Championship Region, Fifth Round: (2) Undertaker vs. (4) Kurt Angle

[klunderbunker]

This is a fifth round match in the Championship Region. It is a standard one on one match, held at Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara, California.

Rules: This is the first round of a three round, one night tournament. Damage taken will carry over to the next round and will be based on the margin and score. For example, if the match is 40-39, it was a back and forth war. If the score was 59-2, it was a squash.

#2. Undertaker

Vs.

#4. Kurt Angle

​

Polls will be open for six days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Slyfox696]

What an interesting matchup.

On one hand, we have a wrestler known essentially for what amounts to a single claim to fame. On the other hand, we have a smark darling who is incredibly overrated.

So which is which? That's a great question. I'm not even sure myself. Angle's biggest accomplishment, a gold medal, has nothing to do with pro wrestling and he's shown himself to be a talent ridiculously overrated by the IWC. Undertaker has essentially one claim to fame, a Wrestlemania streak which doesn't even exist anymore, and he's consistently shown himself to be ridiculously overrated by the IWC, likely because of his childish gimmick (we won't go into the irony of a smark criticizing Cena for appealing to children and being stale and then praising the Undertaker).

Neither guy is as good in the ring as fans want to pretend they are. Neither man has really ever shown themselves to consistently be a big draw as the top guy. Neither man has ever changed the fortunes of a promotion. Both men have had good matches, but neither man has shown the ability to make a weaker performer look great.


Consider my vote up for bid. Convince me why one wrestler or the other deserves my vote, when I really don't think either wrestler deserves my vote.

 

[stingray11214]

This one goes to Taker. Look, lets be real here: What is the true testament of a wrestler's talent? That someone can take a gimmick that was supposed to die a painful death, and turned it into and iconic figure. Not only did Mark Calaway get himself over, he helped get over Bill Moody's Paul Bearer and Glenn Jacobs' Kane over as well. He won his share of straps, and he was the iconic figure for WrestleMania for almost a quarter century.

Now, Kurt Angle left, as some of you would put it, the "biggest company in the world" on bad terms. He was a known drug abuser, known alcoholic. His biggest claim to fame came in TNA. Sadly, his biggest problems came to light as well. However, does anyone outside the IWC really care about Angle? I'd say not.

With that infor, Taker should win this. Vote for Taker.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

In one versus one competition the Undertaker has a very impressive record: won 1188, lost 252, drew 70. Against Kurt Angle in televised matches the record is 4 wins each with 4 'draws'... but... after their first televised bout that Taker won clean against the rookie, Kurt has had his number - Taker has not won via pinfall or submission since while Angle has pinned Taker three times. When DQs have meant he holds onto a belt, Kurt has taken the cheap route - when he has had to win, he has won.

This isn't WrestleMania, Angle's 3 I's have always trumped the Deadman's mind games and they will here. Oh, it's real, It's Damn Real! (sorry boss, I had too)

 

[Papa Pillman]

The head to head reality between these two is pretty even, so it likely can't be used as a deciding factor in this match-up.

I'm going to lean Taker due to the fact that his status as a key player at or near the top of WWE cards during the last days of the Hogan era, spanning into the Attitude era, extending across the Ruthless Aggression era, into the PG era and more contemporary WWE, has to be considered a major feather in his hat. Angle, while continuing to perform at a high level in the ring, has been plagued by injuries and personal issues that have at times hindered his career, and he has been unable to have a significant effect on raising TNA's profile as a wrestling company, despite being arguably the biggest free agent signing in that company's history as far as active wrestlers go.

Taker has also competed in, and won, far more huge matches in these types of giant venues, in front of massive stadium sized crowds, than Angle has.

Taker advancing seems to be the pretty clearly better choice here. I'd like to hear a compelling argument made for Angle, because their doesn't seem to really be a lot there to allow him to be a player to win this match.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

This is a seven match one night tournament you can't have UT come out more than once. His aura loses it's power and the 17 minutes ring entrances chew up too much time. Vote Angle, or not. I don't care, I just wanted to point out the most important thing when booking this match.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Consider my vote up for bid. Convince me why one wrestler or the other deserves my vote, when I really don't think either wrestler deserves my vote.

Longevity and contribution go to the Undertaker, as did their only major one on one world title match.


For those reasons, Ill roll with Taker.

 

[Shocky]

Longevity and contribution go to the Undertaker, as did their only major one on one world title match.


For those reasons, Ill roll with Taker.

Angle beat Taker at No Way Out 2006 in a match that should have closed the show at Wrestlemania. Angle is also the only guy to make Taker tap out in a match. I think Takers only big victory against Angle took place in 2000. Both guys are solid, not sure who I'm voting for, but Angle has had his number.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Angle beat Taker at No Way Out 2006 in a match that should have closed the show at Wrestlemania. Angle is also the only guy to make Taker tap out in a match. I think Takers only big victory against Angle took place in 2000. Both guys are solid, not sure who I'm voting for, but Angle has had his number.

Yea man, how the fuck did I get that mixed up?


Angle beat Taker. But still.


Vote Taker, as he has made a gimmick from Cartoon wrestling last through the dregs of the AE (Awful Era) all the way to modern times.

 

[Dragon Chief]

Kurt Angle has beaten Undertaker at Survivor Series 2000, No Way Out 2006 and is the only person in history to make him tap out. Kurt Angle beat Undertaker as a rookie and as a veteran. Kurt Angle should go over here, history speaks for itself.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Angle beat Taker at No Way Out 2006 in a match that should have closed the show at Wrestlemania. Angle is also the only guy to make Taker tap out in a match. I think Takers only big victory against Angle took place in 2000. Both guys are solid, not sure who I'm voting for, but Angle has had his number.

This.

It is essential we remember this because these are the telling facts. In 2002, Taker tapped out the same time the ref counted 3 with Angle's shoulders on the mat. IN 2006, both men were at their best and Angle trumped Taker.

I am leaning Angle

 

[Shocky]

An edit to my original post. Taker beat Angle at Fully Loaded in July of 2000, and lost to him at Survivor Series of the same year.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

This is the SS when the Decade of Destruction poster came out and Taker wore god awful brown denim pants to mark the occasion.

You deserve to lose Deadman.

 

[nightmare]

American Olympic Hero vs American Badass....


Two vastly different styles & career paths here. Taker took a bleh gimmick, turned the evil up to 11 & kicked some major ass in the #1 wrestling promotion before becoming essentially a sideshow attraction for once a year. Angle took a legit wrestling background & adapted to become pretty damn entertaining while kicking ass in the same #1 promotion before leaving & eventually becoming a broken shell of himself in TNA. Should the end times of either man's career outweigh the awesome matches\moments during their better years? Do we go off of title wins overall, or importance to their companies?



This was a toss up for me, but I have decided Angle. He made Taker tap out, has won belts all over the place & has been part of some of my favorite matches during his time. Giving this one to Kurt.

 

[Bdubbs]

Taker is one of my all-time favorites, but I can see this match going either way. Neither are considered top draws, and the 1 vs 1 record is pretty close. UT took a cheesy cartoon character and turned it into one of the most recognizable, longest-lasting gimmicks of all time. I can't think of anybody else who could really make the gimmick successful over the long-term. Also, Taker is widely respected as a locker room veteran. Although the WM luster is gone for UT, there's no denying his contributions to WWF/E throughout the years.

As has been stated, Angle is revered with the IWC, and he's a good technical wrestler. This is going to end up very close, and regardless of the outcome, I have a feeling the winner of this match is going down in the next round of the tournament.

Voting Taker due to personal preference.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

I voted for Andre The Giant last round and gave my reason why. The Undertaker is my favorite wrestler and I can't do that to him one more time. No matter if Angle truly deserves it.

He's the kind of character that's kept my interest all of these years. Met him in person and have his autograph. People vote on their personal faves in this all the time. Weak argument I know but I never found Angle that interesting. Going with the deadman.

 

[Dragon Chief]

A picture is worth a thousand words, those are three thousands words and reasons to vote for Angle, he has been the winner in most of their bouts and has made Taker tap out. Not to mention Kurt Angle has done something Undertaker was never able to do, beat Brock Lesnar.

Vote: Angle

 

[SSJPhenom]

I don't know which way is up in this tournament anymore. Several people from last round that, by all rights, should have lost are now in the championship region. Everyone knows that 'Taker is my favorite wrestler, however, last round I argued against him and even voted for Andre. I'm happy he made it though.

If you consider the criteria: Longevity, drawing ability, influence, contributions, etc; then you have to vote for the Undertaker in this match. If you go by kayfabe, then your vote should go to Angle as Angle has proven to be successful against 'Taker in one on one matches.

I like to consider both and its not like Angle has won every match he's had against 'Taker and he definitely didn't dominate the ones he did win. Because of that, I'm voting for 'Taker.

Vote 'Taker.

 

[Bernkastel]

I really do not understand the justification of pushing Kurt Angle so hard this year. Is it because he has a good record against Lesnar and you all want the finals to be somewhat competitive? That's the only reason I can think of. Yes, Taker is overrated and there's no real reason why he should have beaten Andre last round, but that being said he should defeat Angle quite easily. Even if Angle does have a kayfabe advantage, Undertaker is just better. Period.

I really only vote the best of best over Taker, and Angle doesn't fit into that mix. This isn't a shoot. Taker is the better pro wrestler and should win here.

 

[Dragon Chief]

I really do not understand the justification of pushing Kurt Angle so hard this year. Is it because he has a good record against Lesnar and you all want the finals to be somewhat competitive? That's the only reason I can think of. Yes, Taker is overrated and there's no real reason why he should have beaten Andre last round, but that being said he should defeat Angle quite easily. Even if Angle does have a kayfabe advantage, Undertaker is just better. Period.

I really only vote the best of best over Taker, and Angle doesn't fit into that mix. This isn't a shoot. Taker is the better pro wrestler and should win here.

In what way is Taker better than Angle? Angle is better in the ring, on the mic and accomplished nearly everything Taker did in less time. You said it yourself Kurt Angle has a kayfabe advantage so what reason is there to vote for Undertaker? Kayfabe wise Angle wins, talent wise Angle wins.

Vote: Kurt Angle

 

[The Brain]

Everyone knows that 'Taker is my favorite wrestler, however, last round I argued against him and even voted for Andre.

I saw you posted for Andre but you actually voted for Taker. You can't fool us

I really do not understand the justification of pushing Kurt Angle so hard this year. Is it because he has a good record against Lesnar and you all want the finals to be somewhat competitive? That's the only reason I can think of. Yes, Taker is overrated and there's no real reason why he should have beaten Andre last round, but that being said he should defeat Angle quite easily. Even if Angle does have a kayfabe advantage, Undertaker is just better. Period.

I really only vote the best of best over Taker, and Angle doesn't fit into that mix. This isn't a shoot. Taker is the better pro wrestler and should win here.

You say Angle does have a kayfabe advantage so that alone is at least some justification to vote for Angle. Angle was always booked strong against Taker. Yeah, Survivor Series 2000 was controversial but he technically got a clean pin against Taker. The Fourth of July Smackdown in 2002 ended in a draw but Angle actually got Taker to tap. No one had done that before and no one has done it since. No Way Out 2006 was an undisputed clean pinfall victory. Sure, Taker could beat Angle but Angle is clearly more than capable of beating Taker too. My vote goes to Angle.

 

[Bernkastel]

In what way is Taker better than Angle? Angle is better in the ring, on the mic and accomplished nearly everything Taker did in less time. You said it yourself Kurt Angle has a kayfabe advantage so what reason is there to vote for Undertaker? Kayfabe wise Angle wins, talent wise Angle wins.

Vote: Kurt Angle

Hmm... let's see. Undertaker has had more longevity. He's been more relevant. In ring ability is strictly subjective, but if you want to bring up number of classic matches then that's Taker. For sure.

Neither one of these guys have ever been on top, but at least Taker has remained relevant as a huge star in the number one promotion in the world. Kurt Angle took his talents to a smaller company which didn't draw a dime off his star power. in fact the women were outdrawing Angle at one point.

If kayfabe is all you have to go on to get a guy forward then maybe, just maybe, it shouldn't be that big of a deciding factor.

 

[Dragon Chief]

Hmm... let's see. Undertaker has had more longevity. He's been more relevant. In ring ability is strictly subjective, but if you want to bring up number of classic matches then that's Taker. For sure.

Neither one of these guys have ever been on top, but at least Taker has remained relevant as a huge star in the number one promotion in the world. Kurt Angle took his talents to a smaller company which didn't draw a dime off his star power. in fact the women were outdrawing Angle at one point.

If kayfabe is all you have to go on to get a guy forward then maybe, just maybe, it shouldn't be that big of a deciding factor.

Kurt Angle didn't draw a dime in TNA but neither did Sting, Hulk Hogan, Jeff Hardy, etc.. all who did well in larger promotions hmm...coincidence? Maybe it's not the wrestler to blame but rather the promotion for bad booking. Neither guy was at top? Kurt Angle was beating the likes of Steve Austin and The Rock in his rookie years while Undertaker was wrestling forgettable tag team matches alongside Kane. Fast forward to 2002-2003 Kurt Angle was in high profile feuds with Brock Lesnar, and stealing the show teaming up with Chris Benoit, even headlining WrestleMania 19 while Undertaker was feuding with Big Show and A-Train.

If Kurt Angle stayed in the WWE he would have no doubt remained a huge star. Let's compare WrestleMania matches between the two for as long as Angle was in WWE:

WrestleMania 2000: Kurt Angle V. Chris Benoit V. Chris Jericho/Taker Injured
WrestleMania 17: Kurt Angle V. Chris Benoit/Taker V. Triple H
WrestleMania 18: Kurt Angle V. Kane/ Taker V. Ric Flair
WrestleMania 19: Kurt Angle V. Brock Lesnar/ Taker V. A-Train and Big Show
WretleMania 20: Kurt Angle V. Eddie Guerrero/ Taker V. Kane
WrestleMania 21: Kurt Angle V. Shawn Michaels/ Taker V. Randy Orton
WrestleMania 22: Kurt Angle V. Randy Orton V. Rey Mysterio/ Undertaker V. Mark Henry

Kurt Angle has had higher profile matches at almost all those WrestleManias and usually had the match of the night. Kurt Angle took his talents to TNA where he put on classics with the likes of Samoa Joe, AJ Styles and Jeff Hardy while Undertaker stayed in WWE wrestling guys he already wrestled a hundred times before. At the time Kurt Angle left the only wrestlers he never beat in the WWE were Batista and Mark Henry where as TNA at the time offered Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, Sting etc.. seems like a smarter decision to go to TNA and give the fans better matches.

The difference between the two is simple Kurt Angle accomplished everything there is to accomplish in WWE, went to TNA accomplished everything there is to accomplish there. Undertaker accomplished everything there is to accomplish in WWE and decided to stay even though he has nothing more to prove and has come to point where he is turning into one of those Ric Flair types where he doesn't know when it's time to hang up the boots. Kurt Angle continues to put on a clinics while Takers last three matches were mediocre at best.

 

[nightmare]

Taker is a WWE legend for sure. He has been a solid guy in the ring and in the locker room for years & has certainly put on some great matches worthy of a HOF ring. His streak is something no-one will ever touch. He does deserve the credit people give him, but he can surely be overrated when his WWE\F success is given more points over someone who has great accomplishments elsewhere.


Kurt Angle took WWE by storm his rookie year, after having a stellar amateur career & even winning an Olympic gold medal. Taker loses points there when comparing careers leading up to & including their rookie years.


Need more? Lets look at the rest of their respective careers to date.


Taker has done virtually all there is to do in the WWE\F besides winning KOTR & being in the HOF at this point. A career well done in the land of McMahon.


Kurt has done virtually all there is to do in the WWE\F besides winning the Royal Rumble & being in the HOF at this point. Then he added to those accolades by doing all there is to do in TNA & even got in a reign with the IWGP Heavyweight Title to add another belt to his impressive list of accomplishments. A career well done in the world of wrestling. So well done in fact, that he was named wrestler of the decade & arguably has one of the greatest rookie years by anyone ever.




This is not a tournament run by any of the McMahon family, nor is it at Wrestlemania. This, simply put, is not Taker's yard. He is up against the only man to ever make him tap & someone who has accomplished waaaaaayyy more in wrestling as a whole. If you want to vote kayfabe, cool. Then give Mr. Calaway his magical urn & trot his corpse on through to the end using his super evil demon powers . If you want to vote with your brain & make this one about who is the better wrestler based on match history & career accomplishments- then Kurt Angle is your man.

 

[Tastycles]

I don't particularly care either way, as neither belong in the semi finals, but I went with Angle on the fact that the Undertaker has a long history of losing to seemingly lesser mortals - Edge, Yokozuna, Kurt Angle etc by ridiculous means and Angle has a similar history of winning such matches. The fact that that literally happened when they faced each other in 2000 solidifies the point in my mind.