WWE Vengeance 2011: Aftermath & Discussion

Match of the Night

  • Dolph Ziggler and Jack Swagger vs Air Boom

  • Dolph Ziggler vs Zack Ryder

  • Beth Phoenix vs Eve Torres

  • Sheamus vs Christian

  • Triple H and C.M. Punk vs The Miz and R-Truth

  • Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes

  • Mark Henry vs The Big Show

  • Alberto Del Rio vs John Cena


Results are only viewable after voting.
I expected a huge Dud of a show, but It ended up being above average.

I think the low expectations helped with this a lot.

Since we kind of had nothing happen, but then again, not having titles swapping all around doesn't make it bad. The only major thing for the night is Nash coming back, the rest of the night was just wrestling as usual.

The only thing I wanted to happen different was I wanted Ziggler to drop his US title and work into the ME while also pushing Ryder into the midcard.
Although Ziggler looks like an ironman now.
 
I don't want to go into full detail, so I'll just cliff note it. First the Crowd, didn't like them much I kept thinking to myself, "well in Japan, the crowds are silent and such.." but this isn't Japan, if you're enjoying yourself let it be known. It's really a shame because they would have made the matches that much more enjoyable. About the Card, which was quite stacked with the WWE talent. I have to say it was quite well executed. I especially like how the overlooked matches outshined the bigger ones. Really, many people are going to be talking about Big Show and Henry's ridiculous (yet familiar) spot over the Triple H & Punk vs Awesome Truth match and I believe people will be speaking about how great a surprise Cena vs ADR was over Randy Orton and Rhodes.

But I think the biggest pleasant surprise came with Eve vs Beth, I want to speak on that in depth a little Eve showed that she does have what it takes, she has better technique, she can do something new sort of (the Reverse-flying Triangle Choke took me by surprise) and she can do one hell of a moonsault, I love that fact that she's using her Jiu-Jitsu background which I had hoped she would bottom line, I like/love her improvement.

Afew other things I want to talk about, no title changes at all. Personally I was not expecting any so no real harm t me in that department. I was however, disappointed that Rhodes did not go over Orton. I felt like it would have hurt Orton at all to lose to Rhodes since he would have gone over via dirty tactics but Rhodes still looks decently strong. Air Boom went over also not a surprise I assumed Bourne would be healthy I guess he's healthy enough for the team to hold the titles a while longer. Ziggler of course pulled double duty, his situation reminded me of Chris Jericho's when he became the first ever Undisputed champ in WWE, anyway, Ziggler's cockiness was at an all time high; he went over as I expected, I hope WWE does not drop Ryder at this point the rivalry can be long standing, I think Ryder proved himself tonight. Big Show and Henry stole the show (no pun intended) for two big guys that put on a great showing they ended the match the best way possible and it added to (or subtracted from) the follow up match Cena/ Del Rio. Segue into this match, it was Last Man Standing So a fully intact ring was not necessary, I love how Del Rio sold extra every time he hit a move and it also hurt him, it's simple additions that made me like this match. Both men gave everything, they fought in the crowd, back stage; Del Rio pushed over, what seemed to be legitimately heavy steel beams, literally burying Cena. Del Rio got put through two tables (I wish Cena went through one of those at least so the match would be more balanced in both superstars got hurt). The match concluded in a significant interference from Awesome Truth for reasons I don't fully understand, they aided ADR specifically (I believe that was the hook for MNR) anyway after their barrage of punches and finishers Del clocked Cena With the belt to keep him down for a 10 count. It was fitting I'm ADR went over he has a lot to prove, I think it's best he do that with the WWE title. I also think Cena's new "RISE ABOVE HATE" shirt is great and just in time for Survivor Series.
 
REALLY good top to bottom show. People on here bitch about the outcomes but that's ******ed. You don't know the future so you shouldn't do that. Judge it in and of itself.

The opener was fast paced and perfectly booked.

Then Ziggler and Ryder was exactly how it should have been, solid too.

Eve vs Beth was REALLY good, especially with how Divas matches have been. the crowd actually bit and cared about the falsies.

HHH/Punk vs Awesome Truth was the only match that I didn't think lived up to the hype. However, i had HUGE expectations going in. Good match. The angle at the end was to be expected.

Henry vs Show was the match of the night. Borderline big man instant classic. Storytelling, selling, those awesome big man spots where they do normal things but because they're huge it's a big deal. The story, BTW, was that Show is big enough and strong enough to take Henry off his game, Henry used some slight underhanded tactics to get the advantage. The leg still isn't there, but Show is resilient and pissed enough that he still fights back. Ring collapsing was awesome too.

Christian vs Sheamus was solid like it was supposed to be.

Rhodes vs Orton wasn't quite as good as I thought it'd be, however, this is their first real big match in this feud, so of course they aren't going to go balls out.

ADR vs Cena was exactly what I thought it was gonig to be. The ring being down was a nice touch. Some nice brutality spots and an expected screw finish.

Top to bottom not a single bad match. Really not even a single mediocre match, everything was at least "good". Real good show.
 
this PPV was disappointing, no titles changed hands (i was expecting Ryder to beat Ziggler, he has beaten him multiple times on Raw and you should give the belt to Zach now since he is hot right now with the fans and eventually he'll die down so don't wait to give him the belt give it to him now and make the fans still go nuts on him, he will fizzle out eventually i feel if he isnt pushed and has a belt soon). Overall, i was expecting dolph to trade his US belt for a tag belt tonight, and neither of those happened.
The show was disappointing because no titles changed hands and they didn't give the belt to Zach?

You don't give guys the belt as a reward, it's a tool. Zack didn't look bad, in fact he looked very good. Just giving a guy a belt doesn't do anything, you have to make it interesting.

You really shouldn't bitch about a show based on the results. They have a long term plan that you don't know yet and when you say "give the belt to this guy, he's good" you sound like a mark saying "my favorite needs to win".

The wrestling was good and the angle advancement was good too. Good show. Considering how many people on here acted like they were expecting a shit show, I'd say it was excellent.
 
Headman was absolutely correct. Just putting the title on him doesn't suddenly make him "the man". it's all about overness. It's ALREADY Punk's time right now. He's really REALLY over. he's selling a ton of merch.

The idea that a title proves your the best is an incredibly markish thought. It's a 'fake' win. They put the title on you, or put you in a title match, to advance your character. However, if a bear shits in the woods and no one is there, it doesn't stink. If Punk were to beat me for the WWE title, no one gives a shit and it doesn't matter. If Punk is in the most over and most prominent story on the show (which he is with HHH) then that DOES matter. I'd venture to say that having Punk in the story with HHH was better for him and better at getting him over than putting the belt on him. Putting the belt on Punk cuts the balls off his character. You can't fight the man when you have the strap.
 
earlier this yr i thought cm punk was goanna be the next stone cold type of character that gets the spotlight each week. But there booking him in tag team matches as a complete baby face. HHH is more over than punk at the moment I dont blame them hhh is one of there few already established names who fans support.
 
I think you pretty well get the concept here, vote for what you felt was the MOTN. From top to bottom this was a good PPV and we got enough out of it to make this interesting. Here is a brief rundown of the matches.

Air Boom vs Dolph Ziggler and Jack Swagger - This was a great match to start the night and set the pace. Both teams had their moments to shine, all the participants turned in a great effort, and overall I think this match showed how fun tag matches can be.

Dolph Ziggler vs Zack Ryder - Major props to DZ for wrestling not 1 but 2 matches on the card. Zack Ryder got his much needed/wanted exposure but still looked like he belonged in there with the United States Champion. It was up and down and all around a good match from both men.

Beth Phoenix vs Eve Torres - An exceptional match reeled in by the Divas here. I think everyone got more than they expected from this one, especially in the entertainment department. Eve showed more than we've seen from here in the past, and Beth continues to look like the main force in the Divas division.

Sheamus vs Christian - Despite not being billed higher on the card, this one still had a big match feel and delivered exactly what you would want from it. You got to see the power offense of Sheamus and watch Christian show that he can have a good match with anyone. Again, both men looked great.

Triple H and C.M. Punk vs The Miz and R-Truth - Another great display of tag team wrestling as both showed the chemistry they can have, and the qualities they possess. We got a surprise run in from Kevin Nash and the controversy therein to push this feud further. Everyone looked good here and the right moves were made to keep interest for what is to come.

Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes - You could probably call this the "Textbook" match of the night for sure. Orton didn't make Rhodes look out of place, and Rhodes didn't let himself be overshadowed. These guys put on a great match and gave the fans what they wanted. One has to wonder going forward if we'll see these two mix it up some more, the fans will be the ones getting the pay off if they do.

Mark Henry vs The Big Show - You might refer to this one as "The Irresistible Force meeting The Immovable Object". These two big men clashed and put and exclamation point on their match. They showed just how good a match of the big men and be and how much it truly has to offer. A great title match to boot.

John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio - Working with the aftermath of the previous match, these two showed just how good they really are. With no ropes and a broken ring they still delivered a great match and brought in all the elements. Both men fought hard and took all they could. The WWE title was properly fought for here, and the show wrapped up in exemplary fashion.

So now it's your turn to decide which of the matches in this exceptional PPV stood above the rest. Please explain your choice, have fun, and may the best match win.:)
 
I never thought I'd ever click this option, even if I was held at gunpoint until last nights PPV but Mark Henry Vs Big Show... they worked their asses off in that match and it had great story telling threw out, the ending was just the icing on the cake that turned a good big man match into a memorable and even classic big man match.
 
There was no match of the night for me. But if I were to choose it would be Randy Orton vs. Cody Rhodes. Great showing by Rhodes, that moonsault was awesome (although it missed).

The Sheamus vs. Christian (which is actually my pick for the match of the night for HIAC) is pale in comparison to their 1st match. I was actually disappointed.

The Mark Henry vs. Big Show isn't pretty at all. They were just striking each other.

Beth vs. Eve was good enough. But not outstanding.

Air Boom vs. Zig/Swag ranks 2nd to me. Good showing by air boom and great sequence.

Ryder vs. Ziggler isn't good at all. Ryder is just pounding his feet to Ziggler. He isn't ready for this.

Del Rio vs. Cena has good moments but isn't good enough for a LMS match.

Triple H/Punk vs. Awesome truth isn't good either. Triple H looks old. He isn't the same.
 
Tag Title Match
Great tag match these two teams are putting on the best tag matches we've seen in the WWE for quite a long time. It's still not quite up to ROH or even the Beer Money MCMG period in TNA but it's a start and I'm enjoying it. Not quite sure where they go next but hopefully it will involve The KOW.

Ryder vs Ziggler.
This wasn't great. I'm just not a Ryder fan. He hasn't shown enough in the ring yet for me to get behind him. Fair play to him he is over. Ziggler can make anyone look awesome there's no doubt. This goes for the tag match too and he probably is up there as the best seller in the company. The guy can be huge if booked right and I'm glad he kept the belt here

Divas match
I actually didn't know what Eves music sounds like... That's always a bad start. As Divas matches go this was pretty sound. Eve is pretty technically sound I just don't care about her character. She has to be more than just gorgeous because they have plenty of girls like that.

Sheamus vs Christian
Average match. These two have been putting on good matches and I like Sheamus's push as they're taking their time making him look great. I assume he'll take the belt from Henry and I'm happy with that. This match though just wasn't up to their standard and I feel like we've maybe just seen it one time too many.

HHH Punk vs Awesome Truth
The match itself was a bit dull the finish was predictable. This is all just build up to something else and I hope it pays off but I have my doubts. Nash looked in good shape though but there's always the potential he runs across the ring too hard and pulls a muscle or something.

Orton vs Rhodes
Again just wasn't a great match. I don't get why Orton had to go over. He doesn't know it. I think these two could be gold but not at the moment. Rhodes needs to dominate the IC title scene for a while before being put in the ring with folk like Orton unless he's going to go over.

Henry vs Show
A typical match from these two. Exactly what you'd expect with the exciting ending. I liked the point someone made where at least WWE are consistent in having the ring collapse whenever Show is superplexed. It's a nice spot but I just think that image will always be associated with Lesnar in my head and I think that overshadows it.

Cena vs Del Rio
This had it's moments but in general was predictable and not that great. Cena needs to be moved onto his stuff with the Rock but he can't go over cleanly in a Last Man Standing Match. I mean they couldn't even let him stay down for more than a second over 10. I know it's been said a million times but Cena's lack of selling really annoys me. One second he can hardly stand next second he's running around like he's fresh. It just takes something away from the match. I expect that when watching Indy wrestling but not in the WWEs main events.

Overall
Meh don't care about this show at all. We got it for free in the UK so at least I didn't pay but I still stayed up till four and sleeping would have been a better option. Nash is back which isn't that thrilling and apart from that nothing really happened... At least nothing with long term implications. On a side note and again it's been said million of times but I'm fed up of the commentary. I really hope Booker's playing a character and he's not that thick. Plus Cole just needs to shut up about JR. His character is just annoying and not in a good way. So all in all a C and only that because of a decent tag match.

Edit: Actually there is something that excites me about it... I really want that HBK Bret Hart DVD looks awesome.
 
As soon as henry and big show broke the ring from the suplex from the top rope, mark immediately made yet another defining moment in his career i think it was brilliant and even the non wrestling fan had to cheer in awe whether it was an imploded ring or not, it was just impressive to see live or on playback.

Other than an injured hhh storyline which can lead to a punk nash feud...there was nothing else great about the pay per view... "the natural, the show stealer" Dolph Ziggler could have stole the show if he also won the tag belts in dramatic fashion with a worked injured jack swagger midway through the match
 
I think we should just be patient for Punk's push to come back. He'll probably be in the big elimination tag at Survivor Series with Cena and Rock. I see Punk and Del Rio both getting counted out or disqualified in that match. This will set up their feud. I can see Del Rio defending successfully at TLC, and then dropping the belt to Punk at the Rumble. I'm not bothered so much about Punk not turning out to be Austin 2.0, at least nor for now anyway. I enjoy watching him WRESTLE more than anything, so the more on-screen time he has, the better, regardless. I think people like him as a heel or face, even more so now since the "Summer of Punk." Bottom line, I think WWE is finally realizing that he's a major draw and I think we'll see him going into WM 28 as WWE champion.
 
@CM Pancake

That is the most accurate Internet Fan posting I've read in the longest time. Thank you for dropping some knowledge...because you're right.

CM Punk IS at the top of the food chain. Someone on a different thread claimed that the match last night "buried" CM Punk. I found it funny.

Let's be real. CM Punk is, as far as this website claims, is beating John Cena in merch. CM Punk doesn't need squat to "get over". He's "been over". This thread might have been relevant in July. Now? Now it's just people acting as if CM Punk never won a historic, 5 star match in July. It never happened. The merchandise he's sold isn't real. The "ice-cream bars" reference doesn't exist. You guys are right. His time is NOW! So he better act, or he might miss it...

I'm starting to think that the IWC is just a few steps behind, but too smarmy to admit it...
 
The show had too few hits and too few misses to do the regular Hits and Misses I do for WWE shows. The truth being, the action on the card was pretty good. From an in-ring standpoint, there was little to complain about. But the way storylines were pushed and stories were told left alot to be lacking here, and Booker just continues to be a cancer to the show. Either he's playing a gimmick where he's dumb, or Vince isn't very smart by continuing to employ him to contradict himself and call "Spinebusters" "Sidewalk Slams". The three PPV's in five weeks simply caught up to WWE here, as the in-ring work was good, but few storylines were furthered or developed, other then Cena vs Awesome Truth.

Air Boom(c) d. Dolph Ziggler and Jack Swagger: I was shocked when Ziggler and Swagger didn't go over here, as it hurts Vickie's stable and losing their second shot at the title obviously leaves them at no position for a third chance. I believed they would do one of two things with Ziggler: Put both belts on him like Miz, or take the US off. They did neither, so he's back where he started, with no character development. But that's where my beef ends.

This was an excellent opener, one of the best Ive seen from WWE in a long time. They teased quite a few false finishes, each believable nearfalls. Air Boom continues to progress as a true team, which is beneficial to the tag team division. Ziggler and Swagger looked impressive as well. I was surprised to see Ziggler take the pinfall, as he clearly has the more upside of the two. In all, great bell to bell action that was the perfect choice by WWE to start the PPV. All four men are growing on me as storytellers in the ring. ***1/4

Dolph Ziggler(c) d. Zach Ryder: Another nice touch by WWE in having Ziggler follow his tag title match with his US title defense. I fear this leaves him in the same place he was before, but he could blame Swagger for not saving him in their tag match and perhaps branching out on his own. It seems Dolph has a new finisher- The Superkick- So let the comparisons to HBK continue. Ryder himself was impressive on offense, but it made sense from a WWE standpoint for Ziggler to retain after Ryder had pinned him twice on television. In the end, the odds became too much for Ryder to overcome, and there's a subtle storyline tease in there with Swagger helping Ziggler retain through distractions here but not being available to break up the double finisher combo or the pin in the tag match. Id like to see a longer bout from these two, as they worked very well together. **

Beth Phoenix(c) d. Eve One of the better wrest;ed women's matches Ive seen in WWE in sometime, to be honest. I expected the typical Eve match- Great athleticism with some blown spots. But Eve and Beth worked fluidly together, and while I didn't buy into the idea of Eve winning the title, I did buy into the nearfall of the GlamSlam counter. This was easily my favorite Eve match, and she worked hard to match offense effectively with Beth Combined with the backstage segment, this keeps the Nattie/Beth vs Eve/Kelly storyline alive. This is a good thing, as there's nowhere else to go in a very shallow women's division. **1/4

Sheamus d Christian: This match just seemed to be lacking something. For the feud to continue, Christian needed to get the win over Sheamus. Sheamus has the larger upside, but he's not moving into the title picture yet, it appears. The match was well designed and well-wrestled, as Christian hung with Sheamus for nearly 15 minutes. It was a case of two pros having a very good match, but it nothing to affect either's standing. Perhaps it moves Sheamus up the ladder for a title match, but why didnt his victory at Hell in A Cell do that? Christian looks like a weak #2 or #3 heel as a result of cleanly jobbing at both PPV's. But there was good action with some nice nearfalls from two dependable wrestlers. **3/4.

The Miz/R-Truth vs HHH/CM Punk: My least favorite match of the night. Miz and Truth needed the win far more then Punk and HHH did, and Punk and HHH were protected. But how was it that Nash attacked HHH and the ref just let the distraction go? This would have been a nice time for the heels to outsmart Punk and HHH and get the dirty win, but the finish took all the shine off of them, and put the focus on HHH/Nash. The SCF/downward spiral combo finisher was nice, but most of the match was boring in my eyes. The right team won, but how they got there and the match itself left alot to be desired. *3/4.

Randy Orton d Cody Rhodes: In the theme of the night, this was a well-wrestled match. However, this win does nothing for Randy Orton, and damages Cody Rhodes. Cody finally has a chance to move into a major heel spot, but Orton kicks out of all three of his signature/finisher moves, even off a distraction from one of Cody's bagmen. It sends the message that Rhodes has no chance to hang with Orton, and that shouldn't be so as his former protege. I have two theories as to Orton's win:First, with both heels retaining in the main event slots, WWE wanted a babyface to go over somewhere near the top of the card. Second, they may not wanted to have the company's #2 face lose on three straight PPV's. Understandable, but why not move Orton and Rhodes lower on the card, and put Sheamus/Christian here? Sheamus is closer to the title picture then Orton right now it seems, so why not give him the higher spot? But as with all Orton matches in the past year, I enjoyed the action and how fluid Orton is in the ring. This match really got good when it kicked into 2nd and 3rd gear, and Rhodes did look impressive at this point when on offense. The RKO out of nowhere spot is getting overused, however, and is no longer a surprise. The bottom line is I don't like Rhodes taking the loss to one big move from Orton when Orton kicked out of 3 strong moves from Rhodes. A well wrestled match, nonetheless. **3/4.

Mark Henry(c) vs Big Show: The match was slow, plodding, and as boring as I expected in the first five minutes. I expected them to go the Show route as they do for every title match of his these days, which is the DQ or the countout. I was pleasantly surprised after the first 5 minutes, as both men moved and bumped better then I'd expected. And obviously, the spot of the night came when Henry superplexed Show off the turnbuckle, and they ring broke. This is a realistic way of portraying the two, as they way near 1000 lbs combined. It was at least as realistic as the Lesnar/Show superplex, for those not familar.

[YOUTUBE]n6LVHPbhQ6w[/YOUTUBE]
For those who didn't watch or were too young at the time, they've done the same spot before. Im sure we'll get the comparisons and complaints, but it was 2004, and it's a realistic spot with someone of Big Show's size. I can't say Im excited about the feud continuing, but this was far better then I expected from the two, and the ring breaking was an impressive sight, to say the least. **1/2

Alberto Del Rio(c) d. John Cena in a Last Man Standing Match: A few good things of note here. Even with all the reports Cena would be leaving the championship picture, the first four title matches ending with the title being retained along with Del Rio getting 75% of the offense made for a suspensful match. There were several near 10 counts on both men, and Del Rio needed this win. The SuperCena complaints don't hold water here, even after he responded to the Miz/Truth double SCF/DownwardSpiral finisher, because he had a ten count. The title belt off the skull following made for a more realistic finish.

The match undoubtably had a big match/main event feel. The realism of them comntinuing with the match despite the collapsed ring added to this match's realism, something I can't praise enough. But the problem that arose for me is that I simply don't buy into Del Rio as champion. I know he's a heel, but he's beaten many opponents clean before. Im a huge John Cena mark, but as the top babyface, what would it have done for Del Rio to truly validate him as champion without interference? His offense simply doesn't look comparable to or as strong as Cena's, so while I bought the near counts by Cena on Del Rio, I never did with Del Rio on Cena, until he had interference. That's not a good thing, even for a heel champion. I enjoyed the match, as it truly was suspensful. But this was Cena's weakest LMS opponent(Edge, Umaga and Batista being the others), and the weakest of his LMS matches. In the end, I still don't buy Del Rio as champion. On the plus side, we have an interesting feud beginning with Awesome Truth and John Cena, and likely John Laurinitis as well. ***1/4.

Final Thoughts: This was a good match from a wrestling standpoint. To that end, the only match where I didn't get into the action was HHH/Punk vs Miz/Truth, which was surprisingly a boring match. While I enjoyed the ring work, there were several outcomes I groaned at, especially the Rhodes/Orton match. As for the main event? It had its good and its bad moments, but it was nothing special as compared to Cena's other LMS matches, and Del Rio simply isn't far enough developed as a main event heel to win with that much interference, regardless of the offense he got in. Honestly, I don't like Del Rio, but do I want to see him fail? Absolutely not. With regards to recommending to someone to order the replay? I can't. Nothing stood out as special about the show, other then a few spots, such as the Show/Henry superplex. It's just not enough, and it's the curse of having 3 shows in 5 weeks. All the action in the world can't make up for the lost storyline development here. Still, this was enjoyable from an in-ring standpoint for me from top to bottom. B-
 
I'm starting to get the feeling that the WWE has no idea how to use CM Punk. I think they should turn him heel and join Miz, Truth, Nash as their leader and mastermind behind all of the chaos.
 
They did a pretty good job with this show considering they only had a couple of weeks to advertise it after Hell In a Cell. The tag team match was a solid choice for an opener and I thought it was the second best match of the night other than Sheamus/Christian. Ryder not winning the US Championship was disappointing and this means Mason will probably be getting it instead. Ziggler's beyond the first two matches of a PPV at this point, move him up the card, WWE! The divas match was better than the Beth/Kelly matches so that's a bit of a plus, and Beth retained as she should have. Sheamus/Christian was my pick for match of the night and I hope their feud continues. Miz & Truth defeating Punk & Trips will keep the conspiracy angle alive, especially with Nash being back now. Orton/Rhodes was not as good as I'd thought it would be, I think it was more of a preview of what's to come though.

Then it happened. Mark Henry, of all people, stole the show. He didn't do it with his match though, he did it by destroying the ring with Big Show. I remember the last time that happened with Lesnar and I never thought I'd see it happen again. Big Show will probably get a rematch. Leaving the ring destroyed for Alberto/Cena was a nice touch and they had a good Last Man Standing match that helped Del Rio look stronger as a champion. I think they could have done more with this show, but considering they had only two weeks to make a show and this is what they provided us, I think they did good. Nothing groundbreaking happened (even the ring breaking happened once before with Lesnar) but the show was worth seeing because we saw some decent matches and a cool moment in the ring collapse. No title changes though, not even one? Ryder should have won.

DAGGER'S PPV REVIEW
B
 
I'm starting to get the feeling that the WWE has no idea how to use CM Punk. I think they should turn him heel and join Miz, Truth, Nash as their leader and mastermind behind all of the chaos.

This is quite possibly the dumbest, dumbest, dumbest post I've seen in a while. One, why the flying fuck would you turn Punk heel when he's just starting to get major traction as an anti-hero face? That just doesn't make sense and the crowd just wouldn't go with it.

Two. Are you seriously suggesting that Punk be the mastermind? Seriously? Were you not there for Summerslam when Nash Jacknived Punk allowing Del Rio to get the title the first time? Or when Miz and Truth jumped Trips and Punk at NOC, ultimately costing Punk the match? Or when Punk was caught in the beatdown that Miz and Truth did to everyone at Hell In A Cell? There is no reason to make Punk the mastermind other than it to be an out of nowhere revelation, and he reason it's out of nowhere is because it doesn't make any fucking sense.

Now, as for the PPV itself, I'm somewhat disappointed mostly because the match I was looking forward to the most, Rhodes and Orton, wasn't as good as I thought it was going o be, though it was cool to see Rhodes break out the moonsault. Still, Cena and Del Rio was better than I expected, and for the first time Del Rio actually looked like a champion. Still, match of the night was definitely Henry/Show. That Superplex was just awesome.
 
It's time for the Patriot to drop some pipe bombs.

I wanted to address a few points.

Firstly CM Punk. The majority of folk in here are complaining, the Punk's momentum is killed off, that Punk should just return to being a heel, that Punk is being buried, that he should be the champion... Ladies & gents, Rome wasn't built in a day, you should remember that.

CM Punk is a 5 time world heavyweight champion, had a 5 star match, 2 times money in the bank winner, ecw champion, intercontinental champion, tag team champion. He is also amidst the biggest angle currently on WWE TV, an angle that is superseding the WWE championship.

Thus being the case, why does CM Punk need to hold the WWE title during WWE's off season? The last 3 months have been building up to Survivor Series, which will hopefully be a big pay off, that CM Punk will be apart of. The guy is likely going to team with:
1. John Cena (biggest guy in the company today)
2. The Rock (possibly the biggest superstar of all time)
3. Triple H (a guy the business has revolved around for 10 years)

How is this being punished???????

Following this, we know that he will be the challenger to ADR. Del Rio needs credibility to become a full time main event heel, and being the WWE champion is the way to do that, and screwing over the top 2 guys on RAW - Cena and Punk - is the way of doing that. The payoff will be greater when Punk does win the belt, and Punk can then run into Wrestlemania as WWE champion which is a great honour.

Next pipe bomb is Zach Ryder.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind Ryder and I'm happy to see the guy getting air time. However, is he ready to hold a championship? No, he isn't.

Why on earth would you take a belt of Dolph Ziggler, a guy who is bringing prestige back to a title, and building himself up as a top guy for the company in the future, and give it to the modern day Santino Marella.

Ziggler has mega star written all over him, and defending that championship, holding onto that championship pushes him to that point, allows him to get over and allows him to build up his promo skills. Get this guy on twitter, you will see he oozes personality.

Zach Ryder can become a mid card guy, but he needs to be built up. The same way it took Ziggler about 6 months on smackdown to finally win the intercontinental championship. Sure, the pop might not be as large at the time because your expecting him to finally win, but when he does win, he's credible. I'm sorry but Ryder is not a credible champion at the moment and he does not deserve to hold the belt in place of guys like, R Truth, Morrison, Swagger, Alex Riley, Mason Ryan etc etc.

If you want Ryder to be a champion, he should find a tag team partner and get over that way before chasing singles glory.
 
Really enjoyed that PPV!
Someone asks why Ziggler wrestlea twice in one night?? Bcos he is one of the most reliable workers in the company atm and Vince is obviosuly high on him and rightfully so. Glad he didnt lose the title, although im happy with a ryder push i think ziggy needs it for a little longer before pushing on to main event!

The Henry V Show match was suprisingly good and the spot was awesome even though its been done before, where has this Mark Henry been for 15 years? He looks great recently.

match of the night for me was ADR V Cena. Really suprised me because normally i dont like these type of matches, thought ADR looked really good and there were some good spots! Happy ADR won and with him likely being in the SS traditional match i think we will see a decent title run for him.

Looking forward to RAW and SS now!!
 
I really enjoyed Christian v Sheamus. I have always been a fan of the former Christian Cage, and he impressed me once again here. He really is a sold performer, who can work with anyone and is extremely valuable to the 'E in my opinion.

However, I have never reallllly been that impressed with Sheamus. I get he is big and strong but he never entertained me. BUT, I loved his work in this match. Slowly but surely he is growing on me, and I am looking forward to seeing these 2 clash again in the near future.

Also, Nash showing up and nailing the Jacknife on Trips was awesome. It was a bit of a mark out moment for me, always been a massive fan of the jacknife. I hope we see Big Sexy stick around for a while this time.
 
I am referring to how Dolph Ziggler wrestled TWICE at "Vengeance" last night, I don't think it was necessary.

Now, before people hate on me for bagging their boy, let me explain. It is not because it was Dolph Ziggler. I don't think that ANY guys should have two matches a night the same night.

I remember Kurt Angle fighting a KOTR SF, The KOTR Final AND a Streetfight with Shane all at KOTR 2001. What I noticed was that Kurt kept himself back somewhat in the first two matches, and then went all out in the Streetfight. Also, Chris Benoit has doubled up on PPV, for example Badd Blood 2004.

Now, Kurt and Chris are two of the finest wrestlers I have ever seen, and they rarely put in bad matches. But, if you wrestle more than once during the night, the quality of one of your matches is affected. Either you hold back earlier, and then go all out (like Angle in the example above), or like I heard reported about Dolph Ziggler in his second match last night,(that the quality dropped because he had just come off a match) (NB I had to go by reports, as I didn't order "Vengeance").

Doubling-up can cause three main problems.

1) Risk of injury:- Sure, you can get injured in any match. But the likelihood increases with fatigue. It is only natural that the more matches someone fights during a week, the more fatigued they get, and the greater risk of injury. Restricting talent to one match a show is less risky than fighting multiple matches.

2) Match quality is affected:- Like I said above, it is hard to expect that someone, no matter how good they are (and Angle and Benoit were very good), can wrestle at their optimum more than once a night.

3) It robs someone else of having the match. When someone wrestles twice, it prevents someone else from having the spot. Couldn't they have done it that Dolph wrestle one of the matches, and someone else wrestle the other? Hey, Daniel Bryan (MITB Winner) isn't doing anything. Why not push him up and fight Ryder in a No. 1 Contender's Match for Ziggler's title (and have the title match be the next night on "Raw"). It helps promote them, gives someone a PPV spot, and protects Ziggler from increased risk of injury.

Cashing in MITB the same night as a match is different, as it is a surprise and most "cash-in" matches last a minute or two, where the MITB winner hardly extends himself (as his opponent is "beaten up"). Other than that, then "doubling-up" shouldn't really be used).
 
I am referring to how Dolph Ziggler wrestled TWICE at "Vengeance" last night, I don't think it was necessary.

Now, before people hate on me for bagging their boy, let me explain. It is not because it was Dolph Ziggler. I don't think that ANY guys should have two matches a night the same night.

I remember Kurt Angle fighting a KOTR SF, The KOTR Final AND a Streetfight with Shane all at KOTR 2001. What I noticed was that Kurt kept himself back somewhat in the first two matches, and then went all out in the Streetfight. Also, Chris Benoit has doubled up on PPV, for example Badd Blood 2004.

Now, Kurt and Chris are two of the finest wrestlers I have ever seen, and they rarely put in bad matches. But, if you wrestle more than once during the night, the quality of one of your matches is affected. Either you hold back earlier, and then go all out (like Angle in the example above), or like I heard reported about Dolph Ziggler in his second match last night,(that the quality dropped because he had just come off a match) (NB I had to go by reports, as I didn't order "Vengeance").

Doubling-up can cause three main problems.

1) Risk of injury:- Sure, you can get injured in any match. But the likelihood increases with fatigue. It is only natural that the more matches someone fights during a week, the more fatigued they get, and the greater risk of injury. Restricting talent to one match a show is less risky than fighting multiple matches.

2) Match quality is affected:- Like I said above, it is hard to expect that someone, no matter how good they are (and Angle and Benoit were very good), can wrestle at their optimum more than once a night.

3) It robs someone else of having the match. When someone wrestles twice, it prevents someone else from having the spot. Couldn't they have done it that Dolph wrestle one of the matches, and someone else wrestle the other? Hey, Daniel Bryan (MITB Winner) isn't doing anything. Why not push him up and fight Ryder in a No. 1 Contender's Match for Ziggler's title (and have the title match be the next night on "Raw"). It helps promote them, gives someone a PPV spot, and protects Ziggler from increased risk of injury.

Cashing in MITB the same night as a match is different, as it is a surprise and most "cash-in" matches last a minute or two, where the MITB winner hardly extends himself (as his opponent is "beaten up"). Other than that, then "doubling-up" shouldn't really be used).

Yes, it does run the risk of injury, but I really don't mind it, if it happens every once in awhile. However, you forgot one other person. What about Jericho? He became the first undisputed champion by "doubling up". I think that they only did it for IWC to begin with
 
If there is a story line reason why someone is wrestling twice a night I'm fine with it. As for injury sure if they are some out of shape fatty maybe. But these guys are in shape and know what they are doing. Someone can get injured 2 mins into a match or at the very end. What's the difference in wrestling 2 20 minute matches and one hour long match. So I don't think fatigue is that big of a problem.

People can have good matches against different people in one night. Bret had 3 at KOTR. It is just up to the wrestler to be able to put together a good match with different people.
 
At times it does a great job getting people over or advancing the storyline though, with the exception of some "swerved" booking like Jericho at Unforgiven 08 and Edge at No Way Out at 09, such instances should be very rare.

An example of getting people more over by having multiple matches is Kurt Angle at KOTR 2001, he not only had the KOTR tournament to worry about but had to wrestle Shane McMahon in a brutal street fight. A lot of people saw this match as Angle's "coming out" and people started to take him more seriously.
 
I never liked it when Superstars are in multiple matches in one night except for Tournaments, where multiple matches are the theme of the evening. I really did not like what took place at WWE No Mercy 2007, where Triple H was in three matches, whereas Randy Orton was only in two. I thought it was “unfair” for HHH to have one match more than Orton that night. This is similar to how Rey Mysterio lost the WWE Title to Cena after beating the Miz for the Title on Raw this past July. Another example, at the Royal Rumble, when a Superstar has a match already, he should not be included in the Royal Rumble match inself.

There are a few exceptions to this opinion of mine. One example is TNA No Surrender 2007. In this case, I loved it when Kurt Angle had not just 3 matches in one night, but 3 Title matches in one night. I know, it’s the same thing technically, but one, it’s Kurt Angle. Two, he had 3 different Championships (4 if you count the original TNA Legends / Global / Television Championship, the IWGP Title. Three, he had 3 different challengers. Four, it’s Kurt Angle.

I guess it depends on how they run the storyline, but in general, I don’t like it when a Superstar has more than one match a night, unless it’s a Tournament.
 

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