WrestleZone Tournament Finals: The Undertaker vs. Randy Savage

[Dylanis]

You certainly put some very good thought and effort into that post, and I applaud your posting effort. However, if we are going to use percentage of votes as a measure of "HP", then you cannot just start at a random place to determine that HP, but rather you need to start at the beginning of the tournament.

Let's give both guys 300 HP to start.

Savage: 300 HP
Match percentages:
10.34
14.29
23.88
11.59
16.28
29.07
48

Which would leave him with a total of 146.55 HP, or roughly 49% energy.

Now, let's compare Undertaker:300 HP
Match percentages:

7.69
5.45
16.13
10.26
13.58
38
70.42
44.71
16.44

The last three was his two out of three falls match, in which Foley beat him in the very first match.

This would leave Undertaker 22.68 HP left, or roughly .08% energy.


I apologize if you feel I have come down on you too hard in this post. Like my signature says, I certainly never meant to do anything other than post my opinion. However, using that theory, Randy Savage should have had MUCH more energy in the finals match.

Good point. But the older matches didn't happen all on the same night. I'd assume there is some time to rest/heal between the other matches. I didn't think fatigue was much of a factor in the older matches (and ppl haven't brought that up).

 

[Slyfox696]

If that's the case, I don't see anything wrong with Undertaker's ability to "make a connection" if you're using it in the way I think.

I never said there was, just merely he does not do it as well as Savage.

Not in the ring it doesn't, which is the basis for this tournament.

With all due respect, fair mod, people have time and again made it very clear the "criteria" for this tournament is what they want it to be.

Just the quarters, semis and finals.

And Undertaker beat Big Show by 86%. 86 > 70, yeah

To compare it to the NCAA Tournament, are you telling me then that Georgetown is going to defeat Davidson?

After all, Georgetown won a relatively easy game by 19 points. Davidson won a very tough game, after trailing for most of it, by 6.

That's 13 points difference, plus the energy expelled to make the furious comeback.

Should I pick Georgetown to beat Davidson when they play then?

Excluding the numbers even, The Undertaker would still have an easier time with Show than Savage would with the Game.

This is the part I would like to have someone explain to me.

The Big Show is 500 pounds and the Undertaker is facing him in a hardcore environment. Meaning weapons and anything else goes.

I respect your opinion and argument, I just fail to see how the former ECW champion would not inflict punishment on the Undertaker to the same extent as Triple H could on Savage in a classic wrestling bout.

 

[Slyfox696]

Good point. But the older matches didn't happen all on the same night. I'd assume there is some time to rest/heal between the other matches.

Still though, how much can a person heal in a short amount of time? After all, Undertaker's match with Foley was three falls, and a very close match in the second fall.

I didn't think fatigue was much of a factor in the older matches (and ppl haven't brought that up).

Yes, I agree that it is terribly coincidental that people just happen to bring fatigue up as a factor so very recently.

Let me be clear, I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I just find it very coincidental.

 

[Shocky]

Simple, the last three rounds all happen in one night, the others you have time in between matches. I've said it all throughout the tournament how it works. Also, the Big Show vs. the Undertaker match was not conducted under Extreme Rules. It was the ECW Finale, but all the gimmicks were taken out once they enter the King of the Ring Format.

The Big Show vs. The Undertaker​

The Following match is the Regional Finals for the ECW. This match takes place in Orlando, Florida, at the Citrus Bowl. This match is conducted under basic wrestling rules with a four sided ring.

 

[Slyfox696]

Simple, the last three rounds all happen in one night, the others you have time in between matches. I've said it all throughout the tournament how it works. Also, the Big Show vs. the Undertaker match was not conducted under Extreme Rules. It was the ECW Finale, but all the gimmicks were taken out once they enter the King of the Ring Format.

With all due respect, are you trying to tell me that stamina was completely based upon percentage of votes in one round, and that it was a cumulative damage scenario, without giving workers the opportunity to rest and recuperate in between matches, and that the final was decided less by skill and ability, but rather by the stamina remaining after the two previous matches, effectively saying that the the quarter finals and semi-finals meant more than the finals?

I do apologize if I'm misinterpreting what everyone is saying, but to me, that seems to be the position many people are taking.

And, in my personal opinion, and certainly said with the utmost respect for other posters, I feel that determining a final like that is not the most fair way to determine a champion.

I also want to make this clear. My problem is not that current workers are winning, but rather who the current workers are beating. If Rey Mysterio took down Ric Flair, I would consider that just as Mysterio is a much better worker than Flair. I just have a problem with devising all these different scenarios and reasons to explain why some people make the picks they do.

 

[Shocky]

People are supposed to factor that in, but we never decided upon a way for it to factored in. Others, (Mighty Norcal) suggested that Stamina be factored in by a person having to not only defeat someone, but defeat someone convincingly enough to overcome the stamina factor. So with the Vader vs. Savage match being as close as it was, and Savage winning only by 4%, that wouldn't have been enough to overcome Vader's "stamina" advantage from his match with RVD, and Vader would have moved onto the finals.

Obviously, I didn't like that scenario. It's all opinion. My main thing that I wanted to get acrosst his year that I felt was ignored last year was to at least take stamina into consideration when you make your picks. I've even said, yes the Undertaker would dominate the Big Show, because he's done it throughout his career, and I think he would have beaten HBK. That being said, the first post of this Savage vs. Undertaker finale I said that there is no way, given the difference of percentage, that HBK wouldn't have fought the Undertaker all the way to the end. It's just a matter of interpretation, since I made no solid guideline or rule on the subject.

For me, I think it's perfectly reasonable that the Undertaker dominates Big Show, and beats HBK and be in better shape then Savage going into the finale of the night. Savage faces a guy that is almost a mirror image of himself in Triple H as far as speed, power, and cardio are concerned. And he fought a monster in Vader, a super heavyweight, which quite frankly, Savage has never had success against that type of wrestler.

The problem was last year when people were flat out ignoring the stamina issue, and it raised a concern. Call me suspicious, but for HBK to win 2 2 out of 3 falls matches in back to back nights in last years tournament, seemed a bit off.

Now this year, I emphasized to keep stamina in your mind when you voted on these matches. Now have people taken that too literally, who knows, that's up to the people that voted. Again, I can care a less who wins. I enjoyed Savage, I enjoyed the Undertaker. I feel both are very under appreciated over all. There is room to improve this system, sure there is.