Live Discussion: RAW 11/12/2007

[justinsayne]

Idk I just think that HHH is really a waste of time. I mean the guy is not going to be around all that much longer. I don't see a point in WWE pushing him so heavily still. It get's really old hearing the same thing week in and week out. His matches have reallygone down hillsince he returned and well... he does have a shovel...

I could and have said all those same things about Cena, and for the record Triple H does not have a shovel, he does not bury people, just cause he wins doesn't mean he's burying his oppenents, it wouldn't be realistic for him to come back and just start losing to every up and comer, that would be stupid, and why is it everybody says that about only Triple H, if you go by that logic then Cena, Taker, Kane, HBK, and Mysterio all do the same since they tend to beat everybody they step in the ring with

I do agree with what you said in your other post though, about Triple H should go back to being a heel, I think your right on that Triple H is/was always more entertaining as a heel, and IMO is one of the best heels in WWE history, I would love to see him return to his Cerebral Assassin ways, that's what really made me like the guy in the first place

 

[BooCocky]

I could and have said all those same things about Cena, and for the record Triple H does not have a shovel, he does not bury people, just cause he wins doesn't mean he's burying his oppenents, it wouldn't be realistic for him to come back and just start losing to every up and comer, that would be stupid, and why is it everybody says that about only Triple H, if you go by that logic then Cena, Taker, Kane, HBK, and Mysterio all do the same since they tend to beat everybody they step in the ring with

he domolished the Whole tag division in a matter of minutes. Rey Mysterio hasnt done that. hmmmmmmm

 

[justinsayne]

he domolished the Whole tag division in a matter of minutes. Rey Mysterio hasnt done that. hmmmmmmm

What tag division?, WWE doesn't have a tag division anymore, your telling me that Triple H beating Cade & Murdoch, and then when Londrick ran in and got hit with Pedigrees they never expected that he demolished the whole tag division, cause I didn't see him touch any of the other 2 teams in that so called tag division, and doesn't Rey beat everybody he gets in the ring with anymore, just like Triple H, and why can't you come up with arguments for the other guys I mention?, maybe it's cause you know I right

 

[BooCocky]

yeah because Londrick came out too help, but no the second biggest ego in Wrestling is like i don't need know help so he gives a pedigree to Londrick after they were given a little push. But since HHH needs no help he decided that he should pedigree them too make him look unbeatable.

 

[a7xoff]

I could and have said all those same things about Cena, and for the record Triple H does not have a shovel, he does not bury people, just cause he wins doesn't mean he's burying his oppenents, it wouldn't be realistic for him to come back and just start losing to every up and comer, that would be stupid, and why is it everybody says that about only Triple H, if you go by that logic then Cena, Taker, Kane, HBK, and Mysterio all do the same since they tend to beat everybody they step in the ring with

I do agree with what you said in your other post though, about Triple H should go back to being a heel, I think your right on that Triple H is/was always more entertaining as a heel, and IMO is one of the best heels in WWE history, I would love to see him return to his Cerebral Assassin ways, that's what really made me like the guy in the first place

What I mean by he has a shovel is if you take a look at guys who HHH has beaten as opposed to say Kane or Undertaker for that matter. Guys who Taker's beaten/feuded with have pretty much continued to be on the top of the SD! roster. If you look at HHH. A few years ago at Summerslam he beat Randy Orton for the title. Yes Orton is champ now, but since losing his first title, which he didn't even hold for one PPV until now he really was unseen. He was sent to SD! and did nothing there, and he feuded with DX. It was only aftr Cena ran outof heels to face that WWE decided to bring him back up the charts.
Cena... Certainly burys people. Look at Umaga. The guy goes from headlining to now... Being captain of the Survivor series team, but has lost his unbeaten record and has been made to look like one of the weaker monsters by both Cena and HHH.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

What I mean by he has a shovel is if you take a look at guys who HHH has beaten as opposed to say Kane or Undertaker for that matter. Guys who Taker's beaten/feuded with have pretty much continued to be on the top of the SD! roster. If you look at HHH. A few years ago at Summerslam he beat Randy Orton for the title. Yes Orton is champ now, but since losing his first title, which he didn't even hold for one PPV until now he really was unseen. He was sent to SD! and did nothing there, and he feuded with DX. It was only aftr Cena ran outof heels to face that WWE decided to bring him back up the charts.
Cena... Certainly burys people. Look at Umaga. The guy goes from headlining to now... Being captain of the Survivor series team, but has lost his unbeaten record and has been made to look like one of the weaker monsters by both Cena and HHH.

I don't think that has anything to do with HHH 'burying' him. It's just the honest truth that Cena was a better choice than Orton to be the champ in that point in time until Cena got injured. That's why Orton is the champ now. Cena would STILL be the champion if he wasn't injured - at the same time, everyone but Brian would still hate him. (J/K, Brian, mad respect, thanks for the debate)

Put Umaga up to anyone but HHH. He could still kick the crap out of Cena every once in a while.

Do you really think they would let anyone else win cleanly against Umaga?

Hm... Face Umaga would be very interesting. That almost happened once...

But I digress...

 

[justinsayne]

What I mean by he has a shovel is if you take a look at guys who HHH has beaten as opposed to say Kane or Undertaker for that matter. Guys who Taker's beaten/feuded with have pretty much continued to be on the top of the SD! roster. If you look at HHH. A few years ago at Summerslam he beat Randy Orton for the title. Yes Orton is champ now, but since losing his first title, which he didn't even hold for one PPV until now he really was unseen. He was sent to SD! and did nothing there, and he feuded with DX. It was only aftr Cena ran outof heels to face that WWE decided to bring him back up the charts.

Well I think the reason Orton was unseen after losing to Triple H was because he was constantly getting into trouble backstage, and was also injured for good chunk of that time as well, and when he was on SD! he was one of the top heels on that brand and feuded with Taker for a majority of it, and then feuded with Mysertio and Angle going into WM22, and continued his feud with Angle after WM, and during his feud with DX he was constantly in the ring with three other ME level guys in Trips, HBK, and Edge, so he was being used in major storylines, and being push to an extent, if he could manage to keep his ass out of trouble maybe he would spend more time in the title picture

Cena... Certainly burys people. Look at Umaga. The guy goes from headlining to now... Being captain of the Survivor series team, but has lost his unbeaten record and has been made to look like one of the weaker monsters by both Cena and HHH.

I wouldn't just look at Umanga, their are more than just him who have been "buried" by Cena, I beleive that list would include Edge, Triple H, Benoit (yeah I know you never heard of him right), Jericho, Carlito, Lashley, HBK, Orton, and JBL, just to name a few

IMO Umanga isn't ME material yet, but his feud with Trips is getting him closer, only time will tell though

 

[BooCocky]

I wouldn't just look at Umanga, their are more than just him who have been "buried" by Cena, I beleive that list would include Edge, Triple H, Benoit (yeah I know you never heard of him right), Jericho, Carlito, Lashley, HBK, Orton, and JBL, just to name a few

IMO Umanga isn't ME material yet, but his feud with Trips is getting him closer, only time will tell though

Well, when Cena was defeating all of these guys, this was basically in the process of the WWE shoving John Cena down our throat, and trying to force him to get over with Crowd. Some fans are so critical on HHH because he is in his late 30's and has nothing else to prove, so I personally just hate when he goes out their a defeats everyone because being a 10 or 11 time champion means he has nothing else to prove, so why doesnt' he help younger talent get over.

Chris Benoit: had nothing else in his wrestling career too prove, he was already on top of his game.

Jericho: Had nothing else too prove, and wasnt Jericho taking a break from wrestling at that point?

HBK: he has had a story book career, many title reigns, therefore he has nothing else too prove.

JBL: Had a long career and was on top for nearly a year. Therefore he had nothing else to prove.

Carlito: was just a waste of space and isnt gonna go anywhere with his gimmick.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Carlito: was just a waste of space and isnt gonna go anywhere with his gimmick.

With that being said, here's a legit question:

Can you see Carlito with any other gimmick? Like... anything at all? The generic wrestler wouldn't be too much of a change, except he'll stop spitting apples in peoples' faces.

 

[BooCocky]

With that being said, here's a legit question:

Can you see Carlito with any other gimmick? Like... anything at all? The generic wrestler wouldn't be too much of a change, except he'll stop spitting apples in peoples' faces.

when he first arrived i thought this gimmick would work. But hte only problem is when he first debut i was getting back into wrestling. I couldn't see him with anything but that's because creative screwed up his gimmick. Fake an injury and let him come back as something new, who knows what can happen.