Winter is Coming - The Night is Dark and Full of Spoilers

[Dowdsy McDowds]

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/06/04/game-of-thrones-new-characters-being-cast-for-season-5

No indication of any new Greyjoys but it could be the case that their casting details just haven't been leaked.

 

[Барбоса]

Areo Hotah...

Oh yes.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

I really hope that the increase in cast size will mean an increase in episodes now. I've really enjoyed the episodes where the story in one location is given more than 2 scenes an episode and with quite a bit going on in or affecting Dorne, I'd like them to base most of the first few episodes there.

Can't wait for Mondays episode though if it will end how I think it will...

Spoiler

Stannis saving the motherfucking day

 

[Барбоса]

I would like to see the Battle of Castle Black last more than one episode.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

I wouldn't complain if it did.

 

[Alastor]

I don't think Sam was at Castle Black in the books during the siege but I don't remember Sam being so forward with Gilly until much later and was fighting it more. The twist of Jon Snow self sacrificing himself at the end was ergh as well. I know they cut out almost all the minor characters but couldn't they have used Janos as in the books for that? Since they already made him a coward it would just as well be him to suggest to treat with Mance in a suicide mission.

Seems so Hollywood to me to make Jon Snow the martyr.

Spoiler

Seems like fking Stannis is saving the day much later. Tyrion or Stannis to end the season?

 

[Барбоса]

Sam wasn't at the battle of Castle Black in the books. He and Gilly had not made it back from the Fist of the First Men debacle.

Didn't think there was any need for Jon's mission to kill Mance to be a self-sacrifice. Having it be the same in the book with Ser Allister sending him to do it would have worked better. Also thought that Jon should have been the one to kill Ygritte not some snot-nosed runt.

Liked the addition of the deaths of Pip and Grenn, as well as giving the latter the giant kill. Neither character has done much in the books since the defeat of the Wildlings so they should not be missed and the siege in the books was conspicuously lacking in even minor deaths. All except Donal "the one-armed Giant-slayer" Noye, who has been unfortunately excised from the show.

Glad the siege has been stretched to more than one episode. I suspect that events in Kings Landing will get the last viewing this season though as that is the biggest development.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/10/game-of-thrones-finale_n_5479391.html

They're clocking the finale at 66 minutes; longest episode I believe they've produced.

I'm pumped.

 

[Alastor]

Grenn's death was boss. To be honest Grenna and Pyp was so insignificant in the show I didn't realize they were in the show. I hope GRRM give them a more significant role in later books just to fuck with the show.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

I actually really liked Alliser Thorne's fight and while I knew he wouldn't put down Tormund, who was bloody ferocious, it was good to see him not back down. That 360 shot preceding Ygritte's death (thank the old gods and the new that it wasn't Sam who put her down) was excellent too.

 

[Барбоса]

I would have preferred Sam getting her than that little runt. Ghost would also have been acceptable.

Jon should have killed her by instinct after she hesitated in killing him during his fight with the Thenn and then cradled her.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

Well as a compromise, Sam was involved in her death after encouraging the wee man to get involved in the fight. Ghost's appearance was fleeting but satisfactorily bloody.

 

[Alex]

I feel Ghost should have mauled more people.

 

[Барбоса]

I feel Ghost should have mauled more people.

I think it was very poorly implied that his release was the breaking of Tormund's band, which of course begs the question as to why Jon took so long in letting him out.

The one thing that does not really make all that much sense both in the books and in the show is the idea that the initial wildling attack was merely testing the remaining strength of the Watch. It sounds okay on the surface but in reality, Mance wasted his best chance to overcome the Watch but not throwing everything at the tunnel immediately when Tormund, Ygritte and the Thenns were attacking Castle Black from the south.

Support Mag the Mighty in the ice tunnel and the Wall falls.

Now, even though the Watch has suffered further casualties, he won't have this diversion and surprise for his main attack and he has also given any reinforcements the chance to arrive.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

That wall scythe though...

 

[a0161613]

So many epic moments. Giant bow and arrow!

 

[Alastor]

I think it was very poorly implied that his release was the breaking of Tormund's band, which of course begs the question as to why Jon took so long in letting him out.

The one thing that does not really make all that much sense both in the books and in the show is the idea that the initial wildling attack was merely testing the remaining strength of the Watch. It sounds okay on the surface but in reality, Mance wasted his best chance to overcome the Watch but not throwing everything at the tunnel immediately when Tormund, Ygritte and the Thenns were attacking Castle Black from the south.

Support Mag the Mighty in the ice tunnel and the Wall falls.

Now, even though the Watch has suffered further casualties, he won't have this diversion and surprise for his main attack and he has also given any reinforcements the chance to arrive.

I think it was because he would be risking putting his army in a bottleneck exposing more of his army to attacks from the wall. Not really sure how it was explained in the books. I think he couldn't trust the whole force to obey orders and leading to huge losses before fighting the real enemies.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Wasn't the kid that offed Ygritte the one that watched his village get slaughtered?

I thought that was a good side story come full circle.

 

[Барбоса]

I think it was because he would be risking putting his army in a bottleneck exposing more of his army to attacks from the wall. Not really sure how it was explained in the books. I think he couldn't trust the whole force to obey orders and leading to huge losses before fighting the real enemies.

In such a siege that must be won by assault, the longer the siege goes on, the higher the casualties for the attacker.

Regardless of how much stock he put in Jon's claim that there were thousands on the Wall, once he had decided to commit Tormund's band (which contained his second in command and the Magnar of Thenn), Mance needed to throw everything he had at the tunnel. Clearly, he suspected that the giants could overpower the gate. Just ten men in support of Mag the Mighty and Castle Black falls.

Also the idea that he could not trust his forces works in the opposite way. If he feared its loyalty, then he must get through the Wall as quickly as possible and the quickest way was through an overwhelming attack in conjunction with Tormund.

A faint where he risks two of his most important commanders, two of his invaluable giants and the one strategic advantage he had to find out something that he already suspected - Castle Black is undermanned and the tunnel is the key - makes very little sense.

 

[Miko]

Show version of Ser Alisser is a boss, not quite Stannis levels of bossness, but a boss nonetheless. Also, Alisser vs Tormund might be my favourite 1 vs 1 so far, I enjoyed it more than Oberyn vs the Mountain anyway, which is a classic example of the show losing its grittiness in favour of a more fireworks approach (I know, the end was harrowing, especially the screams, but it was far more cartoonish than I' hoped) not that I have a problem with any of that, I am not that much of a snob, its just not entirely for me, too many flips and shit. Also nobody cares about show version of the mountain. Whereas show Alisser showing that underneath all that cunt is a real hero actually made for some real emotion in a fight with one of the biggest dicks amongst the good guys vs one of the most likeable bad guys. I actually fist pumped that he survived.

 

[Барбоса]

The hint that something was different with Ser Alliser was the admission that "We should have blocked the tunnel." I will admit that I thought he might be killed off after that.

Much like in the books with Donal, I feel somewhat cheated that the fight between Grenn and co. and Mag the Mighty was not shown. Likely it was something to do with the price/limitations of the CGI but still, I wanted to see Grenn go out with a real bang.

 

[Alastor]

I think showing the fight would have lessen the impact of the feeling of dread when they cut to the end result of their sacrifice. Worked well for me in the show.

It couldn't have been shown in the books since Donal wasn't a POV character.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

I don't mind not seeing Grenn fall as his speech to encourage the others was the first time this season that the full Night's Watch pledge was said, as far as I can recall.

To see him essentially cradled in Mag's arms was a touching enough image that I didn't feel cheated having not seen the other deaths within the tunnel.

 

[Miko]

It did bug me that Pyp wasn't in the tunnel as well, cos' you know, Pyp and Grenn, but I guess that'd have been too corny and obviously GOT doesn't like corny ("don't leave me alone in this world" "never" *proceeds to die* / Ygritte dying in slow motion / all the other corny shallow shit and brothel scenes)...

Also;

 

[Alastor]

Good episode and a great season finale. Stannis was boss. CGI cavalry was awesome looking. The wight fight at the 3 eye raven was cool for a tv show too. Killing off Jojen might be a big change in Bran's story but we are already missing ColdHands, what's one more major change in that bloody slow-burn of a storyline anyway? Especially for budget reasons since it make no sense to keep a role ongoing when he is going to just be whining away in a dark cave anyway.

Didn't really like the changes to Tywin and Tyrion part. Made it feel so rushed and anti-climatic. Certainly changed the relationship dynamic between Tyrion and Jamie. Having read the books, was kind of pissed when they had Arya and Brienne meet. But on second thought it could be just covering their ass to move Brienne's story forward without including the Brave Companions(already done) and lady Stoneheart(maybe) if they can't squeeze her into the show. But it did give us that awesome 1 v 1 fight which made Brienne look boss. Was half expecting Podrick to mimic another fight in the book to save Brienne but was probably for the best they didn't. Though how dumb are those two when Arya can escape their notice while so close together.