The myth of WWE burying WCW talent

[The Dark Warlords]

I think it is not really about burial as it is, in my mind, about the use of the wrestlers that WWE brought in from WCW. I firmly believe that Jim Cornette said it best when he said that Vince McMahon does not know how to properly push talent that have already been established else where. It can be said that practice is still being done today. One example in my mind is the booking of Paige. not to get long winded, but when she was Britani Knight, she was tearing it up, and showcasing why she is one of the very best omen's wrestlers in the word. Having fantastic matches, especially with her own mother, is why she is considered one of the greatest talents that the wrestling world has to currently offer. Now, as Paige, she is NOW getting the swing of things?! WOW, that is crap if i ever saw it. She should have been allowed to be Britani Knight, and i think think things would be better. I hate when WWE tries to change people, but that will be another post when i get to 10 posts. I think that it should be easier to capitalize on an already existing big name in this business, and push them to the moon instead of trying to develop your own person with the distinct chance that person might wind up being a bust. I think that it should be easier to take someone like Booker T, and make him more of a star just by allowing yourself the time to have studied what made him successful, and make that translate to your product. Same thing goes for DDP, Goldberg, Scott Steiner, and others. WWE did not drop the ball, they could and should have done more with it.

 

[The Dark Warlords]

I think it is not really about burial as it is, in my mind, about the use of the wrestlers that WWE brought in from WCW. I firmly believe that Jim Cornette said it best when he said that Vince McMahon does not know how to properly push talent that have already been established else where. It can be said that practice is still being done today. One example in my mind is the booking of Paige. not to get long winded, but when she was Britani Knight, she was tearing it up, and showcasing why she is one of the very best women's wrestlers in the word. Having fantastic matches, especially with her own mother, is why she is considered one of the greatest talents that the wrestling world has to currently offer. Now, as Paige, she is NOW getting the swing of things?! WOW, that is crap if i ever saw it. She should have been allowed to be Britani Knight, and i think think things would be better. I hate when WWE tries to change people, but that will be another post when i get to 10 posts. I think that it should be easier to capitalize on an already existing big name in this business, and push them to the moon instead of trying to develop your own person with the distinct chance that person might wind up being a bust. I think that it should be easier to take someone like Booker T, and make him more of a star just by allowing yourself the time to have studied what made him successful, and make that translate to your product. Same thing goes for DDP, Goldberg, Scott Steiner, and others. WWE did not drop the ball, they could and should have done more with it.

 

[therockiswwf]

I think it is not really about burial as it is, in my mind, about the use of the wrestlers that WWE brought in from WCW. I firmly believe that Jim Cornette said it best when he said that Vince McMahon does not know how to properly push talent that have already been established else where. It can be said that practice is still being done today. One example in my mind is the booking of Paige. not to get long winded, but when she was Britani Knight, she was tearing it up, and showcasing why she is one of the very best women's wrestlers in the word. Having fantastic matches, especially with her own mother, is why she is considered one of the greatest talents that the wrestling world has to currently offer. Now, as Paige, she is NOW getting the swing of things?! WOW, that is crap if i ever saw it. She should have been allowed to be Britani Knight, and i think think things would be better. I hate when WWE tries to change people, but that will be another post when i get to 10 posts. I think that it should be easier to capitalize on an already existing big name in this business, and push them to the moon instead of trying to develop your own person with the distinct chance that person might wind up being a bust. I think that it should be easier to take someone like Booker T, and make him more of a star just by allowing yourself the time to have studied what made him successful, and make that translate to your product. Same thing goes for DDP, Goldberg, Scott Steiner, and others. WWE did not drop the ball, they could and should have done more with it.

In Jericho's book he mentions that Vince likes to break you down, then mold you back up into his image. He also mentioned that the WWE style was incredibly hard for him to conform to and understand. That is probably why guys established elsewhere have a hard time. They thought they could just do what they already did to get over and be fine. But in WWE, that will not work.

He changes them first so he can own their character or whatever (smart business).

WWE has a style and you have to adapt to it. That's why you just can't come over and be exactly the same as you were. It's why Goldberg wasn't that successful in the WWE. Goldberg could not be the same monster that never talks and has 10 minutes or less matches. Scott Steiner basically was the same way. As a main event guy, you need to able to go 15-20 minutes. You generally need to be good on the mic (many exceptions to this however).

For guys like DDP though, Vince just messed up. I think DDP said he wanted to come in and feud with Rock over who is the true people's champion but Vince was adamant on him being a stalker and that Vince later admitted to DDP that he should have done The Rock feud.

Paige needs to get comfortable and improve on the mic. But at 21, she has a lot of time to improve. So I wouldn't worry about her. Paige has been used pretty well compared to most divas.

Plus Austin was made in WCW (though Austin really broke through because of himself but he was booked pretty good once he got to the top). Eddie Guerrero did pretty well too. Dudleys as well. Foley. Flair. Mysterio (his change helped enormously).

 

[Slash-LN]

In Jericho's book he mentions that Vince likes to break you down, then mold you back up into his image. He also mentioned that the WWE style was incredibly hard for him to conform to and understand. That is probably why guys established elsewhere have a hard time. They thought they could just do what they already did to get over and be fine. But in WWE, that will not work.

He changes them first so he can own their character or whatever (smart business).

WWE has a style and you have to adapt to it. That's why you just can't come over and be exactly the same as you were. It's why Goldberg wasn't that successful in the WWE. Goldberg could not be the same monster that never talks and has 10 minutes or less matches. Scott Steiner basically was the same way. As a main event guy, you need to able to go 15-20 minutes. You generally need to be good on the mic (many exceptions to this however).

For guys like DDP though, Vince just messed up. I think DDP said he wanted to come in and feud with Rock over who is the true people's champion but Vince was adamant on him being a stalker and that Vince later admitted to DDP that he should have done The Rock feud.

Paige needs to get comfortable and improve on the mic. But at 21, she has a lot of time to improve. So I wouldn't worry about her. Paige has been used pretty well compared to most divas.

Plus Austin was made in WCW (though Austin really broke through because of himself but he was booked pretty good once he got to the top). Eddie Guerrero did pretty well too. Dudleys as well. Foley. Flair. Mysterio (his change helped enormously).

Vince and/or Undertaker had heat with DDP. They didn't like the way he carried himself backstage like he was a big time main event guy.

Also there's a story about DDP meeting Vince and hugging him which Vince didn't like. That spawned and angle where Austin hugged Vince. It was a rib on DDP.

DDP also said he felt like the Undertaker didn't give 100% during their feud so it didn't come off as well as he thought it could have.

So really Vince didn't drop the ball on DDP. He just didn't like him. That probably hurt any chance of DDP being bigger than he was in WWE.

DDP was also persistent about writing out his whole matches and then giving copies of them to whoever he was going to face. He did that in WCW and WWE and some people thought he was a joke for it.

So pretty much DDP hurt himself with his behavior.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

In Jericho's book he mentions that Vince likes to break you down, then mold you back up into his image. He also mentioned that the WWE style was incredibly hard for him to conform to and understand. That is probably why guys established elsewhere have a hard time. They thought they could just do what they already did to get over and be fine. But in WWE, that will not work.

He changes them first so he can own their character or whatever (smart business).

WWE has a style and you have to adapt to it. That's why you just can't come over and be exactly the same as you were. It's why Goldberg wasn't that successful in the WWE. Goldberg could not be the same monster that never talks and has 10 minutes or less matches. Scott Steiner basically was the same way. As a main event guy, you need to able to go 15-20 minutes. You generally need to be good on the mic (many exceptions to this however).

For guys like DDP though, Vince just messed up. I think DDP said he wanted to come in and feud with Rock over who is the true people's champion but Vince was adamant on him being a stalker and that Vince later admitted to DDP that he should have done The Rock feud.

Paige needs to get comfortable and improve on the mic. But at 21, she has a lot of time to improve. So I wouldn't worry about her. Paige has been used pretty well compared to most divas.

Plus Austin was made in WCW (though Austin really broke through because of himself but he was booked pretty good once he got to the top). Eddie Guerrero did pretty well too. Dudleys as well. Foley. Flair. Mysterio (his change helped enormously).

Translate this argument to announcers and you get why the WWE style and Vince is so difficult for outsiders to "crack". If you're an announcer, you have Vince constantly in your ear, basically doing your job for you and expecting you to parrot his words, with the inflections and tones he is telling you. In the ring you have Vince giving agents that, who is give it to the wrestlers but you still have Vince on an earpiece in the ref's ear...

Guys from WCW and outside were used to a more free way of working, true "let the heel call" and only going out there with a rough finish... By contrast the micro management of EVERY aspect of a WWE performer's work from their look to their moves to how each match is looking is tough for many to get used to.

Also a lot of guys who came over pre-2001 had a lot of stroke in the way they had been used. Dusty was used to being "the top guy" and basically booking himself. Ric was used to being used a certain way and Vince was not using these guys that way. Look at Harley Race or Terry Funk... They had ALWAYS been booked as a monster, not in the "giant" sense but that they nearly always won, and when losing it was to Flair or Rhodes... in a close fought thing. In WWE both were booked as a comedy jobbers to JYD. Not cos Vince was "dissing" them, but cos there was more value to his guys in beating them than in them beating his lower guys...cos they weren't beating Hogan.

By the time Vader came over even WCW guys were being booked by guys like Bischoff rather than having real stroke... so if Vader had no more stroke in WCW, enough to make him walk he'd have none in WWE against someone like Shawn.

You have to remember even with someone like Paige... her folks were promoting a lot of her early shows and had enough influence to ensure she "looked good". Not taking away from her talent cos it's evident, but without that safety net of her mum on the show she has to fend for herself in WWE. She's done more than fine, it was never going to be an easy ride to the top... barely a year ago there was talk of her still being too young for the roster... so that she has had one reign and is now in a good feud is a good thing... at 21 she has easily 10 more years in the WWE if she wants them...

Vince didn't bury Vader, indeed he gave him a MONSTER push when he debuted... for those who forget his first angle was the one that wrote Gorilla off TV when he was sick... anyone who knows how respected Monsoon was knows that was a BIG honor for a new guy to be given.

Somewhere between then and Summerslam 96, something happened, either Shawn convinced VKM that Sid was a better option or Vader did something that made Vince doubt him...

There was one window for Sting in WWE that would have actually worked. 1994. Hogan in to WCW, Sting out to WWE. Had Sting gone in there, while Luger was there, while Bret/Owen was the top feud and basically been pushed INSTEAD of Nash to that title. Then he had a legit shot... I guess by then Luger was on a downer on WWE and put him off... I actually think 2 things derailed it.

Rude's injury - Rick Rude was headed back to WWE when he got hurt in Japan against Sting... He didn't want any part of the Hogan WCW and knew in WWE he would get a strong push against Bret Hart and Shawn. He had proven himself and the obstacles he had faced in Hogan and Warrior were no longer there. There were also untapped feuds with Randy Savage and Lex Luger... and Sting would have followed him I am sure... because Rude and Sting were gold in the ring together, Vince would have been able to spin it into an epic feud... Imagine Mania 11 with a tag team "main event" of Bret and Sting v Rude and Shawn... Rude's injury killed that possibility and perhaps Sting's enthusiasm... he'd want another ally there and he and Rude going over together would have helped him "settle in". Rude going over in 94... perhaps with Sting opens up a whole new realm of possibilities... DiBiase doesn't leave for example... but that one bump on a stupid New Japan ring setup could have played a crucial role in plans for Sting from both his and Vince's perspective.


Kevin Nash - Sting would have seen how Diesel was being positioned and perhaps felt had he moved, as was close... he would ultimately have been fed to Diesel rather than given the ball himself. This would be a Vince move through and through and Sting arguably was, if that was even a chance staying and taking his chances in WCW with Hogan... at least he KNEW Hogan enough to know he respected him. Nash was a guy in the opening matches while Sting was main eventing... with the rep we know know Nash has, he would have jumped at the chance to "squash" Sting in WWE and would have pushed for it.

 

[whoopin' ass]

Sting has a point. Yeah Booker was throw into feuds with Austin and Rock but he was a WCW name that people knew. He also got jobbed out like crazy. While I thought it was a funny segment, remember him and Austin fighting in that grocery store? Austin was clearly dominating him. Is that how you treat a multitime champ? And what about after the Invasion angle? Booker pretty much started at the bottom again. I am not for giving guys a free ride but Booker's treatment was horrible and should have never happened. There was no reason why he couldn't have been at the main event level his entire time in wwe. But that is how everyone with any name value from WCW got treated. Look at DDP. Sting had good reason not to trust Vince. With WCW gone, Vince had no reason to treat these guys well. When WCW was around, they may lose but they are against top talent to stick it to WCW but without WCW around, why waste Austin in a match when a Hardcore Holly or Bradshaw will due.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Remember, Sting wasn't just looking at the WWE wrestling landscape in 2001 only. He was in WCW since the late 80s, so he saw a lot of WCW champs go over to WWE and not do well. Vader was an absolute MONSTER in WCW. Kind of like their version of the Undertaker and looked foolish in the WWF. His main event feud with Shawn Michaels was short lived and he didn't do much after that. Ron Simmons was the first black World Heavyweight champion ever, but rather than use that huge card, he was a fricken cartoon character of a gladiator as Faarooq Asad with Sunny as manager, which made no sense. Luger had the machine behind him as 'Made in the USA' but for some reason, he did not get the belt from Yokozuna at SS '93.

Really, the only WCW main event guy that became a WWE main event guy before 2001 was Ric Flair, and to a lesser extend Sid. McMahon liked to create his own main event talent and did that with former WCW no namers/midcarders. So I can totally see why Sting was hesitant giving his age and name power

Austin was pretty big in WCW....Curt henning was AWA World Champion....Shawn Michaels was AWA Tag Team Champion....Ted DiBiase was a consistent main eventer in Mid South....Rick Rude was a star in both World Class & WCW (NWA)....It's a myth that Vince liked to "create his guys"""...he actually built most of his success by taking top talent already established in other promotions. Sometimes he gave them new gimmicks (Million Dollar Man DiBiase or Mr Perfect, The Razor Ramon character for Scott Hall was a direct and almost carbon copy of his Diamond Stud persona in WCW) often he did not make major changes (The Rockers, Blanchard & Anderson, LOD, Roddy Piper, Randy Savage). Although Flair got a good push in 91-92 so did Lex Luger after him.

 

[FlairFan2003]

I think it sort of goes both ways. Yeah, I believe WWE dropped the ball with a lot of guys. DDP, Booker T, and Goldberg all deserved better runs. However, a lot of the problems had to do with injuries as well. DDP was actually making a comeback, if I recall, when he was injured. Nash also was injured. Goldberg chose to leave. Ric Flair tended to lose most of his matches and play the damsel in distress, but he was like that during the end of his WCW career.

Flair, as an older competitor, put over younger talent on the rise like Jeff Hardy and Shelton Benjamin (proof that just cause someone with a name "puts you over" has almost no meaning on how your career turns out), but he did earn several high profile wins including Chris Jericho (S-Slam 02), single handedly won an elimination match vs The Spirit Squad after his entire team got disqualified (S-Series 2006), Hell in A Cell vs HHH (2005), beat HBK on PPV (2003), had PPV wins over Eddie Guerrero, MVP, Mr Kennedy, Edge, and two over Mick Foley (including their epic "I Quit" match at S-Series 2006), had one of the best IC Title runs in the last decade, multiple wins on RAW vs Randy Orton, dominated the World Tag Titles with Batista late 2003-spring 2004, beat The Rock & Sock Connection (Foley & The Rock) at WrestleMania.

Shawn Michaels had a similar track record, with several notable wins but he was willing to elevate younger talent too when asked, putting over Cena & Orton as well as losing to legends like HHH, Flair, & Taker.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Only a few of you seem to want to address how well Vince did with Big Show, Jericho, and Guerrero...all WCW guys. He did a lot for Benoit considering he had little charisma and couldn't cut promos (usually the death knell for a wrestler). Big Show was as big as he was in WCW, the other three all were bigger in WWE.

Post Invasion yes the NWO Storyline wasn't handled well. Lets not forget that Hogan's crowd reaction at WM 18 made the idea of a return to the red & yellow seem like a good idea (thus killing the NWO). Also, no one on here points out that Hall, with a long history of drug & alcohol abuse, was fired from WWE right after WM 18 due to drinking. Those two events (not planned by WWE) killed the angle regardless of how invested WWE was in it to begin with.

Booker T was in WCW a mid card guy and tag team wrestler. Don't tell me about his WCW titles, he got the belt when Hogan, Flair, Savage, Sting, Nash, Goldberg, Hart all weren't around and the company was changing champions weekly. When the company was strong Booker was there for years and was a talented and serviceable performer, but he was never as popular as Hogan, Flair, Sting, Luger, Nash, Hall, Goldberg, DDP, Scott Steiner in his NWO days, Brett Hart, etc...all WCW main eventers before him. He worked steady for several years in WWE, got a World Title run, and faced HHH at WrestleMania. Considering how much more talent was available to WWE than WCW during those times Id say Booker's WWE run trumps anything he did in his last year in WCW.

DDP: Injuries ended his career prematurely, maybe the initial feud vs Taker wasn't a career highlight but he didn't do anything because he couldn't wrestle. That wasn't WWE's fault.

Steiner: Trying to push him as a face when his character was clearly designed as a heel failed but in hindsight some of the most popular "good guys" of all time were largely heel characters who just matched up well vs other heels (Stone Cold Steve Austin was an ego-centric, foul mouthed , alcohol abusing, cheater , lets remember that as popular as Flair was he was almost always portrayed as "The Dirtiest Player In The Game" who also drank & partied to excess and was a womanizer). Still, Steiner's biggest problem was himself. He is incredibly difficult to be around, and has a nasty reputation for his obnoxious back stage behavior. Steiner being himself, and being unhappy he wasn't the company's top star despite a heavy push coming in, hurt him. If he was easier to get along with and more of a team player he could have stayed around for years.

Ric Flair: One poster said Flair was totally wasted in WWE and that his TNA run was much better. I disagree. First, his initial WWE take over story line vs Vince and feud with Undertaker were among the best WWE storylines in 01-02 and he was way over with fans. The Evolution stable was the best group in the business, major draws as heels, with Flair playing a major role as manager and mouthpiece in helping to get Randy Orton & Batista over as main eventers, more than HHH who was too involved in his own storylines as World Champ to play a complimentary role to those two. His IC Title run was one of the best anyone has had with title in over a decade as he regularly defended on RAW & PPV against top competition such as HHH, Edge, Mr Kennedy, while helping to elevate Carlito & Shelton Benjamin (the fact their careers faded afterwards is their own fault, they got huge bumps from Flair). In terms of memorable matches, keeping in mind that Flair was in his 50s at this point and wasn't capable of putting on the kind of matches quality wise he did in the 80s & 90s, he was still good to very good in PPV matches vs Taker (loss), HBK (win), twice against Chris Jericho (win-loss), Edge (win), twice against Mick Foley (both wins), twice vs HHH (win-loss), Carlito twice (both wins), plus he single handedly won an elimination tag team match with no partners (all disqualified at beginning of match) vs The Spirit Squad on PPV. He also had very good TV matches vs Austin, Rock, Kurt Angle (excellent match), HBK in Japan, Benoit (on the road to WrestleMania), and dominated the tag title with Batista from late 03-spring of 04. In terms of individual "memorable" matches I'd say WWE Title TLC vs Edge (Jan 06 Raw) was outstanding, as was his first encounter with Angle in 06, The Summer Slam "I Quit" match win over Foley was extremely entertaining and brutal, as was his IC Title defense and win over HHH in Hell In A Cell (their re match as S-Series, won by HHH in a Last Man Standing Match, was epic). I disagree totally with the poster that said his run was wasted and agree with others that say over all he was treated well.

Kevin Nash: Again, injuries....he was doing just fine as a major face to oppose Evolution post NWO but his continued declining health kept forcing him out of the ring and eventually lead to his release. He did have a good run vs HHH in a World Title feud, personally I think he would have grabbed the title at some point had he managed to stay healthy.

Goldberg: It's amazing when you look at how many matches he won, beating Rock in his debut, beating Lesnar at WrestleMania, beating HHH for the World Title, that his run is considered a disappointment. The disappointment is it didn't last longer, but that wasn't WWE's fault, he wanted to leave, they wanted him to stay. He'd probably still be there right now if he hadn't opted out (Goldberg-Lesnar II, Goldberg vs Ryback, Goldberg vs Cena, etc).

In the end, Vince McMahon's main concern is money...if you can help him make it he can put aside a lot. Remember he hired Steiner despite his terrible rep and a previous bad run with the company that didn't end on good terms ten years earlier. Certainly Nash & Hogan didn't leave on good terms (Hogan gave him Vince the double whammy of testifying against him in federal court and then joining WCW!!!). You cant blame Vince for injuries to Nash & DDP, or for Steiner's attitude, or for Goldberg cho0sing to leave when he was still prominently featured (remember he was still a major part of the show and winning most of his matches right up the very end). Booker T did better in a much more talented WWE than he ever did in WCW when they were strong, Guerrero & Jericho & Benoit got better matches and pushes and became better stars in WWE than they ever were in WCW, Big Show continued to be a major star, and lets not forget how well Steve Austin did post WCW.

 

[Anti-IWC-Marks]

You guys are missing the point entirely here.

The WCW was indeed buried, but don't knit pick person to person, look at the big picture.

First, putting Shane McMahon as owner of WCW was horrendous. You just bought out a rival organization with millions to billions in name recognition, and instead of letting these guys be "outsiders", you slap a McMahon as their leader.

And then, lo and behold, Stephanie McMahon is the owner of ECW. I guess Paul E. Heyman and ECW couldn't do it on their own, they needed the coaching of daddy's little girl...

And once "The Alliance" is formed, who is the leader? Steve Austin, the WWE Icon. I guess these Alliance guys couldn't walk in a straight line without ol' Steven Austin telling them all what to do.

Meanwhile, the WWE could have had an Invasion of all time proportions had they simply paid the contracts of the big names and not throw people in.

I'll give you an example. When the NWO came into WCW in 1996, they did an "invasion" angle correctly. How? The invaders dominated. They did what they wanted, they were feared. Meanwhile, the Alliance was nothing but jobber boys to the WWE guys most of the time. There was absolutely no dominance, all Vince just pissing on WCW guys, and if the Alliance DID succeed, it was because a Mcmahon or a WWE guy did it.

Just imagine if the original invasion 5 on 5 match had Booker T, DDP, Scott Steiner, Sting, and Goldberg... matching up against Austin, The Rock, Jericho, Taker, and Kane.

Just let that sink in for a second.

Now, look at "The Alliance" roster.

Billy Kidman
Booker T
Bubba Ray Dudley
Diamond Dallas Page
D-Von Dudley
Gregory Helms
Justin Credible
Kanyon
Lance Storm
Mike Awesome
Raven
Rhyno
Rob Van Dam
Sean O'Haire
Shawn Stasiak
Steven Richards
Test
Tommy Dreamer
William Regal

Mostly mid-card guys. They buried the WCW name when they could have made a fortune off it, had multiple super cards, etc.

WWE probably lost close to a billion dollars just to appease their ego.

 

[New Hot Fed]

Vince and WWE made sure that the guys that were whining about their job in WCW were treated like a million bucks. That is why guys like Eddie Guererro and Chris Jericho and Booker T and Big Show got a thousand "re-push" in the WWE after many failures. Cause he wanted to make a point and putting WCW's nose in it.

And he had the opposite reaction with the big WCW stars, he did not make then so he didn't care for them.

 

[J.J.]

Vince and WWE made sure that the guys that were whining about their job in WCW were treated like a million bucks. That is why guys like Eddie Guererro and Chris Jericho and Booker T and Big Show got a thousand "re-push" in the WWE after many failures. Cause he wanted to make a point and putting WCW's nose in it.

And he had the opposite reaction with the big WCW stars, he did not make then so he didn't care for them.

I disagree with Booker T being handled well but that's your opinion. DDP was mistreated but outside of DDP who were the other big stars from WCW he didn't push to the,moon? Guys that had prior WWE stints don't count.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

When WCW officially debuted on RAW - who did they pick to illustrate how strong this invading force was Booker T (a very over WCW guy who had done everything the right way in working his way through the glass ceiling) vs... 'Buff' Bagwell...

Booker was World Champion. Now while the guys acquired where hardly the WCW 'A' cast, think how better this match would have been received if it was presented one week later 'Down South' against someone like DDP or Lance Storm or even a Mike Awesome. Nope, let's use a guy who never, EVER got near the main event scene anywhere AND present it in a WWF stronghold.

Now tell me why Sting was resistant? The federation that he was the franchise off was buried from the off!


Simple fact, if Vince McMahon had ever been serious about making the WWF competitive, he would have done one off two things:

1. He got WCW for a song - he could easily have bought out some of the contracts (even if it was only Sting, Goldberg & Flair to preserve their identity).
2. Failing that, he had a plethora of well known exWCW guys (ex: Radicalz, Y2J, Show) that could have also returned to their roots and padded out the roster.

Just imagine if he'd went for a combination - Sting, Goldberg, Horsemen (Flair, Benoit, Malenko and possibly the Giant), Y2J, Booker and DDP. Then picture this, the Invaders follow the template Vince created HIMSELF initially with Bret Hart and SCSA only with the WCW guys playing up the face element 'Down South' and heeling it up 'Up North'.

Anyone out there willing to say that that wouldn't have recouped the investment many times over? Imagine that first Mania18, especially as the nWo had arrived by then:

Sting vs Taker?
DDP vs the Rock?
Booker vs Kurt?
Triple H vs Triple H (think about it)?
Goldberg vs SCSA?

Buff Bagwell

 

[d_henderson1810]

Sting never joined because Sting didn't want to join WWE. It's his choice, not WWE's.

Sting thought he could bignote himself by being known as the guy who told Vince "No"! and got plenty of mileage out of that.

Yet, like they all do in the end, he realized that he would soon retire, and needed money to set himself up. Also, he doesn't want to wake up, regretting never having done a Wrestlemania, never having been in WWE. He knows that his career would be unfulfiled without it.

Sting woke up and realised that he was cutting off his nose to spite his face with his anti-WWE stand. So he is now taking the money and making the appearances.

 

[MartialHorror]

Flair, as an older competitor, put over younger talent on the rise like Jeff Hardy and Shelton Benjamin (proof that just cause someone with a name "puts you over" has almost no meaning on how your career turns out), but he did earn several high profile wins including Chris Jericho (S-Slam 02), single handedly won an elimination match vs The Spirit Squad after his entire team got disqualified (S-Series 2006), Hell in A Cell vs HHH (2005), beat HBK on PPV (2003), had PPV wins over Eddie Guerrero, MVP, Mr Kennedy, Edge, and two over Mick Foley (including their epic "I Quit" match at S-Series 2006), had one of the best IC Title runs in the last decade, multiple wins on RAW vs Randy Orton, dominated the World Tag Titles with Batista late 2003-spring 2004, beat The Rock & Sock Connection (Foley & The Rock) at WrestleMania.

lol, I had stopped watching wrestling during that time. Too bad.

A few random points to add to the various posts.

-According to Hogan's autobiography, he actually testified FOR Vince in that he claimed Vince never supplied steroids to the wrestlers (which was what he was being accused of). However, he did admit to taking steroids, which certainly did not help himself and the WWE.

-According to the Wrestlecrap book, the WWE workers claimed that the WCW workers were sloppy and unreliable, which may have contributed to Vince 'Burying' them. Jericho also pointed out in his autobiography that WcW and WWE are very different in terms of styles and Jericho's WCW-style didn't really work in the WWE context.

Also, ego's all around may have contributed to it. The Big Show said something that implied how he may have originally been intended to beat Austin during his debut match, but Austin balked and they changed the finish to a DQ. He was very polite about it, pointing out that a victory over Austin would have to be earned, not given. While Austin did make the Big Show look good, this might've killed his push because if Austin said no, then why would Mankind or the Rock say yes? It made the Big Show look like an idiot for continuously DQ'ing himself.

Prior to the invasion, the former WCW employees would have to adapt and prove themselves in a WWF format. They're previous accomplishes only guaranteed a midcard start at best. If they got victories over the WWE guys so quickly, it would imply that the rival company is superior. Admittedly Vince's logic is questionable, if understandable, because Bischoff put Nash and Hall- straight from WWE- over EVERYONE and it ended up saving WcW for awhile. But it could've easily backfired.

Wrestling is a tricky thing and you never know how something will work out. After WcW was bought, there was an over-saturation of talent. Pushing the former rivals too far will piss off the loyal workers of your own company. Whether Vince was right or wrong, I would not want to be in his position, lol.

 

[FlairFan2003]

You cant judge WCW treatment by the Invasion Storyline....WWE tried in vain to capitalize on what seemed like on paper the ultimate fantasy match up, only the WCW guys people cared about didn't want to join WWE, at least not right away.

When WWE bought WCW they did not buy talent contracts, those were owned by Time Warner and remained on Time Warner. WWE did not buy any physical assets of WCW like offices, property, etc, What they purchases was the video library and the right to trademark and promote the name itself. To them initially that was the only thing worth money, the video library kept anyone else from using any of that footage to promote any of those wrestlers as part of their wrestling company and no other entity could operate a promotion with the name WCW/World Championship Wrestling, which was an instantly recognizable brand name internationally.

With regards to talent, WWE offered structured buy outs, something like 50 cents on the dollar (not an exact figure, might actually be lower, especially for higher paid talent) and then talent would have to negotiate their own new deals with WWE. For lower tier and mid card guys this was a good idea because A) they had no where else to go B) WWE exposure could lead to superstardom C) They weren't getting paid huge salaries by Time Warner anyway so they weren't losing much money.

However, if you were Kevin Nash or Hulk Hogan, you could afford to sit and continue collecting all your guaranteed money from Time Warner with the knowledge that due to your name and popularity there would be a market for you in WWE as soon as you saw fit to join, probably at the expense of some of those very some mid and lower tier guys who signed before you. None of the higher paid stars from WCW with the exception of DDP were willing to forgo millions of dollars in salary just to join WWE right now.

WWE had interest in Hogan & Nash but both wanted to finish collecting their Time Warner money. They courted Flair who initially contemplated retirement and declined but changed his mind, they courted Goldberg but like Hogan & Nash he preferred to get paid big money to not work, they courted Sting but he wasn't interested in the WWE work load, they were cool on Scott Hall due to his numerous outside the ring issues but agreed to bring him in when Nash & Hogan joined. They were cool towards Steiner due to his bad backstage rep but eventually gave him a chance.

WWE kept the Invasion/Alliance storyline alive as long as they could realistically waiting for some of the actual stars of WCW to join and no one did. By the time Flair, who was semi retired from the ring anyway in his early 50s, finally broke the ice and joined, it was over 7 months I think since WCW was bought out, the storyline was really old, and adding one guy to the list of otherwise unknown commodities wasn't going make fans suddenly believe the power had shifted - it's not like you gave Chuck Palumbo no chance to beat Austin but now that Flair is here its an even fight - WWE pulled the plug and used Flair in a different storyline that re introduced Vince back into his comfortable role as on screen villain.

I truly believe that if Hogan, Sting, Nash, Flair, & Goldberg had joined WCW as soon as the buyout happened that the Invasion Storyline would have been booked much better and more competitive, especially if DDP didn't injure his back. You cant fault WWE for not making WCW look better in an invasion storyline where only their 2nd and 3rd team guys are battling Rock, Austin, & HHH. However, imagine if you could have booked an Invasion storyline with Hogan-Austin, Flair-Rock, Nash-HHH, DDP-Angle, Goldberg-Big Show and Sting-Taker....add in Booker T and you would have had the dream scenario everyone always wanted. It's not WWE's fault though, fact is they knew they were making profit with or without those guys so why over pay them, and you cant blame guys like Hogan, Goldberg, etc who wanted to collect that Time Warner money before they signed up....in every case those guys were right, once they made themselves available for work WWE brought them in. They knew they had jobs when they wanted them and saw no reason to leave money on the table in the interim.