Zack Ryder: Is He THAT Good?

[mikde_]

i find it kinda funny that people in here are saying they cant see Zack ever being in the main event!

When cena debuted with his zero personallity and generic trunks did of any of you say..."Ya know what, this guy will be the face of the company for many years to come and become world champ many many times."

When you saw Austin as the hollywood blonde in WCW or as The Ringmaster in WWF did you say..."This guy will change the face of wrestling and become the biggest draw the industry has ever seen."

The Miz is another prime example.

Truth is, we cant jump to conclusions about someone because anything can happen in the world of wrestling. People these days seem to judge where a wrestler will be in 5 years based on his current gimmck or form. All i know is that if Zack ends up in the main event its because he deserved it.

 

[theairforce1]

Like anyone else in the business, you gotta give them a chance. I can see the guy filling a "Santino" type role as the funny guy, but i have seen him wrestle live a few times, as well as on TV, and hes nothing special. I don't know why the IWC is in such a craze over this guy (and Daniel Bryan too, but I won't go into that here...and awaiting millions of negative feedback as well lol), if you ask me, he is a blatant Jersey Shore and "My New Haircut" youtube video (if you havent seen it, go search it on youtube now!) ripoff. Blatant as in blatant to the point where its boooorring. I will give the guy credit for making his own youtube show and getting over without the E, but come on.... do something original.

 

[mikde_]

if you ask me, he is a blatant Jersey Shore and "My New Haircut" youtube video (if you havent seen it, go search it on youtube now!) ripoff. Blatant as in blatant to the point where its boooorring.

Truth is that zack was doing the whole shore gimmick way before Jersey Shore started broadcasting. And its not so much a gimmick as such, he is kinda the same in 'Real Life' but just not as cheesy.

 

[theairforce1]

Truth is that zack was doing the whole shore gimmick way before Jersey Shore started broadcasting. And its not so much a gimmick as such, he is kinda the same in 'Real Life' but just not as cheesy.

Even if that is the case, he wasnt popular until that jersey shore fad became a pop culture phenomenon. Now hes riding that success. Without that, what do you have? Nothing. He is not original, average in the ring.

 

[mikde_]

Even if that is the case, he wasnt popular until that jersey shore fad became a pop culture phenomenon. Now hes riding that success. Without that, what do you have? Nothing. He is not original, average in the ring.

Well does that not mean then he was ahead of his time if he was doing something before it gained wide spread success? And its not really about being original considering that it isnt as such a gimmick...He is from Long Island, He actually likes cheesy pop music. Its not so much a gimmick but more an extension of himself.

 

[theairforce1]

Not necessarily, even if thats the "way he is in real life" even before the jersey shore fad, he is not the one that made it popular. He is just now becoming an internet/IWC sensation, and it's post jersey shore success. Without jersey shore, he would have not been able to make his character popular

 

[bxbigshow]

In the eyes of the Ryder marks, in a typical mark fashion, he's a great wrestler and can carry almost everyone, he can sell better than anyone and he has a consistency level which matches not even God himself. His microphone work is better than The Rock and Cena combined, his charisma is Godly and he could draw ants to the sun with it. Zack Ryder is the best of the best and nobody can misplace him, he should be the WWE Champion.

I have to disagree with this 'falacy' you state. I've read some of the most gushing things ever written by a Ryder mark, yet I still have never read anything to this level. I only hear this from those who say "this is how a Ryder mark feels".

At the most I've heard him being praised for tryin to get himself over without WWE's help. He worked outside the 'machine' to garner his fanbase. He has had decent matched with no f*ckups, and should be featured in the mid-card picture. I've never read a mark comparison to any of the WWE greats, just praise for trying to advance from where he is.

As for on topic, the paragraph above is my reasons for liking the guy. I'm all up for WWE trying something either 'different' to the point of taking a chance or 'old' to the point of it hasn't been done in the past 2 "eras" (PG/Attitude), because it'll be considered fresh by today's standards.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

The better question is why should we care if you like him or not? If you don't like him, you don't like him; simple as that. Asking what people see in him won't change that.

I completely disagree. Pro wrestling, like any other entertainment or sport based program, is a social experience. I think other people's opinions greatly influence how you feel about a character. In any show, there are people that the audience loves and hates. Sure, there may be a few guys that you love and hate for specific reasons NOT shared by the majority, but overall I think people's opinions do matter. For example, I used to hate Rey Mysterio. *insert long, over-done Mysterio rant here* I posed a few points to the forums and they gave me tons of feedback that eventually made me see him different and changed my feelings toward him and his character. THe same can be said for Zack Ryder. Most people don't "get him" until they see why everyone else loves him, and eventually they'll end up on the bandwagon. I still don't really "get it" but I'm willing to give him a chance because he seems like a genuine wrestling fan. He loves his job and does whatever he can do get himself over, with or without the machine to help him. I respect that a LOT. There are so many other superstars that get pushes and airtime fed to them, and don't do a whole lot with them. Their promos are stale and their character is uninspired. Zack Ryder may not have the total package, and he may never be a main event star, but at least he's doing everything he possibly can to get himself there.

 

[Ferreira]

i find it kinda funny that people in here are saying they cant see Zack ever being in the main event!

When cena debuted with his zero personallity and generic trunks did of any of you say..."Ya know what, this guy will be the face of the company for many years to come and become world champ many many times."

When you saw Austin as the hollywood blonde in WCW or as The Ringmaster in WWF did you say..."This guy will change the face of wrestling and become the biggest draw the industry has ever seen."

The Miz is another prime example.

Truth is, we cant jump to conclusions about someone because anything can happen in the world of wrestling. People these days seem to judge where a wrestler will be in 5 years based on his current gimmck or form. All i know is that if Zack ends up in the main event its because he deserved it.

Hey, nothing against Zack Ryder. I'm against the gimmick.

The gimmick will never be of a main-eventer. Sure, the guy can improve and become a main-eventer, but he will never be one with this gimmick. Why do you think WWE changed John Cena's gimmick as soon as he was truly their top dog? Rapster is funny gimmick and had great moments, but would WWE present him as their top face? I don't think so. Neither they would with Ryder's gimmick.

Austin was the same thing. He changed his gimmick and became who is truly is. Just like The Rock/Rocky Maivia. You understand my point? I've nothing against the guy, sure as hell he can be a main-eventer if he works his ass off for that. I don't get the whole support because I really don't find the gimmick appealing, but the guy has that gimmick and he has to work with it, I get it.

 

[theairforce1]

Out of all the mid-carders, the only ones with good mic skills are Zack Ryder, Alex Riley, The Miz, and Wade Barrett.

Really? REALLY? Really? As someone who is the PWI # 1 for 2010-2011 and held the WWE title an impressive 159 days while defeating Orton and Cena, I would not label the Miz as a mid-carder.

As far as Ryder being as charasmatic as the Rock or Cena? No where close. He has enthusiam, yes, but his gimmick is copied, stale, and borrrring. He is a jersey shore rip-off (even if he started it before the tv show, without the show he would not be popular for it), has boring one liners, and is average at best in the ring. Exceptional? No where close. Exceptional wrestlers in the ring would be the likes of Jericho, Daniel Bryan (even though he needs considerable amount of mic/presentation work) The Rock, Orton, Punk, and I would even throw HHH and Cena in there, as even though they dont have a diverse move set, they sell their moves, and it works well for the character they portray.

 

[theairforce1]

Really? REALLY? Really? What has The Miz been doing right now? Jobbing to A-Ri and Rey? Really?

Well considering that losing to Rey who is former WWE champion, I wouldnt call that jobbing. Now A-Ry, who is on his way up, I would call that putting him over

That's what a main-eventer does? Yeah, he was a main-eventer before, but now he is being buried. Does losing to an NXT Rookie who barely won a match on Raw main-event material?

Once again, losing to his former apprentice, I would consider that putting him over. And the wins he had over Miz were clean, but he definitely did not dominate the match. Miz also defeated him in the WWE championship tournament. As far as being buried, not quite yet. I'll agree partially as he is not in the main event picture right now, but he is far from buried. To define buried currently, I would look at Jack Swagger.

Maybe you haven't seen Zack Ryder's Youtube videos and you most likely don't know what charisma is.

I have seen them, and im pretty sure he likes watching the jersey shore as he copies a lot of that and the famous "my new haircut" video. I'd like to think I know what charisma is, since many of the wrestlers I listed have it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not dogging ryder completely. Obviously he is getting over with his youtube videos, it just lacks originality. I'm just curious as why the IWC is all up about this guy. You might as well bring in the situation from jersey shore to replace zack ryder, and no one would know he left.

 

[theairforce1]

Were you dropped in the head as a child? Zack Ryder's Youtube videos SMELLS of PERSONALITY. DO YOU KNOW ANYBODY ELSE WHO CHOSE TO GET OVER USING THE INTERNET? NOPE. ONLY ZACK FUCKING RYDER!

I didn't know you could smell personality
Very true as he has been the only person to get over using the internet. I was stating above that I give him credit for that, not dogging him. He his pure and simple a blatant copycat though (other than his horrible one-liners)
if that is what it takes to get to the main event in the E, the more power to Zack "The situation" Ryder. I don't see it happening. I think he will be another Santino Marella. But hey, at least Santino is original

 

[s3machine]

And do you think is good business to keep a wrestler just because he can be a good midcarder? I don't think so. I think World Wrestling Entertainment should focus on hiring guys or at least giving them characters that they picture as possible main-eventers.

Vince McMahon wont hire you if he feels you will never make it to the top. Because that's all it matters. Being the top guy. Nobody gets in this industry wanting to be second best, or being the best out of the bad.

This is not only Ryder related but also Kofi Kingston who will never make it, and a lot of other wrestlers on the company. Sure, you can have guys like Marella which by the way isn't funny at all, that won't be main-eventers, but you can't fill the roster with midcarders and not have enough potential to make a new generation of top dogs.

complete nonsense.

if what your saying is true guys like Tito Santana, Rick Rude, Mr. Perfect, Honky Tonk, Texas Tornado, Owen Hart, Ken Shamrock, Val Venis, D'lo Brown, etc, etc, etccccc.. would have never been given any TV time let alone runs with the Intercontinental belt. (which was much more prestigious then it is today nonetheless)

Truth is you need your mid carders just as much as you need the main eventers. you know.. there still is a large demographic of fans who still just purely like the in ring action and throughout the years the mid carders have usually put on better in ring matches then the main event players.. and thats just one example of their importance.

Everyone on the roster is important to make the show a success. it is a combined effort.. which without the likes of the mid card.. would be stale.. and boring.

my point is.. Zack Ryder definitely has his place within the company.. it might not be as glorified or as important as John Cena's role. but Zack clearly has a big following now which will all but ensure him his regular rotation on TV.

 

[theairforce1]

It was fucking figurative language.

Really? I didn't know Santino Marella's could be assistant general managers.

I think he is "Assistant to the general manager (ala Dwight Schrute) and has no real power

, beat the heat machine named Michael Cole

I wouldn't consider that an accomplishment. I think good ol JR could score a pinfall on Cole.

, and get mic time every week.

if you consider mic time every week when john cena would pass Ryder in the hall before his match and get a high five, then sure he does. The only mic work Ryder has gotten in recent time (on TV mind you) is the recent smackdown bit. Thats about it

 

[XXJJ]

Ryder hype has nothing to do with his in ring skills. He is a pretty average wrestler. He does have a spot in the WWE and should be on tv. He is an entertaining guy. He is a comedy type wrestler, thats what got him over. People are kidding themselves if they believe differently. But he has a cult like following that overrates him. At best the guy can be a mid carder.

He isn't much different than Santino. Its funny to see how differently those two are viewed by the IWC.

 

[s3machine]

Don't you think thats a little different from what happens now at WWE? Sure, Perfect, Owen and Rick Rude were great wrestlers that were in fact midcarders, were they damn good? Of course. If it were today, they would be main-eventers, I'm sure Curt Hennig would be one of the top guys in the industry. What does that have to do with Ryder? Well, Zack Ryder is in a different era, Cena and Orton are top dogs, everyone else are behind them, but you can have new main eventers all the time, but guys like Ryder can make it there but need to have a serious gimmick.

And WWE has changed the way they do business, don't you think they recruit wrestlers thinking of them as future main-eventers? There will always be midcarders, but WWE won't sign them with that in mind. Even Snitsky, Umaga, or Khali, have been signed with one purpose: push them and their opponents and then bury them. Why? That's the way it works. Guys like Ryder can't be used like that.


As far as his talent I have nothing against him, I think he can outwrestle Orton or Cena, but I'm against the gimmick that will never let him be taken seriously. In time they will change it, but right now with this gimmick we will never be out of the midcard hell.

definitely do agree with you that its a different era for the WWE but I dont think that all mid carders of yesterday would be main eventers today.. Rick Rude and Curt Henning although amazing talents.. would still be at the mid card level because they wouldnt draw main event player type money.

100% do agree with you as well about his gimmick being something that isnt main event quality.. but I think that just like they did with Cena with slowly taking away his rap gimmick and slowly taking away Ortons conceded gimmick that the same might be in store for Ryder.. I think the WWE will slowly take away alot of his comedy bit because its hard for him to be taken seriously with that hanging over his head.. and in the end he will just be Zack Ryder who might still have his WO WO WO chant but not much more in terms of being comedic.. if the 'E" doesn't believe in him or doesnt want to give him that legit push then hell just remain as a funny who cant be taken seriously.

The jury is still out whether Ryder would be able to draw money because hes still young with a long way to go before hes even thought about for anything higher than an upper mid carder.. and truth is NOBODY can say whether hes going to make it or not.. just like nobody had any idea that Cena, Orton, Punk, Miz, or hell even Christian would be in the main event spotlight right now.

time will tell.. and for the first time in a very long the.. the WWE really has us guessing and looking forward to what will happen next week.. I say this as I wait ever so impatiently for RAW to start.. I havent been able to say that since the... yep. you guessed it.. the good ol Attitude Era.

 

[theairforce1]

.

Outwrestle Cena or Orton? Is that a legitimate opinion or a joke? Considering the years of experience they both have on him, their main event status, and their ability in the ring, Ryder is and will never be at their level. Orton is one of the best in the ring, with the ability to tell a story with his matches. Cena, while he may not have the most diverse move set (which he expands here and there, but higher powers at the E make him stick to his set of moves for the most part) is actually quite gifted in the ring, and like orton sells his moves and tells a story in the ring (also, take a look at cena's matches when he first appeared on tv, hes quite good)

 

[Hazardous]

I'll be honest, I skipped almost every post in here. I read the odd one or two, Like Jack-Hammer.. but not many others. why? Because the majority of the time the thread will consist of "You're just an idiot and don't get it!" Or the even better "He won't win the WWE title, so he shouldnt be there at all!"

First, Ryder is good. He DOES have personality. Yeah, so he's a little Jersey Shore looking, but I think he is doing what people like Austin have done in the past. Being himself, just amped up a bit.
Then there is the "He's a Robbie E (or whatever his name is) ripoff!" Okay.. So no. Where TNA legit ripped off an actual TV character (Anyone who thinks Jersey Shore is actually Reality TV should be shot in the face. They are characters) While Ryder is just playing himself, within that lifestyle.
I use to hate the guy, until I actually watched every episode of the show. Really looked into his character. Watched his matches on Superstars... The kid has a future in the company. Just because you hate the gimmick, is no excuse to not see it.
Hell, Look at one of the best characters ever. The Undertaker. How many adults of the time of his debut said he would go on to become one of the greatest of all time?
Even if he never does win the WWE title, that does NOT mean his career was a bust. Just ask Roddy Piper.

 

[Ferreira]

Outwrestle Cena or Orton? Is that a legitimate opinion or a joke? Considering the years of experience they both have on him, their main event status, and their ability in the ring, Ryder is and will never be at their level. Orton is one of the best in the ring, with the ability to tell a story with his matches. Cena, while he may not have the most diverse move set (which he expands here and there, but higher powers at the E make him stick to his set of moves for the most part) is actually quite gifted in the ring, and like orton sells his moves and tells a story in the ring (also, take a look at cena's matches when he first appeared on tv, hes quite good)

I do think he has the potential to do so.

Outwrestle meaning that he can perform at their level in terms of in-ring quality. Of course, I'm not saying he has the same talent or drawing ability, that's all other story.

I'm not talking about how to sell or create a history inside the ring, I think Ryder has the potential to do great matches just as Orton and Cena have done for the past years. The purpose of this thread is not to bash him but to point out that with his current gimmick as much as people like him he wont go anywhere relevant if he doesn't change.

Of course I know that both Orton and Cena are great in-ring competitors, but guys like Punk, Rollins and others are on a level superior to both of them, but at the same time they aren't draws as Orton and Cena.

 

[ralphie9181]

This nonsense is becoming tiresome. Zach is entertaining on his little youtube show, he is a fun silly character when he gets on TV, but then people start threads comparing him to legends like Eddie Gurrero, and saying he can out perform stars like Cena and Orton. You people need to cool it. It's getting to a point where it is irritating to even browse the threads.

 

[GI Cake]

When I first saw Zack on ECW wrestling against Christian I thought he had something going at least when it came to his in-ring ability. But his new "Woo Woo Woo" character wasn't exactly taking off. And with that was reason enough for him to be on Superstars and job to the Mid-Carders.

But unlike most of the Superstars like Tyler Reks, Chris Masters, Tyson Kidd. He developed his character and groomed it on his own. He took time out of his day to make youtube videos, showing us a side of Zack Ryder that no one really saw before. Hell, for most wrestling fans, it felt like we knew Zack more than some of our personal favorites, he made kayfabe matter again outside of a WWE arena. That is why Zack is getting the pops and why he is so over with the fans, he worked for it, and he earned it.

And for him being overrated? Do I see Zack in the main-event? No not really, but hey. If he is able to continue grooming his character and constantly improving his in-ring work then maybe in 6 months we could see him with the IC or even the US. He is talented, and he is hungry for the business. But he is still to young to be even considered for the main-event as some internet critics like to make him out to be.

 

[klipz.nbd]

REALLY? Really? You guys are already judging Zack Ryder off two Raw appearances?

I for one think you can't make a call on if someone will be big or not when they have only had 2 matches on Raw (I know he has had more but let's be realistic, the current crowds dont know that and don't know who he is). From the reaction he has gotten already, the "Let's Go Ryder" chants and the crowd yelling along to his "Woo! Woo! Woo!" I think he has a bright future.

Not Main Event material with this current character, but easily a Mid-Card title I can see him getting. Maybe then moving on to the ME if he manages to find something big to propel him.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Ryder is as good as other jobbers and lower mid-carders; it's not that he's a waste of ring space. It's just that his recent "fame" has come strictly from some over-the-top self-promotion. Many people admire that kind of thing; my presumption had been that Vince McMahon does not. (Ask Vince how he felt when Matt Hardy used the Internet to talk about himself). While the IWC was wondering how Vince could be ignoring this "fabulous talent" in their midst, I figured that ignoring Zack was just McMahon's subtle way of letting us know that he calls the shots, not a guy who sticks himself on You Tube and tries to make us think he's something special. While many wrestling fans seem to have been fooled, I reasoned that McMahon wasn't.

So, I was completely surprised when Zack got a couple of consecutive appearances on RAW. Yes, he wasn't accomplishing much in pinning Michael Cole, but at least he was on TV.

My question: If it works to do what Zack Ryder has been doing as far as self-promotion, might it lead to others doing the same thing....and if so, how far will it go and how much will it aggravate WWE management?

 

[theairforce1]

Ryder hype has nothing to do with his in ring skills. He is a pretty average wrestler. He does have a spot in the WWE and should be on tv. He is an entertaining guy. He is a comedy type wrestler, thats what got him over. People are kidding themselves if they believe differently. But he has a cult like following that overrates him. At best the guy can be a mid carder.

He isn't much different than Santino. Its funny to see how differently those two are viewed by the IWC.

Exactly my point. I'm not dogging Ryder (doing so would dog almost all mid-carder wrestlers out there, and some of the best comedy type wrestlers). I just think (and I know I'm not alone) that some of the IWC is putting Ryder over as the Next Big Thing (no pun intended). If it happens, then good for Ryder. I just don't see it happening. Average at best in the ring (and thats a compliment, their is far worse out there), and has the comedy type personality of Santino. Thats his role, and he fits it (and will probably do well in that role as god awful Teddy Long's assistant.... HOLLA PLAYA!!! lol)

 

[Good Golly It's Ollie]

Really? You guys are already judging Zack Ryder off two Raw appearances?

They're judging him on that and over a year's worth of work on Superstars and ECW, yes. Problem?

I didn't think so.

He's currently the 4th biggest face on Raw, so yeah, he does have a bright future.

Sorry, but I have to pick you up on this.

1. John Cena.
1b. CM Punk is tweener enough to count as a face.
2. Rey Mysterio
3. Morrison.
4/5. Kofi/Riley.

And a bunch of others. Zack is actually quite far down this list; remember that SD has its own faces as well that ZR is more obscure than.

Zack Ryder is alright in the ring, nothing special, but he's also no Otunga (Otunga has actually improved loads recently, anyway). ZR has a lot of charisma, I don't understand how you can say he doesn't. All one needs to do is look at a picture of him to see that he oozes it. Also, in spite of company policy or whatever, he's still got significantly over, especially considering he got very little A-show time, and he's certainly displayed a helluva lot of initiative.

The way I see it is this. If Zack Ryder continues to get over, and enough so to make the company significant money, then he should be pushed. If he can't, then don't. I will say that both haters and fanboys are forgetting about good ole Capitalism here.