WWE is in serious trouble once the older talent retires....

hlhbk

Occasional Pre-Show
Let me preface this post by saying I have watched wrestling since I was 12 years old back in 93. I watched WWF/WWE, WCW, ECW, TNA, ROH, and have been to a ton of live shows and have met quite a few people and have friends in the biz. That being said something has become abundantly clear in the last month or so while watching WWE. They are going to be in trouble when the older wrestlers have to retire.

Going back to Wrestlemania 22 the WWE has been trying to force the younger wrestlers to step up and transition from the older garb. Of all the wrestlers they have tried to force on their fans the ones that really have stepped up in my opinion are Orton, CM Punk, Bastia for a short time, The Miz, and to a lesser extent Cena since in my opinion he has been forced down our throats and the long time fans have never accepted him.

This has really been displayed going back to when HBK came out in Nashville after being announced for the HOF, through Rock coming back back last week, and Taker and HHH returning this week. Let's look at these individually:

HBK return: It was a one night deal for now but he was the one spark on a abysmal show and didn't even speak. The guy he humiliated went on to win the Rumble....

Rock return: In that one promo the Rock completely shattered any and all progress the WWE had made with it's younger stars. Rock showed how far the WWE has fallen in the last 5 years in regards to overall promo and controlling the audience. His ignoring the PG rating opened up for the most entertaining Cena promo in years this past week on RAW. To bad his coments after never going away didn't even stay true for a week....

Taker/HHH return: These two guys completely stole the show last Monday night. I love HHH but I never thought he would out pop the Undertaker. This is my most anticpated Wrestlemania match by far.

By pointing these out what I am trying to say is for all the heat HHH used to take for saying he had no problem being on top because the younger guys weren't stepping up he was completely right. Let's take a look at the top younger star's over the last 5 years:

Orton: Was great as a bad guy but he needs to have a evolution as a character. If not he won't stay on top.

Miz: Love what he has done. One of the best on the mic right now and is great in the ring. WWE should be thankful he came along.

CM Punk: Is great but for whatever reason he hasn't found the single story to propel him as being seen as the man in the WWE.

Batista: Was great while it lasted. He was older when he started and just burned out.

Ken Anderson: Firing him was one of the biggest mistakes WWE has made. If they had allowed him to continue to progress his character like TNA has he would be the top guy in the WWE right now.

John Cena: While I will never be sold on his in ring ability I will never say he isn't entertaining on the mic when done right. I won't say that Cena was forced on us when he was the rapping Cena and was one of the hottest wrestlers in the WWE when he was on Smackdown. That being said once he moved to RAW and was turned into Hogan Jr. it has been puke worthy.

So WWE had better figure out what they are gonig to do. It looks like Hunter's last hurrah is at Wrestlemania. Taker won't last much longer, and HBK and Rock will be gone after Wrestlemania. Looking forward to everyone's thoughts here.
 
Yes I agree. I don't think they're in serious trouble but its darn well close.

Being that I haven't watched the WWE in months, I was stunned watching a WWE commercial advertising Elimination Chamber. All of the superstars for both elimination chambers included cena, morrison, miz, punk, orton, mysterio, sheamus, kane, wade barret, big show, R-truth and Edge. Pretty solid but getting old and they won't be around forever. You also have to like the upside Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, and Del Rio brings.

But the guys under them scare the shit out of me: McIntyre, R-Truth, Kozlov, Heath Slater, Justin Gabriel, Cody Rhodes, DiBiase, Kofi Kingston, and Jack Swagger. Once the older stars retire I feel very unconfident on these superstars carrying the company one day. So thats why there's a new part of me where I don't want to see the veteran guys go just yet. Looks like there's going to be a day where the WWE is going to be forced to rebuild and forced to push younger guys instead of slowly if they keep the veteran guys around forever but in the end I sort of feel its necessary. I'm not completely convinced, with upside and potential out of the way of course, that these guys can be big level stars. Hope I'm wrong.
 
I really don't think the WWE is in any major trouble.

Triple H has been gone for a year, and it hasn't made a difference.
Shawn Michaels is already retired.
The Rock has been gone for seven years.
The Undertaker hasn't wrestled a full schedule in years.

Cena and Orton are not going anywhere for a while.

Sheamus, CM Punk, Del Rio, The Miz, Morrison, Kofi Kingston, Daniel Bryan, Wade Barrett, Drew McIntyre, Ted DiBiase, Cody Rhodes, Zack Ryder are all very young, and have not come even close to reaching their potential yet.

I think the future of the business is promising.
 
Chris I think you are missing my point:

Those guys being gone over the last almost year or more has made a huge difference. It was bad before but it's even worse now.
 
I get where you're coming from....but I think they have plenty of time to develop the new talent.

You started watching wrestling in 1993, which was one of the biggest trouble spots of the WWE. They lost Hogan and Flair, McMahon was being brought up on steroid charges. Randy Savage was the biggest star in the company, and he was doing commentary. We had Lex Luger, Tatanka, Ludvig Borga, Crush, and Doink in major roles in the company at that point. But there were bright spots - Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, Owen Hart, Razor Ramon, and Diesel all stepped into the spotlight during this time. Looking back, that looks AMAZING....but at the time, they were a bunch of young guys who really hadn't come into their own yet.

The WWE is at their best when their backs are against the wall. The time period I referenced, forced them to establish new stars - and those stars knocked it out of the park.

The "attitude era" came about due to necessity. Austin, The Rock, Mick Foley, Triple H, Kane, Edge, Christian, the Hardys....these guys all became huge stars during this time - because the WWE had no other choice. I'm sure if Hall & Nash & Hogan were still in the WWE at that time, we wouldn't have seen any change to the WWE product and the business wouldn't have risen to the heights that it did.

I agree, the WWE is lacking star power - but they are certainly not lacking in potential.
We might never see another Hogan or Rock or Austin - but those guys were truly special cases.
 
I agree, the WWE is lacking star power - but they are certainly not lacking in potential.
We might never see another Hogan or Rock or Austin - but those guys were truly special cases.

i have been lurking on the forums forever, but just registered for the sole reason of saying this is the most logical post i have ever seen on here.

the changing of the guard has already happened and wwe is doing fine. all these guys coming back (austin, rock, hbk, diesel, booker, etc...) are solely for short term nostalgia purposes and it is totally obvious.
 
Have to disagree with HHH's assessment about having no trouble being on top because of lack of younger talent. The younger members of the roster aren't going to better themselves until they get in there and do it and they won'd learn how to handle the exposure until they get it. How many have come and gone who did great in "training" or in matches from FCW and OVW but got a bad case of "deer in headlights syndrome" when they got called up to the main roster? Remember Nathan Jones anybody? The young people are going to make mistakes but they need the chance to learn and to fine-tune their mic skills and their in-ring work. It's more than doubly hard now because there are so many "older generation" who, at some point, either injury-related or "it's time," will be leaving and WWE is going to find too many spots needing filled at the same time. If HHH and others like him hadn't hogged so much time and so much spotlight, it might have allowed at least 1 or 2 people the opportunity to progress. If what they had at the time didn't, WWE still had time to look, recruit, and teach. Instead, look what they did and look where it got them.
 
Chris I see what you are saying but let's really look back at the two time frames you bring up:

93: Well before Hogan was gone anyone who remotely watched the product realized that the undercard was carrying the WWF. HBK, Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Razor, Diesel, and others were having great matches already even though they weren't stop dogs.

97-98: The attitude era. Again the undercard was stepping up before they were forced to. Until the Hitman was gone the top spots were to Nash, Hall, Taker, Bret, and Shawn. That being said Austin, Rock, Edge, the Hardy's, Foley, Hunter were all stepping up and making people take notice of them, and were ready to take the main event spot light when it became available.

Now lets take a look at the current product as it stood after Wrestlemania 22 and where it stands now along with the undercard when Cena made hunter tap and offically launched the youth movement:

Top guys were HBK, HHH, Batista, Taker, Edge, Foley, JBL, Big show, Orton and to lesser extent Cena.

The top current guys in my opinon that are full time on tv are: Cena, Orton, CM Punk, Edge, Miz.

The under card which the top guys are: Del rio (who is terrible), Sheamus (who is terrible), Morrison (has the talent but hasn't stepped up), Kingston (will always be mid card), Danyiel Brian (won't do anything until his character is used correctly like he was during NXT). None of these guys have stepped up at all. There is nobody you or I listed that I look at them and say that they could step up and be people to lead the next generation of the WWE.

A person who has stepped up like it or not is the Miz. He unlike the people we both listed has "it" and the WWE luckily took notice. Other than that nobody in the young undercard has stepped up.

Until that happens the WWE is in HUGE trouble.
 
Have to disagree with HHH's assessment about having no trouble being on top because of lack of younger talent. The younger members of the roster aren't going to better themselves until they get in there and do it and they won'd learn how to handle the exposure until they get it. How many have come and gone who did great in "training" or in matches from FCW and OVW but got a bad case of "deer in headlights syndrome" when they got called up to the main roster? Remember Nathan Jones anybody? The young people are going to make mistakes but they need the chance to learn and to fine-tune their mic skills and their in-ring work. It's more than doubly hard now because there are so many "older generation" who, at some point, either injury-related or "it's time," will be leaving and WWE is going to find too many spots needing filled at the same time. If HHH and others like him hadn't hogged so much time and so much spotlight, it might have allowed at least 1 or 2 people the opportunity to progress. If what they had at the time didn't, WWE still had time to look, recruit, and teach. Instead, look what they did and look where it got them.

Let me ask you this when Hogan, Savage, Warrior and Flair were on top of the WWF in the early 90's did they graciously back away and let guys like Bret Hart, HBK, and others take their spotlight to get noticed? Hell no they didn't! Those guys stepped up and while being under the shadow of the stop star's FORCED the fans and mcmahon to take notice.

Things were a little different when Rock, Austin, and HHH got their chance. HBK got hurt, Hart got screwed, and Nash and Hall were gone. That being said they were stepping up prior to this happening.

Therefore I agree 100% with what Hunter said. Maybe it wasn't voluntary but he along with other top stars have been gone due to injury and these young guys haven't stepped up. Anyone who thinks otherwise just needs to look at the responses HBK, Rock, Taker, and HHH got the last month or so.

The young guys need to force the audience to take notice of them prior to getting the top. Miz did it, Cena did it before they changed his gimmick, Orton did it, and Batista did it. The young guys need to force their way to the top.
 
Chris I think you are missing my point:

Those guys being gone over the last almost year or more has made a huge difference. It was bad before but it's even worse now.

They had to do a little reshuffling out of necessity, but I think that's a good thing.

Over the past several years, the WWE has relied too heavily on the same 'inner circle' of established stars and they have been reluctant to let younger guys into that circle.

These injuries forced them to go with younger stars and I think the product has been more exciting as a result.

I did not and will not miss seeing HHH squash younger and more talented performers. The sooner he's gone, the better.

And the rash of injuries forced the company to scramble and bring us The Nexus, one of the freshest things they've done since WCW folded.

Sure, it's essentially "on the job training" for developmental talent, but it infused fresh faces into the product.

I hope to see more NXT candidates continue to flow into the main shows.
 
They had to do a little reshuffling out of necessity, but I think that's a good thing.

Over the past several years, the WWE has relied too heavily on the same 'inner circle' of established stars and they have been reluctant to let younger guys into that circle.

These injuries forced them to go with younger stars and I think the product has been more exciting as a result.

I did not and will not miss seeing HHH squash younger and more talented performers. The sooner he's gone, the better.

And the rash of injuries forced the company to scramble and bring us The Nexus, one of the freshest things they've done since WCW folded.

Sure, it's essentially "on the job training" for developmental talent, but it infused fresh faces into the product.

I hope to see more NXT candidates continue to flow into the main shows.

1. HHH didn't squash anyone. If there is anyone you want to blame for that take a look at John Cena. The man since moving to Raw has crushed everyone in his path.

2. Nexus lost all steam for me when the man who should have been the leader of Nexus was fired after their first attack....
 
What exactly are they in trouble from?? Whether what you say is true or not, what's going to happen? WWE will go out of business? Nope. Ratings will drop? Probably, but not much... certainly not enough to jeopardize the company. TNA will catch up? To some extent, but again not enough to jeopardize the company. WWE is safe and sound because they're the only show in town to the vast majority of viewers and have a vast pool of funds that comes from multiple sources.

Further, who is to say the next Austin, Rock or Hogan is even in the company yet? Maybe some fresh rookie this year or next might be the next "it" guy. It's too unpredictable of a business to say for sure. Either way, I definitely wouldn't say they're anywhere near "in trouble".
 
1. HHH didn't squash anyone. If there is anyone you want to blame for that take a look at John Cena. The man since moving to Raw has crushed everyone in his path.

Maybe you should ask the Spirit Squad about that? Trips and his buddy made the company's entire developmental group nothing more than 6 jobbers. Lucky for Ziggler that he survived it.

2. Nexus lost all steam for me when the man who should have been the leader of Nexus was fired after their first attack....

They're still the most exciting thing the WWE has done in the past several years.
 
I think the major problem with the WWE in the lack of depth of new "super stars". In the past wrestlers worked there way up through the territories. For the most part they learned how to wrestle and know their gimmick. Now for an American wrestler you have very few options of ways to get out there. If you go to TNA, the WWE discredits you and has yet to push a person who was first in TNA. (don't say punk, or bryan. They were barely there nor were they focal points.) R-truth and Vance Archer were both champions in TNA and they def wont reach that high in the WWE. Another problem is that they are so obsessed with size. Size is so over rated. I would rather have some one who can wrestle and speak over some one who in some cases cant do either and is just huge. Mason Ryan, Andrew Jackson, the list goes on. FCW does not prepare you to succeed. It just doesn't work. The only way IMO to get good is by going to live events and honing your craft. The FCW crowd is the same building , with the same ppl. These guys for the most part don't know how to get over. Even Nexus only got over because they were thrown down our throat week in and week out. I could argue that they aren't over now, and most of the past/present members may never get over again.
Unless the WWE continues to take ROH best talents I dont see the WWE young crop improving.
 
Spirit squad was horrible prior to running into DX.

They were DEVELOPMENTAL guys still learning their craft. And they were fed into a grinder, having 5 young guys continually job to two old guys - great business model there, and then they wonder why they don't get over?

Nexus has only gotten good since punk took over as their leader.

Nexus has been a breath of fresh air since the first night they brought a bunch of developmental guys out to trash the place.

Now if 'creative' can do their job (yeah, talking to the son-in-law and Stephanie), maybe they can develop some of this young talent for the future.
 
Chris I think you are missing my point:

Those guys being gone over the last almost year or more has made a huge difference. It was bad before but it's even worse now.

It's not that it's worse. WWE has been trying to create new stars. That doesn't happen over night. Takes a long time to establish someone as a credible star and for the fans to accept them. WWE isn't "bad/worse" its transitioning still. Look at it like a basketball team. You have a dominant franchise ok..let's say.. the Chicago Bulls! They have been dominant for years (im speaking of the Jordan era)....Their top guys all left....and they had to re-tool. Now they are back to their winning ways.

WWE is the same way. They had their Jordans, Rodmans, Pippens etc etc. Lost them and now they are trying to get some younger talent into the main event spot light. They have taken necessary steps in establishing their future. Bringing up younger guys, putting them in groups with older. Giving NEW faces titles allowing for them to grow and develop.
WWE has the young talent to lead them for the next decade at least. Guys like:

Evan Bourne
The Miz
Alex Riley
Alberto Del Rio
The Corre
Nexus
The former Hart Dynasty
The Usos
Believe it or not even Santino/Koslov.
Amongst many others.

WWE is, IMO in no way shape or form in any real danger. If they lose all the talent listed above then they will be. But look at all those names people. Some have arrived, others will arrive. Others will be re-invented/repackaged and some may even be sent back to the minors to retool up if need be. WWE has everything in place to help ensure their success now and in the future. Development systems and a successor to the throne in HHH/Stephanie McMahon that understands business and is looking to overhaul the developmental system and make it more effective. If Jim Ross is put into the recruiting position..man the possibilities are ENDLESS. Even if he isn't there is still a huge light at the end of the tunnel. As much as I hate to say it they've even made the ANNOUNCING booth fun to watch. I watch WWE on YouTube every week just to hopefully see King punch Michael "Can I ever get my head out of Miz's @$$ Vintage" Coleslaw's teeth down his throat.

This is the turning point WWE desperately needed in my opinion. A LOT of the older guys are stepping away and that is giving light to new talent.
 
I agree for the most part, WWE does need to figure out what they need to do because most of the drawing power is heading towards the exit.

Now I wouldn't quite say the WWE is in serious trouble because they do have enough talent to cover those guys, but they seriously have to get these people to a point where they can actually draw money.

I see great potential in a lot of WWE's current guys Ziggler, Mcyntire, Sheamus, Barrett, Morrison, Miz and Punk, Orton and Cena still have some good years left on their careers and they can draw money. The problem is they really need more people that can feud with these guys it can't just be these 3 guys at the top of the card they need more drawing power. I think Miz is a great champ but I don't feel he could draw people in if he had to, he's doing great but he's not at the point of being a draw. The same can be said for guys like Barrett, Morrison and Kingston, they are doing well yes, but they aren't at the point of being a draw. Through wise booking these problems can be fixed but I totally agree WWE needs to figure out what to do with these guys because it doesn't matter how much talent you have unless you are bringing people in.
 
Im going to go ahead and disagree. During the year 2010. I thought TNA had more interesting stories. So far in 2011, I've found myself more interested in WWE. Looks like Vince has done a fine job of building his stable of young horses that he is currently developing. He has established veterans to carry the younger guys. He has the ability to build anyone that is willing to work as hard as Vince expects them to. The man has done it for years.

Lets take a look at the Top younger stars of the past Year.

Sheamus, good heel. Future top heel in WWE.

Kofi Kingston, great talent in the ring. May have peaked here at the IC/US title level.

John Morrison, great talent. The guy is currently sky rocketing and mid to late 2011 will be the about the time he puts himself in the title hunt.

Alberto Del Rio while not exactly young, again a great talent. I like the character. Has been in the fast-pass line to the main event at Wrestlmainia since joining the WWE. He will win the Title. Vince will be growing his international audience. Especially after his TV deal with Brazil.

Miz, one of the best heels currently. Doesn't matter if anyone has any preconceived bias against him because of his reality tv fame. In fact, it helps him tremendously.

He just recently got rid of a bunch of people that established themselves in WWE to make room for his "next decade" of talent. He has two TV shows dedicated to audiences developing Fan-relationships with unknown talents. I see no trouble brewing for WWE.

The first season of NXT was injected into the lineup with out any hiccups.

I love Ken Anderson. He is currently my favorite talent in wrestling. But WWE is not in trouble by losing Ken Anderson. It helps TNA a bit. But not enough to worry Vince.

Basically, TNA would have to sign Cena today, not after the next ten years, for Vince to have anything to worry about. And quite frankly I don't think Vince would even worry that much because of his ego.

When the older guys retire. Vince will have already established a new generation of WWE.

WWE "MIGHT" be in trouble when Vince retires. Then and only then will WWE be in serious trouble.
 
I agree to some extent.

I think CM Punk is the best overall talent they have right now and if wrote into the main event with a title run could be certified by most as a top guy, he makes the most out of every promo and is great in the ring

Del Rio is going to be the next big star for years, he's got everything, he will be right behind Cena in a years time, that said lets not forget Del Rio is 33, he's new to WWE but not to wrestling

Miz I'm not sold on yet, I could see him falling without the belt

Daniel Brian I don't see making it above mid card, he just doesn't have the personality to do it, but maybe a character change will make it happen

Sheamus can be big if they do it right

Morrison has been stepping up big time, if they give him a chance on the main event level I think he's ready

kofi, drew (as much as I want to like him), r-truth, so on, will never amount to much
 
What will WWE be in trouble from? Those who are retiring are in a sense "saving" the WWE. WWE finally is putting the focus on younger stars like Sheamus, Dolph Ziggler, CM Punk, among others. These guys are eventually going to become the Triple H's, Shawn Michaels' and Undertaker's of the future. When that happens, the IWC bloggers will be talking about their young stars overtaking the likes of future household names that can be Ziggler, Sheamus, Morrison, Miz, etc. What's happening to WWE is just another stage in the cycle. WWE has had youth movements before. They'll happen again in the future. New stars are made, become veterans, retire. WWE is recycling their talent and has no trouble ahead. What lies ahead could be the best WWE storylines in recent memory.
 
I'd just like to say i've been an avid detractor of WWE since the dawn of the PG era.
I never hated WWE more than right after Michaels retired and the Nexus came in. That, for me, was the absolute worst period in WWE history. Recently with all the comebacks of older guys though i've realized that in the past year the young stars have actually come into their own. I think i like the youth movement in WWE and perhaps WWE has done something right for the first time in a long time by phasing the spotlight hoggers out for a year. Some of you here are complaining about what Triple H or Taker said about the young guys not stepping it up. All i can say to these posters is if you haven't noticed yet the angle brewing between the old WWE guys and the new then you're absolutely blind. It's a work. And it's gonna be a really good angle. I'm back watching WWE again. The Rock coming back has swayed me for good, without someone as big as the Rock WWE just isn't the same. WWE has to hope that The Rock can get Cena or Orton or Miz or anyone closer to his level.

Anyway, regarding the thread, i completely disagree with the OP. The one thing i've noticed in recent weeks is that WWE's young guys are actually holding their own. Wrestling is much more exciting with some of the old guys coming back but then again they're gonna give the rub to the younger guys who've had a whole year to shine on their own. I don't think the old guys will be missed as much if this youth movement is proceeded with right. To me, it's the Cena's and the Edge's that make the WWE product weak. It's always nice to have Kane, Big Show, Jericho, Triple H and Taker on the show, don't get me wrong, but these old guys have held back the youth movement just as Hogan and company did a decade earlier. I think that WWE's younger crop has been groomed right and can have some great feuds with the aforementioned 'older' guys and that will give them the much needed push as being credible stars.
 
I'm sure the same thing was being said when the likes of Hogan, Luger, Savage, Flair left in the early 90's, some of them their first time, for what seemed like greener pastures! "Who is going to be the future?" everyone said. I'm a lot of people didn't expect guys like Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, Issac Yankem/Kane/Fake Diesel, Bret Hart, HHH, Steve Austin and Rocky Maivia to be future legends and carry the company. Well, they did. For several years. When Steve Austin, The Rock and Bret Hart left, the company was carried into the new millennium and beyond by the likes of John "The Prototype" Cena, Kurt Angle, Randy Orton, JBL, Booker T, Edge, Rey Mysterio, Batista and Chris Jericho. Look at the great potential for the future! Sheamus, Wade Barrett, The Miz, John Morrison, Dolph Ziggler, Daniel Bryan Danielson, Drew McIntrye, Ted Dibiase, Cody Rhodes, Kofi Kingston... etc etc. Sure, they aren't marquee names yet, but GIVE IT TIME. Not everything can happen over night. WWE has been GREAT at creating stars. John Cena and Randy Orton WERE NOT overnight sensations. Relax, IWC... relax.
 
you have to remember those 3 letters are very powerful, look at when it went from the hogan, macho man. road warriors, piper days, we thought it was over, then came a young group of guys stone cold, rock, undertaker, hhh, hbk, nash, hall, edge, eddie guerrero, mysterio, and i know i am leaving some guys out. bottom line is they will never be in trouble, they will be good until the company runs out of business if that is possible.
 
It seems like nobody has mentioned Edge or Rey Mysterio yet. I honestly think the two of them have less shelf life then guys like HHH or The Undertaker. Edge's body is barely hanging together and Rey probably wont be able to keep up his high flying nature much longer. I dont think we have to worry about Mysterio since Mistico will come and take his place.

I agree if all the big guys were to retire right now the WWE would be screwed no question but I think they have another 5 years before every big name is gone, 5 years that they can make new stars. Of all the young stars right now I could see Morrison, Punk, Miz, Del Rio, Sheamus, Wade Barrett and Mason Ryan being huge main event stars. In fact Mason Ryan is supposed to take Batistas spot. Not to mention we will have Cena and Orton for another 10 years.

This is a transitional period right now. I think in 3 years time we will have a whole lineup of top stars and established mid carders to carry the company.
 
WWE needs better mid carders, somebody good to feud with Daniel Bryan. Im saying like put Jericho on smackdown, not saying Jericho is a mid carder though, and have some good tussles between the two. Raw's Superstars almost makes people not want to watch smackdown, so bring a few better superstars over to smackdown, like HHH for the rest of RTWM since he's feuding with Taker.

:worship: The Miz because he is AWESOME
 

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