Cena becoming a slightly better wrestler?

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Jeese, Cena uses a couple of basic moves and a thread is made speculating if he's getting better as a wrestler? What a world.

No he's not getting better as a 'wrestler'. He's just a sports entertainer. Kurt Angle, Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe - those guys can wrestle.

A few people have brought up his first match against Angle and how he put on a decent display. I see there is also a thread about if/should Lashley returns to the WWE just now which gave me an idea;
if WWE did take Lashley back, would a feud with Cena maybe FORCE Cena to revert back to a wrestling style? Lashley is a similar size and had some pretty good mat skills, is this the only way we'll see Cena wrestle again?

Cena has no wrestling style to revert back to because he never strayed away from it. You do remember that Lashley already had a feud with Cena in 2007. His match with Cena was the best WWE match Lashley has ever had. Cena is the best out there and has been for a while.

 

[CabanaBoomBoom514]

I think John Cena is a decent wrestler already and had some really good matches in his career. The moveset he has now doesn't annoy me, but I'm also open about him using new moves. So using the dropkick or diving leg drop bulldog or any other can be considered a slight improvement if he keeps using them each match. Using basic moves or wrestling holds at some part of his matches is cool with me if it makes him a better wrestler.

 

[Donavin Roger]

Umm exuse me? did you sill call him the same good wrestler? thats a joke, cena never was a good wrestler, he came to wwe he brought intensity and passion and BLAH BLAH. ok, he had a good gimmick, good mic work, now that does not make him a good wrestler, wrestling is an art form of in-ring ability with a little bit of character put into the mix, john cena, I'll admit he is improving but that can't save him now, until he changes his superhero gimmick or turns heel i'll be happy

 

[Slyfox696]

Umm exuse me? did you sill call him the same good wrestler? thats a joke, cena never was a good wrestler, he came to wwe he brought intensity and passion and BLAH BLAH. ok, he had a good gimmick, good mic work, now that does not make him a good wrestler, wrestling is an art form of in-ring ability with a little bit of character put into the mix, john cena, I'll admit he is improving but that can't save him now, until he changes his superhero gimmick or turns heel i'll be happy

Yes, he is STILL the best wrestler in the WWE. You said wrestling is an art, and you are right. You said the art has to do with in-ring ability, and that's correct.

However, I bet you don't have the faintest idea of how to define in-ring ability. Because if you did, you'd understand why John Cena is a great wrestler and has been forever.

 

[Lionshare]

For anyone saying Cena has only five moves...STOP IT. So does Triple H, so does Randy Orton, and so does Sheamus. Cena is a great Entertainer and can put on five star matches each day of the week if need be. Cena is fine the way he is. Adding a drop kick doesn’t make him a better wrestler. It's drop kick for fuck's sake. Cena is great in and out of the ring and each and every one of us has to respect him. Cena CAN wrestle. He can mat wrestle and entertain us all with his abilities. John Cena does not hold back and he is a fine wrestler.

As for the sudden boost of energy after all the punishment, look at Shawn Michaels...Shawn would get the living shit kicked out of him and all of a sudden hit that flying forearm, knip-up, atomic drop, elbow, tune up the band, Sweet Chin Music. It's the same with Cena.

Are you for real? 5 star matches each day of the week?

Srsly, back on the topic, i think he is just fine, he gets the job done, and the kids are happy. Yeah he could wrestle better than now but this is how is he's being booked and how he wants to wrestle (such a big star as him could tell the writing team to stick it of he wasnt happy the way he is booked), and hust because he did a dropkick here and there doesnt mean anything.

 

[mrbrownstone]

This is really a stupid question, no he is not getting better because Cena has been a great wrestler for years and adding a dropkick to his repertiore is not going to have an effect on that, it's only a dropkick for fucks sake. If you don't believe me that he has been a great wrestler for years and think he only has five moves (which is bullshit by the way but i'll save that for another thread) then I will give you some proof. Look at his match with the Miz a couple of weeks ago on Raw now both of these guys are supposed to be crap in the ring and yet they managed to have a great match that was IMO match of the week. That must have been a fluke though so look at his match against Gabriel from Raw now Gabriel is still very green and is still just a rookie and Cena is a "shit wrestler" so this should be a terrible match yet somehow they pulled off a great match. That isn't all though Cena has had great matches with the likes of HBK, Hunter, Orton, Jericho, Edge and JBL but i'm sure they all carried him to such great matches . Anyway as you can see suggesting that by adding some more moves to his repertiore Cena will be a better wrestler is fucking stupid as he has always been a great wrestler and will continue to be weather he uses 5 moves or 50.

 

[ThePh3nomonal1]

I honestly don't know why WWE still let's Cena call the 5knuckle shuffle the 5 knuckle shuffle 'cause last time I checked wasn't it slang for mastebation. I am pretty sure it is.

But onto your question, yes I do think Cena is attempting to increase his moveset. But then again he has been since around WM 23, sooo don't get your hopes up for a drastic change. That is of course if he doesn't turn heel, because if that were to happen he would have to learn new moves because he could not be able to get dominated a whole match and comeback at the end and win because that isn't what heels do.

BTW that dropkick was fairly impressive but I remember he used to do it back in 03.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

John Cena has been the best wrestler in the WWE for the past several years. It's funny though it takes him doing a few different moves for people to think of him the way he should have been thought of years ago.

The number of moves a person makes has nothing to do with how good of a wrestler one is. Cena is a great worker, has been for years, but it has nothing to do with the number of moves he may or may not use.




Daniel Bryan is a mediocre wrestler. Samoa Joe is a terrible wrestler. The fact you think those guys can wrestle show you're just another wrestling mark. You've bought into the theory that a "wrestler" is someone who does holds and locks, which is the image wrestling promotes. You've been worked.

I don't mind being referred to as a 'wrestling mark' because, funnily enough, the wrestling is what I'm fond of, something I don't see from Cena. And I'd guess it'd be accurate to refer to you as a 'Cena mark' right?

I'm not going to go into the whole '5 moves of doom' thing, but compared to Joe, Cena has a thinner repertoire to call upon and I like seeing a range and diversity of moves in a wrestling match. I don't think that's so crazy to look for in matches

 

[Ultra Awesome]

Honestly, does it reall matter how many moves John Cena has in his repertoire? To be honest, I believe it really doesn't.

What I see that the many people fail to comprehend is that this is the WWE we are talking about, not rastling---WORLD WRESTLING ENTERTAINMENT---The place where if you are not entertaining than you don't belong there...

All that really should matter is wether John Cena is entertaining both inside the ring and outside the ring. Whether it be cutting promos or putting on a match. If John Cena is good at both, than I believe that makes him a good wrestler. Which in reality, (or at least in my opinion), John Cena truly excels at both.

The "Cena only knows 5 moves" comments are really starting to annoy me. So what if his move-set is limited? (I strongly disagree on that by the way). In a place like the WWE, that doesn't matter. The fact that some wrestlers have a more open variety of move-sets does not really mean much; it only adds more of a unique style in order to entertain us.

But it goes without saying, John Cena is one hell of a wrestler as he is both entertaining in the ring and at cutting promos. And like I said, That's really all that matters.

 

[burnout4200]

I'm not into Cena much but the guy is strong and athletic. He could easily be a great wrestler if he was allowed or wanted to. He's actually rather fast for his size as well. John Cena has all the athletic tools to break out of his mold but less is more. Noone would care about that drop kick if he did exciting moves all the time. Now whenever he does something different the kids get a wow moment. Have him go all out and do 50 moves per match and it would end up being expected of him instead of a surprise. Wow moments make wrestling and even though this may be our least favorite way of getting those moments it still works.

 

[Skillz]

If you think adding a dropkick to your moveset makes you a better wrestler, you really know nothing about what makes a good wrestler. Moves have fuck all to do with quality wrestling, but unfortunately most "smart" wrestling fans are too stupid to understand that. He could add 50 moves to his moveset and it wouldn't mean a damn thing. If moves are all you care about when watching wrestling, you really don't have the slightest clue as to what REALLY makes good wrestling.

Cena has easily been the best wrestler in the WWE for a good half-decade now. His in-ring skills aren't improving because they are already top-notch.

 

[Lionshare]

Cena has easily been the best wrestler in the WWE for a good half-decade now. His in-ring skills aren't improving because they are already top-notch.

Excuse me, although john cena is an ok wrestler and better entertainer, since this is sport entertaiment we are talking about, but to say his in-ring skills are top notch is going overboard. In order to have great in.ring skills you need to execute your moves with little to none flaws, and since he turned face all cena has done is half assed versions of prior wrestling moves, i dont think his in-ring work is that good, just check out how a fisherman suplex is done and then tell me that cena is a great wrestler.

 

[harrythem]

Cena himself said, in Legendary (yes I watched, and enjoyed that film) that there are three things that make the perfect wrestler:

Offence
Defence
Psychology

Cena will always be a terrible wrestler until he masters psychology because Dead-Sell Cena to Cartoon Comeback Cena is just useless.

He could be as talented as Benoit or Angle but, until he learns the psychology they mastered, he'll always be classed as terrible in my book

 

[Ultra Awesome]

Cena himself said, in Legendary (yes I watched, and enjoyed that film) that there are three things that make the perfect wrestler:

Offence
Defence
Psychology

[...]

He could be as talented as Benoit or Angle but, until he learns the psychology they mastered, he'll always be classed as terrible in my book

The difference here is you are base-ing this off a rastling type of situation. You know, olympic wrestling etc, etc...

Like I said in my previous post, this is the WWE we are talking about. Psychology really doesn't have much to do with the WWE as it is, well, basically...all acting. The wrestling shown in WWE (TNA if you want to count it) is all pretty much fake. Sure, the [flashy] moves are real and well, flashy; but really that is just the cream on top in a match. So really, your point of psychology is moot.

A good wrestler is an athlete that puts on great matches and quite frankly, John Cena does. Whether you look it or not is just your opinion.

Cena will always be a terrible wrestler until he masters psychology because Dead-Sell Cena to Cartoon Comeback Cena is just useless.

How is 'Dead-Sell Cena" even relevant to psychology?! Or do we just have different views of psychology?...

 

[harrythem]

Well even if we're going to base WWE on acting Cena still sucks and I stick by DSC to CCC as one of the worst points about it. I've sat there with kids watching wrestling and when Cena does his schtick it's completely made them realise wrestling is fake (always a sad day, like the big santa secret).

As for how psychology fits into DCC? The fact that he's so beaten up that he can't do anything then, when CCC attacks (about halfway through the match normally) he neglects to sell the effects of the beating that led to him being almost dead in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, Cena can have good matches with the right wrestler. But, in general, when it's his turn to lead the dance he, 9/10, does a poor job (except, strangely, against Great Khali and Bobby Lashley, he did a great job leading them)

It's nice to see Cena spice things up but, let's face it, until he learns how to throw a more convincing punch or do the basic move set he does with any level that helps the fan suspend belief, it'll just add more sloppy moves that ruin the enjoyment of his matches to fans.

I honestly think if he worked on the basics then the tools are there for him to have good matches all the time, and remove the last of the fans that shit on him too.

 

[daniel bryan mark]

I think he is finally using a few new moves. He is starting to become a wrestler, not just a superstar. He still has a long way to go, but he is improving.

John is good on the mic, but the promos are stupid. Look at some of Cena's older promos. He has skill.

 

[Slyfox696]

I don't mind being referred to as a 'wrestling mark' because, funnily enough, the wrestling is what I'm fond of, something I don't see from Cena. And I'd guess it'd be accurate to refer to you as a 'Cena mark' right?

If you knew what the word "mark" meant, you'd realize why you sound silly here.

You're a mark because you buy the story that's being sold. Being a mark has nothing to do with being a fan of something. If I were a fan of Cena, then I'd be a "Cena fan". Sure, we all allow ourselves to be taken in a degree, but your insistence that a good wrestler does certain moves and holds show that you've taken it a step further.

Using your apparent way of thinking, Angle's a "wrestler" because he does hammerlocks and has a submission finisher right? So what would that make the Great Khali? Is he not a wrestler? Of course he is.

EVERYONE who gets in the ring to pretend fight is a wrestler. The style of offense they use has nothing to do with how good of a wrestler they are, and for you to insinuate so, shows you've been "worked" by the business to think that a "real" wrestler is someone like Kurt Angle, and that someone like Khali is not a wrestler, but instead is a brawler.

Do you really think Cena can't do armbars and ankle locks? Hell, I can do that stuff, it's actually some of the easiest moves to pull off. You're a mark because you've been convinced, or worked, to think the only type of "real" wrestler are people like Angle.

That's what makes you a mark; you're someone who can be manipulated by the show to think what the show wants you to think. Like I said, we all allow ourselves to be taken to some degree, but some of us also know where the line is.

You don't seem to.

I'm not going to go into the whole '5 moves of doom' thing, but compared to Joe, Cena has a thinner repertoire to call upon and I like seeing a range and diversity of moves in a wrestling match. I don't think that's so crazy to look for in matches

So now what you're saying is the ONLY thing that makes a good wrestler is the number of offensive moves he puts in his match? Do you realize how silly that is? Not only the fact that the number of moves done has nothing to do with the quality of a wrestler, but the fact you're completely ignoring things like psychology, work rate, selling, charisma, etc.

If the only thing you look for is a range of moves, then I suggest you send away for a wrestling training DVD. I bet they do a lot of moves on one of those. If that's what you look for in matches, then don't even bother with a live product, just watch a training DVD.

Cena himself said, in Legendary (yes I watched, and enjoyed that film) that there are three things that make the perfect wrestler:

Offence
Defence
Psychology

Cena will always be a terrible wrestler until he masters psychology because Dead-Sell Cena to Cartoon Comeback Cena is just useless.

He could be as talented as Benoit or Angle but, until he learns the psychology they mastered, he'll always be classed as terrible in my book

Are you really comparing a movie about freestyle wrestling to a character in professional wrestling? Do you even know what psychology in wrestling is and how it is applied?

 

[Tougie]

As much as I hate to admit it he has improved as a wrestler and has solid skills. Is it the most intertaining or eye catching? No, not at all. Yes he does the same moves all the time and relies on them compared to someone like Triple H who does a deversity of moves as well as his key moves. He's always had the mic skills so all he has had to do is improve in ring and he has. In the past has he been carried in his matches? Yes, but who hasent. And he's learned from some of the best (HHH, HBK) in the psycology department.

So yes he is a better wrestler and has vastly improved, he just isn't entertaining to me at all. And in no way can hold my attention.

 

[xBANEx]

Bah, this, again?

Cena using extra moves outside of his current move-set does NOT making a "better wrestler." He is not "starting" to get anything because he already has it. It has to do with more than just the number of moves you use. Ring psychology, selling of moves, charisma/promo skills, etc.

What doesn't he have? Exactly. It may or may not be disputed that he doesn't have promo skills but hey, that's an opinion, not a fact. You're NOT going in the main event if you have NO promo skills whatsoever (unless it's a special occasion like Benoit or Bret. They were so good in other areas they didn't need them.)

"No-sell Cena!" No different than Hulk Hogan was back in the day, bet none of you bitched or complained back then. Get beat on, sell, hulk up, win. Same formula. Cena is this era's Hogan. Accept it already, isn't going anywhere.

"Five moves of doom!" Every professional wrestler has this, stop picking and choosing who to complain about. Austin, HHH, Taker, HBK, Bret, etc., they all have the same five moves to end the match. "It's more obvious now!" You're grown now. I'd hope by now you'd know what was coming, doesn't make it any less entertaining.

I'm by no means a Cena fan, I hate him to be honest, but that doesn't make him "bad" no more than people hating Jericho or someone of the same caliber.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

I know I won't be making new friends here for the ones that are anti-Cena, but seriously John Cena has always been a practical wrestler. Yes, I said practical wrestler not overtly technical like Angle or Benoit were. He has been a good wrestler thus far and there is always going to be room to improve (that goes for everyone). If it has taken people now to realize Cena's potential then I feel sorry for future generations of wrestling fans.

John Cena has always been more than a look and a catchphrase. The guy actually steps into the ring and gets huge pops from the crowd.

 

[Shay]

Meh... Who cares he's already at the top and has nowhere to go so why bother actually trying to wrestle well?? I'm not saying the guy cant do anything he can do an ok promo even if it's stupidly childish and makes no sense. He has his Five moves of doom (I believe that's what its called here) and you say he's getting better....How?? as my first point stated he is already at the top he is a 9 time champion ME wrestlemania a couple of times walked out champion more often than not in his championship bouts and is the "Face" of wwe. So no I dont think that He's actually trying to wrestle better and I would'nt try to wrestle better if I was him Because he's already at the top as a saying goes "If it aint broke, Dont fix it." Vince likes him, that's all he needs another way to get to the top is to go for the daughter like HHH did and it worked for him.

 

[Morpheus101]

Cena gets bashed far too much, IMO. Granted, he's not a "technical" wrestler, but he isn't half bad either and has pulled off some incredible matches in his illustrious career. To be honest, he seems to have a far greater arsenal of moves than Rock or Stone Cold ever did. I recall both these guys getting the same criticism - it's all BS, basically. Cena is also a very tidy wrestler and botches very few moves. He can beat you via pinfall or submission. He looks like he takes good care of his body.

Although I would rather see Cena turn heel and am not a particular big fan of his because I don't meet the general demographic of a typical Cena fan, I do admire him, because he has always given 100% and has always stayed true to WWE and his fans. Cena is where he is because he deserves to be because he gives so much. Sometimes I just wish that people would get off the guy's back and cut him some slack and appreciate what he has done for the wrestling business.

 

[Morpheus101]

I think he is finally using a few new moves. He is starting to become a wrestler, not just a superstar. He still has a long way to go, but he is improving.

John is good on the mic, but the promos are stupid. Look at some of Cena's older promos. He has skill.

He still has that skill too. You can't blame the man for being molded the way that he's been molded, i.e. to be a role model for kids. What is he supposed to say to Vince McMahon, "no"?? He does his job, he plays his role and he plays it well, whether you like his character or not.

 

[Dibil]

Has anyone noticed John Cena's improved skills in the ring recently? He has used dropkicks,Bodyscissors and inverted suplexes.Watch these matches for proof

Justin Gabriel vs John Cena
Nexus vs John Cena (Gauntlet Match)

 

[manstis1804]

Cena himself said, in Legendary (yes I watched, and enjoyed that film) that there are three things that make the perfect wrestler:

Offence
Defence
Psychology

Cena will always be a terrible wrestler until he masters psychology because Dead-Sell Cena to Cartoon Comeback Cena is just useless.

He could be as talented as Benoit or Angle but, until he learns the psychology they mastered, he'll always be classed as terrible in my book

You're invoking Angle on the psychology point...kills the argument man. Kurt Angle is nasty in the ring, but his matches notoriously lack psychology. Its moves back and forth the whole match, with the other guy never getting a convincing edge on Angle, while his moves progress exactly the same each time. The only difference is how many finishers it takes to put his opponent away and how many Kurt kicks out of. Angle can be called "better" than Cena in the ring because he's more intense and more physically talented, but not because he's got better psychology.