Championship Region, Sixth Round: (1) John Cena vs. (11) Brock Lesnar

Discussion in 'Championship Region' started by klunderbunker, Apr 23, 2015.

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Who Wins This Matchup?

  1. John Cena

  2. Brock Lesnar

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    Ill remember that tidbit for the future whenever anyone mentions the likes of Heenan, Albano, Cornette, Hart, etc.....



    But first I am gonna call bullshit on that. If the advocate/manager is enough of a factor to be allowed at ringside in the tournament, then surely you should count all of what he does in favor of his wrestler. If interference can be taken into account, why ignore promos when comparing two opponents careers? Undertaker has barely said shit during his career & Kane was a mute for the first part of his- so does that mean we discount all those great Paul Bearer promos when talking about those two? Bearer was the shit & his mic skill certainly helped their characters, so are we not supposed to count that in their favor?


    Heyman and Lesnar are a package deal & it is just silly to ignore their dynamic.
     
    #51
  2. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    John Cena filled the hole Brock Lesnar left in much the same way Mighty NorCal's magnum dong fills a woman's vagina - i.e. like a round peg in a small round hole and you probably have to mash and shove and contort to even get the thing in there and I don't know how it's comfortable for anyone involved but then I wouldn't. To explain what I mean, here's a trimmed down version of a Tastycles post from three years ago:

    I searched "shiny pants" to find that post. It's always stuck with me.

    However, as someone who's been an advocate for Lesnar as long as Paul Heyman and has always found him rather entertaining, I will likely be voting for Lesnar, much as I feel Cena should win one of these tournaments. Did he? Has he? I should pay more attention.
     
    #52
  3. GI Cake

    GI Cake Thank God For Sodamy.

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    We've seen Goldberg beat a ton of people and look intimidating. Why isn't he in the finals while Lesnar is? Fuck all the people who bought into this worthless hype and fuck the people who think Brock Lesnar is a better wrestler than John Cena. I dislike Cena as much as the next guy but Cena has never once stunk up a Wrestlemania match as badly as Lesnar has. And at the end of the day Cena is just overall better than Lesnar. Fuck you Brock, fuck you with the stupid tattoo you printed on your chest.
     
    #53
  4. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    Two years ago, I could see your point (although Goldberg always does tend to do well). Now, I'd ask to see the footage of Goldberg getting a Scorpion Death Drop, an Atomic Leg Drop or even a Diamond Cutter, sitting up moments later and laughing.
     
    #54
  5. GI Cake

    GI Cake Thank God For Sodamy.

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    I wouldn't say Goldberg was laughing per se, but here he is taking at the very least two Hogan leg drops and then getting up to spear Hogan, stomp around and hit him with a Jackhammer.

    [YOUTUBE]gTDjV5WVCwY[/YOUTUBE]

    six minutes into this video, Goldberg no sells a piledriver, and a ton of Stinger splashes. Then later after Sting has the deathlock applied to Goldberg for a few minutes before Hogan interfered Goldberg stomps, spears then jackhammers.

    [youtube]ZW0x5PX7AX4[/youtube]
     
    #55
  6. Cereal Killer

    Cereal Killer Boy Better Know

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    Let's also take into account he was dominated in a match and still won, against Lesnar.

    No, it's not achamber match and it's also not exactly after the war with Bryan. Edge did not wrestle right before his match with Cena and in this situation, Lesnar did wrestle shortly before in what wasn't exactly a squash.

    Just because he defeated a bigger name (subjective) than Cena, that doesn't mean he'd beat Cena. I mean, Bryan has defeated Cena but he's also lost to Roman Reigns, a much smaller name than John Cena.

    Or maybe the problem is that people are giving Lesnar more credit than he deserves for his recent wins, for reasons explained.

    Countless times? I wrote that once and JMT had repeated it. That's twice.

    Height of both? John Cena has clearly passed his prime. He appears to be slower than before and he's losing more matches than before. I mean, he even lost by submission to Rusev recently.

    So just because he passed his prime, he can't win the WWE Championship? Hulk Hogan won the belt in 2002 and The Rock in 2013. If someone passes their prime, they're not always poor performers, they're just not as good as they once were.

    The fact that he was dominated shows he has indeed passed his prime. Such a thing had never happened to him beforehand. You pretty much proved the point.

    Why is Cena "almost good?" He's great. He's an excellent performer and one of the best of this generation. Why else would he be such a good draw?

    Don't tell me you think Lesnar is a better professional wrestler than John Cena. Cena is the better performer, his charisma is matched only by few, his character has helped shape the WWE into what it is today as their front man of their PG direction and he actually can cut a promo.

    What's ridiculous about it? He's been the top star of the company for 10 years and deservedly so.

    This damage carrying over to the next round factor is definitely playing a part but people seem to be thinking a bit too much on one particular match (SummerSlam) and seem to be forgetting that this is John Cena. He's one of the best athletes that's ever been in the WWE and is extremely resilient. He's won 15 world titles for crying out loud and outlasted 29 others in the Royal Rumble on two occasions. In the 3 videos Sly had posted, we can see that when Lesnar looks to be dominating a match, whether it be in the WWE or UFC, the tables can turn around quickly with Brock on the losing end. We saw a similar occurance at Wrestlemania where he was dominating for a long time and after a few hammers to the head, looked very vulnerable and was extremely close to losing. Bear in mind that this was Roman Reigns, not the 15 time world champion John Cena.

    You're right in the sense that managers are a huge part of certain individuals' careers, but it shows that there are just some things they can't do without them. Let's be real, if Heyman wasn't Lesnar's mouthpiece, he wouldn't be seen as what he is today. Why? Heyman is a huge part of his presence and why people see Lesnar the way they do so.

    Although, I guess Heyman could play a part in this matchup, interfering for the man that relies on him a lot.
     
    #56
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  7. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
    Staff Member Moderator

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    Gotta go with Lesnar as we've just seen him decimate Cena.

    In a lot of these sort of scenarios, the topic of whether or not a wrestler faces another wrestler while they're both in their prime is often brought up but it doesn't apply here. Both men are roughly the same age, both have been extremely dominant, both have suffered major injuries and NOBODY, no single wrestler, has been protected in WWE like John Cena has since Hulk Hogan back in the 1980s and it's still going on to this day. Would there have been a John Cena had Lesnar stayed? Absolutely, but I don't think he'd have been as dominant or would have been the undisputed, legitimate "face" of the company as he's been for the past 10 years.
     
    #57
  8. Dmbfantomas

    Dmbfantomas Bald Billy was Better

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    See, I've always felt the people who would be hurt more by Brock staying are Orton, Edge, and Batista. Cena was destined to be the biggest thing going. He looks like a superhero, can talk with the best of them, and continues to get better. Add in his passion level far surpassing everyone else; there was always going to be Cena Da Ultimate Good Guy. Brock would have just become a victim to him eventually.
     
    #58
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  9. Poop Master Flex

    Poop Master Flex Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    We're not the ones that are actually suggesting Cena can take Lesnar the same night he got through a 45 minute war with Bryan. Believe it or not Cena can't beat Lesnar after he has taken that kind of damage, not even in a kayfabe world. The only people that would actually go for that are Cena marks, the guy can barely survive him when he's at his absolute best, he has no chance after a war like that, none. I don't care if it's John Cena, I don't care if it's Hulk Hogan, I don't care if it's Inoki, you don't have Lesnar lose when he walks in with the advantage he's walking in with. I'm sorry but "it's Super Cena" isn't a good enough argument, not when your facing Lesnar and the worst part is you know it, you just don't want to admit it.
     
    #59
  10. Cereal Killer

    Cereal Killer Boy Better Know

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    Why not? It's the 15 time world champion and the guy who has been the face of the company for 10 years. He's lost very few times clean in his prime and yeah, it's Super Cena.

    Furthermore, it's not my only argument. As I said in my previous post, Brock has shown he can lose after showing to be very dominant throughout a match. Whether it be in the WWE or UFC. That could occur here.

    Another thing we can add is that generally, Cena is the better professional wrestler. We don't only have to base this on kayfabe terms so if we also include the draw factor, like I said before, it goes to Cena.

    No. If Cena was to lose, I'll admit it. Actually I was going to say Lesnar would definitely win after looking at the damage factor until I was convinced by others that Cena does indeed have a chance. I then said that I wasn't sure. Now I'm very close to voting Cena.
     
    #60
  11. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    I've been thinking on this one for a few days and I am going to have to go with Cena.

    I'm not just going to take Summerslam into account without taking into account what happened the next month. Cena had a better gameplan and had Lesnar on the ropes before interference. Cena would go into this match with the same plan. Now on to Lesnar's "dominance."

    I consider Cena's peak to be from WM 21 to WM 24. Taking out the three months that he was injured, he held the belt for roughly 30 of 33 months. That's just astounding when you think about it. I just can't see Lesnar's run from Summerslam 2013 to Summerslam 2014 as being dominant when he only wrestled four matches in that time frame. If Lesnar was competing every week and every PPV and still winning, I would give his "dominance" more credence. As it currently stands, I can't. Even taking Lesnar's first run into consideration, that run wasn't as good as Cena's.
     
    #61
  12. Papa Pillman

    Papa Pillman I've got more Ho's than Jim Duggan

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    Okay. This is fair.

    Yet replace Cena's name with Austin's and all points are still not arguable. But somehow you saw fit to vote for Lesnar to defeat Austin in the last round. And that was a fresh Austin against a fresh Lesnar. This is a still mostly fresh Lesnar, who controlled Austin throughout, matching up against a depleted Cena.

    What gives?

    To posters like NorCal, Nate, Thrash, MCMG, envious, DMBfan, and any others I may have missed, please justify the difference in voting Lesnar over Austin, but then voting for Cena in this round. In light of the situation this seems like a borderline hypocritical stance to take, but I'd be willing to hear out an explanation.
     
    #62
  13. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    Eat. Sleep. Ruin Professional Wrestling. Repeat.

    Brock Lesnar is the worst thing that has ever happened to professional wrestling, all he does is ruins the marketability of everyone else, whilst increasing that of his own. People can't ever see the wood for the trees, but here's the reality of it:

    The way Lesnar wrestled last year meant the WWE had literally no option but to put a rocket up Roman Reigns' anus and head for the stars. By demolishing Cena and beating the streak, Lesnar essentially said 'nothing in the WWE can hold a candle to me'. WrestleMania is supposed to be the feel good arc ending masterpiece. Instead it ended with the WWE's next top face being booed and a World Champion who last won clean in 2013. Lesnar's absolute inability to make any concessions to his style is the direct cause of that, and it should have been expected as the last time he was around the exact same thing happened.

    The thing is, they had to take the title off him because he had been stalling in the contract negotiations in the real world, no doubt holding out for more money because he's a mercenary.

    I don't know how many times I have to point out that when the WWE started backing Lesnar they lost half of their audience. Nor do I know how many times I have to point out that his abandonment of the WWE meant that until Cena saved the day we had three career mid carders pushing 40 years old given their first title reigns.

    Look, Cena saved this business. That is not hyperbole. Whether you like him or not, the WWE has gone from financial strength to strength under his stewardship. Cena has had better matches with many opponents and has drawn in a way that nobody else bar Hogan, Rock and Austin could even dream about.

    Look, Lesnar is very good at creating hype for Brock Lesnar. That's not the point of professional wrestling though. The list of wrestlers made by Cena is long and contains some greats. The list of wrestlers made by Brock Lesnar is a piece of paper with Brock Lesnar written on it. Furthermore, Lesnar doesn't do three appearances in one night, so there's no way he'd get past the semi final.

    Cena should win.
     
    #63
  14. Cereal Killer

    Cereal Killer Boy Better Know

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    I haven't voted but I am leaning towards Cena and I did indeed vote Lesnar over Austin.

    It's not hypocritical to vote Lesnar in that match and Cena in this one. The reason I voted Lesnar is because Austin is a brawler and a half. His moves consisted of punches, kicks and the stunner. Here's the catch, if you try and brawl with the former UFC World Heavyweight Champion, bad things are going to happen to you. Especially if he's bigger than you. This is one of the reasons Reigns was on the losing end during the first portion of their match and why John Cena lost to him at SummerSlam. They tried to brawl with him and you just can't do that.

    Brock Lesnar is also the mayor of Suplex City. Austin has had many neck issues which remained persistent during his career. If Brock, using that size and strength decides to do what you said in your first post of this thread, then Austin would certainly be injured and it would be very unlikely for him to keep on going.

    Cena on the other hand has shown he is extremely resilient, can handle the suplexes and has shown us all he can indeed wrestle smart and carefully in order to beat Brock Lesnar. Cena also used a lot of power and speed in the rematch in order to overcome Lesnar whenever he did, something he has more of compared to Austin.
     
    #64
  15. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

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    That's right Cena never had neck problems during his prime.

    But John Cena who already fought a war the same night could beat Lesnar.

    Now remind me again about how Cena's superior promo skills will help him win this match.
     
    #65
  16. Cereal Killer

    Cereal Killer Boy Better Know

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    Oh he did, but they weren't as bad as Austin's which were a huge part of the reason he retired. Cena still performs and survived Lesnar's suplexes.

    It adds to the fact that he's the better talent. Most of our criteria isn't based on who would win kayfabe wise but generally on who the better talent is.
     
    #66
  17. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

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    That never happened since it wasn't in Cena's prime. Cena's prime was at a point where he missed considerable time with neck problems.

    No, most of our criteria is based on what arguments favor the wrestler we favor. If it was really on greatest or talent this tournament would have basically the same results every year.

    The only exception are the gimmick matches and damage. Something Cena supporters are conveniently failing to do a good job addressing if addressing it at all.
     
    #67
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  18. Big Nick Dudley

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    Internet wrestling fans analyze everything to death. So much so they can't enjoy this current run Lesnar is having. Suplex City or whatever you want to call it is the most entertaining thing in wrestling. Why do I feel this way? I enjoy the story and I don't allow my wrestling "knowledge" to kill it.

    Wrestling, to me, is always more about the story being told than seeing how many moves someone can do, worrying about workrate, a wrestler's "dedication" to the business or any other bullshit that really has nothing to do with what is or isn't entertaining. There is no one in wrestling, right now, who does a better job telling a story than Brock Lesnar.

    Should this make you vote Lesnar? No, I just wanted to say that in response to all those constantly hating on Lesnar for odd, smarky reasons.
     
    #68
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  19. Nate DaMac

    Nate DaMac Fuck erbody but me

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    I've been relatively consistent. If the kayfabe arguments overwhelmingly favor one person, I tend to go with them. If it's close, I go with accolades.

    To me, Austin was over-matched in every way by Lesnar from a kayfabe perspective. Austin has him in the accolades department by a smidge but not enough to offset it.

    Despite what Lesnar's supporter's are trying to perpetuate, Lesnar does not have Cena's number in the kayfabe world. Neither guy has a victory over the other in their prime and they're 2-2 all time. In fact, Cena has shown that he can handle Lesnar in his current form (see Night of Champions) while Lesnar has never beaten Cena in his prime. Still, I call it even.

    Then I go to the accolades and well, :lmao:.

    Cena trounces Lesnar in that department.
     
    #69
  20. Savior of Silence

    Savior of Silence Occasional Pre-Show

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    That's all fine and good but that only works for the first 5 rounds. I personally vote based on kayfabe as the number one factor even though it's not a rule. In fact, the only real rules in this whole shebang are that match types are to play a factor in the voting.

    Now typically I would agree that a prime Cena stands a 50/50 shot against a prime Lesnar IF they're both at 100%. They're not at 100% and you cant possibly believe that a 75% Lesnar loses to a 50% or less Cena.

    Really, anybody that votes for Cena is subject to as much ridicule for being a fan-boy as those of us who voted Daniel Bryan last round.
     
    #70
  21. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    You mean where he handed John Cena his ass, or when he killed the hopes and dreams of fans by ending The streak? Cuz those deserve more credit than some people care to admit. They are both things people never really thought would happen & were shocked when it did.








    Clearly he would be a step down in the hype department, but it would in no way diminish his strength or ability. Without Paul, WWE would do what they do best and highlight his strengths while working around his weaker solo mic skills. But even when he does talk, he still cuts through the bullshit & gets the point across that he is just there to hurt you. Thats all he needs to accomplish really as long as he backs it up in the ring.

    Sure Heyman could interfere in this match, but why would he? Brock has shown he can handle a fully prepared Cena, so this match would be won by Lesnar just taking it to his opponent in a relentless fashion till he decides to stop the tour of Suplex City & go drink a beer from the skull of a baby deer.



    I think the reason some people are having a problem with this is that what Brock did to Cena was the equivalent of going for a prostate exam. You were told exactly what to expect by the doctor (or Heyman in this case) & were uncomfortable while it was happening but by then its too late. Sure you can pretend afterwards that it didnt really happen or wasnt that bad, but it did & it was You may not like it & will never admit it out loud to your friends, but you know that it had to happen eventually and are better off for it.

    So just like Cena did when he felt Lesnar's hot breath on the back of his neck between each suplex....quit fighting it, close your eyes & just let it happen.
     
    #71
  22. MCMG

    MCMG King Of The Ring

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    Because Lesnar and Cena have actually wrestled. There is evidence to look at like we saw with Bryan/Cena. You and I both know Bryan isn't in the same league as Cena but he almost defeated him based off one match. Indeed, I'm quite comfortable with the thought that if Brock and Austin were to ever meet then Lesnar would win.

    Cena and Brock are effectively 1-1. I'll point to Cena getting the better of the two in their NoC match. We know Cena is capable of beating Brock despite that impressive performance at Summerslam. Brock is a ruthless monster that would defeat almost anyone but given Cena has already defeated him once and came very close a second time Cena is one of the exceptions.

    Lesnar ending the streak was his big unthinkable accomplishment that sets him aside from everyone else but Cena has pretty much achieved it all. Indeed, all of Cena's accomplishments combined are more impressive than Brock ending the streak - something that can't be said about everyone.

    Cena has defeated Brock before and has achieved more in his career. In terms of championships/feuds/matches he has won there is just no comparison and there is enough about Cena to suggest he can defeat Brock.
     
    #72
  23. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    Here's the thing about explanations. Being prompted for an explanation puts the individual who was prompted in a defensive status, even though there's literally no way to request an explanation without doing so. You want an explanation to satisfy your curiosity and perhaps enhance your sense of reason.

    I am words on a screen. I go away at times, but today I've decided to come back. Who knows what corners of the universe I retreat to when I need a scapegoat for cowardly avoiding this forum which is in itself yet another scapegoat for whatever else I'm likely running from. Behold the wonders of the information age.

    I've found a window of time in among the mountain of indulgences I'm absolutely determined to exhaust until a slight reminder of them could cause me to regurgitate on whatever device I'm figuratively regurgitating these thoughts onto. How special are you Sir? You are the words on a screen that I've chosen to address. How lucky am I to have been prompted? This is the kind of serendipity that our generation considers a social luxury.

    Why did I not vote for Stone Cold Steve Austin?

    I didn't fucking feel like voting for Stone Cold Steve Austin. I've never liked Stone Cold Steve Austin, I'm not the kind of band-wagon jumper who falls in love with a performer simply on the basis of an obnoxious fad. I understand and accept his appeal, though personally I think he's a fucking moron who fell into a catchy niche that sold some shirts. He's had great matches, and he's had piss poor matches. He is a borderline average performer at best when it comes to executing spots in the ring, which is an idea that goes way the fuck over the head of your run of the mill pro-wrestling fan. Vince wanted the big time, and the fucking idiot market was the easiest one to lure into the arena. I would pay to watch Lance Storm wrestle before you could pay me to watch ten minutes of one of Stone Cold Steve Austin's fun little reality tv shows.

    Why did I vote for Brock Lesnar? Why vote at all?

    Because I would revel in watching Stone Cold Steve Austin, with all the bullshit fronting he gets to do as part of his fucking stupid reality shows, have to take some stiff bumps and lay the fuck down. As pro-wrestling fans, we accept what we're given and use that history as our basis for developing an understanding of what could happen next. I must be a pretty shitty pro-wrestling fan, because I really don't give a fuck that Stone Cold has coasted through a cozy career of steamrolling his challengers and would likely do the same if he ever got back into ring shape. I vote for what I want to see, I want to see the most arrogant gimmick of all time lay the fuck down.

    Why did I, someone who's railed on John Cena as gimmick that I hate more than anything else on WWE programming, vote for John Cena to defeat Brock Lesnar?

    I like a good story. I want you to tell me lies that are so fucking beautiful that they inspire me to do great things. I want my entertainment to conceive it's own amazing version of reality by breeding lies and bullshit. I want a fairy tale, and I'll stomp anyone into road paste if they try to take me from my happy place within a dark cave of denial where I shut my eyes tightly and bang my head against the rocks. I want to see the "good guys", as I imagine them to be, win. John Cena has NEVER been a "good guy" in my eyes, until now. I would have never given a fuck about Rocky if it weren't for Apollo Creed, I never gave a fuck about John Cena because he was handed his fame and it was NEVER appropriately challenged. This is that challenge, this is an man honestly asking himself if he's past his prime. Brock Lesnar is a challenger who represents the full potential of fate's cruelty. John Cena throws around the "Never give up" slogan, but he's never needed it like he does here. For the first time in his entire existence, sequestered to this obscure forum, I want to see John Cena win.
     
    #73
  24. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    So how in the hell did Lesnar win over Austin in a walk? If we're arguing that Cena's resume is far superior to Lesnar in terms of overall accomplishments, then Austin's dwarfs both of them COMBINED.

    That being said, I vote based on actual match outcomes and not resumes. In that case, Lesnar would beat Cena more times than not. That's how I voted. As far as overall body of work, Cena is only dwarfed by guys like Hogan, Austin, Flair, Inoki, etc. Cena moves the needle with the WWE and is Mr. Dependable when it comes to simply just being there when needed. Lesnar's a money mark who has a passion for money, not what he accomplishes.

    That being said, I can't vote Lesnar over Cena after watching Summerslam and the rematch aftewards.

    In this case though, good cases can be made for both, only using completely different criteria.
     
    #74
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  25. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    I think that John Cena would win because he is stronger and better looking than Brock Lesnar
     
    #75

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