Will This New "Era Of Legitimacy" Bring More Violent Matches?

[PowerHouse]

Nobody said anyhting about adult content especially storyline wise. But there is no doubt if legitamacy is truly what the new thing is we are going to see more physical matches in the WWE. We already are seeing them with Ryback and Lord Tensai. We see how brutal Henry has been to CM Punk and Jericho smashing a bottle of whiskey over the back of CM Punks head isn't exactly childrens programming. The content is begining to push the envelope. I fail to see a deal with mattel breaking the WWE. Vince is going to have his share of viewers whether mattel likes the programming or not.

 

[Psyclone]

I'd be all for seeing the occaisional more violent match on WWE TV... I don't think we'll ever be back to the over the top era of the late 90's where there was a hardcore match followed by a tables match followed by a first blood match etc etc etc... I don't think it ever needs to go to that again... I do think though that if used sparingly it makes it that much more special... If you overuse it, it's meaning is lost (as we saw at the tail end of the attitude era... where good "matches" weren't enough, but you had to have the huge spot, or shit tons of blood and wrestlers were trying to outdo each other...)

Now with the blood I don't mind seeing blood occaisionally... I don't think it's needed but hey if it occurs im fine with it... I hate seeing a match stopped while they superglue the cut together or otherwise stem the bleeding (especially on a ppv match)... I think we're past that point now (hopefully), and perhaps we're at the point where it can be incorporated into only the main storylines (Again sparingly)... I'm not talking outright blading, but even some stiff shots (agreed upon beforehand) to the eyebrow area (the "hardway") can get some blood and in the right storyline could work... Again I'd use this only in the instances where it adds something to the storyline, and only where it makes sense... I'm not talking about lord tensai coming out and doing that to some jobber... I'm talking randy orton attacking daniel bryan (WHC) (Hypothetical) and getting some extra oomph for a program... I'm talking chris jericho getting the crap kicked out of him by CM Punk oomph... Only when needed..

 

[ilapierre]

It's funny, I look through these threads and it's always the poster who tries to sound the most concerned about concussions that convinces people of their credibility when really some of these guys are the biggest dumbasses. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I disagree with these certain posters or not take the issue seriously. But I just find people are too quick to take the easy little 'concussions are a big problem' route in explaining why WWE has sucked ass for years. I like the direction WWE is going right now and I don't feel like things like chair shots or blood are needed to make things any more entertaining. But..I do have a problem with some of the logic used by some posters in this thread.

Blood and sport go hand in hand. When you play a sport whether it's real like football or fake like wrestling, athletes are gonna bleed unless they're ballet dancers. I get that its important to cut down any unnecessary bleeding for the safety of everyone since wrestling is now labelled as 'sports entertainment'. But, why is it that there should never or rarely ever be any blood in a so-called sport or sports entertainment program about violence where you need to create the illusion that you would do whatever you can to beat the other into submission or pinfall. It would be like taking hits to the head out of UFC because they were getting way too dangerous and could cause permanent brain damage. It's just dumb, it's not believable. I'm not big on blood, never have been, but it was the trademark thing done by who many people consider the best wrestler of all time.

As for the chair shot argument, I read somewhere here that they won't come back because Benoit damaged his brain throughout his 15 year career and snapped and killed himself and his family because of it. Chair shots are not a regular thing anymore because of concussions. Benoit had a concussion. His brain was severely damaged. But that wasn't because someone hit him with a chair shot once. Benoit was an intense wrestler, his finishing move was a flying headbutt from the top rope. If anything, a career full of flying headbutts from the top rope is what caused Benoit's concussions and brain damage. That likely led to him snapping and killing himself and his family. Even still, concussions and brain damage don't cause everybody, barely anyone actually, to kill their families. What Benoit did is not regular behaviour from someone with brain damage. Lots of people without brain damage who've never taken a chair shot to the head kill themselves and their families out of rage, jealousy, or whatever reason. So this argument that chairshots will never be allowed because of Benoit is a bit 'over the top'. Chairshots will not be permitted most of the time because they can too easily lead to a concussion, which can too easily lead to brain damage, which can too easily lead to premature death. I'm much more against chairshot usage than i have been against 'cutting'. A chair shot is unnecessary and is just another way in a long list of thousands of ways wrestlers can develop brain damage. A career of taking stiff shots to the head with fists can cause brain damage. So do we get rid of punches or kicks to the head? Do we get rid of powerbombs and piledrivers? Do we get rid of anything happening outside the ring near the ringpost or guard rail? I mean c'mon folks. I know a chair is made out of steel and that can cause a lot of damage. But so can everything else I mentioned here. How far can this 'taking the violence out of wrestling' thing go?
You can't just go and change the very nature of wrestling and make it entertaining. Imagine if you took the fighting out of UFC or boxing? If you sign up for it, you have to expect some chance of brain damage. If you sign up for the navy, you have to know you have a chance of being killed in duty. If you play in the NHL, you have to know that you could get hit and concussed. If you are a daredevil stunt guy, you have to expect that you're life is in danger in order to create the illusion that you need to to be successful at what you do. So, to be a wrestler, you can't just take all the illusion out of it and make it something that only clean cut metrosexual-looking guys do.

Yeah it's not the 90s anymore but it's not about getting with the 'times' because the PG era is not a permanent reality but a passing fad that had more to do with Linda McMahon's senate run than anything. The shit wrestling we've had forcefed to us for 7 or 8 years in the 'PG' era has to die if anything has to die. We don't need extra sexual skits, or excessive blood or violent head shot spots like we had in the Monday night wars. We don't need chair shots to make stuff better and we don't need moves like the 'flying headbutt' because the move is ten times as dangerous as a carefully executed chair shot to the head. For wrestling to move forward and for the times to be better than the PG era, there needs to be some element of the 90s incorporated into the product. That element is the 'real' aspect, and to be real or appear real wrestling needs to be or appear 'more violent'. And that's what has been happening and that's why things have been a lot more fun to watch lately. Look it, music today will only be good if it has elements of what worked in the past combined with something new and relevant. You can hear the Beatles or Stones or Dylan to some extent in every decade of music that followed. What we've had with PG WWE is like the disco era of music. WWE PG era is like the Beegees of music. It came, it went and it will never come back like that again because it was a passing fad. There were no Beegee imitators and things went back to sounding good again like they had before the mid 70s crap. The PG rating and wrestling just don't go together, it's like watching a porno where the two stars do nothing more than dry hump. If today's whiny little wrestling smarks don't understand that, then they're the ones who are morons. Wrestling is suppose to be dominated by tough guys, it's suppose to have attitude, it's suppose to be about doing whatever it takes to win even if that's bleeding or a fucking headshot. It's not about spiking you're hair and acting like The Miz. It's not about crawling all over another oiled up man to please the homosexual audience. Wrestlers need to do whatever it takes to win and there does not need to be excessive measures taken to make it look as fake and girly as possible. So let's not get too carried away with the politically correct side of the argument and get all worried about the behind the scenes stuff wanker smarks concern themselves with. We are marks, we should care about the product we see and not about the measures taken to make the product safe that we speculate about but really have no clue about.

Oh and anyone who thinks Triple H really got fined by his father-in-law is crazy. I know that it was reported he was fined but who the hell really believes what gets reported. It'd be like WWE reporting that Vince tested for roids like every other wrestler and it was 'reported' he wasn't juicing up during his feud with Hulk Hogan or Shawn Michaels. But he obviously was juiced up and wasn't being tested like everyone else. I'd say Triple H wasn't even tested, look at how big he got! And let's say he did get fined. How much? $1000? They could say anything, Triple H is on the inside and can get away with whatever as his wife probably scripted in right in there. Whatever he was fined, it wouldn't even be a slap on the wrist.

 

[mikekinkade]

I hope there are more violent matches.

Low risk watered down matches aren't going to cut it anymore because they actually have fans believing that wrestlers hardly get injured (even though this isn't the case). The risk of injury is actually a very important draw to the fans. Fans don't want it to happen, but knowing injury is a very real possibility makes what they're watching feel more real. A more violent approach, coupled with the introduction of more worked injuries, will make it seem like the wrestling matches are more dangerous.

Vince needs to start introducing some elements of combat sports into the product:

More worked injuries

Worked medical suspensions from TKO/KO's. Already see hints of this with TKO finishes from Lord Tensai (can actually help give guys time off),

more frantic pace to submissions (when submissions are slapped on the opponent needs to be in more of a panic, can't use submissions as a prolonged rest period. Wrestlers need to be afraid of getting caught in an arm-bar, leg-lock etc. from fear of injury.)

 

[Psyclone]

I hope there are more violent matches.

Low risk watered down matches aren't going to cut it anymore because they actually have fans believing that wrestlers hardly get injured (even though this isn't the case). The risk of injury is actually a very important draw to the fans. Fans don't want it to happen, but knowing injury is a very real possibility makes what they're watching feel more real. A more violent approach, coupled with the introduction of more worked injuries, will make it seem like the wrestling matches are more dangerous.

Vince needs to start introducing some elements of combat sports into the product:

More worked injuries

Worked medical suspensions from TKO/KO's. Already see hints of this with TKO finishes from Lord Tensai (can actually help give guys time off),

more frantic pace to submissions (when submissions are slapped on the opponent needs to be in more of a panic, can't use submissions as a prolonged rest period. Wrestlers need to be afraid of getting caught in an arm-bar, leg-lock etc. from fear of injury.)

i disagree on worked injuries... I HATE WORKED INJURIES.... Just look at the recent worked injury of Zack Ryder... WHAT DID THAT ACCOMPLISH?!?!?!? Nothing!!!! it killed any crowd response at the time (and he had a lot) and basically buried him... Don't work injuries... just stupid..

I do agree on giving people time off though (however they go about it) just not a worked injury.

 

[Why Always Me]

How aboiut chair shots where the receiver puts his hand up to block part of the impact?

Rock, Austin, Triple H, HBK etc all did it and it makes sense.

When Cena was hitting Kane with steel steps Kane put his hand up, steel steps would surely carry more force than a steel chair!

 

[DirtyD79]

While I don't think we're going to see a return to the pier six brawls of the Attitude Era they do seem to be pushing the envelope a lot more. Stopping a match because somebody's bleeding kills the show to me. It interrupts the flow of the match. The key is using it sparingly as a way of selling the feud or storyline.

 

[mikekinkade]

i disagree on worked injuries... I HATE WORKED INJURIES.... Just look at the recent worked injury of Zack Ryder... WHAT DID THAT ACCOMPLISH?!?!?!? Nothing!!!! it killed any crowd response at the time (and he had a lot) and basically buried him... Don't work injuries... just stupid..

I do agree on giving people time off though (however they go about it) just not a worked injury.

When a wrestler takes a severe beating, especially from the hands of a monster, they can't just come out the following week and be fine. Ryder was getting beat up by Kane, and was working an injury. The issue was the execution. They should of had Ryder battle through the injury and win, or at least not look pathetic. The pushing of Ryder on a wheel chair off the stage was just stupid. But if they took a realistic approach, a worked injury would of actually helped put Ryder over even more.

Imagine Ryder defeating Kane on RAW in a 15 min main event, while working an injury and even blading in the match. Ryder getting his handed raised in victory, barely able to move, bandaged up and bleeding would of turned him into a top face.

 

[Brahma_Bull9]

This. Although I disagree with the blood comment.

WWE won't bring back blood and I don't know what it is with wrestling fans, whereby they can't wrap their heads around this thing called Hepetitas C. Not only are WWE under pressure from "Superstar" Billy Graham whose releasing a tell all book about the company from what I read, but he is also claiming that by inducting Abdullah The Butcher who infected some kid with it they're endorsing blading in professional wrestling. Wrestling doesn't need blading anymore, at least not WWE. Sure, let TNA do it and let Ring of Honor do it, but even they've cut back on the amount of blade jobs being done by performers because its became too dangerous and it makes the industry look bad.

Not saying I've never enjoyed a match with blood, it does create a lot of emotions and in some cases in the past was needed to tell the story, but they see their workers health as being more important than telling a story and the fans that don't understand this are morons.

On the subject of head shots with a steel chair, same as Ricky said. They'll never comeback for several reasons. One being Chris Benoit, two being Chris Benoit's brain, three being Chris Benoit killing his wife and son before murdering himself, four being the entire thing whereby taking a clean shot to the head with a genuine piece of steel can cause a concussion and five Chris Benoit.

Again, some wrestling fans need to get with the times. Blood, head shots; we're not in the 90's anymore, Attitude Era is dead and this shit isn't needed. There are wrestlers dying due to abuse through prescription pills based off them taking these head shots and putting themselves in such danger. Not to mention WWE has a fine for any wrestlers that perform head shots with a steel chair, Triple H struck Taker last year and both were fined, deservingly. Get with the program.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I don't see the issue with using it on select matches at PPV's. I get it is dangerous but it is wrestling, I know it is entertainment and not completely real but it's just something that has been in it for awhile now and we are accustomed too. It's weird but it really did make matches crazy... I don't know I guess what I'm saying is I don't see it as unfeasible to have it at a few random times here and there and just have the people involved take a blood test.

Also, was Brock supposed to go out there and punch Cena like that or was it a botch? I mean looking at from how the other punches went it looks like Brock fucked up lol... because those other punches weren't even close to landing and looked awful, but the fact that he nailed him with that one made it look realistic and well done.

 

[Sheamus' Suntan]

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I don't see the issue with using it on select matches at PPV's. I get it is dangerous but it is wrestling, I know it is entertainment and not completely real but it's just something that has been in it for awhile now and we are accustomed too. It's weird but it really did make matches crazy... I don't know I guess what I'm saying is I don't see it as unfeasible to have it at a few random times here and there and just have the people involved take a blood test.

Also, was Brock supposed to go out there and punch Cena like that or was it a botch? I mean looking at from how the other punches went it looks like Brock fucked up lol... because those other punches weren't even close to landing and looked awful, but the fact that he nailed him with that one made it look realistic and well done.

I agree with EVERYTHING Dragon Saga has to say on this. They learned way too much from one crazy fuck that has led them down this path; there's now no way they'll go through blade jobs or chair shots.

I agree with that the fact that we could easily see more guarded shots and from earlier, I like the idea of more worked injuries and TKO's so long as they're done in the right places and not overdone.

If im honest I dont think this is a new era whatsoever, we're still somewhere between reality and PG. The thing I think Brock MAY bring to WWE is the addition of MMA. Vince has gone on record saying he would like to bring more elements of MMA to WWE and this is a perfect way of doing so. I'd like to see the two of them hybrid at some stage.

As for the shot, yes it was a botch. Cena moved into the punch instead of away by accident as Brock went in too quick with the shot.

 

[zephyrs]

Blood is overrated, especially when it's overused (ie every PPV someone's bleeding).

WWE does need to put on better matches though. Last time I checked this was still pro wrestling, not kick, kick, punch, punch, repeat.

 

[Abhunter]

I dont see the problem in Chair Shots or Blading. You are a professional wrestler, you know what you are signing up for. As a former professional wrestler, if you are in anyway a smart worker, you know how to take a chairshot professionally without getting hurt. Blading wouldnt be a problem, as they do blood test's in the WWE

 

[Psyclone]

When a wrestler takes a severe beating, especially from the hands of a monster, they can't just come out the following week and be fine. Ryder was getting beat up by Kane, and was working an injury. The issue was the execution. They should of had Ryder battle through the injury and win, or at least not look pathetic. The pushing of Ryder on a wheel chair off the stage was just stupid. But if they took a realistic approach, a worked injury would of actually helped put Ryder over even more.

Imagine Ryder defeating Kane on RAW in a 15 min main event, while working an injury and even blading in the match. Ryder getting his handed raised in victory, barely able to move, bandaged up and bleeding would of turned him into a top face.

sure that would have worked.. however his worked injury had him in a wheelchair unable to do anything bit sit out raw's for weeks on end (and even had him kayfabe it through his internet show)... That was the part that I hated about it... I would agree that a worked injury is fine if he battles back and eeks out the win, but the point of my post was that his injury did absolutely nothing to the story but remove him from it.. hence the hate

 

[daddyJ_t]

im sorry this is ridiculus. chair shots to the head are a no-no, but jericho can break a "bottle" over cm punks head? thats fuckin stupid granted he all know it was a sugar bottle and actually smashed in jerichos hand before it even touched punk, but the point is, cant hit with chairs, but "glass" bottles of booze is? im all for blood and violence if done right, but not gratuitous

 

[Nate DaMac]

im sorry this is ridiculus. chair shots to the head are a no-no, but jericho can break a "bottle" over cm punks head? thats fuckin stupid granted he all know it was a sugar bottle and actually smashed in jerichos hand before it even touched punk, but the point is, cant hit with chairs, but "glass" bottles of booze is? im all for blood and violence if done right, but not gratuitous

You sort of answered your own question there, dummy. The bottle was fake. Any time they show someone getting hit in the head with an inanimate object, it is either fake or there is no actual connection. This is not the case with steel chairs and said chairs are known for creating a lot of head injuries.

Hitting someone in the head with a fake glass bottle poses no threat.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

i disagree on worked injuries... I HATE WORKED INJURIES.... Just look at the recent worked injury of Zack Ryder... WHAT DID THAT ACCOMPLISH?!?!?!? Nothing!!!! it killed any crowd response at the time (and he had a lot) and basically buried him... Don't work injuries... just stupid..

I do agree on giving people time off though (however they go about it) just not a worked injury.

No offense, but you just used an example of how not to work an injury.

The way they kept dragging him out week after week to get hurt further and further, then after finally keeping him off TV for a couple weeks, brought him back like nothing was wrong... that is how not to work an injury.

If they had kept Ryder off of live TV after first being 'injured', and then used him in recorded interviews to put over the seriousness of his injuries, then he could have come back bigger than before.

Worked injuries are fine. As with anything though... they're all in the execution.

 

[daddyJ_t]

You sort of answered your own question there, dummy. The bottle was fake. Any time they show someone getting hit in the head with an inanimate object, it is either fake or there is no actual connection. This is not the case with steel chairs and said chairs are known for creating a lot of head injuries.

Hitting someone in the head with a fake glass bottle poses no threat.

but heres the thing, they made a point to tell everybody that hhh got fined for the chairshot, i know and u know the bottle was fake, but we are pg remember, the kids that watch probably didnt know. they gonna be like why is hunter getting punished but jericho isnt. there is such things as botches and if somehow chris did botch that and really hit him, yeah its a soft bottle, but that shit can still hurt. i say if no chair head shots, then no weapons to the head.

 

[Nate DaMac]

but heres the thing, they made a point to tell everybody that hhh got fined for the chairshot, i know and u know the bottle was fake, but we are pg remember, the kids that watch probably didnt know. they gonna be like why is hunter getting punished but jericho isnt. there is such things as botches and if somehow chris did botch that and really hit him, yeah its a soft bottle, but that shit can still hurt. i say if no chair head shots, then no weapons to the head.

They didn't, "Make it a point to tell everyone" that they fined HHH and Taker, they posted it on the WWE corporate site. None of the little kids know that he was fined, hell, most of the casual adult fans probably have a clue.

The point still stands. The bottle Jericho was holding was so feeble that it broke before hitting Punk, and it wasn't even dangerous enough to leave a cut. This was no more dangerous than R-Truth hitting John Morrison or The Miz in the head with a water bottle. Do you want to ban water bottle shots to the head too?