WWE Fans vs TNA Fans...some observations

[pyrusane]

While responding to a post in Sid's thought provoking thread about brand loyalty, I made a statement that got me thinking. I'll reprint it here.

What I really find interesting about all of this is how one-sided the fight is. Most of the WWE's fans either enjoy watching their product and either A) watch TNA as well, or B) just pretty much ignore it. When pressed, they will tell you what they don't like about TNA, but I have seen very little bashing of the TNA fans, with the exception of the idiot subsection that go to the shows every week and work their asses off to make themselves more important than the action in the ring.

TNA fans, however, seem to be desperate to validate their love for the show, and it seems the only way they can do this is to try to belittle the WWE and anyone who enjoys it. If you enjoy your show better, that's great, more power to you. I hope it does really well and keeps getting better.

Now, I won't pretend to have read every single post in every single thread that directly talks about why one person enjoys one show more than another. That would take days, at the very least. But I have read enough to see this as a trend.

Just reading through the thread I took my quote from, the majority of the posters were people explaining why they prefer to watch the WWE product. When they discussed TNA, they talked about the specific reasons why they don't watch it, whether it be production value, lack of cohesiveness in storylines, a feeling of it being second-rate. There were several reasons advanced. I won't say I agree with all of them, or disagree. But at no point did I see anyone try to belittle the fans who do enjoy TNA.

The few people who were on the other side of the fence, however, did seem to feel it was necessary to make it clear that they thought fans who prefer the WWE product were immature, blind sheep, who like what they are told to like by Vince McMahon. I won't suggest that all TNA fans are like this, or even all TNA fans on this forum, but I have seen it enough to make me ask the question; why?

I like the WWE, and I prefer it to TNA. I have watched TNA in the past, staying with Impact for as long as a year at one point. I bought several of their PPVs at one point. But ultimately, the product that they delivered to me failed to keep me as a fan. It just wasn't what I was looking for, overall. However, I don't feel the need to go to every TNA fan on this forum and say "Are you crazy? Why are you watching that garbage, WWE is where its at. You should be watching RAW instead." And I haven't really seen that from any other WWE fans either.

And yet over and over I see threads about how bad the WWE is, how much it sucks, and how all of the real action is on TNA. The first two parts are fine...if you don't like the WWE product, then you are free to voice that opinion, and give reasons why you don't. Perhaps make some suggestions as to how it could be improved. But instead, what we get the majority of the time is an attempt to recruit people to "cross the line."

No one is out there trying to get people to watch RAW and SD if they don't enjoy it, and no one is ridiculing TNA fans for watching the show that they prefer. So why do TNA fans feel the need to do so?

I am interested to hear from both sides on this. I really want to know what inspires this difference in the two fanbases. I hope it won't degenerate into petty name-calling and generalizations, but we'll see how it goes.

So...your thoughts?

 

[luis_is_king]

actually, you make a good point. I am irritated when tna fans say shit like "WWE sucks, same maineventers, bad storylines, and wwe is for kids and not the smart ones" jeeezzz
i'm from the philippines and TNA is not really famous here so i don't really give a damn about their show but when their fans type comments like what i said earlier it just pisses me off coz it's not like TNA is any better than the wwe.( i have watched tna before and i fell asleep)
so i totally agree with everthing u said!

 

[Davi323]

Its the same everywhere. If you watch a McDonald's commercial, they never mention BK or Wendys. However, if you watch a Wendy's or BK commercial, they feel like they have to drag McDonald's down. Coca-Cola ignores Pepsi, but Pepsi frequently mentions Coca-Cola. Microsoft commercials are about Microsoft products, but Mac commercials are less about the positives of owning a Mac, and more about the negatives of having a Windows based PC. Why? Why do some companies mention the other guys, while others completely ignore others?

Its simple. When you are #1, and by an overwhelming margin, you don't need to compare your product to theirs, they have to compare their product to YOU.

The #1 product doesn't have to use negative advertising, nor do its fans have to. Obviously, people already love their product the most. Its the 2nd and 3rd place companies that have to try to drag the competition down. Hell, politicians do this too...they run less on what they bring to the table, and more on what their opponent doesn't. TNA fans feel the need to run a negative campaign against WWE fans, because they feel they have to justify their own existence. They need to try to insult the WWE, to make themselves feel better about their product. They will argue about how great their matches are, at the same time claiming how atrocious WWE matches are. Lets use last nights' PPV as an example...TNA fan will no doubt brag about how great a wrestler Elijah Bur...I mean Pope Dinero is, because he got attacked backstage before the finals, and still beat Miiiisterrrrrrrrrrrrr KEN.....Anderson. To them, that was a great match. They will ignore that in the booking of that PPV, they completely destroyed Kurt Angle's reputation. How the hell do you book a clean win over Kurt Angle, and then have that same wrestler lose to a guy that was jumped backstage and beaten up before their match? So, Ken Anderson can legitimately pin Kurt Angle, but he can't beat Dinero, after Dinero was already in a weakened condition from being attacked? TNA fan will argue that it jut proves how great Dinero is...but, then, at the same time, tell you that if the WWE booked that same match, with a mid-carder cleanly beating one of the top wrestlers on the roster, and then losing to another mid-carder who got attacked backstage before their match was an example of why they stopped watching WWE.

If the Miz got a clean win over John Cena, and then lost to MVP that same night, after the Big Show destroyed him backstage, so that he was already "injured" before their match, TNA fan would decry that as proof the WWE sucks, and would say that every chance they get. But, if it happens on a TNA PPV, its God's gift to booking, it shows how awesome their wrestlers are, etc. They will bitch about how bad the tag team division is in the WWE, ignoring that their PPV featured a tag team match involving the NASTY BOYS.

They apply an incredibly obvious double standard when comparing their product to the WWE.

But, thats fine. If they want to keep on the rose colored glasses, and pretend their little company can compete with the WWE in its current condition, let them have their land of make-believe. A little fantasy never hurt anyone.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

First of all, this is an outstanding thread topic, so great job on picking it. Frankly, I'm surprised no one has created a single thread on it already.

Perspective is all in the eyes of the beholder with this issue. While the WWE fans perceive themselves as simply cheering on their favorite organization that got them hooked, the TNA fans perceive these particular fans as absolute blind sheep that have given into the "Walmart Mentality" of wrestling, in that "If it's bigger, it HAS to be better".

So the TNA fans perceive the WWE fans to be a very arrogant bunch of people, constantly citing ratings, buyrates, attendance, and so forth as the reasons "WHY WWE HAS to be better" in their eyes. And this is a major reason why I coined the term "WWE Shareholders".

You can't argue with these fans because "Bigger is Better", "Bigger is Better", "Bigger is Better". And they take it a step further and make sure that the TNA fans know this, by forcing this mentality down everyone's throats.

I do find that the more loyal WWE fans these days are newer fans, as I commented on in another thread, because the older WWE fans have had their loyalty and patience with today's WWE worn very thin. Believe me, you are talking to a loyal WWE fan for many, many years. Then, I finally woke up and said to myself "Why does it make any shred of sense to be brand loyal to a company that isn't putting out programming that you enjoy"?

So I am more so frustrated at the loyal WWE viewers who stay loyal to WWE because they feel this sense to, who bitch about WWE television, but will not give TNA a chance simply because it isn't as big as the WWE. Those are the fans that are most detrimental to the health of the wrestling business, more than anyone else.

All the TNA fans are doing is combating ignorance because they see the blind loyalty that exists amongst so many WWE fans. They try to debate, but the WWE fans can't be convinced because again "bigger is better" to them.

It's a very lazy approach. And yes, I think that TNA fans in general, are better educated to the wrestling business in general, are more in tune with history and more likely to have lived through the Monday Night Wars and were fans of the Attitude Era, where as today's most fiercely loyal WWE fans I perceive to be newer fans, who frankly were not fans of wrestling during it's most historic times, and therefore haven't seen a fraction of what the older fans have seen.

So yes, I think the TNA fans are more opt to be thinkers and look at things creatively from a more critical viewpoint than WWE fans are.

 

[CardiffCam]

Though I do agree this is generally what happens on this website, it seems to differ depending on websites. If i point you to a wrestling website that seems to have the 411 on quite a lot of thigns, then have a look in the comment section of TNA, adn you'll see nothing but the opposite of what happens here. In fact, I'll post some of these comments-

These comments were from a review written by Chris Lansdell of Against All Odds, where he openly supports TNA...

Pope and Anderson was awful, Landsell you are ridiculous with your TNA love. That was slow and should have never been the main event of a PPV...wow, I wanted so say I'm shocked you rated it that high, but your track record shows you rate these TNA matches much higher than they should be...WOW

"Pope celebrates as we add another name to the "Vince...you done fucked up" list."
wow...from chris "marky mark" landsell to chris "delusional grandpa with arthritis" landsell

As you can see, its much the same but reversed.
In no way am I defending either party that attack other "fanboys", its just plain stupid, 'm just showing it does happen both ways.
Personally I watch and enjoy both TNA and WWE, and I think TNA has better in-ring action when they do showcase it, while WWE's storytelling and production values are far better.

 

[CH David]

I'm going to have to disagree with a few things that Sid has said. Mostly due to me being such a WWE Shareholder. Okay, I'm probably not a Shareholder in your views.

Perspective is all in the eyes of the beholder with this issue. While the WWE fans perceive themselves as simply cheering on their favorite organization that got them hooked, the TNA fans perceive these particular fans as absolute blind sheep that have given into the "Walmart Mentality" of wrestling, in that "If it's bigger, it HAS to be better".

This is possibly true. I'm not a blind mark either way. However, I personally don't believe in the "Walmart Mentality" as you have so kindly graced us with that Sid. I don't believe that since the WWE is bigger, it has to be better. Hell no. For a while, probably mostly 2005 and a little 2006, I watched TNA a hell of a lot more than I did of WWE. Probably as I was/am a Jeff Hardy mark. So when he returned to the WWE, I started watching both on a regular basis. Then in the latter half of 2008, TNA started the MEM thing, and after about a month, I was sick of it, and stopped watching regularly. Then working Thursdays this past summer didn't help so I didn't watch TNA either. But now that I am home, I'll flip it on if hockey or something else isn't on.

So the TNA fans perceive the WWE fans to be a very arrogant bunch of people, constantly citing ratings, buyrates, attendance, and so forth as the reasons "WHY WWE HAS to be better" in their eyes. And this is a major reason why I coined the term "WWE Shareholders".

ZOMG, TNA sux becuz WWE IS BIGGGER!!!!!!!!

Sorry Sid, I couldn't help myself with that one. I usually don't get into the discussion of WWE is better or TNA is better. I find it stupid because as you said earlier

Perspective is all in the eyes of the beholder with this issue.

X makes it known that he prefers TNA right now. KB makes it known that he is biased to WWE. That is their opinion, and nobody is stupid because of what they prefer. I could say I prefer some pissant corporation in Chicago. It is all about what the people prefer. I shouldn't be called stupid or be told I don't like good wrestling, just because I prefer one show over another. Plus I'm not one to say WWE is a shitload better than TNA because it is bigger. I enjoy the small businesses as much as others do.

You can't argue with these fans because "Bigger is Better", "Bigger is Better", "Bigger is Better". And they take it a step further and make sure that the TNA fans know this, by forcing this mentality down everyone's throats.

Shareholders maybe. But not every fan of the WWE. I respect the opinion of others. But you are also someone who does the same thing, you hold your opinion over everyone else as well.

I do find that the more loyal WWE fans these days are newer fans, as I commented on in another thread, because the older WWE fans have had their loyalty and patience with today's WWE worn very thin. Believe me, you are talking to a loyal WWE fan for many, many years. Then, I finally woke up and said to myself "Why does it make any shred of sense to be brand loyal to a company that isn't putting out programming that you enjoy"?

Well to be honest, not all programming can be to your liking Sid. I'll watch stuff that isn't to my liking. Hell, this could be construed as different, I'll call it thinking outside the box. I'll watch the White Sox during the summer. If they aren't having a good season, I won't turn the Cubs on if they are having a better season, I'll keep watching my Sox. If you go outside the box on this, you will see my point. Not everything can please you. Criticism won't always fix a problem you have either. If it makes money, which the WWE is right now, it will stay the course until something changes its course. This point is only true in a business fashion. When it comes to sports such as baseball, if the team is sucking, then the GM will make the according changes to win.

So I am more so frustrated at the loyal WWE viewers who stay loyal to WWE because they feel this sense to, who bitch about WWE television, but will not give TNA a chance simply because it isn't as big as the WWE. Those are the fans that are most detrimental to the health of the wrestling business, more than anyone else.

I'm going to guess they are detrimental to the business only because they won't help with "competition"? So what. Go talk to friends or hell, maybe a stranger if you are ballsy enough, and try and get them to watch iMPACT. Just because I may not want to watch TNA because it isn't to my liking, I am detrimental to the wrestling business?

All the TNA fans are doing is combating ignorance because they see the blind loyalty that exists amongst so many WWE fans. They try to debate, but the WWE fans can't be convinced because again "bigger is better" to them.

It's a very lazy approach. And yes, I think that TNA fans in general, are better educated to the wrestling business in general, are more in tune with history and more likely to have lived through the Monday Night Wars and were fans of the Attitude Era, where as today's most fiercely loyal WWE fans I perceive to be newer fans, who frankly were not fans of wrestling during it's most historic times, and therefore haven't seen a fraction of what the older fans have seen.

So yes, I think the TNA fans are more opt to be thinkers and look at things creatively from a more critical viewpoint than WWE fans are.

I'd just like to say, Sid, you really like to group WWE fans together don't you? So now, it is WWE fans, and not Shareholders anymore? So, I guess you can't debate me to watch because I am a mindless fan who thinks since the WWE is more known it is better. Ha, Sid you never cease to amaze me with the things you say.

I'd also like to add, more of TNA's fans are smarter than WWE fans? I'm willing to go out on a limb, this is my thought, and say a good portion of TNA fans are also smarks there Sid. I could go around to all of my friends that aren't wrestling fans, and ask them their thoughts on TNA. They would probably assume I mean tits and ass. So maybe I rephrase or say TNA Wrestling to start, they say, "what is that? Is that like WWE?" Guaranteed that would be the response I get. Although I could talk to one of my buddies at school about TNA, he checks wrestling boards. Hmm...a possible correlation? Not all TNA fans are smarks, but I'm venturing a guess that a nice number of them are. We do have part of the Crucial Crew in our own forums.

So I am going to disagree to an extent with Sid about TNA fans being smarter. The WWE isn't going for your age bracket. Vince is targeting the younger crowd, at the expense of you. So sure, compared to a bunch of kids, TNA can have smarter fans. But they are also people like the Crucial Crew, who actually think they are bigger than the performers or something. So I personally enjoy WWE more than TNA right now. I have been able to catch some TNA the past few weeks, and it isn't horrible. I'll watch if my games or shows are over or on commercial, but will probably miss a decent portion of the show, as it isn't as big a deal to me. But, since I am a WWE fan, you can't debate me on this issue can you, Sid?

 

[proofinlife]

First of all, this is an outstanding thread topic, so great job on picking it. Frankly, I'm surprised no one has created a single thread on it already.

Perspective is all in the eyes of the beholder with this issue. While the WWE fans perceive themselves as simply cheering on their favorite organization that got them hooked, the TNA fans perceive these particular fans as absolute blind sheep that have given into the "Walmart Mentality" of wrestling, in that "If it's bigger, it HAS to be better".

So the TNA fans perceive the WWE fans to be a very arrogant bunch of people, constantly citing ratings, buyrates, attendance, and so forth as the reasons "WHY WWE HAS to be better" in their eyes. And this is a major reason why I coined the term "WWE Shareholders".

You can't argue with these fans because "Bigger is Better", "Bigger is Better", "Bigger is Better". And they take it a step further and make sure that the TNA fans know this, by forcing this mentality down everyone's throats.

I do find that the more loyal WWE fans these days are newer fans, as I commented on in another thread, because the older WWE fans have had their loyalty and patience with today's WWE worn very thin. Believe me, you are talking to a loyal WWE fan for many, many years. Then, I finally woke up and said to myself "Why does it make any shred of sense to be brand loyal to a company that isn't putting out programming that you enjoy"?

So I am more so frustrated at the loyal WWE viewers who stay loyal to WWE because they feel this sense to, who bitch about WWE television, but will not give TNA a chance simply because it isn't as big as the WWE. Those are the fans that are most detrimental to the health of the wrestling business, more than anyone else.

All the TNA fans are doing is combating ignorance because they see the blind loyalty that exists amongst so many WWE fans. They try to debate, but the WWE fans can't be convinced because again "bigger is better" to them.

It's a very lazy approach. And yes, I think that TNA fans in general, are better educated to the wrestling business in general, are more in tune with history and more likely to have lived through the Monday Night Wars and were fans of the Attitude Era, where as today's most fiercely loyal WWE fans I perceive to be newer fans, who frankly were not fans of wrestling during it's most historic times, and therefore haven't seen a fraction of what the older fans have seen.

So yes, I think the TNA fans are more opt to be thinkers and look at things creatively from a more critical viewpoint than WWE fans are.

It's quite ignorant to simply lump all "WWE Fans" as being blind and ignorant simply because they choose WWE over your favorite promotion. Basically your whole entire post proved exactly what the OP was trying to get through, and you made his point for him.

Judging by what I see from TNA fans on the internet, in the impact zone, and ones I know in real life, I would consider THEM to be more ignorant fan. Just as the OP said, TNA fans live by ridiculous double standards when it comes to TNA.

Alot of people make the argument that "bigger is better" not simply because they are bigger, but because their is a reason they are bigger, and people cite ratings people obviously a much larger fanbase tunes into their programming each week than TNA's, and there is also no excuse because Spike gets just as much network penetration as USA. Hell, I've seen a few Impact video game game ads during RAW about a year ago, and a TNA IMPACT ad during RAW not a month ago. They're trying to grab WWE viewers, but something isn't hooking them, and it's simply their Goulash of a throw-together sloppy product.

Alot of us "WWE Fans/Shareholders" WANT to see TNA succeed, but we've been left with FACEPALMS more often than not that has pushed us away and made us all non-believers. I used to be a huge TNA fan, I grabbed all the PPV tapings that I could from back in 03 and 04, and when they debuted on Spike me and about 20 other friends watched for about 6 months before it widdled down to 3 of us, simply because the product made no sense whatsoever and reminded us of bush league indies.

You confuse us people who prefer WWE over TNA with people that are blind and stupid, but you simply choose to ignore the facts that some of us have tried to enjoy the product and can't, simply because of TNA's obvious dogpile of shortcomings in their creative department and overall product.

Also what really makes internet TNA fans extremely ignorant in my view is that they're all trying to be the next Dave Meltzer or Bryan Alvarez and believing everything the read about "Stars being held down" in WWE. I've learned to take everything with a grain of salt, especially with those two, and once IWC TNA Fans can do the same, they'll be able to get some impartiality back and look at things objectively.

But one thing no one can deny about TNA, is that their Impact Zone is full of ******s that try to overpower the show and make themselves the spotlights. They make arses out of themselves, and kill the energy of the crowd around them. Put yourself in a mark's shoes; you're watching TNA live for the first time, you're marking out for a certain match, then all of a sudden a group of guys next to you start shouting "FIRE RUSSO" or some other random 4 syllable chant that doesn't make any sense. The Zoners kill the experience for any new fan trying to see the product, so TNA's common fans shoot TNA in the foot more often than not.

 

[Schizophrenic]

Something I have personally run into several times is that when I make a comment about TNA doing something that I find entertaining or good I get tons of comments and attacks saying things to the extent that I am stupid for liking TNA and what they do. Most people that say this to me state before that they don't watch TNA but feel they have the right to tell ME why TNA is dumb yet don't watch it themselves. Those are the fans I have an issue with. If someone watched or watches TNA and wants to tell me WHY they don't enjoy the product and can give me good, coherent reasons then I understand and respect that. It's the people that 1) don't watch it or 2) blindly say that TNA sucks because it's not WWE or looks like WWE is just stupid. I watch and enjoy both companies and support both. I will say when I enjoy or don't enjoy something equally. The reason I say more about TNA is mainly because while WWE is doing some good things, they seem to do the same good things over and over and it's usually the same. Yes TNA does something over but overall they are trying new things to get people to watch and it's not sticking to one kind of formula and are trying to see what works and what doesn't. Doesn't mean I don't like WWE just as much.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I'd like to just say that it is difficult to debate with everyone, because apparently so many people can't listen to the truth or accept people who "tell it like it is", so I can't be everywhere and answer everyone. Therefore, I have to pick and choose people here and there. But, I'll humor you and respond to you.

Although, I'm not going to waste my time responding to any of the other parts of your post because it was pretty much all bullshit anyway, just for the sake of issuing a bunch of "blah, blah, blah" for the sake of issuing a response to me.

So I'll address the meat and potatoes down here, if that's okay with you.

I'd also like to add, more of TNA's fans are smarter than WWE fans? I'm willing to go out on a limb, this is my thought, and say a good portion of TNA fans are also smarks there Sid. I could go around to all of my friends that aren't wrestling fans, and ask them their thoughts on TNA. They would probably assume I mean tits and ass. So maybe I rephrase or say TNA Wrestling to start, they say, "what is that? Is that like WWE?" Guaranteed that would be the response I get. Although I could talk to one of my buddies at school about TNA, he checks wrestling boards. Hmm...a possible correlation? Not all TNA fans are smarks, but I'm venturing a guess that a nice number of them are. We do have part of the Crucial Crew in our own forums.

I don't take up for the Crucial Crew either, so let's make that perfectly clear. They are just as annoying as a bunch of marks that attend a WWE show in so far as trying to make themselves part of the show.

It doesn't get too much more immature then that.

But how can you debate that the TNA fans are better educated to the wrestling business in general, than the WWE fans? Because the WWE is such a large organization, and is obviously filled with a tremendous number of casuals that undoubtedly don't even know that TNA even exists, they are bound to be the more educated fan that has done their homework on the wrestling business.

Put it this way, if you have heard of TNA, you have heard of the WWE. No doubt about it.

If you have heard of the WWE, you may not necessarily have heard of TNA.

The fact that the fans who have even just checked out TNA are better educated just on that front alone, compared to the wrestling casuals who go with WWE because they embrace the Walmart philosophy.

Yes, TNA fans are bound to be smarkier as well. However not all of them are like the Crucial Crew, and are a bunch of attention ****es for the camera.

But because the TNA fans are better educated to the wrestling business, I do think this gives them the headsup on what is likely to constitute better programming, because more than likely the odds are that they know more about wrestling in general, then the WWE fans who stick with WWE, simply because it is well known.

So I am going to disagree to an extent with Sid about TNA fans being smarter.

You can. But I think I touched base on why that isn't true.

The WWE isn't going for your age bracket.

They aren't? And you mean all this time I have heard the WWE fans tell me that WWE is going for everyone and trying to appeal to ALL the age groups. You mean to tell me that they aren't interested in me?

Vince is targeting the younger crowd, at the expense of you.

That is what you are telling me. Let me ask you something. Do you think you and I are in the same age brackets for key demos or are we in a different bracket?

Secondly, do you think WWE is targeting you as a fan with their programming?

If WWE is targeting kids like you seem to be implying and therefore is putting out programming geared to them, why do you find it enjoyable?

So sure, compared to a bunch of kids, TNA can have smarter fans.

I thought you just said that you disagreed with me on this statement.

But they are also people like the Crucial Crew, who actually think they are bigger than the performers or something.

And? Each organization has their share of people who think they are part of the show.

See in WWE: Sign Guy Rich Acheberger, the Neon Couple out of Ohio, Tye-Dye Guy out of Florida, and a whole host of other WWE fans we haven't even heard of.

What does that have to do with who has the "smarter" breed of fan, and therefore who is likely to be more educated on determining the better product?

So I personally enjoy WWE more than TNA right now. I have been able to catch some TNA the past few weeks, and it isn't horrible. I'll watch if my games or shows are over or on commercial, but will probably miss a decent portion of the show, as it isn't as big a deal to me.

And that's fine. As many people know, 24 is a bigger priority over Raw for me since almost always, nothing happens on Raw, and it is the same show week after week, after week. It doesn't progress enough for my tastes.

Same matches, same angles, same everything about the show.

But, since I am a WWE fan, you can't debate me on this issue can you, Sid?

Not sure if that was a challenge, but I have no issue debating you, CH. None whatsoever.

Quite frankly, you aren't in my league anyway, but that doesn't mean you aren't a good guy that merits a response from me periodically.

 

[pyrusane]

But how can you debate that the TNA fans are better educated to the wrestling business in general, than the WWE fans? Because the WWE is such a large organization, and is obviously filled with a tremendous number of casuals that undoubtedly don't even know that TNA even exists, they are bound to be the more educated fan that has done their homework on the wrestling business.

Put it this way, if you have heard of TNA, you have heard of the WWE. No doubt about it.

If you have heard of the WWE, you may not necessarily have heard of TNA.

The fact that the fans who have even just checked out TNA are better educated just on that front alone, compared to the wrestling casuals who go with WWE because they embrace the Walmart philosophy.

Yes, TNA fans are bound to be smarkier as well. However not all of them are like the Crucial Crew, and are a bunch of attention ****es for the camera.

But because the TNA fans are better educated to the wrestling business, I do think this gives them the headsup on what is likely to constitute better programming, because more than likely the odds are that they know more about wrestling in general, then the WWE fans who stick with WWE, simply because it is well known.

This is the part that bothers me. This is the reason why I made this thread in the first place. And this is the part I want to address.

The biggest problem I see with the ideas you presented there, is the fact that the fans you seem to be calling out are, for the most part, the type of fans who would also not be on this forum to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I know we get our fair share of idiots in here. But for the most part, the posters who manage to stick around for more than 15-20 non spam posts tend to be fairly knowledgeable, with opinions formed from years of watching wrestling, and in some cases decades.

I personally am one of those people. I have been watching wrestling for about 30 years, give or take a year or two. As a child I watched NWA, WWF, and AWA wrestling, and every so often I would get a Mid-South broadcast. (I must admit, it was mighty confusing to the young me to see Jerry Lawler jobbing on a WWF show, then switch the channel and see him as the World Champion. Oh, the days of being a complete mark...)

Over the years, I have learned a lot about the business. I've been a regular on the WZ main page since I discovered it in 1999, and its been one of my most frequently visited bookmarks over the last decade. I am not blindly loyal to the WWE, and as I mentioned in a previous thread, stopped watching altogether during the majority of the Attitude Era as I preferred WCW during that time.

So, I will concede the point that casual fans, meaning the fans who get the majority if not all of their exposure to wrestling solely from what they see on television, are more likely to choose WWE due to either brand loyalty or name recognition. I will likewise concede that, when looking at the overall fanbase, then TNA fans on average are probably smarter than about the business than WWE fans on average. Keeping in mind, of course, that per capita numbers can be deceiving.

Now, having conceded those two points, let me clarify the original purpose of this thread. When I talk about the difference between WWE Fans and TNA Fans, for the purpose of this discussion, I am solely referring to WWE and TNA fans on this forum. Not fans in general, not fans on other websites, just the fans that post right here in the WrestleZone Forums. And in these forums, I have found that WWE supporters tend to talk about what they like about their product, and what they dislike about TNA, while TNA fans in most cases, not all, tend to focus more on what they like about TNA, and why WWE fans are stupid for not agreeing.

TNA fans on this site seem to feel the need to recruit WWE fans, or deride them for not liking TNA, whereas WWE fans for the most part don't feel that same need. I understand that TNA fans want to see their show succeed, and I understand that to make that happen the show needs more viewers. But I have to say, the methods being employed are pretty counter-productive.

If you come to me and say "If you watch WWE instead of TNA, you are just a stupid, blind loyalist that doesn't recognize good wrestling when you see it," my automatic response is not going to be "Wow, how did I not realize that? Thank you for opening my eyes." Rather, I am more likely to get defensive and have even less interest in watching the show you are championing. It's basic human nature.

Sid, when you attack the WWE product, you do a very good job, you point out some very valid points, and you do it in a way that makes people think about what you're saying. I have started reading many of your threads and found myself agreeing with points I really didn't expect to agree with. But as soon as you start attacking the people who watch the show, as soon as you start attacking my intelligence and my choices, you've lost the fight. If your intent is to convert me, you will never do so by ridiculing me. The only people who can be converted through ridicule are the very sheep you seem to despise so much.

And if the purpose of those threads is not to convert people, if they are there solely for the purpose of mocking WWE fans, if the ridicule is the end, not the means, then that to me is the definition of trolling. And I think you're better than that...

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

This is the part that bothers me. This is the reason why I made this thread in the first place. And this is the part I want to address.

The biggest problem I see with the ideas you presented there, is the fact that the fans you seem to be calling out are, for the most part, the type of fans who would also not be on this forum to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I know we get our fair share of idiots in here. But for the most part, the posters who manage to stick around for more than 15-20 non spam posts tend to be fairly knowledgeable, with opinions formed from years of watching wrestling, and in some cases decades.

I personally am one of those people. I have been watching wrestling for about 30 years, give or take a year or two. As a child I watched NWA, WWF, and AWA wrestling, and every so often I would get a Mid-South broadcast. (I must admit, it was mighty confusing to the young me to see Jerry Lawler jobbing on a WWF show, then switch the channel and see him as the World Champion. Oh, the days of being a complete mark...)

Over the years, I have learned a lot about the business. I've been a regular on the WZ main page since I discovered it in 1999, and its been one of my most frequently visited bookmarks over the last decade. I am not blindly loyal to the WWE, and as I mentioned in a previous thread, stopped watching altogether during the majority of the Attitude Era as I preferred WCW during that time.

So, I will concede the point that casual fans, meaning the fans who get the majority if not all of their exposure to wrestling solely from what they see on television, are more likely to choose WWE due to either brand loyalty or name recognition. I will likewise concede that, when looking at the overall fanbase, then TNA fans on average are probably smarter than about the business than WWE fans on average. Keeping in mind, of course, that per capita numbers can be deceiving.

Now, having conceded those two points, let me clarify the original purpose of this thread. When I talk about the difference between WWE Fans and TNA Fans, for the purpose of this discussion, I am solely referring to WWE and TNA fans on this forum. Not fans in general, not fans on other websites, just the fans that post right here in the WrestleZone Forums. And in these forums, I have found that WWE supporters tend to talk about what they like about their product, and what they dislike about TNA, while TNA fans in most cases, not all, tend to focus more on what they like about TNA, and why WWE fans are stupid for not agreeing.

TNA fans on this site seem to feel the need to recruit WWE fans, or deride them for not liking TNA, whereas WWE fans for the most part don't feel that same need. I understand that TNA fans want to see their show succeed, and I understand that to make that happen the show needs more viewers. But I have to say, the methods being employed are pretty counter-productive.

If you come to me and say "If you watch WWE instead of TNA, you are just a stupid, blind loyalist that doesn't recognize good wrestling when you see it," my automatic response is not going to be "Wow, how did I not realize that? Thank you for opening my eyes." Rather, I am more likely to get defensive and have even less interest in watching the show you are championing. It's basic human nature.

Sid, when you attack the WWE product, you do a very good job, you point out some very valid points, and you do it in a way that makes people think about what you're saying. I have started reading many of your threads and found myself agreeing with points I really didn't expect to agree with. But as soon as you start attacking the people who watch the show, as soon as you start attacking my intelligence and my choices, you've lost the fight. If your intent is to convert me, you will never do so by ridiculing me. The only people who can be converted through ridicule are the very sheep you seem to despise so much.

And if the purpose of those threads is not to convert people, if they are there solely for the purpose of mocking WWE fans, if the ridicule is the end, not the means, then that to me is the definition of trolling. And I think you're better than that...

Well, thank you for conceding those two points. I feel they were both very valid points and obviously explains why WWE has more casual fans than TNA, and why TNA fans are bound to be more intelligent to the wrestling business, and therefore more apt to make a better decision as to whose product is better, based on their experiences in studying the business.

I think the reason TNA fans resort to those tactics is as a result of their frustration though. I feel that most of the TNA fans, if not all, are clearly disgruntled WWE fans who are sick and tired of hearing WWE fans on the Internet go on and on about how good the WWE is, when clearly to them, it is not. And again, they make that decision based on their history in studying the business.

But when you have WWE fans who absolutely will not shut up about WWE and blast TNA for being a lesser product, when I dare say in many cases they haven't given it an honest chance at all, or in many more cases, likely have never sat down and watched one full episode of Impact, then you see the result of the frustration from these fans.

Now, do I consider myself to be a TNA fan? Of the current product, yes.

Am I blind loyal diehard? No. I will no longer be a dedicated fan to either organization for the long haul. I tried that route with WWE and I saw where it got me after 20 years of being a loyal fan. I also began watching in 1990. So, I don't play that game anymore and I go wherever there is a product that most closely matches my interests.

I do want to see TNA succeed, but I am not employing tactics that can be construed to holding your hand to walk you to the product. Nor am I playing politics in trying to court fans over to the "political party of my candidate". I obviously am not on TNA's payroll for that or any other service.

However, I will make impassioned arguments about why the current TNA product is clearly better then the WWE product, and as someone who has no difficulty in supporting my opinions, combined with my experience as a fan who has followed the business for two decades and have lived through mostly all of the historic moments, and attending a couple hundred shows during that time, I am educated in saying the things I have to see and have confidence in my opinions.

I am the type of person that am an extremely active participant in this battle of wits between WWE fans and TNA fans, however my end goal is to see TNA become serious competition to the WWE down the road, and from there on maintain a balance for the wrestling business. A wrestling business that has competition stands for a healthy wrestling business. So more than anything, I am a fan of "sports entertainment" and want at least two strong competing organizations at any one time.

If TNA would hypothetically get lucky and put WWE near bankruptcy, I would be happy to see Vince in that position in the short term after he abandoned fans like me who made him wealthy and turned his back on all of us .... but after I got over that short-term glee I would not be happy because then the temptation is too great for TNA to do exactly what WWE did when WWE bought out its competition ... go on "Cruise Control" mode. And that is not good for the business.

So I just want to be clear as to what my intentions are. I want a balanced wrestling business with at least two strong mainstream organizations.

Now, you can call what I do ridiculing or trolling in many cases, but often times you aren't the real target of my messages ... even though I may be responding directly to you or others. So that is important to keep in mind.

 

[pyrusane]

Well, thank you for conceding those two points. I feel they were both very valid points and obviously explains why WWE has more casual fans than TNA, and why TNA fans are bound to be more intelligent to the wrestling business, and therefore more apt to make a better decision as to whose product is better, based on their experiences in studying the business.

I think the reason TNA fans resort to those tactics is as a result of their frustration though. I feel that most of the TNA fans, if not all, are clearly disgruntled WWE fans who are sick and tired of hearing WWE fans on the Internet go on and on about how good the WWE is, when clearly to them, it is not. And again, they make that decision based on their history in studying the business.

But when you have WWE fans who absolutely will not shut up about WWE and blast TNA for being a lesser product, when I dare say in many cases they haven't given it an honest chance at all, or in many more cases, likely have never sat down and watched one full episode of Impact, then you see the result of the frustration from these fans.

Now, do I consider myself to be a TNA fan? Of the current product, yes.

Am I blind loyal diehard? No. I will no longer be a dedicated fan to either organization for the long haul. I tried that route with WWE and I saw where it got me after 20 years of being a loyal fan. I also began watching in 1990. So, I don't play that game anymore and I go wherever there is a product that most closely matches my interests.

I do want to see TNA succeed, but I am not employing tactics that can be construed to holding your hand to walk you to the product. Nor am I playing politics in trying to court fans over to the "political party of my candidate". I obviously am not on TNA's payroll for that or any other service.

However, I will make impassioned arguments about why the current TNA product is clearly better then the WWE product, and as someone who has no difficulty in supporting my opinions, combined with my experience as a fan who has followed the business for two decades and have lived through mostly all of the historic moments, and attending a couple hundred shows during that time, I am educated in saying the things I have to see and have confidence in my opinions.

I am the type of person that am an extremely active participant in this battle of wits between WWE fans and TNA fans, however my end goal is to see TNA become serious competition to the WWE down the road, and from there on maintain a balance for the wrestling business. A wrestling business that has competition stands for a healthy wrestling business. So more than anything, I am a fan of "sports entertainment" and want at least two strong competing organizations at any one time.

If TNA would hypothetically get lucky and put WWE near bankruptcy, I would be happy to see Vince in that position in the short term after he abandoned fans like me who made him wealthy and turned his back on all of us .... but after I got over that short-term glee I would not be happy because then the temptation is too great for TNA to do exactly what WWE did when WWE bought out its competition ... go on "Cruise Control" mode. And that is not good for the business.

So I just want to be clear as to what my intentions are. I want a balanced wrestling business with at least two strong mainstream organizations.

Now, you can call what I do ridiculing or trolling in many cases, but often times you aren't the real target of my messages ... even though I may be responding directly to you or others. So that is important to keep in mind.

This right here is an example of what I wish all of the TNA vs. WWE discussions could be like. Sid, one of the most eloquently confrontational posters I have ever seen on this forum, made a completely non-confrontational post explaining why he feels the way he does about the current product of both companies. This is the type of argument I am more likely to listen to, and I thank you for it.

There are a lot of things that I currently dislike about the WWE product. There are just as many things that I thoroughly enjoy about it. For me, the positives still outweigh the negatives. When I do watch TNA, I will admit that quite often the action in the ring is superior, but beyond that, there is nothing there that currently captures my interest. If I watched wrestling for just the in-ring action, and nothing else, then I would probably prefer TNA. But for me the entire product has to be compelling, not just one aspect of it.

If it comes to the point where the negatives in the WWE outweigh the positives, I am more likely to just stop watching wrestling altogether than I am to switch to TNA, unless they do something to interest me more than they currently do. That doesn't mean I look down on TNA fans for liking what I consider to be the inferior show, because I don't expect everyone else, or really anyone else, to have the same tastes that I do.

Even though I don't currently watch Impact, I still read the PPV results on the WZ main page every month, and if it sounds like a decent show, I may watch it a few days later. I did watch Genesis, after reading the results, and there were a couple of parts I found mildly enjoyable. Overall though, I still preferred the Royal Rumble. That's just me.

The great thing about the time we live in is this; even if I do stop watching wrestling completely one of these days, I will still undoubtedly continue to read the results of the shows on here, and continue to follow the forums. And when one show or the other reaches a level to again pique my interest, then I will start watching again, and at least have an idea of what is going on. Whether that show will be TNA or WWE is anyone's guess, but right now, for me, the answer would be WWE. Opinions will vary...

 

[Davi323]

I do want to see TNA succeed, but I am not employing tactics that can be construed to holding your hand to walk you to the product. Nor am I playing politics in trying to court fans over to the "political party of my candidate".

You mean, apart from all the anti-WWE threads you start in the WWE forum...Hate to tell you this Sid, but you most definitely are employing tactics that can be construed to holding hands, to walk people over to TNA. You certainly play politics trying to court fans over to TNA. The fact that you deny this is laughable. How can your threads in the WWE forum be construed as anything different? I don't like TNA, because they haven't given me any reason to, but, I am upfront and honest about that, nor am I trying to claim the high ground, and pretend that I am not doing something I clearly am doing. Sorry Sid, but that quote from you is blatantly hypocritical to your actions in the WWE forum. You are saying one thing, and doing the opposite. Is this a case of do what I say, don't do what I do?

But, since you mentioned "political parties", if President Obama, a Democrat, were to give public speeches in Republican states, where he bashed the GOP, where he downright insulted the GOP, and claimed they were only Republicans, and that they only clinged to their religion and guns out of some misguided reasoning, everything is recorded for everyone to see, and then, gives another speech, where he brags about reaching out across party lines, to be more inclusive, do you believe him? Or do you take what he says with a grain of salt, because you were at one of those speeches where he absolutely ripped into the GOP, and know that he has in fact, not been reaching out across party lines? You and I both know, if he says one thing, and does another, you call him out on it. Well, Sid...I hope you are smart enough to see where this is going.

 

[psykohurricane]

Here my opinions on the subject, i've been following TNA since the very beginning and have been a wrestling fan since 1988. During that time i watch every wrestling program there was on t.v. from WWF programming to WCW when they first starting airing show in canada in 1990 through TNA when it first started on PPV way back in 2002 so to say that i'm a wrestling fan is an understatement.

The thing was that in 2002, WWE was still doing shock programming even after WCW & ECW dies and i was feed up with watching that kind of product every week so i gave TNA wrestling a try, i thought for 10$ it's cheap and if i don'T like it, i can just stop buying PPV and go back to WWE. But to my surprise, i actually love watching it, and the reason was the they didn'T try to over do it, the storyline was clear and simple to follow and you wanted to see what would happen the next week, while the WWE was doing ridiculous storyline that went nowhere and was to complicated to follow.

Move foward 7 years and now it's to completed opposite, the WWE is doing simple storyline and TNA is doing complicated and over the top storyline the will lead nowhere. So i can i understand why some TNA fans are starting to complain about TNA but the fact is that with every TNA loyal fans that used to plug, bitch and moan about how great TNA used to be, there is that one WWE fan that will replace him. So what going to happen is that most of the TNA fans that used to love the product for what it was might either stop watching wrestling or jump ship to one of the WWE show while all the WWE fan that hated the current product will go and try TNA.

Having said that, i'm one of those loyal TNA fan that decided to go back to watching WWE programming. Like i said before, i've been a loyal TNA fan for the last 7 and 1/2 years. Been throught the high and the very low of what they could give me and when i say low i really mean low. That mean that i supported them during the Stone Cold Shark Boy phase they had. But now, i don'T have the energy or the time anymore. I give up and stop watching TNA PPV's and in 3 weeks when TNA goes live, this will be the end of me watching TNA for a while. This is my opinion, but having Bischoff and the BAnd be the focal point of the company and having AJ Styles not being himself is crap that i can not stand anymore.

So if TNA fans want to talk about TNA and said it the greatest promotion on earth go for it, in a way it you guys that will keep the WWE alive because at some point, the word of mouth will be spreading thanks to you and WWE will have some competition that they will gladly try to eliminated and that will be good for the wrestling business.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

You mean, apart from all the anti-WWE threads you start in the WWE forum...Hate to tell you this Sid, but you most definitely are employing tactics that can be construed to holding hands, to walk people over to TNA. You certainly play politics trying to court fans over to TNA. The fact that you deny this is laughable. How can your threads in the WWE forum be construed as anything different? I don't like TNA, because they haven't given me any reason to, but, I am upfront and honest about that, nor am I trying to claim the high ground, and pretend that I am not doing something I clearly am doing. Sorry Sid, but that quote from you is blatantly hypocritical to your actions in the WWE forum. You are saying one thing, and doing the opposite. Is this a case of do what I say, don't do what I do?

Actually ... you seem to misunderstand. Just when you thought you had a case, too. It's humorous to see people like yourself get all worked up when they think they caught me in an "AHA!!!" moment. Wrong.

When I say that I will not "court fans" or "hold their hand to go to TNA", I mean that I will not go up to fans and say "Have you ever thought about giving TNA a try? If you are unhappy with WWE, then they offer x, y, and z. They have a, b, and c. You should really give it a try and tune in on Thursday at 9 PM. Promise me you'll do it and you won't regret it."

That is what I mean by holding hands and trying to court people. Bottom line is that I don't force people to do anything. I come on here, tell it like it is, and I either praise companies for things that are good or blast companies for things that are not. But I am not kissing ass to try to bring people over to TNA. That is a decision they have to make on their own.

All I do is blast McMahon and friends over the crapfest that they put on the air, and challenge people who think it equals great, compelling television. Like I said, I have watched for two decades. I know what is good television and what is not, based on the things I have seen over the years.

The WWE fans however, are more opt to be newer fans, as I stated. The WWE fans in generally are likely to be newer fans and therefore least knowledgeable and least active in looking for other organizations to follow, than the TNA fans are. And I think a lot of that from newer fans naturally progresses to being carried over to the Internet when fans take the next step to become part of the IWC. That is the step I think many fans on here are on. They are newer to WWE than a lot of us, learn a little about the WWE history, but are still fiercely loyal to the WWE, know a little about TNA, but are still fiercely loyal to WWE, that they will not consider switching or even following TNA simply because it doesn't have the letters WWE attached. So their markiness actually carries over to their IWC postings.

All I am here to do is to combat that markiness and ignorance online for WWE to allow for what I desire-- two prominent organizations to lead to a healthy wrestling business.

 

[GetsHeat]

All I do is blast McMahon and friends over the crapfest that they put on the air, and challenge people who think it equals great, compelling television. Like I said, I have watched for two decades. I know what is good television and what is not, based on the things I have seen over the years.

No, you have an opinion on what good television is. Others may have another opinion, it's not a black and white situation.

Also please don't discount any WWE fans as only watching it out of loyalty. I watch it because it's simply a better product to me. Do I hope TNA gets better and starts to make an impact on WWE's product? Of course, who wouldn't want Monday Night Wars round 2.. but my eagerness for it won't allow me praise anything TNA does and discount anything WWE does.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

No, you have an opinion on what good television is. Others may have another opinion, it's not a black and white situation.

Also please don't discount any WWE fans as only watching it out of loyalty. I watch it because it's simply a better product to me. Do I hope TNA gets better and starts to make an impact on WWE's product? Of course, who wouldn't want Monday Night Wars round 2.. but my eagerness for it won't allow me praise anything TNA does and discount anything WWE does.

Well, there comes the second part of the equation. I support TNA because it is the better product from a creative standpoint. They put more effort into their creative writing than WWE does. So I am not just praising TNA because I want to see competition for the WWE. I may support their efforts to expand, but I won't necessarily praise them if I don't like their product.

However, I do enjoy the product they put out right now. Like any product, it has its own flaws, but it is conceivably better in every way, shape, and form to Raw and the other WWE produced shows at this point.

The effort is there on the part of TNA. It is not there on the part of WWE, who most fans acknowledge has been on "Cruise Control" for not just months, not just a year or two, but several years now.

All the TNA fans, who are generally better educated and not as likely to be fiercely loyal to any organization because as stated, they are better educated .... are doing is pointing that out to the WWE fans on here. And that is difficult since the WWE fans have generally speaking, embraced the Walmart mentality and are the lazier breed of fan.

 

[twentytwo]

I'm finding it really hard to connect the dots as to how anyone who spends a minute of their life watching a Nasty Boys match in the year 2010 is smarter than anything just north a ham sandwich on rye, let alone another human being.

And how can any fan of TNA be considered "better educated" to the wrestling business when the guys in charge of TNA drove the last one they were in charge of out of business? Don't you have to have a clue to avoid that?

And if these are the clowns you are following, giving you the sense you know more than the next guy because of it, isn't that a heavy dose of the blind leading the blind?

News flash: You aren't any smarter, or any bettet than anyone else on here, no matter what you, or your momma tells you.

Until you figure that out, you've figured nothing out.

 

[CH David]

I'd like to just say that it is difficult to debate with everyone, because apparently so many people can't listen to the truth or accept people who "tell it like it is", so I can't be everywhere and answer everyone. Therefore, I have to pick and choose people here and there. But, I'll humor you and respond to you.

Oh thank the lord!!!! He is responding to little old me. Actually I am glad, and hopefully this can continue. And I'm in a bit of a smartass mood, so let that know it plays into this a bit.

I don't take up for the Crucial Crew either, so let's make that perfectly clear. They are just as annoying as a bunch of marks that attend a WWE show in so far as trying to make themselves part of the show.

It doesn't get too much more immature then that.

This is very true. The Crucial Crew are immature jackasses, hell I even saw our nice shirt and tie man on the show the other day. Looked, well, I can say it is a disparaging remark, so people can guess what they want. But are you saying marks are annoying? Would you rather a whole crowd of smarks chanting for heels and booing the faces? The marks make the show what it is, because they are entertained by the action. I'll get to it in a bit, but children are innocent little fans. Vince is giving them good vs. evil, and they are eating it up. There is a difference in being a true mark, and someone who just wants to be bigger than the stars, which the CC want.

But how can you debate that the TNA fans are better educated to the wrestling business in general, than the WWE fans? Because the WWE is such a large organization, and is obviously filled with a tremendous number of casuals that undoubtedly don't even know that TNA even exists, they are bound to be the more educated fan that has done their homework on the wrestling business.

How are they "bound to be more educated"? Not all wrestling fans look up history. Although WWE plays through quite a bit of history every so often. So if that is your point, then awesome. But the target of TNA fans are better educated because they know what has gone on, either as a smark, or they have grown up with it, guessing such as yourself.

Put it this way, if you have heard of TNA, you have heard of the WWE. No doubt about it.

If you have heard of the WWE, you may not necessarily have heard of TNA.

Well sure. We all know that one, whether some want to accept it or not is their choice.

The fact that the fans who have even just checked out TNA are better educated just on that front alone, compared to the wrestling casuals who go with WWE because they embrace the Walmart philosophy.

Yes, TNA fans are bound to be smarkier as well. However not all of them are like the Crucial Crew, and are a bunch of attention ****es for the camera.

But because the TNA fans are better educated to the wrestling business, I do think this gives them the headsup on what is likely to constitute better programming, because more than likely the odds are that they know more about wrestling in general, then the WWE fans who stick with WWE, simply because it is well known.

So simply by turning on TNA, they are better educated? Because they know of another company? I used to know about IWA Mid-South. Does that make me better educated? But I also know about some of wrestling's history. I would say that makes me better educated more than knowing of an alternative company.

You can. But I think I touched base on why that isn't true.

So...TNA fans aren't smarter? You all see it here folks. Lord Sidious is calling WWE fans smarter. That is what I am going to stick with rather than rebutting what you have said. Mostly because most WWE fans are Shareholders.

They aren't? And you mean all this time I have heard the WWE fans tell me that WWE is going for everyone and trying to appeal to ALL the age groups. You mean to tell me that they aren't interested in me?

They are aiming for the key demographic in the younger crowd. It is like radio. I listen to a station that has a main demographic of males, 18-34. They also have a female following, which is gravy. They are going for the young crowd, and the older fans that still follow, gravy.

That is what you are telling me. Let me ask you something. Do you think you and I are in the same age brackets for key demos or are we in a different bracket?

I don't know your age, Sid. But by the way you talk about how it isn't to your specific liking. I'm going to venture a no for you. They probably aren't aiming for me either. I'm 19, yet I am part of the group that still enjoys the product. So in a theoretical situation, I am part of the gravy.

Secondly, do you think WWE is targeting you as a fan with their programming?

If WWE is targeting kids like you seem to be implying and therefore is putting out programming geared to them, why do you find it enjoyable?

Probably not targeting me directly. I would love to see more blood and intensity. As a whole, I may seem like I am contradicting myself but read me out, as a whole, they are going for a family oriented product. It is geared toward children, but with a family aspect involved, so that parents will spend the money for the little kids.

Why do I find it enjoyable? The programming on Raw has been a very solid effort in my views. It may be slow for some, but I am liking it. I can see some of the feuds that are probably going to be pushed after EC this Sunday. And Smackdown has been my favorite programming for about a year. Probably due to CM Punk, but the program as a whole has been solid. It lost momentum after being on fire over the summer, but has remained a very solid show.

I thought you just said that you disagreed with me on this statement.

Disagreed to an extent is what I said. The majority of TNA fans are smarks who like to be up on things. The current majority of WWE fans are kids who like the product where it is.

And? Each organization has their share of people who think they are part of the show.

See in WWE: Sign Guy Rich Acheberger, the Neon Couple out of Ohio, Tye-Dye Guy out of Florida, and a whole host of other WWE fans we haven't even heard of.

What does that have to do with who has the "smarter" breed of fan, and therefore who is likely to be more educated on determining the better product?

No, you misunderstand me. The fans themselves, are part of the show. TNA fans can all be part of the show, and are, with their incessant chanting. The Crucial Crew actually think they are on par with the wrestling talent, and are "friends" with them. They ruined a good match because they had to show up the company. WWE crowds are obviously part of the show, but no one is trying to be on par or above the talent in the ring. But maybe it is just my imagination since I can't hear anyone in an arena compared to a soundstage.

And that's fine. As many people know, 24 is a bigger priority over Raw for me since almost always, nothing happens on Raw, and it is the same show week after week, after week. It doesn't progress enough for my tastes.

Same matches, same angles, same everything about the show.

24, great show. Also a priority of mine on Mondays. But I also flip back and forth during commercials. Raw has been getting better though to me. They are progressing stuff very fluidly. Not fast enough for you, but it is a process if you want a good payoff.

Not sure if that was a challenge, but I have no issue debating you, CH. None whatsoever.

Quite frankly, you aren't in my league anyway, but that doesn't mean you aren't a good guy that merits a response from me periodically.

I'm not in your league? I thought we were on a level plain Sid. No need to be condescening to me. Although if by league you mean stubborn as a mule, you would be 100% correct. I'm not that stubborn.

But I do appreciate the response. Hopefully I get another.

 

[Schizophrenic]

Disagreed to an extent is what I said. The majority of TNA fans are smarks who like to be up on things. The current majority of WWE fans are kids who like the product where it is.

I just want to point out that you are ALMOST getting to the point where you are doing what Sid is doing. He's saying that TNA fans are smarter and better (may or may not be true, personally I don't watch wrestling for fans) but you came back with saying that most TNA fans (therefore a majority) are smarks. Isn't that the pot calling thekettle black? I have a group of friends who always watch Impact and The PPVs and none of us are smarks. We have decided against reading spoilers of tv or PPV, we don't really give a damn who is doing who or who is a friend of whomever. We simply enjoy the show and we are not smarks. How is it possible to know what evry other TNA fan is doing? Guess it's an issue of practice what you preach.

I also want to state that I can understand where Sid is coming from. I'm not going to go out on a limb and say that i agree %100 and say that TNA fans are smarter and know more, but let's think about this. When a new guy debuts in TNA, whether he be from WWE, ROH or a well known indie fed or anotehr country, the fans generally know who he or she is. They popped huge for Kong who is known from Shimmer & Japan. They popped big time for Desmond Wolfe who is known from ROH. Know look at the WWE fans. When someone debuts for them, they don't always know who it is because alot of WWE fans don't follow much else but WWE (and thathas been stated in the WWE boards before, go look it up if ya don't believe me). I watched the match with Bryan Danielson in WWE as a dark match and the fans barely knew who he was except for a handful of fans. If he showed up in TNA, the place would have gone nuts.

I do not believe Sid is trying to say that general IQ wise TNA fans blow WWE's out of the water, I think he's trying to make a point that more TNA fans follow the indies and international promotions than that of WWE's fan population. SID tell me if you are wrong but that's what I am getting from the posts.

 

[The Phenomenal One]

I'm going to take a post I did on another topic and tweak it a bit for this topic.

Now, my favorite wrestlers are Undertaker, HBK, AJ Styles, and Austin Aries. So, I like wrestling from the different promotions. Now, when it comes to WWE or TNA, I will choose WWE. And one of the reasons why, is due to TNA's storylines. Now, I still watch TNA but I just prefer WWE over them. Now I'm not going to go on a hateful rant on why everybody should be watching WWE. We're all fans of this great thing, called wrestling. But at the sametime, we don't all like the same things. As I said before, some of my favorite wrestlers are AJ, HBK, and Taker. I'm pretty sure that there's people, who can't stand those wrestlers. I'll give you my opinion, but I'm not going to force it on you.

Today, Vince McMahon and WWE get bashed to no end by the smarks apparently b/c that's the "cool" thing to do. No more can a person just watch The E if they want. No, now in order to be considered a "real" fan you have to hate on anything related to McMahon. To be a "real fan" you have to watch something like TNA b/c apparently that's where the "real" wrestling happens. If you like WWE or praise McMahon, you get bashed. If you say that WWE is the best you get bashed for not knowing what "real" wrestling is, even though saying Daniels/Samoa Joe/AJ Styles is real wrestling has about as much validity as saying Cena/Orton is real wrestling. It's all a matter of opinion that's backed up with more opinions. You get bashed for being a WWE mark b/c you prefer The E. Yet, it's perfectly fine to jizz over anything TNA does.

People bashed McMahon and WWE over the MSJ at Breaking Point during the Punk/Taker match. Hell, the majority of the IWC bashed it before it even happened. TNA does the samething and suddenly the same people who bashed McMahon over it, then turn around and say how awesome TNA is for doing it? What the hell? What's up with that double standard? Is it b/c hating WWE/McMahon is the "cool" thing to do nowadays?

I remember last year, after WM25, I came to the forums (had a different username) to see what everybody thought of WM. It seemed that alot hated it. Personally, I feel that it's insanely underrated but that's for a different topic. Now fast forward some months later, and Bound For Glory happens. I, again, check out the forums. And I see how alot are saying how they loved it. Then I see a few people who say that they didn't care for it. And that they thought that WM was the better show. Those people got bashed to no end. The TNA fans (not all but certainly enough) that were in the TNA section, were saying things like "Oh, you watched the PPV with a closed mind." "You Don't Know What Real Wrestling Is" So it's perfectly ok to bash WWE's Wrestlemania but if you don't care for TNA's BFG then it's wrong? You don't know what real real wrestling is?

Bottomline, we're all wrestling fans here. If a person watches WWE, they shouldn't get blasted for it. That's one thing about the uppity ass smarks, no not every single TNA fan but it's damn sure enough, with their, "I'm better than you and I know more than you" attitude, that pisses me the hell off. You like WWE and then said smarks have the fucking audacity to look down their noses as if they're the gold standard of what a wrestling fan should be. You automatically get labeled a "McMahon mark". WTF? Why can it be that the person likes WWE b/c well...they just like the product. If you prefer TNA, does that make you a blind Dixie Carter follower? Does that make you a sheep? Or does that make you a wrestling fan, who just prefers TNA over The E? Like I said, I do enjoy the WWE product. I know it's not perfect. I also watch TNA, and I realize that it isn't perfect. I just wish the uppity ass smarks would get off their damn high horse for once. And stop acting as if they are the "Gold Standard" of what a fan should be.

 

[CH David]

I just want to point out that you are ALMOST getting to the point where you are doing what Sid is doing. He's saying that TNA fans are smarter and better (may or may not be true, personally I don't watch wrestling for fans) but you came back with saying that most TNA fans (therefore a majority) are smarks. Isn't that the pot calling thekettle black? I have a group of friends who always watch Impact and The PPVs and none of us are smarks. We have decided against reading spoilers of tv or PPV, we don't really give a damn who is doing who or who is a friend of whomever. We simply enjoy the show and we are not smarks. How is it possible to know what evry other TNA fan is doing? Guess it's an issue of practice what you preach.

I'm saying that the key demographic that the WWE and TNA are going for are different. TNA is mostly known by smarks, or older fans who have watched wrestling for a long time. WWE is known by a lot of people, children, casual people, and smarks alike. WWE is goin for the kids, TNA is going for the older fans. Hence that TNA fans are smarter, to an extent.

I also want to state that I can understand where Sid is coming from. I'm not going to go out on a limb and say that i agree %100 and say that TNA fans are smarter and know more, but let's think about this. When a new guy debuts in TNA, whether he be from WWE, ROH or a well known indie fed or anotehr country, the fans generally know who he or she is. They popped huge for Kong who is known from Shimmer & Japan. They popped big time for Desmond Wolfe who is known from ROH. Know look at the WWE fans. When someone debuts for them, they don't always know who it is because alot of WWE fans don't follow much else but WWE (and thathas been stated in the WWE boards before, go look it up if ya don't believe me). I watched the match with Bryan Danielson in WWE as a dark match and the fans barely knew who he was except for a handful of fans. If he showed up in TNA, the place would have gone nuts.

Most of the TNA fans are up on other companies. Hell, most of TNA's original talent had worked with ROH. So obviously, they are going to know about other companies. Jushin Liger came over from Japan a few times. They make it known. WWE doesn't. Significant difference in how they put someone over.

I do not believe Sid is trying to say that general IQ wise TNA fans blow WWE's out of the water, I think he's trying to make a point that more TNA fans follow the indies and international promotions than that of WWE's fan population. SID tell me if you are wrong but that's what I am getting from the posts.

What Sid is saying is that TNA fans are better educated because they know of a different product, whereas WWE fans are just mindless sheep who only talk about how their bigger business is better. That is our only excuse as why people stick with WWE. Which I showed him isn't the case with everyone, since I used myself as an example.

 

[Schizophrenic]

Bottomline, we're all wrestling fans here. If a person watches WWE, they shouldn't get blasted for it. That's one thing about the uppity ass smarks, no not every single TNA fan but it's damn sure enough, with their, "I'm better than you and I know more than you" attitude, that pisses me the hell off. You like WWE and then said smarks have the fucking audacity to look down their noses as if they're the gold standard of what a wrestling fan should be. You automatically get labeled a "McMahon mark". WTF? Why can it be that the person likes WWE b/c well...they just like the product. If you prefer TNA, does that make you a blind Dixie Carter follower? Does that make you a sheep? Or does that make you a wrestling fan, who just prefers TNA over The E? Like I said, I do enjoy the WWE product. I know it's not perfect. I also watch TNA, and I realize that it isn't perfect. I just wish the uppity ass smarks would get off their damn high horse for once. And stop acting as if they are the "Gold Standard" of what a fan should be.

But you can't deny that there are just as many people who are fans of WWE doing the same thing to TNA. I have gone int he TNA section and I always see people saying they are WWE Die Hards and that they don't watch TNA and TNA sucks and Hogan sucks and we are Hogan sheep. The blade goes both ways and there is no denying that. What I find funny is that there are some people (as I stated before who go to the TNA section simply to bash it and then admit they don't watch it but get pissed when TNA fans then tell them their argument is not valid if they don't see something then talk about it. Both companies (well allcompanies really) have fans that are willing to bash another for no reason. I am personally not one of those fans and those who do give the rest of us a bad name. I just don't see why people think it's a bad thing for both companies to exist, good and bad sotries and situations. Nobody and no company is perfect and BOTH groups of fans need to stop pretending that they are.

Most of the TNA fans are up on other companies. Hell, most of TNA's original talent had worked with ROH. So obviously, they are going to know about other companies. Jushin Liger came over from Japan a few times. They make it known. WWE doesn't. Significant difference in how they put someone over.

I'm not choosing sides but I am going to say that this does help Sid's point in saying that WWE fans are generally less aware of other promotions because like you said WWE doesn't ever mention another company or where someone came from. They use to introduce people like Bull Nakano as a legend in Japanese women's wrestling but now if Bull came in she would just be a japanese woman wrestling. WWE is trying to make it seem like they are the only game in town and they are not, people know it, so why act like it? They donot have to agknowledge every other company but to pretend no body else is around is just stupid.

What Sid is saying is that TNA fans are better educated because they know of a different product, whereas WWE fans are just mindless sheep who only talk about how their bigger business is better. That is our only excuse as why people stick with WWE. Which I showed him isn't the case with everyone, since I used myself as an example.

I think you are putting words in his mouth a bit by saying that "this is what he says" and "this is what he believes". There are plenty of WWE fans that know about TNA, ROH, Japan, Mexico but the MAJORITY do not because the MAJORITY are the younger generation. I'm not saying it's a bad thing that their main demo is younger and it shouldn't be put down. Maybe SID is a little hasty in his words but I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that he has ever made a statement that ALL WWE fans are mindless sheep. I've admitted to him that I watch WWE and am a fan and he has yet to call me that.

 

[The Phenomenal One]

But you can't deny that there are just as many people who are fans of WWE doing the same thing to TNA. I have gone int he TNA section and I always see people saying they are WWE Die Hards and that they don't watch TNA and TNA sucks and Hogan sucks and we are Hogan sheep. The blade goes both ways and there is no denying that. What I find funny is that there are some people (as I stated before who go to the TNA section simply to bash it and then admit they don't watch it but get pissed when TNA fans then tell them their argument is not valid if they don't see something then talk about it. Both companies (well allcompanies really) have fans that are willing to bash another for no reason. I am personally not one of those fans and those who do give the rest of us a bad name. I just don't see why people think it's a bad thing for both companies to exist, good and bad sotries and situations. Nobody and no company is perfect and BOTH groups of fans need to stop pretending that they are.

I'm not saying that the WWE fanbase is 100% perfect. It's just that based on all the forums I've been to, all the different wrestling stream sites I've been to, all the YT comments I've read, and some of the people I've met, I see "WWE is for kids" or "TNA is real wrestling, you're just a blind McMahon follower" or " You're just a McMahon mark" a hell of alot more than "You're just a Dixie Carter mark" Or "You're just a blind TNA followe".

Like I said, in this day in age it does seem that it's the "cool" thing to bash McMahon and anything related to him. If you happen to prefer WWE, you're accused of being a mark. You're automatically labeled as somebody who doesn't know what real wrestling is. If you prefer WWE, then the so called "smarter" fans have the audacity to look down their noses at you as if you've done something so wrong. But if you prefer TNA or ROH for that matter, then it's perfectly ok. That, is what gets me.

 

[Schizophrenic]

Like I said, in this day in age it does seem that it's the "cool" thing to bash McMahon and anything related to him. If you happen to prefer WWE, you're accused of being a mark. You're automatically labeled as somebody who doesn't know what real wrestling is. If you prefer WWE, then the so called "smarter" fans have the audacity to look down their noses at you as if you've done something so wrong. But if you prefer TNA or ROH for that matter, then it's perfectly ok. That, is what gets me.

Trust me I totaly agree with you that there are fans of both companies that bitch and moan about each other's product yet no one can really agree or disagree that one is BETTER than the other. It's all a matter of oppinion but most fans of messgae borads of any kind can never seem to get that logic through their heads. Have I made some cheap shots at Vince and his company? Yes. But I am also the first one to make a negetive comment about TNA if they do something I see as iffy. There seems to be a clear cut line in the sand apparantly that everyone else sees but some don't. I have no problem with someone comming into a TNA forum and complaining about it IF they can back it up with valid point and evidence and actually have watched the program in question. Not just using dumb comments like "TNA SUX!" and "ZOMG! Hogan IZ a Duche." I see more people doing that than trying to give good thoughful reasonings.

I will give an example.....
A few weeks back, there was a topic on something ont he TNA borads (I hinestly forgot what it was about) and I stated my oppinion that what TNA did was good and that sure some may not like it but as a whole it worked. Three people ganged up on me and tried to tell me that I was "Stupid" "a moron" "******ed" because I thought the idea was good. And when I asked for their views they came back with more personal shots because they COULD NOT give me reasons as to why I was wrong. So they resorted to childlike antics because they could not intelligently defend their vies then labeled me a "TNA-Maniac" (which I don't see as being a bad thing) and "A Hogan ass kisser". Why? Because I prefered the product and defended my views and they couldn't? I was told I was a horrible poster because I defended a company and was able to outwit and prove my ideas and they couldn't.

All in all I am not denying that there are both sides of the fence and I agree with ya. And for the "cool" thing to do. It comes nad goes in cycles. It's just easier for some to complain about Vince's company for some reason, possibly cause it's the big dog and our society nowadays likes to build something up just to try to knock it down.