis is the new paul heyman guy and dats enough proof dat hes talented and dat he replaced punk's place cus they lost hope in him. an cus hes old and ugly an sloppy in the ring. i think curtis and fandago deserve to be legend status like taker n austin cus it would be smart for business. do u not care about da business?

do u have anything to prove that curtis axel is a draw? so what if he has backstage support, that means hes good at kissing ass. thats all, doesnt mean hes a good draw anyways. anything to prove that curtis and fandango are top draws? anything? not even a good promo, good segment, good match?

 

[Clutch]

Family friendly will not get fucking ratings. however, the AE was not family f riendly and got massive fucking ratings.. super cena is fucking trash, he is preventing other people from shining.. hes not good in the LONG TERM.
Punk if anything is the face of the "sport" of pro wrestling to older, more informed fans. Ones that don't purely watch WWE and mark out, but ones that study the business and know what stardome takes.

This is why you are not a booker in the WWE, nor are you a businessman. Educated fans make up a small percentage of wrestling attendances not to mention merchandise sales.

You really want to cut out 70 to 80% of total gate revenue not to mention sponsorships and total merchandise revenue? Go for it, then rebrand yourself ECW and watch your rating plummet and your company to go bankrupt

Learn the fucking business you mark. Case in point:

a jobber is a person who loses 50% of his matches, which is chris jericho.. i do know what it means

No a jobber is someone that loses matches ALL the time, not 50% of the time, ALL the time.

What? i dont get what u are trying to fucking say.. the storyline was cmp unk walking out with the championship.. how the fuck would a dirty win solidify that? how the fuck does a dirty win buiild that up? it doesnt.. and summerslam, it was just a traditional storyline about getting the championship.. why the fuck would a dirty win help it? a clean win would establish cm punk better.. but no cm punk cant get any clean wins over cena, cuz cena is selfish, right??????

The whole fucking angle leading up to the title change was Punk walking out with the strap, which was the fear in reality for Montreal way back when. It was NOT dirty, it was the fucking story...please fucking watch the montreal footage, listen to the real fucking stories THEN rewatch that MITB match.....holy fucking god you are terrible at jumping to conclusions with facts either skewed or omitted in order to get some kind of weird ass point across

this, this is the fucking reason why heels are horrible today. nobody believes they are a legitimate threat because of their stupid fucking booking.. heels SHOULD be unstoppable, which makes babyfaces as underdogs. as a result, we want babyfaces to win, even though we know they may not. but we are still rooting for them. the babyfaces are vulnerable and we feel sympathy for them, thus getting them over.

now THIS, this right here is booking 101. not ur way. not wwe creative way, MY way is better.. fucking pisses me off.

You really have no idea how to book well do you? Every fucking heel can't be unstoppable, how in the hell would any babyface generate any sympathy? The scenario you are talking about is like the NWO during it's prime or the first incarnation of the MEM in TNA. Heels that are unstoppable, that have babyfaces stoop to heelish depths in order to get any credibility.

Monster heels are supposed to be Monster that the hero eventually puts down....that's why they are effective. The chicken shit heel is effective to get over the fact the babyface chasing is the superior athlete cause of the dirty tricks used....come on man....please fucking learn some goddamn basics.

chickenshit heel is tolerable, as long as he wins most of the matches.. if he loses the matches, people dont lust for him to lose anymore, because they already seen him lose.. which is why chickenshit heels dnot work. becasue once u lose, people lost interest.. and cm punk lost way too many times, which is why the undertaker vs punk feud sucked. if paul buarer hadnt died, what do u think the feud would be like? it would be awful, because wwe creative needed a man to die to make a decent feud.

Tell that to Ric Flair that won the world title 16 times and lost it 16 times by putting over people and getting himself over by playing that type of heel. Tell that to HHH who also used the same type of character base for his heel persona. A chicken shit is not a complete coward, just backs down when the babyface gets on fire as it were.

If Paul Bearer didn't pass away, we will never know what Punk/Taker and creative would come up with. Could've been better, could've been worse...doesn't change the fact Punk was given the push to work with Taker at 'Mania. If any two people would have a second thought about a main event caliber match like that it would be Vince AND Taker himself, who WANTED to work with Punk at 'Mania.....that alone should get you to finally shut the fuck up about Punk not being main event worthy.

well if cm punk is holding back, then i dont want him to.. concussions are so fucking exagerated that its not funny.. remember when randy orton had a concussion in smackdown and he still wrestled? he did just fine.. even my friend has a concussion right now and hes still playing football. concussions are SOO exagerated its not even fucking funny.


punk is safe, but he is sloppy and doesnt know how to execute moves

Concussions are NOT overratted....look at how many football players have committed suicide over the last few years. You need a wrestling example, CHRIS BENOIT had numerous concussions over his career that contributed, not outright cause,but contributed to what he did to his wife, son and then himself.

WWE is being safer cause legitimately, the press exposure to the Benoit fiasco and all the factors involved forced them to take measures to protect not only the performers but the business.

Seriously, if you can't use one actual piece of logic, go and mark out at a show and leave the talk to those of us that actually PAY ATTENTION to everything involved with wrestling.....this statement alone is making you into one of the biggest idiots I've seen yet on a board

I'm a member of WO/F4W...I've seen that board...I've got exposure to idiots

it will because lesnar is built like a monster, he is a fucking UFC fighter.. he is one of the most credible people on the roster behind undertaker and triple h. cm punk is skinny as fuck and he has bad in ring skills.. of course it would hurt lesnar's legacy if punk won clean.

if punk loses, it would demote him to upper-mid card status.. he already lost too much today. losing to the rock, undertaker, lesnar. guess what, im going to speak in a casual fan's point of view. a casual fan doesnt care who the person feuds with, a casual fan cares who he DEFEATS. and cmp unk didnt even beat the rock, hhh, or undertaker, not even one time. NOT EVEN ONE FUCKING TIME! im speaking in a casual point of view anyways. and in a wwe creative point of view, it demonstrates a lack of faith on cm punk.. if cm punk cant be trusted with just ONE ONE ONE fucking victory, seriously man?

he would lose credibility because he lost to too many top stars. that portrays a really really dangerous message : "cm punk can't handle the big boys".. cm punk beat everybody except triple h, undertaker, cena, and the rock.. that is such fucking bullshit. not even one win over a top star..

Lesnar is a former UFC fighter...that also started off in WWE well before the UFC involvment. If anyone knows what good business is, it's him/

Lesnar can lose a match here and there as he's not full-time, has that legit background to fall back on to bolster future feuds and most importantly, KNOWS that in this business, he's not going to be booked to win all the time. Hell his first match back, Cena beat him clean, HHH beat him clean....Lesnar has on;y one win since returning to the WWE and people still mark out for him....great, that means he's being successful in his role and is doing the right things.

Punk going over him will not push Punk to the top of the card, he's already there. Nor will it guarantee that he won't be underused or used poorly in the future, however what it will do will add a facet to BOTH men's careers and Punk's going over will make him, in WWE's business idea...hopefully much more of a draw to the average, less educated fan.

It will not kill Lesnar, it will not kill Punk, or heyman.....so far this angle is being done decently (I personally would have perferred having Punk not wrestle someone that has zero recognition in order to move the story along but hey). When Lesnar comes back, which is soon....then we'll see how this angle really shoots off

But i gotta say, for a Punk fan...you like tearing into your guy a bit much and aren't as educated about the business to do it.

 

[CmPunker]

This is why you are not a booker in the WWE, nor are you a businessman. Educated fans make up a small percentage of wrestling attendances not to mention merchandise sales.

i know the fucking business.. i know that during the attitude era, the ratings were 6.0 and higher, and guess what? most of the fans were older fans, not kids.. and right NOW, there are more older fans than kids, its evident in the fucking audience, just watch the fucking show and u will fuckng see it.. so why wwe caters to kids instead of the 70% of older kids, idk man.

You really want to cut out 70 to 80% of total gate revenue not to mention sponsorships and total merchandise revenue? Go for it, then rebrand yourself ECW and watch your rating plummet and your company to go bankrupt

well if i had a fucking company then i would do a lot better than wwe is currently.. its called common sense, something that the wwe creative doesnt have.

Learn the fucking business you mark. Case in point:




No a jobber is someone that loses matches ALL the time, not 50% of the time, ALL the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_(professional_wrestling)

it clearly states a jobber is a person who loses routinely.. and routinely means regularly. and 50% is regularly.. common sense and research, kid.

The whole fucking angle leading up to the title change was Punk walking out with the strap, which was the fear in reality for Montreal way back when. It was NOT dirty, it was the fucking story...please fucking watch the montreal footage, listen to the real fucking stories THEN rewatch that MITB match.....holy fucking god you are terrible at jumping to conclusions with facts either skewed or omitted in order to get some kind of weird ass point across

it WAS dirty. if it wasnt claen, its fucking dirty.. they contradict each other, simple as fuck man. u can defend wwe writers all u want for protecting cena so much.. but the truth is that they dont want punk to beat cena clean at all because they love to frecn hkiss him so much.. do not deny it, they cant keep on using these storylien excuses to not give punk a clean win. think about it for a second, punk didnt even get ONE clean win against cena.. so basically, punk is the #2 face of the company, yet he cant get a clean win against a top star? wow.. really amazing.

You really have no idea how to book well do you? Every fucking heel can't be unstoppable, how in the hell would any babyface generate any sympathy? The scenario you are talking about is like the NWO during it's prime or the first incarnation of the MEM in TNA. Heels that are unstoppable, that have babyfaces stoop to heelish depths in order to get any credibility.

so every fucking heel has to be a pussy? is that what youre saying? i know people like daniel bryan should be pussy heels, but anyone like sheamus, who has a impressive physique, and batista, shoudl ALWAYS be unstoppable. it doesnt fit their fucking physique if they are acting like *****es.. U KNOW HOW THE FUCK THEY GENERATE SYMPATHY? THIS IS A BETTER WAY, U BUILD UP MONSTER HEELS, U MAKE THEM DOMINATE THE FACES, AND THEN PEOPLE WILL THINK THE FACES ARE UNDERDOGS

Monster heels are supposed to be Monster that the hero eventually puts down....that's why they are effective. The chicken shit heel is effective to get over the fact the babyface chasing is the superior athlete cause of the dirty tricks used....come on man....please fucking learn some goddamn basics.

monster heels are the heels that are supposed to garner ratings.. if the babyface beats him every single fucking time, how will that affect the storyline? it would make ratings plummet and destroy the character.

Tell that to Ric Flair that won the world title 16 times and lost it 16 times by putting over people and getting himself over by playing that type of heel. Tell that to HHH who also used the same type of character base for his heel persona. A chicken shit is not a complete coward, just backs down when the babyface gets on fire as it were.

yeah, and look how far ric flair went in wwe.. he didnt win a single title ever again. and btw, hhh was not a chickenshit heel, he was a fucking dominant heel. he won so many matches clean, against randy orton, hbk, kane, etc.. hhh was a powerful heel, but why cant wwe book cm punk like that?

If Paul Bearer didn't pass away, we will never know what Punk/Taker and creative would come up with. Could've been better, could've been worse...doesn't change the fact Punk was given the push to work with Taker at 'Mania. If any two people would have a second thought about a main event caliber match like that it would be Vince AND Taker himself, who WANTED to work with Punk at 'Mania.....that alone should get you to finally shut the fuck up about Punk not being main event worthy.

if paul bearer didnt pass away, we wouldve had a worse storyline. tihnk about it, a man had to DIE to get a good storyline.. punk was not given a push at all. he jobbed to the rock and undertaker. if u think just FEUDING is called a "push", its not. merely feuding with a top star doesnt do anything. the only reason cm punk faced undertaker was because lesnar was occupied with hhh, cena occuped with the rock, and for buyrate purposes.. it doesnt demonstrate faith at all.

Concussions are NOT overratted....look at how many football players have committed suicide over the last few years. You need a wrestling example, CHRIS BENOIT had numerous concussions over his career that contributed, not outright cause,but contributed to what he did to his wife, son and then himself.

first of all, football and wrestling are completely different.. yeah, so ONE wwe wrestler has tooken a shitload of fucking family pro blems, and u blame it on concussions? makes sense..

WWE is being safer cause legitimately, the press exposure to the Benoit fiasco and all the factors involved forced them to take measures to protect not only the performers but the business.

how many people repeated the beniot suicide crisis? nobody.. so its time to stop being safe, and TAKE RISKS. thats how u succeed in life, u have to take risks.. thats how u make new stars, thats how u get buyrates, thats how u get ratings, etc.. its simple as fuck, u need to try NEW things instead of doing the same old shit (john cna overcoming odds)

Seriously, if you can't use one actual piece of logic, go and mark out at a show and leave the talk to those of us that actually PAY ATTENTION to everything involved with wrestling.....this statement alone is making you into one of the biggest idiots I've seen yet on a board

biggest idiot? so speaking logically is called being an idiot.. from a casual point of view, why should cm punk be taken seriously against undertaker? he lost to the rock twice and john cena once, if u cant beat rock or cena, how can u beat undertaker?

I'm a member of WO/F4W...I've seen that board...I've got exposure to idiots

what the fuck does this have to do with anything?

Lesnar is a former UFC fighter...that also started off in WWE well before the UFC involvment. If anyone knows what good business is, it's him/

never knew lesnar was a businessman, lol.. ufc fighter isnt a business man.

Lesnar can lose a match here and there as he's not full-time, has that legit background to fall back on to bolster future feuds and most importantly, KNOWS that in this business, he's not going to be booked to win all the time. Hell his first match back, Cena beat him clean, HHH beat him clean....Lesnar has on;y one win since returning to the WWE and people still mark out for him....great, that means he's being successful in his role and is doing the right things.

lesnar can lose a match, but he cant lose to a guy with cm punk's physique.. its just no way to keep credibilikty if they go down the route.. think about it. cena beat him clean because of his physique, hhh also has a good physique, look at cm punk now. look at his physique.

Punk going over him will not push Punk to the top of the card, he's already there. Nor will it guarantee that he won't be underused or used poorly in the future, however what it will do will add a facet to BOTH men's careers and Punk's going over will make him, in WWE's business idea...hopefully much more of a draw to the average, less educated fan.

hes not already there.. cena is still the face of the company. cm punk defeating a top star CLEAN will elevate him to a whole new level, like it or not.. he will be closer to the #1 spot than he will ever be, and i think its because wwe doesnt want anyone to surpass their golden boy, john cena.. so they dont give punk clean wins over top stars, because they are scared he will surpass cena.

It will not kill Lesnar, it will not kill Punk, or heyman.....so far this angle is being done decently (I personally would have perferred having Punk not wrestle someone that has zero recognition in order to move the story along but hey). When Lesnar comes back, which is soon....then we'll see how this angle really shoots off

it will kill at least one of them.. just think about it.. lesnar is 300 pounds, punk is 220 pounds.. if punk beats lesnar CLEAN, then it will make lesnar look like shit.. punk lost too much this year, if he loses clean AGAIN to another top star, it will send a bad message to the casuals. that message is : cm punk is good, but he cannot hang in with the top stars.

But i gotta say, for a Punk fan...you like tearing into your guy a bit much and aren't as educated about the business to do it.

for a punk fan, i can admit his flaws. i know cm punk has a horrible physique and horrible in ring skills, but his charisma and mic skills and his drawing ability overshadow and overbalance it.. so yes, i do know about the business, do you?

 

[Mac Attack]

I'm not replying to the above drama however I will attempt at making a grammatically correct and coherent post about CM Punk's face turn.

Quite frankly I am not enjoying his face turn. I think it has potential however I just haven't been as interested in his current role as I have been in the past with him. I think it's partially because I don't particularly enjoy his Heyman segments as of late as I feel it's kind of predictable and not quite as intriguing as when he was a heel. I feel though that when lesnar enters the fray it'll be more interesting but right now I'm partially down on it just because it's a bit too storyline for me and not as much action.

 

[mwat9050]

Depends on how they handle/book it. He hasn't gone in full pandering mode yet, so it's been bearable. His last face run got really stale, really quick. It appeared as if he was basically cutting promos w/ the garbage the mindless writers gave him. Hopefully they keep him w/ an edge as a "tweener". I just hate how WWE feels the need to have every babyface wear the white hat these days.