WWE vs TNA Thread (Business Strategy, Creative Direction, Head-to-Head Shows, Etc.)

[LigerBomb]

Can TNA force WWE to change and revamp styles? Yes. That said it would only be done once TNA can show a clear dominance in revenue and ratings, which won't be happening anytime soon or perhaps ever. Basically WWE would need damn good, justifiable and clearly provable evidence to change coarse.

Oh and BTW, move-sets mean shit. Characters you can emotionally invest it, good story telling, suspension of disbelief, and being entertained are what separate a viewer's cash from their wallet, not a bunch of high spots.

 

[XgringolocoX]

LigerBomb pretty much got it IMO.

TNA would have to seriously threaten WWE's market share for them to even consider changing thier tune. This could be a few years down the road if ever. Personally, although I've been highly critical of TNA, I would love to see TNA start chipping away and making their mark. I just have serious misgivings about Hogan and his past tract record for going into business for hisself.

 

[Jack Tunney's Ghost]

"Oh and BTW, move-sets mean shit. Characters you can emotionally invest it, good story telling, suspension of disbelief, and being entertained are what separate a viewer's cash from their wallet, not a bunch of high spots."

Yes, that's true TODAY -- but, back then, it was something NEW and people wanted to see a bunch of high spots because they never saw those kind of matches before.

No argument on the character and storyline investment, though. Completely agree with you on that one.

But, to build the company around a particular wrestler and/or storyline, TNA is going to have to find that "X" factor to really make it work... that is, finding the right guy, at the right time, with the right angle, if they expect WWE to just even take notice of TNA. Even WWE itself has been trying to find that "X" factor to replicate what they had with Hogan, Austin and Rock. It's not something a promotion can manufacture (as they've been desperately trying to do with Cena and it's not working)... that "X" factor is something that's just stumbled upon. The planets have to be aligned just right, apparently.

But, again, TNA has to find something NEW overall to bring to the audience something that they've never seen before and that's ACCEPTED by that audience. If it's a new style of wrestling, or whatever... a storyline alone or a wrestler alone is probably not going to have that much impact in WWE. WWE may try to copy that storyline, or bring out their own version of that wrestler... but that would only affect maybe 3 segments on a 2-hour Raw AT BEST.

Again, TNA has yet to bring anything NEW of great significance to the table to influence WWE's M.O.

So, no, TNA isn't going to find a great market share so long as they continue to be WWE-lite. And if they do manage to steal WWE's audience, they're going to need that "X" Factor I mentioned... and as I said, the best that WWE would do, or be bothered doing, is just try copying it and that would only affect a few minutes of Raw. But, unless TNA brings something much bigger and new to the table, WWE ain't going to revamp anything major overall.

 

[AdamBenjamin]

I don't think TNA will ever be selling out arenas, in all honesty. It's possible, but improbable. Maybe smaller, college based 10k seat arenas.. But no where near the numbers WWE is at. And if they do, it won't happen for YEARS. Growth like that happens over decades. By the inaugural Wrestlemania in the 80's, that company was already established, and we're lucky (yes, lucky) enough to get the right sponsors and involvement to make the event and business itself look much bigger than it really was, which spawned the boom, IMO. TNA doesn't have any business insane, twisted, risk taking geniuses like Vince McMahon. They man was, and still is a visionary, even if he has been missing the mark lately. Longevity is key in any entertainment business, and he and the WWE have that without a doubt. TNA? We'll see. There's still a lot more road to travel, I think. Like I said, I don't expect them to be very big competition, no matter how much I would like to see McMahon bring the A-Game.

As for Hogan.. He isn't what's going to make TNA a giant, or even bring them to the next level. All Hogan will serve to do, is bring in even more fans that see a familiar name (isn't that all TNA has ever done?) It's up to TNA to really find a way to HOOK the fans. Hogan can't do that anymore. I don't think they've done anything truly innovative yet, or it would reflect in the ratings. I also hate the six sided ring more than I hate Bill Goldberg for being a giant, green son of a bitch, but that's for a different thread.


So.. I don't think TNA can cause WWE to change styles, unless, like it was said before, they kill WWE in the ratings for a few years, which is absurd to think of at this point in time.

High spots, technical, more moves, more dangerous moves... That doesn't make the world go round. It's a style the indies began using when the big 3 took over, just to stay alive. It's dangerous to REAL stars, and not needed for ratings. Moreover, if it was, we'd have new "super" stars, top guys, every 2-3 years because of how shortened careers would be for the top guys. TV matches are worked a specific way for a reason.

 

[psl19877]

I think this is just what WWE needs a kick in the ass. TNA isnt that good of wrestling hell we all know this just by watching it. Everything is pretty bad on it, and the older guys are doing all that they can just to make it good.

If the rumor is true and TNA moves to Monday nights. With Hogan, and maybe Flair along with other big names in the mix, that would be a huge wake up call for Vince to get rid of the PG crap, make some big moves and restart the Monday Night Wars once again.

The way things are going for TNA right now, they seem to be giving guys control which is what WCW did and which is why they failed. TNA will be the new WCW and they will crash and burn. But they will in fact give WWE a run for their money before that happens.

 

[psl19877]

I think the entire Shane thing is total BS... could it happen? Yes it could. But I think there is much more then meets the eye right here. In my mind one of two things has happend for Hogan to come to TNA.

1.) Hogan took a HUGE pay cut to help TNA with alot of his old buddys in TNA plus he would want to stick it to Vince as much as possible as he would probley want to be the guy who took him down.

Or

2.) TNA now has a private investor (Not Shane or Vince) to help get the money to sign Hogan and other such rumored big names that might be coming to TNA.

So i believe its one of thoses two things that lead Hogan to TNA... Discuess

 

[Jack Tunney's Ghost]

Yeah, but, guess what... there won't be a Monday Night War anytime soon.

Let's say if TNA did introduce a new show to go up against Raw... the challenge for TNA is two (or three) fold --

1st -- To be overly simplistic, but a somewhat valid reason -- no one has really heard of TNA comparatively speaking against WWE. Again, TNA's only show barely cracks the ratings of WWE's "C" show. Bottom line, TNA won't impact WWE's ratings enough for WWE to care.

2nd -- TNA doesn't have the financial backing to compete with WWE. Padding the talent roster alone isn't enough to make any major impact on ratings unless you you have a Hulk Hogan. But, even then, Hogan alone isn't going to draw enough viewers from WWE to make anyone in WWE panic. TNA needs major, MAJOR marketing to not only get their name out there, but, to prove they're worth checking out. That's not just having great talent on their roster, but, they need to show that TNA, overall as a product, is just as cool, if not cooler, than WWE. That means booking, production, company policies, and their fan base.

3rd -- Bring a SOLID product that people will want to watch over WWE... and right now, TNA lacks that. As I mentioned earlier, unless TNA brings something HUGE and new to the table, they're just WWE-lite at the moment. Why watch a copy-cat of WWE if you can watch WWE itself? TNA is simply an alternative to those who want something different than WWE (which is fine), but TNA isn't exactly providing "Must See TV!" Maybe Hogan can turn that around, but, past history has shown, as psl19877 pointed out, Hogan's booking has been all about Hogan (and his buddies) and that spells disaster for any promotion (those who won't learn from WCW's demise are doomed to repeat it). Also, as long as TNA's TV remains in "The Impact Zone," a TV studio at a tourist attraction, without going on the road for TV, TNA will be far from even remotely giving any impression that they're in the same league as WWE.

I hate to burst your bubble of fantasy here, but here's the harsh reality, folks -

Again, there won't be a Monday Night Wars anytime soon because of TNA.

Vince McMahon isn't going to revamp the WWE because of TNA (no matter who's booking TNA) any time soon.

WWE isn't going to drop the PG stuff because of TNA... PG means more potential advertisers for WWE. The mighty dollar will speak louder, hell, scream louder to Vinny Mac than whatever TNA is whispering.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

2nd -- TNA doesn't have the financial backing to compete with WWE. Padding the talent roster alone isn't enough to make any major impact on ratings unless you you have a Hulk Hogan. But, even then, Hogan alone isn't going to draw enough viewers from WWE to make anyone in WWE panic. TNA needs major, MAJOR marketing to not only get their name out there, but, to prove they're worth checking out. That's not just having great talent on their roster, but, they need to show that TNA, overall as a product, is just as cool, if not cooler, than WWE. That means booking, production, company policies, and their fan base.

It's funny that you mentioned that because it reminded me of something I noticed last night. I hardly watch all of Impact, mostly just a few segments. Everytime I flipped the channel back to Spike, and commercials were on, I kept seeing the commercial for the SD! vs. Raw video game. I just had to chuckle a little about it because I couldn't help but think that Spike is spending more time advertising a video game for TNA's competition than it does plugging TNA itself.

 

[Southwind]

It's funny that you mentioned that because it reminded me of something I noticed last night. I hardly watch all of Impact, mostly just a few segments. Everytime I flipped the channel back to Spike, and commercials were on, I kept seeing the commercial for the SD! vs. Raw video game. I just had to chuckle a little about it because I couldn't help but think that Spike is spending more time advertising a video game for TNA's competition than it does plugging TNA itself.

This really has nothing to do with TNA they can't control every commercial that's Spike's prerogative.

The biggest issue for TNA will be getting the fence sitters on their side the WWE loyalists and TNA loyalists will be moot, whoever can score the undecided ones can gain the advantage.

Nobody thought WCW would ever succeed as much as they did for damn near two years they took the WWE for all it was worth.

All I'm saying is the same two guys who beat the WWE before are back and with TNA.

Nobody has yet to tell me what exactly TNA has to lose.

 

[Freddy4190]

Nah. Hogan and Bischoff aren't gonna cause a groundbreaking change to TNA no matter how popular Hogan once was or.. apparently still is? TNA is nowhere near close to being a shadow on Vince's radar. Vince isn't worried about TNA overtaking his precious product. TNA's biggest PPV was equivalent to a WWE house show in some no-name town in Montana. WWE could draw more then TNA with 2 wrestlers. I'm not saying TNA isn't good, they have a damn good product at the moment, they have great talent, decent storylines, but they're not gonna be taking over WWE no matter how many Hogan's or Bischoff's they sign. Not in the near future at least.

 

[johnbragg]

Once again, Vince's first reaction to glimmers of a TNA challenge will not be to improve the WWE product. That's hard. It will be to cripple and ruin the TNA product and ride out WWE's cash and name-recognition advantages until Spike TV or Panda Energy folds their hand.

 

[Jack Tunney's Ghost]

"This really has nothing to do with TNA they can't control every commercial that's Spike's prerogative."

Absolutely correct!

But, I have a sneaky suspicion that the placement of those "SmackDown vs. Raw" video game commercial during Impact! is not just a coincidence. (Duh!)

I don't know how that air time was sold, though. It could be the most likely case of WWE purchasing commercial air time specifically during Impact! to sell their (WWE's) most popular product of the year to the most ideal audience. Spike TV could've sold them an advertising package where they'll air ads throughout various day parts and the major selling point was that ads would also be aired during Impact!. Or maybe it is just a coincidence as the Spike TV network is aimed directly at the same demographic of WWE's and maybe WWE went balls to wall and bought alot of commercial time on Spike and that ad plays around the clock (which just so happens to be during Impact! as well).

If it is a case a case of where WWE paid specifically to air spots during Impact!, it's not a huge sign that WWE is paying more attention to TNA that they actually are. The idea is to sell video games. It's a better investment for WWE to spend money for commercial time during Impact! than it would be to advertise during re-runs of "Desperate Housewives" (for example). And for WWE, if Spike TV is willing to play along, that's great for WWE!

 

[Southwind]

Don't I wish this would happen however it won't we are in a different time and place folks and wrestling has changed albeit for the worse.

Look the attitude era isn't coming back I'd take anything over the lame PG era so I feel the masses pain.

We have to hope for something that we all find vastly entertaining but is different from the attitude era it's not coming back but an acceptable alternative is hopefully on the horizon.

 

[JBK2008]

If TNA ever got big enough then yes, WWE would change and step it up a notch. That's just going to happen. Vince isn't going to pay much attention to TNA, even with Hogan signing on. He may be mad, but it'll be amount to nothing since TNA will somehow drop the ball. I can't see the signing of Hogan at this stage of his career being too big to cause real concern for the WWE. Vince is going to ignore them and nothing will change for quite a while.

 

[Scott Star]

Now, I know this has already been discussed in some detail, but I haven't done this in awhile so cut me a little slack. We've seen discussions that ask if TNA can force WWE to change. We've seen discussions that ask if TNA is going to, or should, invade WWE. I think we can all agree that in the interest of originality, no one wants to see another Invasion angle. It was done very well, regardless of who liked it and who didn't. But like all great angles, it should NOT be repeated just for the sake of material.

My question for YOU, WrestleZone readers is: Does WWE need TNA in order to recapture the growing section of fanbase that the ICW feels it's losing? Does WWE need the kind of competition it had during the Monday Night Wars in order to step back up to the standards it set during the Attitude Era?

I feel it does. I've always been outspoken on the competition Rule of Thumb. That why should a global powerhouse like WWE put on spectacular shows if it doesn't have any competition? I've always felt that the best thing about WCW (And in my opinion, there wasn't too much), was that it forced the then-WWF to step up their game. Nothing was taboo and while I'm not saying that WWE needs to start offending their audiences or the kids that populate them, I do feel that WWE has been half-ass producing their product for the better part of the last 4 or 5 years. What reason did Vince McMahon have to sweat? What did he need to be concerned with? TNA will always have the potential and the star power to be a MAJOR player but time after time, the creative team drops the ball. It's the single reason I stopped watching iMPACT. Because it became pointless. Foley with the Title was pointless. The Main Event Mafia, as cool as the gimmick was at first, has become pointless. TNA, for a long time, became known as WWE's recycle machine, promoting virtually any former WWE star they could get their hands on. But, now, I feel TNA has ONE chance, to really give WWE a run for their money.

Hogan's in control and Bischoff's in his ear. Flashbacks anyone? If the two of them learned anything from WCW's downfall and apply it now in their second shot at glory, WWE could be in trouble.

So, enough rambling from me. Do you feel WWE needs that level of competition in order to reach the heights it once had? And lastly, do you feel that if TNA begins steamrolling towards WWE, Vince McMahon will drop his restraints and begin "trying" again?

Let's hear it!

 

[johnbragg]

The Jarrett/Carter TNA has been great for Vince. It has prevented the emergence of a serious competitor by sucking up enough talent, TV exposure etc. that no one else has taken a shot at it. Meanwhile, under Dixie Carter and Jeff Jarrett, they weren't going to threaten WWE.

Do you feel WWE needs that level of competition in order to reach the heights it once had?

"That level of competition" is the key. It forced Vince McMahon to change--but it also nearly killed the company. It DID kill the other company.

Up until last week, WWE's competition was not TNA or even really UFC but the Disney Channel, Nickelodeon, Monk, Xbox, Batman, NBA, NFL--anything people spend entertainment dollars on or watch regularly enough to make advertising worthwhile.

So focus was on how to repackage or tweak the product to chase the Hannah Montana fans' brothers. Thus the rise of John Cena and Jeff Hardy.

Now Vince may be worried about a wrestling competitor threatening his "home turf". Many people think that this will spur him to improve his product and thus be a Good Thing. However, Vince's history indicates that he is much better at ruining and destroying his competition than he is at making WWF/E awesome.

6-Step Plan to Cripple TNA/Hulkamania
Step 1. Create an official Veteran's Schedule for over-35 main eventers, cut to 100 shows a year.
Step 2. Main eventers who Cross the Line to TNA will not be welcomed back.
Step 3. Sign key TNA talent at almost any cost--Angle, SAmoa Joe, Awesome Kong.
Step 4. Inflate TNA's payroll. A TNA talent is a free agent, offer a WWE roster contract.
Step 5. Counterprogram on Monday Nights at 8pm. (Superstars? Studio show?)
Step 6. Counterprogram on Thursday nights. (Move Smackdown next year?)

 

[Southwind]

I really like this thread it brings up a very good point.

I'm not sure if the WWE "needs" TNA but when the Monday night wars were occurring it caused Vince to do things he normally wouldn't have and it made his product better.

Competition always brings out the best in people whether it be sports (Bird vs. Magic etc). Or other areas of life, competition causes you to up your game in order to win and be the best. Without competition you don't have the same drive the passion and the will to improve.

 

[johnbragg]

Competition always brings out the best in people whether it be sports (Bird vs. Magic etc). Or other areas of life

But TNA vs WWE isn't going to be Magic vs Bird. WCW vs WWF could be MAgic vs Bird--WCW was the successor to Jim Crockett Promotions, which started with the old Mid-Atlantic (Carolinas) territory where Ric Flair got his start, and JCP absorbed the old Georgia, Florida, St Louis, Mid South and Kansas City territories. By the time Crockett sold to Turner, "World Championship Wrestling" was practically the entire NWA.

WCW had serious lineage, serious horsepower, and a bunch of people who had booked or run wrestling territories--Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Ole Anderson, Bill Watts at least, I think there were others but I'm not old-school enough to recognize the names.

TNA doesn't have that. They had Jerry Jarrett, they had Jim Cornette. They have Russo and now Bischoff, and Hogan. Bischoff may be bringing an infrastructure of people who know what they're doing in all facets of the business--TV presentation, arena booking, merchandise design, event promotion, human resources, insurance, getting the production crew and equipment from Orlando to City X on time and in proper condition, plus plain old booking.