WZ Tournament Semi-Final: Big Van Vader vs. Randy Savage

Discussion in 'The 2nd Annual WrestleZone Tournament (2008)' started by Shocky, Mar 15, 2008.

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Big Van Vader vs. Randy Savage

  1. Big Van Vader

  2. Randy Savage

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Shocky

    Shocky Kissin Babies and Huggin Fat Girlz

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    The Matadon Big Van Vader vs. Macho Man Randy Savage



    The Following match is a Semi Final Match of the Wrestlezone Tournament. This match takes place in Orlando, Florida, at the Citrus Bowl. This match is conducted under basic wrestling rules with a four sided ring. This match is conducted under "King of the Ring" style format, meaning, this is the second match of the evening for both wrestlers.
     
  2. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    I have to agree with Irishcanadian about Vader. The main thing to me are the opponents the two men faced. RVD is a great wrestler whose talent often gets overlooked in the long run. He's flashy, athletic, acrobatic and unorthodox. The problem is, if you ground him, he's dead in the water. Vader probably figured this out quickly and the match ended after a very brief comback by RVD. Savage on the other hand, had HHH. Everyone has a different opinion on the Game, but there is no way you can truly argue that RVD is a better or tougher all around wrestler than HHH. HHH can wrestle almost any style, other than an aerial game, while as best as I can remember RVD has one style. The Game would've stretched savage much farther and while the story for Wrestlemania 4 was that Savage was being stretched beyond any possible limits, he never met anyone like Vader. OMG is nowhere close to him, and savage didn't even pin him. I love savage, but I honestly can't go with him here, barring a quick rollup, and a very quick escape to avoid a massive postmatch beatdown from Vader.
     
  3. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    Quite frankly, I don't think RVD even left the ground except when he was being tossed around. Vader's agile, but he's not agile enough to hang with Rob Van Dam in the air, of course he'd keep him on the floor.

    I would like to point out, however, that results-wise, I believe Vader only has roughly 12% on Savage. That's not really enough to make this thing a foregone conclusion, although it does already tip the scales in Vader's favour.

    I'm going to hang back for now and let others discuss such matters more intelligently than I could hope to before properly giving my input in the form of a Frankenstein's monster assembled of several arguments, the best of which have already been mentioned in IC25's thread. If you haven't read it yet, read it.
     
  4. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    I have read his thread and realized I couldn't put it any better than he could. Savage is great but this monster is just too big for him and he doens't have Hogan with a chair backing him up this time. The elbow wouldn't do much good here, so his best bet is a rollup.
     
  5. Mighty NorCal

    Mighty NorCal SHALL WE BEGIN?

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    There is just simply no way I can even think about voting Savage here. Even if both men were fresh I would probably go Vader, but after Vader just had a relatively easy match with RVD, as compared to savage having what many felt would be a 30 minute war with Triple H. there would be nothing left but scraps for Vader to destroy. I DEMAND anyone who votes Savage present ANY good reason why a severly fatigued and hurt Savage could ever hope to overcome a fairly fresh Vader. PLEASE. I defy you.

    And, from a fantastuc stat that IC25 showed us all when he took me to school earlier in the tournament, Vader was dominant in tournaments over in Japan, and actually wrestled MORE than Savage did when he won the tournament at WM 4. Vader has any and all stamina needed, and didnt have to use much of it in his first match. This is coupled with him being the craziest, most talented SHW of all time. Savage cant overcome all that. Not even close.
     
  6. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    I am thrilled with how far Vader had come in this tournament, and the words you are all lending in this thread already make me smile with the fact that so many have learned so much about him. I wanted to make sure the Vader campaign kicked off early, whic is why I posted the following thread:

    http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?p=390112#post390112

    Now that this is up, I may ask Shocky to throw my thread in here, or I way just copy and past the whole thing. But to watch the three matches Vader wrestled - nay - DOMINATED in his win, PLUS how he owned Inoki in three minutes - it shows how dominant Vader truly can be and truly was in is prime.
     
  7. Y 2 Jake

    Y 2 Jake Slightly Autistic

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    Is Vader considered a great by everyone or just hardcore internet geeks?

    I supposes Vader is in better shape than Savage. Savage beat HHH. But I'm still sure the match took more out of him than the Vader match. Although you would expect this to be another long match. While Vader can go and has plenty of stanima, eventually carrying around that baby bump will take it's toll.

    Vader has got the better of some absolute legends. But most of the time he was working with some excellent workers. Savage didn't and he still always came pretty close. If he's working with a super worker (like Vader) and doing what he does with lesser workers than maybe he has to be more methodical. Take his time before bull rushing and using his speed.

    I'm still undecided.
     
  8. MattButcher

    MattButcher The Final Word

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    Vader is considered great by the nation of Japan, some of the people he worked with (most notably Mick Foley), and yes hardcore internet geeks. I think many people remember how ferocious he was in WCW also, unfortunately that was during a time when WCW was pulling some of the silliest crap ever seen in professional wrestling. DVD's, books, the web, and even TV are changing the way people educate themselves about pro wrestling and I believe that Vader's legacy will be one that remains intact. Having said that I think Vader goes over Savage due to all the great points brought up earlier: freshness, tournament experience, and the fact that he's a freaking monster. Savage is tough, but Vader has the tools to put him away.
     
  9. justinsayne

    justinsayne Cody Rhodes is an excellant

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    Common people, this isn't going to just be a walk in the park for Vader just cause he had to beat RVD to get here, I think alot of people are giving Vader waaaaaaaaaaaay to much credit, RVD is capable of taking big guys the distance, even without the use of weopons, if RVD was able to get this match onto the outside then I could easily have seen RVD inflicting more danmage on Vader which would carry over in this match, I also think that his match with RVD would have lasted at least a good 30 mins. or so, which would also have a little effect on Vader going in this match, yes Savage had the tougher match, going up against Trips in a hard fought match that lasted a good 30-45 mins. but Savage is probably a little better conditioned for this type of thing, and I think that Savage has a bit of an advantage when it comes to speed, and aerial ability, if Savage is able to hit and run on Vader I think he's got a decent chance at wearing the big man out, this is gonna be a tough match for Savage to win but I think he'd pull out the upset with a hit and run offense and by not letting Vader catch him, I think that Vader would eventually get worn down running all over the ring trying to get a hold of Savage, eventually Vader will get knocked down and Savage will hit a couple of elbow drops off the top rope to finish Vader off in a brutal match
     
  10. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    I tried to break that up but, rather incredibly, it was all one sentence. I think the majority of your argument hinged on the fact that Savage has better conditioning and could wear Vader out. I believe that's incorrect. Right, IC25?

    Like the man said, Savage will get winded sooner than Vader, add that to the fact that Vader has already had an easier match against a less lethal opponent earlier that night, it definitely tips the scales in the big man's favour.
     
  11. X

    X RIP Sgt. Michael Paranzino / RIP CM

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    Once again, I was under the impression that the better wrestler would win the match he's involved in. Thats how I've voted on every single match in this tournament so far; who is the better wrestler.

    And Randy Savage is undoubtedly a better wrestler then Vader. And thats no knock on Vader at all; Vader is a legend, and my all time favorite big man in the history of this business. But Savage is in a league of his own; I have never, I repeat, never seen a wrestler work harder to give the crowd their money's worth then Randy Savage. No one. That includes Hogan. I said it before, and I'll say it again, get your hands on virtually any Madison Square Garden show during the 1980s that played on the MSG Network, and you're almost guaranteed to see a lost classic involving Randy Savage.

    Even when he got older and went into the WCW, he still worked harder then half of the roster who were half of his age. Savage is in a league of his own in my book, and unfortunately for Vader, he's above him.

    Yes Vader had an easier opponent before, and yes Vader has tourny experience just like Savage does. But under the idea that we should vote for who is the better wrestler, Savage wins, and wins rather easily.

    Once again---this is not a shoot MMA fight. This is a wrestling match; and Savage is simply a better wrestler.
     
  12. strafro

    strafro Shaman of Sexy

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    Let me ask one simple question, why are large superheavyweights built up huge in tournaments and in wrestling in general? To make them seem unstoppable, all of you have bought into the Vader hype and are overlooking the fact that he has been overhyped by many on this board. Randy Savage is a superior professional wrestler and is looking like a fucking jobber the way you people are talking. I mean you can't just say that Vader will be so much fresher because he beat RVD opposed to HHH, he only received 12% more votes than Savage did.

    People are buying into the propaganda a little too much, I loved Vader at the beginning of this tournament but this run has got to come to an end, Randy Savage should go over here, he has all the talents and can use them here to overcome the large obstacle in Vader.

    My vote will be for Randy Savage 1000%, Vader's run should end here.
     
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  13. justinsayne

    justinsayne Cody Rhodes is an excellant

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    See this is the part I disagree with the most, I think alot of people are looking at the RVD match as if it was a 10 second squash, and I think differently, IMO RVD could do some damage in that match, RVD is capable of putting up a solid fight against guys that are bigger than him with out the use of weapons, if RVD were able to get Vader on the outside I could see RVD using aerial attacks off the top rope to inflict damage on Vader, eventually Vader caught RVD and finished him off but he did so in a much longer match than what most are suggesting, I would say that that match lasted at least 30 mins., and all that would carry over into his match with Savage

    I just can't see how Vader doesn't get winded faster when chasing to guys who are faster and more comfortable with the ropes than the big man, I don't think Savage is gonna stop and try and suplex or through Vader around I think you'd see alot of drop kicks, DDTs and stuff such as Crossbodies, elbow drops and Axe handles off the top rope, I would also say that at some point in this match I wouldn't be surprised if the ref got knocked out allowing Savage to take advantage (but then I could also see how that could work agaisnt Savage as well), IMO Savage pulls out the win in this, I don't care what anyone else says or thinks I'm still voting for Savage, because in my mind he's the better wrestler
     
  14. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    30 minutes? Are you on crack!? An to say RVD has had success against bigger guys is baseless and ignorant. RVD has had some marginal success over Bam Bam Bigelow in ECW, and some tag team bouts with the Dudley Boyz, which he and Sabu split. The match with Bigelow lasted under 4 minutes. Oh, and stunning an SHW with flying kicks which they end up swatting away isn't "putting up a fight." It's trying to stay alive. Face it, Justin, Vader would SQUASH RVD in 10 minutes flat. Vader may carry over a bloody nose from some "educated feet" but not nearly what Savage carries from HHH. Besides, look at RVD against Lesnar and Undertaker - the man is lost against larger guys because he can't do his chain wrestling high spots that made him famous!

    Because Vader doesn't chase them. He waits, and he counters, and then he picks them apart. Besides, Vader in his prime wasn't the overweight fat guy that he was in WWF in the late 90's (when he was still really awesome) but in his prime was a man who crushed legends in Japan and won three WCW World Titles against men faster and stronger than Savage, such as Sting. He hits the ropes just fine, Justin, just go into the "why Vader defeats Savage" thread and click on the matches to see how well he did. AND PLEASE don't tell me that a 400-lb man who can hit a perfect moonsault doesn't know how to work the ropes.

    Vader swats these away, ask Sting.

    If he can drive Vader down, and if Vader doesn't reverse it and pick him up.

    Crossbodies? Have you ever watched Vader fight? He'll catch Savage and splash him into a bug.

    Sorry, Vader doesn't need a ref bump to cheat and win, that's Savages M.O. But I am glad you recognize that this would work against Savage as much as for him.

    Savage is great, but he doesn't match up well with Vader at all. And as fo "I don't care what anyone else says or thinks," well, if you felt that way you would not feel the need to justify your opinion with your post, so don't even bother with the silly 90's grunge "I don't care" stance. I'd red rep you with "your face" if I didn't like ya so damn much.
     
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  15. Skullz Crack'Em

    Skullz Crack'Em Celtic Warrior

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    This is a tough one, it is hard to choose between these two, Vader has the slight stamina advantage, but Savage will have the momentum going for him in this match. After much deliberation, I will be voting for the Macho Man Randy Savage, he has enough speed and strength to actually pull off some big moves on the Mastadon and not to mention the durability to take a lot of punishment from him. Vader's time in this tournament has come to an end, he will fall victim to the classic "Face Comeback" like all the other monster-sized wrestlers before him. Savage wins with the Elbow Drop in 21 minutes.
     
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  16. MattButcher

    MattButcher The Final Word

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    I seriously don't see how people can interpret this match as going to Savage. I don't think he is a better wrestler than Vader. Savage has great stamina and can tell a story beautifully in the ring, but Vader has a more varied arsenal and had the kind of physicality to make big moments happen.

    Savage did have a title reign in the midst of Hulkamania and that is a big deal, but Vader (as a heel) got a clean pin for the WCW championship over their top babyface (Sting) which was a big deal as well. Speaking of clean pins, a lot of Savage's big wins have come as a result of foreign objects or outside interference.

    Part of Savage's appeal as a performer is the fact that he gets the crap kicked out of him and than rallies to get the win. The result of this is that he's been absolutely man-handled by the likes of Bad News Allen, Ted DiBiase, Sting, and others. I think it would be safe to say that a similar scenario would have been reenacted with HHH. Going through another series of beatings with Vader would be insane.

    I also don't see how a tired Savage has much in his repertoire to deal with Vader. Running elbow? A double axe handle on a guy Vader's size seems more comical than anything else, and I don't see Savage pulling up Vader for the jump piledriver. Vader is versed in heavy striking, submissions, power moves, and even a few high flying maneuvers which gives him plenty of ways to dispatch with Savage.

    Again I don't think Vader was ever as big of a star as Savage in this country and I realize that there are elements to the game in which Savage is superior to Vader. Given the circumstances, however, I think Vader takes this one after a brief but ultimately hopeless rally by Savage. It's not hype, he was really that good.
     
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  17. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    First off, I want to thank each and every one of Big Van Vader's supporters. It's refreshing to see such respect being paid to a man who was not a part of the Vince McMahon Marketing Machine. Vader is getting by on raw talent and reputation alone.

    Unlike the people who backed Rob Van Dam last round, I totally understand why people would want to vote for Savage. He's the more popular, mainstream choice, and it's ok to be mainstream sometimes. Metallica went mainstream in the late 90's and they made tons of money doing it. It's natural. Savage was also a big face wrestler for much of his career, where Vader got by almost ALWAYS being a heel.

    It is also refreshing to see a Super Heavyweight getting this kind of respect. I had always seen an aversion to them, being labeled "fat," "out of shape," or "slow." Obviously, Vader transcends those stereotypes with his ability to outlast 3 Japanese legends in one night, perform moonsaults and top rope splashes, and still be an impenatrable monster. He is truly the ultimate combination of size, speed, strength, agility, etc. Vader is now remembered the way Andre the Giant SHOULD have been, had it done been for the late career deterioration.

    Keep the Vader train going, folks. The man deserves it, because he fucking earned it.
     
  18. TheOneBigWill

    TheOneBigWill [This Space for Rent]

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    I voted for Randy Savage, and here's why.

    This is the second match of the evening. Randy Savage has went through tournament style matches before and won them. Thereby giving him the edge with stamina.

    Vader isn't shit like everyone keeps saying, hes a great big man wrestler. However the key is, hes still a big man. And as such, he'd likely be winded very quickly in this match, since it would be his second of the night.

    Savage has the ability to wear down bigger wrestlers by simply using his speed and agility against them. All Savage needs to do in capitalizing in this match, is merely hit and move.

    The only thing that works AGAINST Savage, in Vader's favor, is Savage has been known to be wreckless and careless against bigger sized athletes. He (Savage) doesn't take into consideration that hes smaller, and he often thinks he can stand toe to toe with them. (remember his wars with the Giant in W.C.W.)

    As a result, if Vader were to lay in a few large sized moves, along with those bear-like clubs for hands.. Vader could easily win the match.

    I think Savage would attempt playing it smart, however, in realizing that this is a tournament style match and as such, he'd pace himself. He'd want to make sure he doesn't take unneeded risks. Thereby, allowing Savage to pick up the win.. after Vader runs out of gas.

    Oh yeah, the match is also in Florida, which is Savage's backyard. The fans would eat Vader alive.. and Vader has had moments where hes allowed the fans to get to him. Thus, that definately works against him as well.
     
  19. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    Man, you just have not read ANYTHING I have posted so far, have you? And now you've gone and made your vote. Silly Will.

    Vader performed better than Savage in one-night, single elimination tournaments. If you need proof, I have posted all 3 of Vader's matches under a thread entitles "Why Vader goes over Randy Savage." It would have been great research for you.

    I have also pointed out that Vader would expend FAR less energy performing power moves on Savage due to his strength. Savage, on the other hand, has to expend mounds of energy just to knock the big man down.

    We have also already discussed how Vader would damn near murder RVD in under 10 minutes. His stinging, chain-wrestling, spot monkey style only worked ONE TIME for RVD against an SHW, and that was Bam Bam Bigelow when RVD was being groomed to become the face of the promotion. When he faced Brock Lesnar, it was mismatch city, because the power of the bigger, stronger man neutralized RVD's high flying, stinging moves. The simple fact that you'd call Vader, a 3-time WCW World Champion and 3-time IWGP World Champion, being victorious over Rob Van Dam, I marginal 1-time WWE Champion, an upset is well beyond human understanding.

    Savage is great, no question, and he does have more power than RVD did. But Vader isn't "sucking wind through a straw" because he IS in such great shape. Savage had a much tougher 1st round match than Vader did AND Vader has performed at the top of his game, defeating 3 legit Japanese Legends in one night, and defeating them CLEANLY, vs Savage's victories over Butch Reed, One Man Gang, Greg Valentine, and a win over Ted DiBiase which he could only win with help from Hogan.

    Man, had you only done your research. In the words of Gorilla Monsoon, YOU, Will, have committed a miscarriage of justice.
     
  20. Ryukuma

    Ryukuma Occasional Pre-Show

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    I voted for Vader

    My reasoning for this is because in his prime, he wasn't a complete fatass who couldn't move. The guy was quick and extremely powerful. Hes main evented exactly like Savage has only in different places. As much as I do love RVD and all he wouldn't hit that hard on the big man. And if RVD did try any outer assaults on Vader, and then vader catches him, well then hes going to be getting slammed into a whole lot of steel.

    Savage while great and has main evented where hes been as well, never actually won any major feuds, and he will not have as much power as vader. He also took on triple H last round, and who as we all know will hit lots of powerful impact moves, and would leave savage hurting for alot of the night.

    As for stamina through tournaments, well Irish showed the tournament records, and it doesn't appear as if Vader gets as winded as you would like to believe
     
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  21. cam2222

    cam2222 New Member

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    I picked Vader.... I am very short on these 2 mens history but I like Vader cause I know more about him :p
     
  22. Evan Snow-Wolf

    Evan Snow-Wolf Running On Diesel Fuel!

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    Anyone else find this current poll to be really, REALLY freaking close?

    I had no idea it would run this close, although I am having a really hard time believing that Vader is more tired after fighting RVD than Savage is of beating Triple H. A 1 vote margin of error seems off, but I guess that's the beauty of open poll voting. ;)
     
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  23. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    THIS IS MY FINAL PUSH!

    Vote Big Van Vader over Randy Savage. This tournament SHOULD come down to The Phenom vs the Greatest Superheavyweight in Wrestling History. Vader is fresher coming into this match than Savage was coming out of his match with HHH, and Vader has significant, dominant tournament experience. If you have not yet voted in this match, please, make the right choice and VOTE VADER!

    SHOCKEY? SHADOW? WHERE ARE YOU!?

    Savage has a poor record against SHW's.

    Vader has owned 3-match single elim one-night tournaments in Japan.

    Vader is twice as strong as Savage and nearly as quick and agile.

    Vader has won feuds against Sting, Cactus Jack, Ron Simmons, and Ric Flair.

    Savage needed outside interference from Hogan to win his 1st world title, and a tights pull to win his 2nd.

    VOTE VADER!

    MAKE TAKER VS VADER THE FINAL!!!
     
  24. DJ

    DJ I've wrestled alot of countries

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    Why are people voting for Savage?Vader in every catogrey matchess and beats Savage.

    Stanima-Look at Vaders 3 wins over 3 brillant wrestlers in one night.Now Look at Savage-2 useless guys and he won the final match thanks to a chair shot.

    Power-Come on!Savage was strong but Vader would kill em!

    Speed-As seen in this weeks match of the week vader isn,t afraid of running or hitting a few clothslines.


    Think of everything.Savage will not beat Vader in any way.
     
  25. justinsayne

    justinsayne Cody Rhodes is an excellant

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    THIS IS MY FINAL PUSH!

    Voter Randy Savage over Big Crappy Vader. This tournament SHOULD come down to The Phenom vs the Macho Man. Savage is better coming into this match than Vader (Who sucks BTW) was coming out of his match, and Savage has significant, dominant tournament experience in tournaments that mean something. If you have not yet voted in this match, please, make the right choice and VOTE SAVAGE!

    SHOCKEY? SHADOW? WHERE ARE YOU!?

    Savage has won 2 major single elim tournaments (WM4 & KOTR).

    Savage is quicker and more agile than Vader.

    Vader has lost to Edge in less than 5 mins. so what's to say Savage couldn't do the same.

    Savage needed outside interference from Hogan to win his 1st world title, and a tights pull to win his 2nd and he'll do the same if necessary to beat Vader, after all no one ever said every match was gonna be won cleanly.

    VOTE SAVAGE!

    MAKE TAKER VS SAVAGE THE FINAL!!!
     
    IrishCanadian25 likes this.

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