The Dragon Saga
Whale in a Teardrop
Different Kenta, the one your referring to is stylized as KENTA.
7th Annual WrestleZone Tournament Bracket Unveiling LD
- Thread starter klunderbunker
- Start date
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
Who would actually vote for Owen over Jeff? If your just picking favorites, then sure, by all means. Owen is nowhere near as significant to wrestling as Hardy was/is, though, so I don't get Haiku doing it.
I could easily argue Jeff's "significance" in wrestling is one that actually hurt wrestling (and wrestlers) more so than he did good.
Look at the trio of teams that took part in those ladder matches; of them, Edge is retired with injuries, Christian probably isn't too far behind, Matt's beyond fucked, Jeff has his own personal demons. It seems the only people that got out of those significant ladder matches normal are the Dudleys, best known as the team that didn't take stupid bumps.
There's a lesson in that. Oh, and the average age of the Hardyz and E&C?
37 3/4 years old
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
So Owen over Jeff because Jeff took a lot of stupid bumps? Owen took the stupidest bump of all time.
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
Not really that much of a joke. You're arguing that Jeff did more bad than good because he took a lot of ******ed bumps and thus developed a drug problem. Tell me, how many people do you think actually know about Jeff's drug issues? Now how many people know about Owen being the only WWE Superstar to die in the ring? Which do you think was more damaging to the WWE's reputation?
You and I seem to view/judge wrestling in the same way. Using our criteria, Jeff is clearly a better professional wrestler than Owen was. You just seem to have a personal problem with Jeff and would rather not be objective about this match up.
Also, my joke was much better than yours.
You and I seem to view/judge wrestling in the same way. Using our criteria, Jeff is clearly a better professional wrestler than Owen was. You just seem to have a personal problem with Jeff and would rather not be objective about this match up.
Also, my joke was much better than yours.
So you're comparing an accident that happened to a guy who makes personal choices?
Ok. Just, ok.
Also, I'm pretty sure every time Jeff violated the wellness policy, something came out.
I really do wonder by what measurement we're saying Jeff's better. As a draw? He was always the Smackdown champion... As a matter of fact, I remember him chasing the main title, once in 2008. He was never exactly a top draw, and even on Smackdown, he was over, but I wouldn't call him a top draw, exactly. Owen was at least chasing the main title during his prime
Ok. Just, ok.
Also, I'm pretty sure every time Jeff violated the wellness policy, something came out.
I really do wonder by what measurement we're saying Jeff's better. As a draw? He was always the Smackdown champion... As a matter of fact, I remember him chasing the main title, once in 2008. He was never exactly a top draw, and even on Smackdown, he was over, but I wouldn't call him a top draw, exactly. Owen was at least chasing the main title during his prime
Alex
King Of The Wasteland
I'm going to say this.
If you're going to go on about personal choices, fair enough. Are you going to do the same thing when Scott Hall and Jake Roberts come up because last I checked they'd only just got back on track (and that's thanks to DDP)
Jeff was pretty much in the top three whichever brand he was on. He chased the WWE title for part of 2007 and most of 2008 (and then won it) he also won the World title as well in 2009 and had arguably one of his best fueds ever against CM Punk.
Owen never won the WWF/E title at all. Yeah you're going to argue it was harder back then. But the fact that Hardy won both top titles shows that they thought he could do it considering he was up against Triple H, Edge, Randy Orton, Undertaker, Batista, John Cena and at the time they weren't really building anyone up (Punk at a stretch)
If you're going to go on about personal choices, fair enough. Are you going to do the same thing when Scott Hall and Jake Roberts come up because last I checked they'd only just got back on track (and that's thanks to DDP)
Jeff was pretty much in the top three whichever brand he was on. He chased the WWE title for part of 2007 and most of 2008 (and then won it) he also won the World title as well in 2009 and had arguably one of his best fueds ever against CM Punk.
Owen never won the WWF/E title at all. Yeah you're going to argue it was harder back then. But the fact that Hardy won both top titles shows that they thought he could do it considering he was up against Triple H, Edge, Randy Orton, Undertaker, Batista, John Cena and at the time they weren't really building anyone up (Punk at a stretch)
Do you plan on all of your tournament posts to look like Wikipedia snippets?
I probably will judge Hall & Roberts on their personal choices; Hall especially, because he often did things that Hardy did; no show events, let his in ring work get sloppy, etc. Hardy, though, is the only one to go on pay per view, for a major promotion, in the main event, and show up in no condition to perform.
Also, Jeff Hardy was pretty much a mid card guy in 2007; he got the shove to face Orton, but mainly as a one off, before shock and awe, he failed a wellness policy test. He'd win the belt, but how much do you want to bet WWE was never going to let him have a prolonged stay with the belt?
Calling him top three is laughable; he had a Smackdown run when it was him, and CM Punk. In WWE land, Jeff Hardy was never bigger than Cena, Orton, HBK, Triple H, Batista, hell, Undertaker in part time business did better than he did as champion.
I probably will judge Hall & Roberts on their personal choices; Hall especially, because he often did things that Hardy did; no show events, let his in ring work get sloppy, etc. Hardy, though, is the only one to go on pay per view, for a major promotion, in the main event, and show up in no condition to perform.
Also, Jeff Hardy was pretty much a mid card guy in 2007; he got the shove to face Orton, but mainly as a one off, before shock and awe, he failed a wellness policy test. He'd win the belt, but how much do you want to bet WWE was never going to let him have a prolonged stay with the belt?
Calling him top three is laughable; he had a Smackdown run when it was him, and CM Punk. In WWE land, Jeff Hardy was never bigger than Cena, Orton, HBK, Triple H, Batista, hell, Undertaker in part time business did better than he did as champion.
Alex
King Of The Wasteland
Well yeah I'd put JBL over Owen Hart. Because like, Jeff Hardy as a performer he's more relevant in the grand scheme of things. JBL was the dominant performer on Smackdown for a few years and helped cement John Cena as a main eventer. Jeff Hardy helped revolutionize the ladder match and helped get CM Punk over as a performer. Both won the WWE title (something Owen Hart never did)
In all honesty Owen Hart is remembered for three things.
1. Being Bret's brother
2. Breaking Steve Austin's neck
3 Tragically dying
If you like his work good for you, but in the grand scheme of things Owen Hart never really did anything.
That's why I'm going to vote Jeff Hardy over Owen Hart.
In all honesty Owen Hart is remembered for three things.
1. Being Bret's brother
2. Breaking Steve Austin's neck
3 Tragically dying
If you like his work good for you, but in the grand scheme of things Owen Hart never really did anything.
That's why I'm going to vote Jeff Hardy over Owen Hart.
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
I'll vote for Hardy over Owen. Pretty easy choice for me.
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
He chose to make a stupid grand entrance.
Yeah, on the internet. You never see him in major news publications or on TV news. Owen's death was front page stuff.
I realize that I'm comparing a death to drug addiction. I'm only addressing the fact that you say Jeff has done more harm than good to the business. Owen is far more known for his death than anything he did in the ring.
He may have never been a "top" draw by your standards, but at least he as a draw, something Owen never really was.
I spent £15 on Armageddon 2008 for him.
I bought his My Life, My Rules DVD and ordered the 2008 Royal Rumble on account of him.
That's at least 550 dimes Jeff Hardy drew.
I dunno. I hear Owen's death was a real ratings draw on CNN.
Remy LaCroix
Lou Thesz' Favorite Son
Using the "draw" argument in this tournament is a cop-out, plain and simple.
Before this gets turned to Hardy-Hart already....
Ummmm, no, it isn't?
Besides, we get to argue any way we want to; if I want to argue on drawing, fuck, I'll do it
Fine. What other standard would you prefer I use to demonstrate Hardy's superiority over Hart?
Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
As opposed to just voting for your favorites? IMO, that's a cop out.
Remy LaCroix
Lou Thesz' Favorite Son
I find draw arguments rather dull, nothing more than a feather in a cap for a wrestler who will likely advance (unless they're from the old school, then things get a little interesting until they lose to a modern fan favorite.) But I'm sure you'll make a very compelling one.
Anything will suffice. I don't have the wit to tenderize the horse meat with anything better than "who makes a better crash test dummy".
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
So judging wrestlers by the sole piece of criteria that determines whether or not they're good at their job is a cop-out?
Remy LaCroix
Lou Thesz' Favorite Son
For the tournament? Yes, I firmly believe it's a cop-out. I'm focusing solely on what could happen in the ring, none of that behind-the-scene type of stuff.
Clearly I have a very different idea in mind on how the tournament should play out.
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