Championship Region, Sixth Round: (3) Shawn Michaels vs. (4) Kurt Angle

Discussion in 'Championship Region' started by klunderbunker, Apr 23, 2015.

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Who Wins This Matchup?

  1. Shawn Michaels

  2. Kurt Angle

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    This is a sixth round match in the Championship Region. It is a standard one on one match, held at Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara, California.

    [​IMG]

    Rules: This is the first round of a three round, one night tournament. Damage taken will carry over to the next round and will be based on the margin and score. For example, if the match is 40-39, it was a back and forth war. If the score was 59-2, it was a squash. The amount of votes also determines the length of the match. For example, 20 votes would be a fairly short match while 100 would be a long, grueling war.

    [​IMG]

    #3. Shawn Michaels

    Round 5 Result: Defeated Bret Hart 51-38

    Vs.

    [​IMG]

    #4. Kurt Angle

    Round 5 Result: Defeated Undertaker 46-44



    Polls will be open for six days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

    Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.
     
    #1
  2. Nate DaMac

    Nate DaMac Fuck erbody but me

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    I'm definitely giving this to Angle. I still haven't forgiven Shawn for ruining the classic match they had at Wrestlemania by staying in the Ankle Lock for waaaaaaaay too fucking long.

    This is basically just a battle for second place anyway. Neither guy beats either guy in the other match.
     
    #2
  3. Rainbow Yaz

    Rainbow Yaz Sing about me, I'm dying of thirst
    E-Fed Mod

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    Shawn had a wider margin of victory and he is my favorite wrestler of all time, so he gets my vote.
     
    #3
  4. Loveless

    Loveless A Life In Monochrome

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    Ultimately the margin of victory is the deciding factor here, otherwise these 2 are too close to call. A significantly fresher HBK only needs a split second to catch a pretty battered Angle in the face and it's all over.
     
    #4
  5. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    *throws the rule book out the window*

    People, I implore you to...

    *loud crash is heard outside as the rule book just destroyed a car setting off a noisy alarm*

    Okay, look. I say that for this match-up we delve into the personal lives of both men to determine which one would be a better investment on part of the company. You have a big pile of money for lawsuits, knowing that both men would likely take their drug fueled win celebration to the local nunnery and cause some controversy. I'm picturing baked out of his skull mid 90's Shawn Michaels vs psycho stalker of black women late 2000's Kurt Angle.

    These two have their perceptions of reality ripped apart and clumsily sewn together by rampant substance abuse and batshit insanity, only to find themselves in the ring versus one another completely confused as to how their current circumstance came to pass. Shawn is escorted to the ring by Misty Stone and Carmen Hayes, Kurt Angle reeks of an aftershave that Shawn hasn't been allowed to huff in two years. These two find themselves wanted to destroy each other even more than they could ever unintentionally destroy their own reputations.

    It's a back and forth melee of epic spots, and in the end sensibility wins. Kurt shows his predictability and telegraphs his next move in ways that might actually be faster by sending signals through an actual telegram, and all Shawn needs is a split second while his spidey senses are heightened by the mountain of coke he whiffed before the match.

    Everything moves in slow motion as Shawn hits the superkick! Shawn hits the superkick right into Kurt Angle's arms, and the ankle lock is applied.

    Kurt Angle wins.
     
    #5
  6. Savior of Silence

    Savior of Silence Occasional Pre-Show

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    HBK is one of the few people in the business to have more than one "prime". During his 2nd prime, Mr. Wrestlemania lost to Kurt Angle on the grandest stage of them all and, under normal circumstances, would lose here as well.

    Having said that, these are not normal circumstances and HBK was in less of a war last round than Angle. HBK wins this match and goes on to lose to Cock (chest) Lesnar in the finals.
     
    #6
  7. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
    E-Fed Mod

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    Here's a quick rundown as I really don't care much for a match like this one this late into the tournament...

    Drawing power - Shawn was more marketable. Let's leave it at that.

    Charisma - Ultimately Shawn because of his performance credentials.

    Accolades - Kurt Angle. As far as sheer numbers are concerned.

    Longevity - Shawn spent longer as a major star in a bigger company. He wins.

    Consistency - Probably Angle when you look at what he's accomplished on a big match stage, but not many people can say they have a definitive winning record over Shawn.

    In ring ability - Subjectively I like Angle better, but objectively Mr. Wrestlemania earned that moniker for the countless classics he's put on. Point has to be Michaels.

    Overall Legacy - Shawn will always be remembered as one of the greatest performers ever. And while Kurt Angle is one of the toughest and most skilled men to ever be a pro wrestler he worked in an era where fans no longer perceive pro wrestling as being real. So that hurts him in comparison to Shawn, who accomplished more in his quest to simply entertain.

    I'm voting Shawn because he's the better pro wrestler and should win. I think Angle has the kayfabe advantage but I can't be bothered to look it up. In the finals Michaels will be crushed by either Cena or Lesnar, while Angle will fare a bit better against Cena and a 100% better against Lesnar. So I can't really be bothered to go out of my way to try and persuade one side over the other.
     
    #7
  8. Poop Master Flex

    Poop Master Flex Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    As pointed out this is a match for second place because neither guy is beating Cena or Lesnar here, it's just not realistic to think that. As a pro wrestler Shawn has a better and more storied career and he didn't take as much damage as Angle did in his first match of the night which helps give him an advantage. I'll probably go Shawn as he is greater but I could easily see Angle winning this one. When it all comes down to it though it doesn't really matter, Cena vs. Lesnar is what dictates the winner of this tournament.
     
    #8
  9. Mr. Artistic guy

    Mr. Artistic guy Better Off This Way

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    Bit of a crap semi-final this. Neither guy is worthy of getting to the end of a tournament like this but here they are. Both guy are known for putting on great matches. Both are known for vacating the top flight for their own issues. Neither was a competent top guy. It really comes down to a matter of preference this match.

    I would expect the edge to be given to Michaels in that respect, but for me it's going to Angle.
     
    #9
  10. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    While it's not showing in this thread, lately I feel like it's become the cool thing to say that HBK was overrated.

    I know that Shawn was a prick in his prime and that his drawing power as WWE Champion left a lot to be desired, but to me he's still one of the greatest ever to lace up the boots.

    Forget about drawing power... just look at his body of work, it's amazing.

    The Rockers - one of the greatest tag teams ever.

    Heel turn on Jannetty - One of the most memorable moments in WWE history.

    IC Champion - His match with Jarrett at In Your House is a top 5 IC Title match of all time. And he had plenty of other great matches as IC Champion.

    Babyface turn - Sid powerbombing him 3 fucking times. The Owen Hart enzuigiri... two of the most memorable moments in WWE history. Amazing. Shawn's the greatest seller pro wrestling has ever seen. No one can argue this.

    First WWE Title run - Forget what he drew, what about the quality of work? Winning the match in the Iron Man bout with Bret Hart, having an incredible match with Diesel the following month, killing it with Mankind, that hilariously entertaining match with Vader at Summerslam, and then having the greatest matches Sid has ever had. Just amazing stuff.

    DX - One of the greatest factions ever, could be argued the greatest faction ever. It should also be said that his work in DX helped lead WWE into the Attitude Era, their highest grossing period in company history.

    2002 Return - Amazing matches against HHH and then Jericho. Great matches with Benoit. Great matches with Angle. Great matches with Cena. Great matches with Edge. Great matches with Batista. More great shit with Jericho. Great matches with Ric Flair. Great matches with the Undertaker. So on and so on and so on.

    I mean, the quality of work truly is amazing.

    You look at Kurt Angle's career, and it just doesn't measure up. Kurt Angle is amazing and one of the greatest to ever do it as well, but he's been wasting away in TNA for pretty much the last 10 years. He's been in that two-bit company longer than he was in WWE. His prime in WWE was very short. And that breaks my heart because I am a HUGE fan of the guy, but it is what it is.

    Kayfabe wise, I mean... Angle beat Michaels at Wrestlemania, but then Michaels beat Angle at Vengeance. And those matches were at a time when HBK was entering his forties. So honestly, I give the kayfabe advantage to Shawn here. Let's face it, prime Shawn in the mid-nineties didn't lay down for anybody. :lmao:

    So yeah man, HBK is amazing and should go over here. I know it's very uncool to say that HBK is everything WWE says he is, but he is. I mean, the admiration from his peers speaks for itself. Every pro wrestler admires Shawn's in-ring ability. Every single one. Even those who despise him give him his credit when it comes to his quality of matches. The only exception is the precious IWC, who now needs to label HBK as an overrated hack who never drew a dime. I don't get it. But hopefully WZ Forums is smarter than that and gives HBK his justice here.
     
    #10
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  11. SSJPhenom

    SSJPhenom The Phenom of WZ

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    Does it really matter what we say argument wise? I mean people are ultimately going to always vote for which one they like better as opposed to which is the better option. IMO, neither Angle nor HBK should even be in this match. This should've been a match between Andre and the Ultimate Warrior. Come on people; just come the fuck on. In the Hart vs Warrior thread, I would've accepted the Hart faithful to just flat out say, "I like Hart better so I'm voting for him". As opposed to the shit arguments that people tried to put up for him as a reason why he should've won. Whether you're one of those that votes on the criteria or by kayfabe, there was no reason at all to vote for Hart over Warrior. NONE WHATSOFUCKINGEVER. Now that I've gotten that off of my chest.....

    HBK should win here. Angle's legacy pale's in comparison to HBK's. Also, HBK is the better performer.

    Vote HBK.
     
    #11
  12. Mighty NorCal

    Mighty NorCal SHALL WE BEGIN?

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    Because he is, to a horrifying degree.


    However, he is also the clear vote here.


    angle had a much tougher match, HBK has a much greater legacy.


    HBK is the obvious choice.
     
    #12
  13. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    When Kurt Angle first became world champion in 2000, the WWE enjoyed a highly successful year, both in business terms and in the critical reception of the product. Rewind 4 years to when Michaels became world champion, and the company nearly went out of business. That's a simplification, but the fact is neither of these men is a draw, but Michaels was actively unpopular at his peak.

    Either man is cannon fodder in the final, and the consensus is going to go with Michaels, but I don't really know why. Michaels "2nd career" involved him losing a lot of matches and his "1st career" is definitely not as impressive as Angle's. Given all of that and the fact that Angle won their most famous encounter, admittedly when they were both past their prime, I'm going Angle.
     
    #13
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  14. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    Angle should take this, but there is a big factor to consider. That superkick. HBK may be called overrated, but you cannot deny that his ability to pull that off at an opportune time will seal the deal like few others. Angle is definitely winded already & one slow step or mistake and he will take that kick to the face. Question is, will Angle get up and rally?

    I think so. Kickout at 2 9/10ths, drop the straps and go for the kill. Im voting Kurt Angle.
     
    #14
  15. Dmbfantomas

    Dmbfantomas Bald Billy was Better

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    I'm going to vote for Kurt Angle for three (mostly) objective reasons.

    1. Kurt Angle has won a King of the Ring tournament before, so he is used to a professional wrestling tournament setting where there is an element of importance (to say nothing of the legitimate Olympic Gold Medal he won in a similar enviornment).

    2. He is just as able to win the match by submission as he is by pinfall. His arsenal is far more expansive and dangerous as compared to Shawn Michaels who mostly has the Superkick (which is admittedly deadly, but is also just as liable to miss slightly and be turned into an ankle lock).

    3. His pain tolerance is legendary. We obviously all know about the story of him winning an Olympic Gold Medal with a BROKEN FREAKING NECK! I think he will be able to tolerate the damage he received in the match with Taker better than Shawn will from his much-closer-than-people-are-recognizing match with Bret.

    I've never really liked HBK, and I've always loved Kurt. I'm sure some of that personal bias seeped through in making my decision, but I think the Alien Test would pick Kurt and that's what I'm going with.
     
    #15
  16. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    I've watched a lot of Kurt Angle matches in my day, and it's easy to say that he's one of the best of all time. Unfortunately, it's also easy to say that Kurt is one of the most predictable wrestlers of all time. How many times have you seen this match:

    Suplex, suplex, suplex, Angle Slam for two, more suplexes, missed moonsault, ankle lock, ankle lock, another Angle Slam for two, ankle lock, go to the finish.

    He does almost the EXACT SAME MATCH almost every time. If you've seen roughly three Kurt Angle main event matches, you've seen them all. Yes they're all entertaining, but they're also easy to plan for. Shawn is more than smart enough to plan ahead and more than versatile enough to come up with a battle plan to stop Angle and advance to the finals.
     
    #16
  17. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

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    I'm in the mood to play fantasy booker tonight so here is how I would see this one night affair go - Brock Lesnar crushes two absolute legends and goes into the final pretty unscathed. 90's heel dick HBK yet again screws over Bret Hart and goes into his semi final relatively fresh to his opponent. 00s American Hero Kurt Angle squeeks past the Dead Man and in the MotN manages to overcome Shawn despite all the shenanigans... but again it is an absolute beast of a match and Kurt looks like he'll have no chance against BRRRRRRRROCK in the final.

    And here is were I want to plant the seed for the final (even if it's Michaels)... WrestleMania XXX is the template. A battered bruitilised Daniel Bryan overcame 3/4s of Evolution to win the WWe WHC. Here (in my ideal tournament) the man who won the Gold Medal with a broken frickin neck overcomes fatigue and pain and ultimately makes Suplex City tap like a lil bitch. Oh that's real - that's DAMN REAL!!!
     
    #17
  18. zhaff2004

    zhaff2004 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Lets go ahead and ignore the fact that Kurt has won an olympic gold medal with a broken neck, lets also ignore the fact that Kurt is a former KOTR winner giving him a familiarity in this kind of scenario, the fact that we can't ignore is that Kurt Angle made Shawn Michaels tap out at Mania 21 in a classic. Shawn will give it his all but at the end of the day, the Olympic Gold Medalist prevails yet again.
     
    #18
  19. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    This is one of those lines that pops up every so often and makes me shake my head. This would be their second match in one night. It's wrestling twice, not ordering Egyptian food in Spanish. Everyone remaining is a former multiple time World Champion. Just because Angle and Lesnar won a tournament once in their careers doesn't give them some huge advantage.
     
    #19
  20. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    This isn't really relevant to the discussion at hand (since when has that stopped anyone in the WrestleZone tournament?) but I don't think there's been another person in history who has taken to professional wrestling as quickly, and as well, as Kurt Angle did. Certainly nobody in my lifetime. Yes, alright, he was an amateur wrestler beforehand but, aside from the obvious physical demands, that's like saying being a really good ping pong player means you'd be suited to a career in musical theatre. Fans of Japanese wrestling may disagree. To paraphrase Steve Austin on his podcast:

    "Buy these pills and they'll give you a massive erection. Kurt Angle is the most naturally gifted professional wrestler who I've ever come across. I've got really clever rats on my ranch. Heh-ho!"

    For a man to debut against Meat and then to be world champion within a year and for nobody to blink an eye is testament to how god damn good Kurt Angle was. The man was a legitimate Olympic gold medalist and, as cringeworthy as the term often is, American hero and got people to boo him immediately.

    As for who to vote for: it's half a dozen of one and six of the other.
     
    #20
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  21. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
    Staff Member Moderator

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    This is one of those matches that could go either way.

    HBK & Angle faced off at WrestleMania XXI 2005 in a match that flat out stole the show, with Angle scoring the win via the Ankle Lock. They met again in a rematch from WrestleMania at the Vengeance ppv in June 2005 in another match that stole the show with HBK picking up the win with Sweet Chin Music. Either match was a genuine match of the year candidate, I think their WM bout was named MOTY by some publications.

    Any argument that can be brought up by someone in favor of Angle can be matched by someone in favor of Michaels and vice versa, so I think it all really boils down to who you enjoyed more. For me personally, I went with HBK though I can't knock anyone for going with Angle.
     
    #21
  22. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

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    King Of The Ring 1993: Bret Hart goes through two hard hitting exhausting battles against Razor Ramon (10:25) and Mr Perfect (18:56) while the monster Bam Bam Bigelow only faced one opponent (Jim Duggan) who he squashed in 4:59. In the final Bigelow brutilised Hart in another 18 minute match... but Bret won out to become KotR.

    WrestleMania XXX: Daniel Bryan goes into the match with an injured and taped shoulder and has the cerebral assassin go after that in a war that lasts 26minutes and has an epilogue of a post match attack on the injured shoulder. Bryan goes into the final exhausted and badly injured and only has to take on the undisputed WHC and the Royal Rumble Winner who not only hold 18 World Championships between them but who are stablemates. D-Bry overcomes the two fresh main eventers, outside interference from Trips, a biased referee and another excruciating 23 minutes to claim the championship.

    On top of winning a Gold Medal with a broken fricken neck, Kurt Angle has wrestled three times on at least two occasions in the WWe and has had his arm raised in the final match both times. Kurt Angle is 3:2 against Brock Lesnar in 1 on 1 televised bouts. http://www.cagematch.net/?id=112&view=search&sParticipant1=Kurt+Angle&sParticipant2=Brock+Lesnar&sParticipant3=&sParticipant4=&sEventName=&sEventType=TV-Show%7CPay+Per+View&sDateFromDay=01&sDateFromMonth=01&sDateFromYear=2000&sDateTillDay=31&sDateTillMonth=07&sDateTillYear=2007&sPromotion=&sLocation=&sArena=&sRegion=&sMatchType=&sConstellation=Singles&sWorkerRelationship=Any&sFulltextSearch=

    Brock Lesnar looks pretty certain to be one finalist in this year's WZT and looks like he'll have had to pretty easy matches getting there. I have seen people claiming that whoever wins this bout will get pasted in the final. Balls! The fact that Lesnar has went over Austin and is currently going over Cena and Hulk Hogan was defeated by Yokozuna means we are far from working on GOAT parameters and history shows that Kurt has more than a fighting chance.

    For anyone wondering why Kurt should go over HBK, we need look no farther than simple kayfabe booking logic. Kurt has had a war with the Taker, Shawn had a relatively easy time against Bret. A close match here with Angle just edging through sets up a final that can echo Hart and Bryan.

    Vote Kurt, make an old man happy.
     
    #22
  23. Lowdown

    Lowdown Ooh baby I like it roooaaaaw!

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    This is evenly matched without a doubt. I think Michaels had a slightly more storied career that Angle, but I voted for the latter. There's no logic or reason behind my choice other than I was more of a fan of Angle over HBK. But either choice would be logical.
     
    #23
  24. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    It's cool to say and not back it up. In my case, I've backed up numerous times why HBK gets far more credit than he deserves.

    As an in-ring worker? Few touch him. That can be agreed upon.

    Angle's is just as good, though... plus an Olympic gold medal.

    Duuuuuude! Not even funny. A team that ripped off the Rock n' Roll Express and didn't do even half what they did in terms of tag team wrestling isn't nera the top of that list. How many WWF Tag Team title reigns did the Rockers have?

    Agreed. Very well done.

    I need to watch this match. I'm in 1995 right now, so I'll make it to this match soon.

    Not that memorable. That entire era was largely forgotten. But Sid botched one of those powerbombs and fucked HBK up, too. And I agree with the Own Hart inziguri. That stuck with me for a long time.

    But that's part of it. He has great matches, but in terms of drawing a house, he couldn't really do so without Undertaker. His in-ring work was at his peak though.

    Angle's matches with Austin, HHH, Jericho, Edge, Lesnar, and numerous others can go in that same category.

    ...then he left right when it was nearing the pinnacle. And who was there to help keep that fuel burning when HBK was gone? Angle.

    This is a great point. Comes back and isn't sure he's going to be the same, and is somehow BETTER than he was in 1995.

    So was the quality of work on Kurt Angle.

    It does... and more than one thinks, too.

    It's true (pun intended) that he's wasted more than a decade in TNA, but that doesn't change how he's managed to keep TNA from going under. That's a feat upon itself.

    If Angle were going to win, and HBK decided to be a prick, don't think Angle wouldn't have stretched his ass in a minute. He would have and done it gladly. Also, HBK's greatest all-time matches are in his 40's. So Angle still beat a really good HBK on the biggest stage of them all.

    Does he deserve to win? After being shafted by Jushin Thunder Liger, maybe he's owed one. But Angle doesn't get a whole lot of love on here mainly due to him still being in TNA when many expected him to be back in WWE in short order. But remember that Angle was WWE Champion in an era with Austin, Rock, Mankind, HHH, Jericho and Undertaker. He even beat HBK at Wrestlemania when HBK was still at the top of his game.

    So I won't lose my mind if HBK wins here, but I want to make sure Angle gets his just desserts here.

    It's true.
     
    #24

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