Wrestlemania 28: John Cena VS The Rock

[#Zombienatureboy]

I'm sure Cena and Rock did exactly what VKM told them to do, took their paycheck, and went home. Anything else is just assumptions.

 

[RJJ]

You realize the 2 stars you said he "put over" at WrestleMania are Stone Cold Steve Austin and Triple H? I mean, if you can't put the biggest star the industry has ever seen since Hulk Hogan and the heir apparent to the WWE conglomerate then you've got issues.

I'm not one of these people saying Rock is selfish for going over Cena, although I thought Cena winning made more business sense... but I just had to call you out and thinking Rock is humble for putting those two guys over.

That's like saying Johnny Depp is humble if he allows Leonardo DiCaprio and George Clooney first billing on a movie poster. They're megastars... it's not a huge shot to the ego.

At WM 17, I think they made the right choice by giving him the title at WM 17, but I think they choose the wrong opponent in Rock, that's why that match ended the way it ended. You can't end a match between face Rock and face Austin clean(Both in their primes by the way), without making one of them look weak. Hey, I got nothing to complain about that match, it was possibly the greatest WM match ever, but I think HHH would've been the right opponent for austin that night.

As far as HHH goes, he simply got no business going over Rock at WM 16.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

You realize the 2 stars you said he "put over" at WrestleMania are Stone Cold Steve Austin and Triple H? I mean, if you can't put the biggest star the industry has ever seen since Hulk Hogan and the heir apparent to the WWE conglomerate then you've got issues.

I'm not one of these people saying Rock is selfish for going over Cena, although I thought Cena winning made more business sense... but I just had to call you out and thinking Rock is humble for putting those two guys over.

That's like saying Johnny Depp is humble if he allows Leonardo DiCaprio and George Clooney first billing on a movie poster. They're megastars... it's not a huge shot to the ego.

The Austin argument only works for 15. By 17 Rock surpassed and as a result should have had his moment and won that match. And the year before Trips was just about a half year into his main event push. By no strech was he established. He became established by The Rock putting him over at 2000 and the numerous rematches after including Trips beating Rock in a iron man match.

Just because it didn't happen at Mania does not lessen The Rock putting over numerous others like Angle and Jericho.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

A couple points I want to touch on that I have seen over the past few pages.

1) Cena needed to go over Rock to show he could go over on a attitude era star.

Now Cena's checklist includes back to back submission mania victories over Trips and Shawn and during his first title reign he squashed Angle and Jericho. Those are 4 huge names and guys that he completely went over on.

2) Who exactly has Cena put over?

This is moreso me making my point, but this guy until this mania has been in a title match for 7 manias in a row and won 5 of them. Now the two he lost, one was a triple threat where Orton sneaked his way into victory and the other was last year after Rock Rock Bottomed him. Cena's legacy at mania is a selfish one with him always on top.

Why should The Rock put over Cena when Cena has made a carrier out of putting no one over. Unlike The Rock who (has been shown here) has had no problem putting people over during his time.

 

[#Zombienatureboy]

Rock and Cena do what Vince McMahon tells them to do. It's possible Rock said "I'll come back if I go over at Wrestlemania" and Vince saw $$$$ and told Cena "You're gonna job to Rock at Wrestlemania 28."

I don't think Cena said "No way Vince I'm not putting Rock over." And they had a big argument about it.

All of this is decided by VKM and creative.

If John Cena was sitting around telling VKM who he was going to put over and what he was going to do and who he was and wasn't going to job to, he'd be in the unemployment line with Ultimate Warrior or at TNA with Hulk Hogan.

 

[MAHGAWD]

There had to be some sort of "audible" ending if for no other reason that they had to stretch the match out as long as possible, so they needed a "go to the finish" signal of some sort right before the end.

I agree.. Something was said to cena by the ref before the bell.. Then cena was tellin the rock during the "rest holds". Then to top it off.. Rock takes an awkward spill over the ropes then runs out of gas.. So that had to have everybody scratching their heads on what to do. I think Rock was gonna win regardless.. But it was obvious there were a he'll of a lot of audibles during the match.

 

[LittleJimmy]

You know, I knew that as soon as the refs hand hit the mat a 3rd time to score the pin for The Rock that Cena fans would be on here bitching the The Rock played politics to get over in the match. Here are some points to take away from the match.

1) The call to have Rock go over was made by McMahon and no one else. IMO, that call was made a while ago, way before the match took place.

2) This lose does not hurt Cena one bit, his character will go on. It is actually more interesting to see what happens tonight now that he lost rather than the some old "I won, next!!" had he won. Remember, Cena was doing it for "the boys in the back", so now what happens when he failed.

3) VKM was more interested in sending the WM event audience home happy than us watching on TV. It was in Miami, so having Rock win makes more sense.

4)The argument of "Rock needed to pass the torch" and "Cena should go over the Attitude Era guy" is such bullshit. How many times does Cena need the torch passed to him. Once? Twice? A dozen times? He has had the torch passed to him before, it is not needed again.

5)There will be a re-match IMO, probably at SummerSlam which will see Cena go over on The Rock then maybe have a tiebreaker at WM29. Remember The Rock has commited to WM29 already.

I really do think that CeNation needs to go on a 7day suicide watch.

EDIT: Also, those who think The Rock was "gassed" after 5 minutes need to get a grasp on reality. Rock was selling the match, a trait that is not really found in today's superstar.

 

[JJYanks121]

Just so we're clear, all the "Cena heel turn" marks understand that if that does happen, all your favorites like Dolph and Cody Rhodes and Del Rio and Miz and Christian all suffer right?

Think about it. If Cena is on the bad guy side (something I still think is utterly stupid on so many levels), then all the other bad guys pale in comparison. The magnitude of your bigger star being bad (and he IS the biggest star by a wide margin. I like Punk and he's #2 but he's a long way away from having the star power of John Cena) is more grandiose than you can imagine. It's not that Cena will go bad and not go near the title. If you think that, you're stupid. End of story. Cena as a bad guy would be near the title more than Cena as a good guy. As a good guy and THE top guy, up and coming heels want to take out Cena regardless of whether he has the belt. You can create stories solely on that premise alone. As a heel, he won't have that. He'll be the best guy by a wide margin with jerky actions. That guy wouldn't start having an ego and only going for the title? Come on.

So it's two fold and both folds provide all the people who have been clamoring for this absolutely nothing of what they want. Cena still "hogs" the main event and now moreso than ever, and all the other guys these people cheer for (other heels) now are viewed less prominently because none of them will ever match John Cena.

The last point is that "bad guy Cena" would have basically nothing to do. Right now the ONLY top faces in the company are Punk, Sheamus, and Orton. Two of those guys will be on Raw with "bad" Cena conceivably so let's say Orton and Punk since Sheamus holds the WHC. After you do both feuds, then what for Cena? The next 3 over babyfaces are Santino, Ryder, and Brodus. You excited about a Santino/Cena feud?

Remember how the Stone Cold turn got old quick? That's what would happen here but worse I think. Cena, because he's that much of a company guy, would embrace the bad guy role and cease to be what Stone Cold became. When Steve turned, he had a really good first couple of weeks and then he decided he wanted to be funny so that nobody would take him seriously as a bad guy and would want to cheer him again. Steve says he loved being a heel at the beginning of his career yet when given the chance to do it again, he dropped the ball. I don't think Cena would but he'd simply have nothing to do. You have a heel GM who has his guys already so there's not a story to do there, you have only a couple of top faces with no one really on the horizon to become a top face so he has limited competition, and the only saving grace MAYBE is Brock Lesnar but we've seen heel Cena vs. face Lesnar. If anything, we need to see both be faces (and Lesnar a face only because he's returning) and just let them both be awesome. There's really no scenario in which John Cena becoming a bad guy does any wonders for the company. I'd argue that doing so actually sets the company back a few years.

This is a business about making money and in staying away from the cliches like "merchandise sales" and "cash cow", I'm showing how Cena being bad doesn't make the company additional money. A 6 month Cena "turn" before the thing gets old is not worth it which is why I'm still skeptical on that being the end result here. The thing is, I'm skeptical on the whole thing. If the plan is a return match in NY, that's a stupid idea. If you think Miami's crowd got on Cena, imagine what will happen in New York. And no, don't tell me that "Cena will be a heel so it won't matter". Making him one in the matchup is about the worst thing you could do in this situation. New York will shit on the situation and either cheer the crap out of Cena because my state is dumb or they'll just create a weird thing where Cena can't win or violence will happen. He'll win and we're just stupid enough to have a situation happen because of a wrestling match. Then wrestling gets condemned and the business suffers because sanctions are created to prevent "horrible travesties" like that.

All of these things came to mind when Cena got pinned last night. It was undoubtedly a risky if not stupid move and one that for sure won't sit well with any talent. On top of that, I'm sure the guys in the back didn't appreciate the Rock "dead weighting" Cena a few times in the early going. I used to love The Rock, but if what I saw and perceived is true, I lost some respect for him. The match itself was good but not great with nothing especially memorable happening in it except for the finish. I felt the way I felt when Hogan pinned HBK in 2005.........why? The only explanation for such a thing in this situation is one I've given plenty of reason to be against. I don't think there's a good exit strategy here and the way I felt after WM26 where I felt the guard was changing and that new stars would be taking the new WWE to great places is exactly the opposite of how I feel now. Very ominous about the prospects of 2012 WWE. This very well could be the end of the world as we know it as Jericho predicted.

 

[RJJ]

I agree.. Something was said to cena by the ref before the bell.. Then cena was tellin the rock during the "rest holds". Then to top it off.. Rock takes an awkward spill over the ropes then runs out of gas.. So that had to have everybody scratching their heads on what to do. I think Rock was gonna win regardless.. But it was obvious there were a he'll of a lot of audibles during the match.

Nothing was wrong. Rock just ran out of gas half way through, so they decided to slow down the base a little bit. As far as the audibles(Calling spots), hey give them a break, it's thier 1st encounter ever, they didn't work on house shows, and to be honest, I don't even think they worked enough indoor for that match. It takes doezens of matches to have a great chemistry with another superstar, it doesn't happen overnight.

I think everything was going great untill that hiptoss from Cena which was followed by a head lock takedown.

Anyway, I didn't expect a 5 star wrestling match, I expected a great story, and both men told a great story last night. Cena did what he said he would do, and that's beating the hell out of The Rock, but that one mistake(Going for the people's elbow) cost him everything. That Rock bottom was heared around the world, and the pop after the 3 count will be remembered for ever.

I'm pretty sure, they will do alot better in their next match(Rock-Cena II).

 

[#Zombienatureboy]

I'm still confused about how Rock going over was good for WWE. I really dislike Cena. I enjoyed Rock during the Attitude Era, but I felt his comeback was somewhat tired. He seemed to be phoning it in.

Regardless, you took (arguably) your top babyface, the guy you have invested so much time and money into and a guy who has made you millions, and you had him job at the Wrestlemania "Match of a Lifetime" to a guy who hasn't wrestled in years and isn't even full time.

Obviously VKM knew a Rock/Cena match would draw money and it sure did that. But having Rock go over was very surprising. I'm sure VKM had a reason for it, I just can't figure out what that is.

 

[Chrome]

I'm still confused about how Rock going over was good for WWE.

Yeah, Cena definitely won't survive that. Whatever will he do now that his 10 year undefeated streak has been broken? Gosh, and he was SO close to being 650 and 0. Come off it, man. He's lost before, he'll lose again, he'll still be Cena.


Cena losing CLEANLY and ONCE in God knows how long is gong to destroy his character, reputation, history, etc. Cena is still the top guy in the company. Nothing has changed. This was GREAT for business. Now everyone wants to tune into Raw to see how Cena will react. Plus it gives Rock more credibility when he comes back to wrestle again. When Rock does put someone over in the future(probably Cena) it will mean alot more now. They had to put Rock over in order to use him again in the future. Glad to see Cena being a company guy, just like Rock always was. Rock has a far better track record of putting guys over....Cena, not so much...

I believe this was Cena's first real CLEAN loss in a long time.

I mean the last one I can think of was "Batista at Summerslam 2008"..?

You can't even count .. CM Punk at Summer Slam because there were shenangians there too. remember his foot was on the rope and Triple H didn't see it.

Regardles Clean or not, it doesn't make a difference. A single loss is not going to destroy the star power of John Cena...(Whatever that may be.) It's a ridiculous notion. Every icon that has ever laced them up has had numerous clean losses on their records. Are they any less icons for it? Is Hogan less of a legend for losing to Rock? Or is he less of a legend for hacking away at his legacy for years with reality TV and TNA?

I mean, a prime example is Randy Orton. He lost cleanly to Kane last night. He lost cleanly to Wade Barrett before that. He lost cleanly to Mark Henry before that. But, if Randy Orton suddenly turned heel (as he should) and RKO'ed the hell out of CM Punk, challenged him for the WWE Title and won it, would it be ridiculous? No. Because he's still main-event. A clean loss here or there means nothing. Now, getting buried like The Miz (was) or Jack Swagger, that's a different story.

 

[delco714]

well now we know why this happened! Rock wants the WWE Title.. I assume he'll get it then Cena will win it at Summer Slam or maybe WM29 depending on how involved rock is?

 

[grantedisme]

Yeah, Cena definitely won't survive that. Whatever will he do now that his 10 year undefeated streak has been broken? Gosh, and he was SO close to being 650 and 0. Come off it, man. He's lost before, he'll lose again, he'll still be Cena.

Don't be thick. He clearly wasn't claiming that Cena should never lose a match. To me and at least a few other fans, this was billed as the match that gives Cena credibility and shows that the WWE has moved on from the attitude era once and for all. This wasn't a regular match between two regular guys. This was the past against the present and future, and the past won. Like the guy you responded to said, they are probably building to something, so I'm definitely going to keep watching and waiting for what it is, but I can't even imagine what it is.

Cena losing CLEANLY and ONCE in God knows how long is gong to destroy his character, reputation, history, etc. Cena is still the top guy in the company. Nothing has changed. This was GREAT for business. Now everyone wants to tune into Raw to see how Cena will react. Plus it gives Rock more credibility when he comes back to wrestle again. When Rock does put someone over in the future(probably Cena) it will mean alot more now. They had to put Rock over in order to use him again in the future. Glad to see Cena being a company guy, just like Rock always was. Rock has a far better track record of putting guys over....Cena, not so much...

Cena put over Orton, Sheamus, Nexus, The Miz, Del Rio, CM Punk, and The Rock in the last couple of years while being a major face who is no where near retirement. When The Rock was at the highest point of his career as a face before deciding to leave for movies (which cuts out Goldberg, Brock, Helms, and Orton), how many up-and-comers did The Rock put over? I'm not saying that he was completely selfish or even that he is any worse than Cena, but to say that he has a "far better track record" at this is pure ignorance.

I believe this was Cena's first real CLEAN loss in a long time.

I mean the last one I can think of was "Batista at Summerslam 2008"..?

You can't even count .. CM Punk at Summer Slam because there were shenangians there too. remember his foot was on the rope and Triple H didn't see it.

You don't have to have a CLEAN loss to put someone over. CM Punk has been putting Jericho over without even losing any single matches to him. Furthermore, if he isn't losing clean to anyone, why should Rock get a clean win over a star who needs credibility? I'd actually argue that if anyone beats Cena clean right now, it will mean less than it would have before last night.

Regardles Clean or not, it doesn't make a difference. A single loss is not going to destroy the star power of John Cena...(Whatever that may be.) It's a ridiculous notion. Every icon that has ever laced them up has had numerous clean losses on their records. Are they any less icons for it? Is Hogan less of a legend for losing to Rock? Or is he less of a legend for hacking away at his legacy for years with reality TV and TNA?

Honestly, as someone who doesn't really like Hogan, I enjoy every dig taken at him. That being said, it's not the same. Hogan was in the position that The Rock was in during Mania. If The Rock had lost to Hogan, I think it would have been just as bad as I think it is for Cena losing last night. Hogan's legacy was actually better for having put over The Rock, since it showed that he was embracing the present and the future. You're right, though; one loss will not kill Cena, but it certainly is a blow to his current credibility as the face of the business, and it marks the first time that I believe WWE/F has blatantly picked the past over the present.

I mean, a prime example is Randy Orton. He lost cleanly to Kane last night. He lost cleanly to Wade Barrett before that. He lost cleanly to Mark Henry before that. But, if Randy Orton suddenly turned heel (as he should) and RKO'ed the hell out of CM Punk, challenged him for the WWE Title and won it, would it be ridiculous? No. Because he's still main-event. A clean loss here or there means nothing. Now, getting buried like The Miz (was) or Jack Swagger, that's a different story.

Again, this isn't a good comparison (and also, I don't think Orton has ever lost to Barrett clean, but I could be wrong). Orton and Punk are major faces for sure, and Kane, Wade, and Barrett are good heels, but that's where they stop. Cena is the biggest name in the industry as a whole today. A win against him, even one that isn't clean, is currently the greatest accomplishment that anyone can get after they work for years to hone their craft and get the crowd going wildly for or against them (Punk and Orton, funnily enough, being the best examples of this). One thing I'll agree with some people, this win gives The Rock instant credibility. However, I also think that it, at least temporarily, hurts Cena's.

Look at tonight. Brock gave Cena an F5. Aside from the fact that everyone, myself included, jumped when we saw Brock come out, I have a feeling that a good number of people are saying "so what?" Cena just got beaten by a guy who hasn't had a singles match in close to 10 years. How is it a big deal that another star who has been away for years just beat him up on his own? I honestly believe that Brock could have come out and done his F5 to Punk, Orton, Jericho, The Miz, Christian, or even Jinder Mahal (not that I'm putting all of these people on the same level as each other), and it could have meant just as much if not more in some cases to Brock's return statement. I can't imagine that I'd feel the same way if Cena won last night, even if it left him "weakened".

 

[MissLeigh80]

Don't be thick. He clearly wasn't claiming that Cena should never lose a match. To me and at least a few other fans, this was billed as the match that gives Cena credibility and shows that the WWE has moved on from the attitude era once and for all. This wasn't a regular match between two regular guys. This was the past against the present and future, and the past won. Like the guy you responded to said, they are probably building to something, so I'm definitely going to keep watching and waiting for what it is, but I can't even imagine what it is.

I have to respond to some of your points in this post because alot of them are opinions that I have as well. This match should have given Cena the credibility that he so rightly deserves since he has been busting his ass off for years doing everything he could to bring WWE back into the mainstream (which he has done amazingly imo). The Rock has more than established himself and one of the greatest wrestlers to ever live, but he left to make movies etc and hasn't been back to wrestle until now. Yes John has also done movies and made other thousands of appearances but he didn't need to leave WWE to do it, he stayed ad still did other things besides wrestling.

Cena put over Orton, Sheamus, Nexus, The Miz, Del Rio, CM Punk, and The Rock in the last couple of years while being a major face who is no where near retirement. When The Rock was at the highest point of his career as a face before deciding to leave for movies (which cuts out Goldberg, Brock, Helms, and Orton), how many up-and-comers did The Rock put over? I'm not saying that he was completely selfish or even that he is any worse than Cena, but to say that he has a "far better track record" at this is pure ignorance.

Cena has definately helped to put many a young superstar over or help them out with their career, I haven't seen much if any of that from The Rock since he left to be some big movie star so him being so fantastic isn't wrong but it isn't right either.

You don't have to have a CLEAN loss to put someone over. CM Punk has been putting Jericho over without even losing any single matches to him. Furthermore, if he isn't losing clean to anyone, why should Rock get a clean win over a star who needs credibility? I'd actually argue that if anyone beats Cena clean right now, it will mean less than it would have before last night.

Your exactly right, since when did a clean pinfall need to occur in order to put someone over? How many dirty or tainted pinfalls have put superstars over due to their sheer ability to wrestle and tell a great story. No you don't have to win clean to be put over or to even put someone over, just have a wonderful match and that should be enough.

Honestly, as someone who doesn't really like Hogan, I enjoy every dig taken at him. That being said, it's not the same. Hogan was in the position that The Rock was in during Mania. If The Rock had lost to Hogan, I think it would have been just as bad as I think it is for Cena losing last night. Hogan's legacy was actually better for having put over The Rock, since it showed that he was embracing the present and the future. You're right, though; one loss will not kill Cena, but it certainly is a blow to his current credibility as the face of the business, and it marks the first time that I believe WWE/F has blatantly picked the past over the present.

I don't much have an opinion of Hogan's match with The Rock but I do agree that he was better for having lost to Rock and put him over which it certainly helped to catapult him into history as being one of the greatest ever. Hogan lost that match I'm sure to put over Rock, not that he really needed to be put over because Dwayne was already hugely over but it was nice to see Hogan give Rock his due respect in the business. So here you have Rock and Cena wrestling against one another and while yes it was in Rock's hometown, who had more to gain from this win? Obviously Cena did, and to give it to Dwayne who will just more or less be leaving the WWE to make more movies really didn't make any sense to me. I have to agree too that by picking the Rock the WWE blatantly chose the past over the present, and if I was Cena I would see that as a huge slap in the face.

Again, this isn't a good comparison (and also, I don't think Orton has ever lost to Barrett clean, but I could be wrong). Orton and Punk are major faces for sure, and Kane, Wade, and Barrett are good heels, but that's where they stop. Cena is the biggest name in the industry as a whole today. A win against him, even one that isn't clean, is currently the greatest accomplishment that anyone can get after they work for years to hone their craft and get the crowd going wildly for or against them (Punk and Orton, funnily enough, being the best examples of this). One thing I'll agree with some people, this win gives The Rock instant credibility. However, I also think that it, at least temporarily, hurts Cena's.

Look at tonight. Brock gave Cena an F5. Aside from the fact that everyone, myself included, jumped when we saw Brock come out, I have a feeling that a good number of people are saying "so what?" Cena just got beaten by a guy who hasn't had a singles match in close to 10 years. How is it a big deal that another star who has been away for years just beat him up on his own? I honestly believe that Brock could have come out and done his F5 to Punk, Orton, Jericho, The Miz, Christian, or even Jinder Mahal (not that I'm putting all of these people on the same level as each other), and it could have meant just as much if not more in some cases to Brock's return statement. I can't imagine that I'd feel the same way if Cena won last night, even if it left him "weakened".

To me yes that win at WM28 did give The Rock instant credibility, but did he really need it? No he didn't, he is already a very credible wrestler however in many ways Cena is not so having Dwayne win never made sense to me at all. I'll be one of the first ones to admit that I was ecstatic to see Brock Lesnar come out to the ring with John, but the F5? Your seriously going to take someone who left the WWE for the UFC and who came back, for whatever reason he did, just go up to the face of your company and do that to him? Cena has been the WWE's whipping boy for too long now and for the man of your company who has busted his balls/ass etc to get slapped in the face twice in two days (first losing to Dwayne and then getting hit with the F5 by Brock) is like saying all the years you've worked for us mean nothing ......... I for one DO want Cena to turn heel and just go on a tear!

 

[MayorMcCheese]

WOW

Reading this thread, people actually thought WM was a bad show?

I thought all the big matches delivered, I thought Orton/Kane had a really good match as well, Cena/Rock was a great match IMO....Rock had no ring rust, Cena did a great job with the tempo of the match, no botches.

The loss does not hurt Cena at all, if anything his character is now much more interesting, should he have embraced the hate? hopefully that is brought up

People saying Rock was "gassed" I guess you new generation of fans don't know what real selling is, he probably was tired to an extent, but it's a PHYSICAL MATCH, HE SHOULD LOOK TIRED!! HE HASN'T WRESTLED A SINGLES MATCH IN 9 YEARS!!!!

Wrestling fans are really hard to please these days

 

[adamosmani]

When i first herd about Rock vs Cena, I automatically thought that Rock would put over Cena, even throughout the match at WrestleMania. Either way, I was excited to see Rock return, and even say that this is "just the beginning" gets me excited, because even though there are many great upcoming talents on the roster (Ziggler, Rhodes, Bryan), their is a lack of star power. Having Rock come back to WWE is great for Vince, is great for business. I never thought I would see Rock beat Cena. Then I realised, if Cena left Miami the winner, the fans in the arena would go home dissapointed. People flew across the world just to see The Rock return to the ring after 8 years. Even though Rock won (which im stoked about), Cena will be fine. Cena will still be "the guy" in WWE, no matter what happened at WrestleMania.

 

[Stockwell38]

I really thought the Rock was gonna pass the tourch to Cena.
The way Hogan did for him years back. Now we see Lesner in the mix and i suppose Cena is gonna have to lay down for him too.