Is John Cena actually showing signs of a heel turn?

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Here is another faulty arguement. Cena is this generation's Hogan. Hogan did not split the crowd every time he went out. I'm watching NYR 2006 ppv and an over heel Edge was cheered when he beat Cena for the title. That was 2006 and it's 2010. That is minimum 4 years of your supposed top face getting booed. I don't recall Hogan getting booed at WM 2, 3, 4, 5. I dont recall the iron shiek getting cheered when he faced Hogan.
 
Here is another faulty arguement. Cena is this generation's Hogan. Hogan did not split the crowd every time he went out. I'm watching NYR 2006 ppv and an over heel Edge was cheered when he beat Cena for the title. That was 2006 and it's 2010. That is minimum 4 years of your supposed top face getting booed. I don't recall Hogan getting booed at WM 2, 3, 4, 5. I dont recall the iron shiek getting cheered when he faced Hogan.

If there were sites like Wrestlezone around in Hogan's time, we would be more familiar with the business like we are now and he might have faced a similar reaction to Cena's. Edge got cheered because he won his first world title. Anyone with a fanbase gets cheered when that happens. The business is different now than it was then. People cheer for who they want, and boo for who they want, because the business is not as black and white with their faces and heels as they used to be, hence why some people don't like Cena since he is today's Hogan and they don't want an all around good guy as the main face.
 
Maybe it's just me, but I think some of the adult fans want Cena to turn heel too much for the pure sadistic enjoyment of seeing the crushed faces of little kids as they lose their hero. Can't you remember what it is like to actually worship someone & want to emulate them? Wanting to turn Cena just to see kids cry is a bit selfish. I don't really get why people are so obsessed with a heel turn for Cena. I understand that you may not like him or think he's not edgy enough (or perhaps even talented , in your opinion), but he's the top face- and a damn popular one at that. I don't see threads on here begging for the top heels in the WWE to be turned face. I get tired of the IWC claiming that every wrestling fan boos or hates Cean; it's simply not true. I hear cheering at live events. I hear cheering when I go to my local sports bar to see the ppvs. I see people wearing Cena merchandise. There are boos, but it's not like the whole audience is rioting at every show because they loathe Cena so much-it's mainly here in the IWC. It seems to burn some wrestling fans that a performer who is dedicated to his job actually gets rewarded for it. When the IWC starts calling for an Edge face turn or Orton face turn as much as they beg for a Cena heel turn, maybe then it will seem less like sour grapes.
 
Well, sort of. He's main eventing, but a "main eventer" generally means those who are established in the upper card and are almost always in the main event scene. Sheamus is too new to be called one yet. Having the championship puts him up there right now, but once he loses it I bet he will get knocked down and will have to make his way back up to main event level. We'll see.

Well you don't know that. If Sheamus gets enough heat from now until the time he loses the champion, he could be pretty well established as a main-event mega-heel. They could throw him at Kofi, they could turn him face and throw him at Orton, perhaps Batista on Smackdown, and then bury him by throwing him at DX. I mean, for all of that NOTHING they've done for him two and three weeks ago, he got a surprising amount of heat on Monday, and I could only imagine it growing as time goes on.

I agree they get boring if too many are done. After a good "respect" title match between two faces, it's nice to see a "revenge" feud between a face and heel due to the heel's actions instead because it's different and brings out the rage in faces like Cena. However, are you seeing Cena VS Sheamus as both a respect feud and a revenge feud? I'm not quite seeing it onscreen, but I see the point you are making if so.

No, I mean with Cena, EVERYTHING is a respect feud. He tried to do it with Orton too. "Two men on the fight of their lives, brothers in the ring, yadda yadda," while Orton was talking about kicking him in the skull and ending his career. Cena does that with EVERYBODY, and attempted to do it before Sheamus put him through a table a SECOND time when he was going about being able to take Sheamus seriously after the contract signing. It was what I was talking about earlier. I've become jaded with Cena. I'm indifferent to everything he does.

The JBL thing was over by the road to Wrestlemania. Jericho took the IC title and lost the MITB match. JBL had that pointless feud with Finlay. It was 2 months later that the HBK stuff started because HBK VS Jericho didn't even begin until after HBK's Batista feud ended after Backlash.

Well I'm sure they were waiting for the HBK/Flair thing to end before they set up HBK/Jericho. Like I said, all they were doing with Jericho was setting up his character as an intelligent, yet violently temperamental guy. You get in his way and he'll choke you out with a wire. Then he was floating in limbo for a while until HBK/Flair ended, then they used that as a springboard to launch HBK/Jericho. And HBK/Batista was pretty much a set up. I actually thought it was going to be set up as a three-way feud, but Batista kind of backed out at the end, and it just ended up being an HBK/Jericho feud in the end.


HBK VS Jericho was definitely a main event feud. He had been in the upper card before his return though. Undisputed Champion reign, and his feud with Cena in 05 to name a couple.

That's the point I've been trying to make. The dude is a born main-eventer. Even if he's in the mid-card, he'll do what he can to make people hear his name, and sometimes, if he gets good enough, he'll turn his upper-midcard feud into the main event, and the real main event gets drowned out. Happened many times in WCW where people were more interested in what he was doing rather than what "swerve" Hogan was coming up with that week.

Indeed they do. I don't think they would do it this early though. Vince brought in Hart because they need to make sure no one watches Impact (I'll still watch both), but he probably still doesn't see them as big enough of a threat to turn Cena. TNA would have to reach WCW's level of a threat first, that would make more sense.

I see what you mean now. Yeah, Bret Hart was the first shot at TNA, but this really isn't over. I don't think the WWE is going to toy with TNA, because they've seen what can happen if they don't take their competition seriously, no matter how small it is. If they're planning on a Cena feud now, they're going to do it, regardless of how well TNA does on Mondays. They're not going to waste any time obliterating TNA. I don't think a Cena heel turn is going to happen RIGHT now, but IF they're hinting at a heel turn with his recent promos, then they're taking their time with it until people are used to seeing Bret around.

I'm predicting a HBK/Hart feud with Cena butting in if he turns heel. He probably won't need a gimmick change either. He could go after Bret for running away from a company, and by proxy, running away from a fight, not having respect for the company and his fans by leaving for however-many-years, etc.

think that makes sense. It could be used as a way to keep fans away from TNA, but I still say that turning Cena should be a last resort. What if they turned him, but had no top face to replace him? Kofi's not quite ready yet, DX is in the tag title scene, and MVP's.... well... MVP.

Keep in mind that there's a draft coming up. He's got Christian, Batista, Rey Mysterio, Undertaker, DX (I don't see why he couldn't feud with them)... THEN they could spend that time building Kofi, MVP, Evan Bourne, anyone.

I get tired of the IWC claiming that every wrestling fan boos or hates Cean; it's simply not true. I hear cheering at live events. I hear cheering when I go to my local sports bar to see the ppvs. I see people wearing Cena merchandise. There are boos, but it's not like the whole audience is rioting at every show because they loathe Cena so much.

This has been discussed time and time again. You can look at the ratings of RAW and see what they've been like every time Cena's main-eventing Raw with one of his samey-feuds with some random guy... or Orton. They just haven't been entertaining. We see the same people all. the. time. and it gets to the point where even the casual fan is getting tired of it.

The problem with smarks who are like "IWC this and IWC that," is that they don't understand that this is JUST a T.V. show that can be compared to any other T.V. show, or even a sport.

Take football for instance.

What would you think if you took the Patriots and put them up against the Dolphins every single week? Sure, for the hardcore fans, it may be entertaining discussion fodder for a few weeks, but then you start to wonder why they're doing it, because it stopped being entertaining after, like, the third game.

What if House was dealing with the same disease week after week?
What if Fringe just had an arc where they forgot about William Bell and started looking for him again?

There are fans who will cheer regardless, but people get tired of it, and the ratings reflect that.
 
He certainly is, but it leaves him very few options for Wrestlemania if he does turn heel. I guess Cena vs Taker would be the logical way to go, and if Edge returns to face JKericho, then that makes sense. So Sheamus continually holds onto his title and Cena snaps I guess. Maybe he eliminates Taker from the Rumble illegally, i dont know. Done correxctly, this leadup to Mania could be the best since 2001
 
There is absolutely zero chance that John Cena will turn heel in the near or middle future. What his recent promos show is determination, not heelishness. No promotion has ever turned its top face heel without having a valid backup top face in the wings. WCW could turn Hogan because they had Sting, WWF could turn Austin because they had The Rock. The only possible replacement for Cena was Jeff Hardy, and that ship has sailed quite a long way from these shores. If Cena turns heel in 2010, then you will see a severe downturn in the WWE's fortunes.
 
John Cena is not turning heel nor will he for a while because of one simple fact: There's nobody else to replace him as a sustainable top face. I don't see HHH or HBK being the top face on RAW anytime soon and the next available option Kofi is nowhere near ready yet. Maybe in a couple of years, Cena can turn heel but that really depends on how the rest of the roster improves.
 
Well you don't know that. If Sheamus gets enough heat from now until the time he loses the champion, he could be pretty well established as a main-event mega-heel. They could throw him at Kofi, they could turn him face and throw him at Orton, perhaps Batista on Smackdown, and then bury him by throwing him at DX. I mean, for all of that NOTHING they've done for him two and three weeks ago, he got a surprising amount of heat on Monday, and I could only imagine it growing as time goes on.

Yeah, I never said he doesn't have the potential. I just meant as of right this very second on January 1st, 2010 at 9:45 PM, he is still an upper midcard heel who happened to get the title in a fluke win. Does he have the potential to be a mega-heel someday? Sure! I'd believe that. He's improved a lot, and my only problem with him is how insanely fast he's been pushed.

No, I mean with Cena, EVERYTHING is a respect feud. He tried to do it with Orton too. "Two men on the fight of their lives, brothers in the ring, yadda yadda," while Orton was talking about kicking him in the skull and ending his career. Cena does that with EVERYBODY, and attempted to do it before Sheamus put him through a table a SECOND time when he was going about being able to take Sheamus seriously after the contract signing. It was what I was talking about earlier. I've become jaded with Cena. I'm indifferent to everything he does.

Good point, but when he faces another face the feud becomes ALL about respect and who is the better man. An example is when he faced Triple H at Night of Champions 2008. That feud was nothing but who was better than the other. However when he faces heels, even the buildup towards the Iron Man match with Orton, the heel inevitably does something to infuriate Cena and bring out his rage. That makes it a revenge feud, even if he still wants respect and to know who the better man is.

Well I'm sure they were waiting for the HBK/Flair thing to end before they set up HBK/Jericho. Like I said, all they were doing with Jericho was setting up his character as an intelligent, yet violently temperamental guy. You get in his way and he'll choke you out with a wire. Then he was floating in limbo for a while until HBK/Flair ended, then they used that as a springboard to launch HBK/Jericho. And HBK/Batista was pretty much a set up. I actually thought it was going to be set up as a three-way feud, but Batista kind of backed out at the end, and it just ended up being an HBK/Jericho feud in the end.

That's the point I've been trying to make. The dude is a born main-eventer. Even if he's in the mid-card, he'll do what he can to make people hear his name, and sometimes, if he gets good enough, he'll turn his upper-midcard feud into the main event, and the real main event gets drowned out. Happened many times in WCW where people were more interested in what he was doing rather than what "swerve" Hogan was coming up with that week.

Yep, you pretty much nailed it. Good job! I agree with that whole quote.

I see what you mean now. Yeah, Bret Hart was the first shot at TNA, but this really isn't over. I don't think the WWE is going to toy with TNA, because they've seen what can happen if they don't take their competition seriously, no matter how small it is. If they're planning on a Cena feud now, they're going to do it, regardless of how well TNA does on Mondays. They're not going to waste any time obliterating TNA. I don't think a Cena heel turn is going to happen RIGHT now, but IF they're hinting at a heel turn with his recent promos, then they're taking their time with it until people are used to seeing Bret around.

If it's going to happen, I think they would take their time with it and make it either slowly build over time, and have him just play a tweener until they need an "OMG" moment because TNA somehow manages to reach WCW's level, then they turn him and bring in a new top face. It'd take the original WCW to be able to compete with that.

I'm predicting a HBK/Hart feud with Cena butting in if he turns heel. He probably won't need a gimmick change either. He could go after Bret for running away from a company, and by proxy, running away from a fight, not having respect for the company and his fans by leaving for however-many-years, etc.

Maybe.... It depends on what the plans for Wrestlemania are. We have a couple of months though before we will really know what's going on. I think that HBK and Hart will have the final chapter of their feud and Cena will off be doing something else, hopefully facing Taker.

Keep in mind that there's a draft coming up. He's got Christian, Batista, Rey Mysterio, Undertaker, DX (I don't see why he couldn't feud with them)... THEN they could spend that time building Kofi, MVP, Evan Bourne, anyone.

Not necessarily. The draft is usually in summers and we are still weeks away from the Royal Rumble. Out of that list he could face both members of DX, Taker at Wrestlemania possibly, and then the draft will become more of an issue. Kofi, MVP, Bourne, and other midcard faces should be built up nonstop between now and Cena's turn if they do intend to turn him, so they can be given their chance one by one against him.

I stand by my statement though that it doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon because they just do not have anyone who could take his place as top face yet. HBK is going to be busy with Hart for a while, HHH as top face has been done, and none of the midcard guys could step up at this point. Kofi MAYBE but he's not quite there yet.
 
If it's going to happen, I think they would take their time with it and make it either slowly build over time, and have him just play a tweener until they need an "OMG" moment because TNA somehow manages to reach WCW's level, then they turn him and bring in a new top face. It'd take the original WCW to be able to compete with that.

Wow, that is a very interesting situation, to say the least.

In fact, it could be very well possible. If and when TNA reaches the level where they could be seen as a legitimate threat, the heel turn of John Cena could be just the thing to turn the tide, much like Hogan's heel turn was for WCW. It could be a true success, as fans would be tuning in to see who could hand Cena his ass every week.

But, I think that time is still far too off (as far as TNA). Like many have said, if they wish to turn him heel sooner, they must build up another mega face to replace him. And there doesn't seem to be much building in the works.
 
Ok IWC...check this one out. Idk if this has been thought of, but was just reading a post,(sry, didn't get your sn) and my bulb just went off. I love 2 hate cena, mostly just because he is too over with vince, but wouldn't it be a great idea if for his heel turn, he calls on vinnie mac to help him with his fight against presumably undertaker, and they turn on the people and the ring fills up with garbage and we get the corpoation part 2 form there. I lovve this concept. When WWE did this with austin, I loved it, the top guy sells out to the fans and wears a nice ass suit by the way. This didn't hurt austin when he went for his face turn. It can always be up and down but with cena, I think if he does turn heel, when he comes "back to the side of good" it will mean soo much more. Plus, the "E" might just have a war on their hands and it wouldn't hurt to have fresh storylines.
 
I really hope Cena turns heel sooner or later because his character nowadays is really boring to watch. He comes out every week, and literally sounds like the city mayor trying to make everything good and right with the way he talks and about two minutes into most of his promos I'm not really listening anymore. WWE needs to add something fresh to the mix, especially since tonight they go head to head with TNA, and I think the perfect way to do that, not only with this Bret Hart fiasco, would be to have Cena turn heel. However, we're all getting too hopeful here because knowing Vince and knowing how much he loves making money (seems to be all he cares about nowadays as he gives us a half-ass product on tv most nights), Cena will not be turning heel anytime soon.

If I can sort of go back in time a bit, I loved Cena on SmackDown between 2003 and 2005 with his rapper gimmick, and even on RAW he wasn't really that bad until Vince realized he'd become the true main event and face of the company, and then it all changed. I personally haven't liked Cena since right around Wrestlemania 23, and unless he turns heel I'll continue to dislike him. He's just there to please the fans and sell merchandise to all the kids. For god's sake he can't even wrestle! I hope he goes heel, I really do, but it's probably a lost cause.
 
Unlike Batista, Cena in my view will not really benefit form turning. The kids love him and on the merchandise is not going to help him, sure it would be nice to have the old rapper back for a while but right now, is like turning Hogan in the 80s (I know the audience is way smaller now), the taget to which Cena is aiming is the kids, and turn their hero on the is no good at all. Yeah, it will be nice for the older fans to see a Cena as a villain but is not good for the kids, the target.

I know that a lotof people, who are not kids like Cena, but you have got to admit that it is the target they are aiming with him, Rey Mysterio and the New D-X, otherwise D-X would have never admitted Hornswaggle as mascot.
 
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