TNA Region, Nashville Subregion, First Round: (8) Great Muta vs. (25) Ultimo Dragon

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round match in the TNA Region, Nashville Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under TNA Rules. It will be held at the Bridgestone Arena in Nashville, Tennessee.

#8. Great Muta

Vs.

#25. Ultimo Dragon

​

Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

Muta was great (no pun intended) but Ultimo Dragon was better.

Not to mention, Ultimo Dragon is the only wrestler to hold 10 titles simultaneously.

Ultimo Dragon wins.

 

[Con T.]

Oh, look, all those belts, and not a world heavyweight title to be found.

Lightweights have always played second fiddle to heavyweights, and you could argue Muta is the greatest Triple Crown champion ever. Ultimo Dragon could hold twenty lightweight titles, and still never amount to Muta.

Muta wins a great match, with a very decisive finish.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

The Great Muta is my favourite Japanese wrestler of all time, utilising the Japanese style and mantra but combining it with the more Western idea of gimmicks and characters. Because of this, he totally fit in in Japan but also introduced them to a different kind of star. But his acknowledgement of the power of gimmicks also gave him a natural fan base overseas. Because of this he is credited with bringing a lot of foreign fans' attention to Japanese wrestling.

But on top of it all, he was very good at both aspects of his craft. His mystical poison mist, usually green, is one of the most recognized gimmicks in wrestling, not just in Japan.

Ultimo Dragon was great, and there's obviously value in high-flyers. But he Muta just had so much more to offer than him. You stick Rey Mysterio, you stick Psychosis, you stick Juventud Guerrera in Ultimo's spot at that time and they all fly just as well.

[YOUTUBE]DV4dmUtl0fk[/YOUTUBE]

But there's nobody like Muta in Japan, nor anybody that could do what he did.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Muta got over in both the US and Japan. Dragon wasn't so over in America.

Muta also holds wins over Sting and Hulk Hogan and is one of two wrestlers to hold the IWGP Heavyweight Title and the NWA Title at the same time. He was also a better draw than Dragon.

MUTAHHHH!

 

[nightmare]

Ultimo Dragon was a hot commodity for a short time when lucha\lightweight stars were becoming all the rage. Those belts were all from that period. He hasnt exactly been a household name since.


Muta is a legend because his entire career he has been over as an international star. He has been in\won some fantastic matches in various promotions against many huge names. Plus-owner and president of AJPW is a much bigger deal than anything Ultimo Dragon could ever hope for.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

Keiji Mutoh in a landslide, he's one if the better Japanese talents ever. He's been over everywhere he's gone and with multiple gimmicks. Not alot of people were even in his class. Dragon was good but never made it out of the Junior leagues and that says alot about him.

Winner- Muta with a shining wizard followed up with a moonsault to add insult to injury.

 

[Bernkastel]

Muta was great (no pun intended) but Ultimo Dragon was better.

Not to mention, Ultimo Dragon is the only wrestler to hold 10 titles simultaneously.

Ultimo Dragon wins.

By that logic Kofi Kingston is better than Shawn Michaels because he won the Intercontinental title a billion times and Shawn didn't.

Ultimo Dragon was a glorified cruiserweight. By the logic of Lou Thesz he didn't belong on the same card as a heavyweight like Great Muta. Let alone in the same match.

Muta should win. Comfortably.

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

Ultimo Dragon was a glorified cruiserweight. By the logic of Lou Thesz he didn't belong on the same card as a heavyweight like Great Muta. Let alone in the same match.

Muta should win. Comfortably.

But this is a hypothetical match. So are you implying Ultimo Dragon can't beat Muta because he was a cruiserweight? Keep in mind, Ultimo Dragon has defeated opponents bigger than him and Muta has lost to opponents smaller than him, several times.

I say Ultimo Dragon wins this match as an upset.

 

[Bernkastel]

But this is a hypothetical match. So are you implying Ultimo Dragon can't beat Muta because he was a cruiserweight? Keep in mind, Ultimo Dragon has defeated opponents bigger than him and Muta has lost to opponents smaller than him, several times

I say Ultimo Dragon wins this match as an upset.

So we're basing the outcome purely on subjective means, huh? I'll make sure to make that my flagship argument if Kane faces Hogan so that everyone can take me seriously. The best big men always beat the best small men statistically. It's been that way since before you and I were born. And we were both snot nosed kids when the mindset surrounding small guys universally started to change.

Cry about upsets all you want, but Muta would be booked to win by being the bigger star, being a bigger draw, having a bigger more meaningful legacy, and wins against names that actually matter.

 

[ABMorales787]

But this is a hypothetical match. So are you implying Ultimo Dragon can't beat Muta because he was a cruiserweight? Keep in mind, Ultimo Dragon has defeated opponents bigger than him and Muta has lost to opponents smaller than him, several times.

I say Ultimo Dragon wins this match as an upset.

Brilliant. You're telling me it's a toss up in terms of physical statistics regarding who would win or lose a match? Well fuck. I suppose next you're gonna tell me these guys are actually told when and how to win or lose to one another.

I'm going with Muta. He's a far more known star, has his own promotion, he's creating new talents even in the U.S. and is still relevant worldwide. Ultimo? Well, people stopped giving a fuck after he won that ridiculous J-Crown tournament. You know? The reason he had so many damn belts, yet his pants still kept falling down? Actually, now that I think about it, I think people cared more when he was TV Champ. But maybe that's just my bad memory. He stopped being anything resembling important so long ago, it's just too hard to try to care.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

[YOUTUBE]TJIzfghH5AI[/YOUTUBE]

What happens when Liger and Muta face off? This happens, moonsault, win for muta

 

[Richard Blonoff]

One time I went to a party and finger banged a cheerleader. Now I'm smart enough to know that that isn't gonna happen every time I go to a party. It happens sometimes, but not all the time. In fact it happens so few times, that the one time it happened should be considered a statistical anomaly. Yeah, hypothetically Dragon may beat Muta one on one, just like hypothetically I could finger bang another cheerleader at the party I'm going to Friday night.

Now lets move past hypothetical and move into reality. In reality I'm an overweight and socially awkward nerd who will likely stand around all night holding my drink. In reality, Muta is one of the first Japanese wrestlers who achieved fame outside Japan, has one of the most famous gimmicks of all time, and was once involved in a fight so bloody, they now measure blood loss in a match on the Muta-Scale. Dragon, in reality, was a guy who won a lot of titles, but was never a major player and botched his Wrestlemania entrance.

Hypothetically Dragon could win, but in reality Muta does win.

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

having a bigger more meaningful legacy

Ultimo Dragon created and popularized moves such as the 'The Lionsault' and the 'Asai Moonsault' (move named after him).

These moves are still used by many wrestlers to this day.

 

[Bernkastel]

Ultimo Dragon created and popularized moves such as the 'The Lionsault' and the Asai moonsault (move named after him). These moves are still used by many wrestlers to this day.

And Muta has a scale for bloodshed named after him

Muta was one of the biggest stars in puro history and one of the biggest foreign names internationally - easily surpassing Dragon. When Misawa deflected and created NOAH the ailing AJPW hand selected Muta to be their flagship champion because of his credentials. That's saying loads.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

And Muta has a scale for bloodshed named after him

Muta was one of the biggest stars in puro history and one of the biggest foreign names internationally - easily surpassing Dragon. When Misawa deflected and created NOAH the ailing AJPW hand selected Muta to be their flagship champion because of his credentials. That's saying loads.

Also Muta created the Shining Wizard and the muta lock which are both used often in pretty much all areas of wrestling. Not trying to belittle Liger, I actually like him more than Muta but this is pretty clear cut on who wins.

 

[ABMorales787]

Ultimo Dragon created and popularized moves such as the 'The Lionsault' and the 'Asai Moonsault' (move named after him).

These moves are still used by many wrestlers to this day.

Wow, smart guy. Guess who did MOONSAULT's first? Muta. He still does them too.

 

[Papa Pillman]

All respect to Ultimo Dragon he eventually had to leave NJPW not long after graduating from their dojo due to them not offering him a contract, as they felt he was too small to ever make it. Yet, after going to Mexico and perfecting his unique style of combining Lucha Libre with the Japanese junior Heavyweight style, he became maybe the most decorated "junior" the world ever saw, and influenced the modern high flying style as much or more than any other man.

But that's not enough to put him past Mutoh. They are countrymen and one is obviously higher up the food chain in Japanese wrestling history. That's Mutoh, by an easily definable margin.

 

[Tastycles]

Muta was given the opportunity to wrestle for the highest titles, whilst Ultimo Dragon was left to get on with weight class titles. Muta is a world champion at heavyweight level, but more importantly he is infinitely more familiar and popular to the general audience, so he'd probably win.

 

[HBsam31]

Great Muta is the first Japanese wrestler I was ever exposed to as a kid so I definitely have a soft spot for him. Ultimo Dragon was great for a relatively short amount of time. The Great Muta is a legend. I am a bit biased, but I still think Muta deserves to move on to the next round.

 

[The Brain]

Muta is one of the few Japanese wrestlers to come to the states and have consistent success. To be fair Dragon did ok for himself too but not as well as Muta. Muta also has the size advantage and more experience against bigger stars. The pic of Dragon looks pretty sweet but this is the last we see of it.

 

[enviousdominous]

In keeping with the rules of the thread; my vote is for Muta. I tend to vote with my heart and not my head, but both parts of me recognize that Muta has made a much better impression on me and on the wrestling business. Watching Muta take on Hulk Hogan for the WWF title is honestly one of the more memorable matches I've ever seen, even if by more mature standards it was nothing special it still stole my heart. Knowing that Muta is a household name in the pro-wrestling world and a few of my friends can't even remember who Ultimo Dragon was, my mind (however reliable that might be) tells me that Muta on the card means money.

Now that that's out of my system. I've heard one person on here refer to Ultimo Dragon's participation in the J-Crown Tournament as "ridiculous". We all have our own definition of the word "ridiculous" so I apologize if I misinterpreted a more flattering meaning.

To let others make their own judgement, here's the final of that tournament:

[YOUTUBE]KiRal2nkC3M[/YOUTUBE]