Why has the IWC seemingly turned on Randy Orton?

[newteenforbb]

I will refrain from saying that the WWE Universe has but I don't think it is too soon to say that the majority of the IWC has soured on Randy Orton in the past few months. Once the audiences on RAW and PPV's begin to boo, I will say the Universe has done the same but for now, let's keep it to those on the net.

Prior to Orton winning the championship, when he was well into his "face" run (quotes because he isn't the official definition of a face), people were on his side like crazy. Many were high on his character and enjoying the RKO fest we were getting on RAW. Cue Night Of Champions, Hell In A Cell, all the RAW's in between, and now Bragging Rights. The tide has definitely turned. Folks on here, other boards and generally all around the net, fans are calling for a title change and declaring that Orton is now failing to excite them.

What happened? I find it impossible to believe that someone NOT a heel is incapable of capturing the attention of the IWC for a long period of time (see Daniel Bryan, Rey Mysterio, and The Undertaker for example). So, it can't be solely due to his character change.

This isn't a question geared toward Orton haters because as much as I would personally disagree with them, they have been haters all along and nothing will change that. This is basically for anyone who was a fan and isn't anymore or for those who don't care but think they have a good read on what is going on.

 

[ThatGuy99]

Well, I think it's a little too early to tell, but if the IWC has began to "sour" on Orton, it's probably because we've seen quite a lot of him lately; and he's almost always coming out on top. It probably reminds the IWC of Super-Cena.

 

[CarlSinclair]

Get over it I say. Orton is doing the same deal he was several months ago and several years ago.. if people are going to turn on him because he is 'always on top' then they are totally deranged.

Please see the runs of like Cena and HHH of the past 10+ years. Orton is interesting at least.. but I think he is better chasing the belt. Put the belt on Barrett and leave it there.

 

[ThatGuy99]

I agree with CarlSinclair, but hey, people turned on Cena and people turned on HHH.
But Orton is, in my point of view, waaaay more interesting when he's chasing the belt.

 

[johnbragg]

Fact of life in the IWC, the Internet as a whole, and communications in general.

The people who are pissed off make noise. The people who are happy are pretty quiet. (In the IWC, the happy people who make noise are reacting to haters).

So, six months ago, the cries echoed across the forums and blogs--"Turn Randy Face!" "Give Orton the ball!" "RKO4Champ"

That happened. Now, we start to hear the beginnings of "Orton sucks as a face" "Randy is boring" "Too much Viper."

I've never been a Randy Orton fan, but I accept that there are a lot of people who are. I don't think that the IWC as a whole has turned on Orton, although it probably will within a few months if he holds the title through the Rumble/wins the Rumble. The IWC bitches and moans. It doesn't always mean anything.

 

[Gavschenko]

why did people start to like orton anyway hes awful in the ring and on the mic and especailly backstage he yapps at everything he shouldnt even be champ atm imo and hes better when he doesnt have it

 

[Derf]

People win, and people lose. But it's when the WWE starts to push someone SO hard it's impossible for them to lose clean, that is when the ICW turns on them. That's what happened with Cena. He was hugely over when he first won the title, but eventually, his boring routine and obvious wins made him boring because we, as fans, felt we knew where it was going.

Now it's the same with Orton. He went face without changing his gimmick, and people loved him for it, but now he's being pushed past the moon, nothing can make him look weak "or else". Look at the Shooting StarKO from a few months ago. As awesome as that moment was, I think that is when people started to wonder "Ok, share some spotlight..." and when he won the title, they just snapped.

No matter who it is, the ICW will ALWAYS hate on a face World Champion. Fact.

 

[Theo Mays]

OMG has it down pact. The IWC hates on pretty much every face world champ. We went through it with Cena and now we are going through it with Orton. And when they aren't hating on a face world champ they are usually complaining about how the heel world champ is poorly booked. It's a never ending cycle. I've never been a huge Orton fan. He is over and I get it, but he is overrated in my mind and he has looked pretty unstoppable as the champ that making him lose clean is gonna be tough to do. Win or lose at Bragging Rights the IWC will find something to complain about the outcome.

I for one have no problems with Orton's title run, despite my lack of caring for him. It is early and I suspect it comes to an end at Bragging Rights and Orton will probably be deemed the favorite heading into the Royal Rumble come 2011. It is still early in the run, so giving it a chance is key, but the IWC is impatient and wants something new. Only time will tell.

 

[blackmetalbuick]

OMG has it down pact. The IWC hates on pretty much every face world champ. We went through it with Cena and now we are going through it with Orton. And when they aren't hating on a face world champ they are usually complaining about how the heel world champ is poorly booked. It's a never ending cycle.

Kind of insulting to say that anyone who isn't in to Orton right now is just following some pattern of established behavior instead of having a mind of their own and their own opinion.

Sure I come to WrestleZone but I hardly consider myself a member of this infamous "IWC" and I don't keep up with WWE 24/7 anymore. So I'm not part of this group who apparently automatically hate face champions, but I too am not into Orton lately. I said immediately after Night of Champions (which I attended in person) that Orton seemed like such an anti-climatic choice for that match. I would have rather seen Edge or Sheamus or anyone else in that match get the belt. I can't even remember who else was in it lol. But I remember seeing Orton win and celebrate got no reaction out of me. At the time, Orton was on a roll being in pursuit mode, going after the belt and dominating on RAW, but not quite getting the championship yet. People were eating it up. Sooo what's there to do with him once he wins the belt? Nothing. Celebrate for one night and that's it. No he shouldn't chase the belt endlessly just because it was entertaining on Raw, but I think it was too soon.

He's boring. It might not be his fault. I've said it in other threads already, he seems to get less mic time as a face. We're supposed to connect with him as a character just because he smirks at the camera after he wins? Also, with his comparisons to Stone Cold, the major missing component there is that he has no authority figure to rebel against. Stone Cold was partially great because of who he worked with. Orton is just out for himself, trying to win matches and win/retain the belt. He has no interesting feud or anything else going on.

So that's my opinion. I didn't automatically start hating him just because he's a face champion.

 

[newteenforbb]

I said immediately after Night of Champions (which I attended in person) that Orton seemed like such an anti-climatic choice for that match. I would have rather seen Edge or Sheamus or anyone else in that match get the belt. I can't even remember who else was in it lol. But I remember seeing Orton win and celebrate got no reaction out of me. At the time, Orton was on a roll being in pursuit mode, going after the belt and dominating on RAW, but not quite getting the championship yet. People were eating it up. Sooo what's there to do with him once he wins the belt? Nothing. Celebrate for one night and that's it. No he shouldn't chase the belt endlessly just because it was entertaining on Raw, but I think it was too soon.

This I find interesting. First, I too was at NOC and I, along with about 90% of the arena pretty much blew the roof off the place at the conclusion of the main event, but that's not really important. The more interesting point you made and others have already stated in this thread concerns Orton being more interesting chasing the title instead of holding it. Even if this is true, it begs the question of time?

Prior to NOC, he didn't hold the championship for a year. And you could only have someone chase for so long before it becomes boring- if only for the fact that if one person is chasing a title and coming up short that much, they probably should no longer be doing so. So, you state that he shouldn't chase the belt endlessly but this was too soon. Considering his popularity at the moment, how long would have had him chase before getting it? All the way though Mania in '11?

Folks will probably get what they want tonight though. Once Barrett is champ and the whole CeNexus angle continues to play out, Orton will have to either play second fiddle to that and move on to something else. That should please people. Until the threads start popping up about how he is being booked badly. And the cycle repeats...

 

[Rammsteinerteen]

IMO, Randy Orton is really boring right now. All I see him do is his clothesline, punt, rko, backbreaker, and ddt. Other wise, all he does is stomp. Really Orton? Stomps? I used to love Randy Orton. His legend killer gimmick made him so cocky. He was great on the mic, it was easy. Now this viper gimmick made him so boring. He seems to mess up on the mic a lot more. He does his moves much more slowly. He doesn't do his cross body, or that shoulder slam/neckbreaker thing which looked cool. He also eliminated all of his other quick moves. But now, he's a lot like Cena. Except for that gimmick, it's the opposite. Randy Orton should be a heel, honestly. It's not much better, but at least he's more interesting. But with the talks that John Cena is turning heel soon, I think Randy Orton will stay a face for awhile. But please don't judge this, this is all in my opinion.

 

[Scottie Rock]

I watched wrestling from 1991 to about 2003, I just got back into it as of this year (Wrestlemania) I never liked Sheamus, MVP, Dolph Ziggler or Randy Orton. Sheamus & MVP have grown on me but Ziggler and Orton have not. Since this thread is about Orton I'll say this: I dont like his silly face pulling, I don't like his entrance, I don't like his wrestling style, I dont like his punching the floor temper tantrums and I don't like his finisher. To me it doesn't look painfull, I can only compare it to the stunner which IMO looks more realistic due to the chin being driven into the shoulder. I still can't see where the impact is supposed to be with the RKO. I think he's Randy Borton. Sorry

 

[FightOwensFight]

IMO, Randy Orton is really boring right now. All I see him do is his clothesline, punt, rko, backbreaker, and ddt. Other wise, all he does is stomp. Really Orton? Stomps? I used to love Randy Orton. His legend killer gimmick made him so cocky. He was great on the mic, it was easy. Now this viper gimmick made him so boring. He seems to mess up on the mic a lot more. He does his moves much more slowly. He doesn't do his cross body, or that shoulder slam/neckbreaker thing which looked cool. He also eliminated all of his other quick moves. But now, he's a lot like Cena. Except for that gimmick, it's the opposite. Randy Orton should be a heel, honestly. It's not much better, but at least he's more interesting. But with the talks that John Cena is turning heel soon, I think Randy Orton will stay a face for awhile. But please don't judge this, this is all in my opinion.

I feel the same way, and I am a big Orton fan. I just feel the Viper gimmick is getting old. Watching him on Monday he almost did some fancy spin/fall thing into his mat-slamming frenzy. He is becoming a caricature of his legend killer/violent disorder persona. He seems to just be going through the motions right now.

 

[Mantis]

I like Orton, and always have, but I have to admit that his matches are starting to look like Cena's. He takes a beating for a while, then when he finds an opening, it's the same barrage of clothesline/clothesline/scoopslam/ddt/etc/rko. I enjoy these moves, but I don't like how predictably he uses them. It makes the opponents look stupid for falling for it each time. I also wish that he'd inject some more personality into his character. Although I appreciate that he wanted to do something different other than the typical arrogant heel, he's become robotic now. I'd like a little bit of Legend Killer mixed in with the Viper.

 

[Tougie]

Orton was one of my favorite wrestlers, now it people will probably claim "Ah you just like to root for the heel." True? Maybe. But I cant stand Orton at this point for two reasons.

1. The constant comparasions to Stone Cold. He will never be Stone Cold and if anything thats crapping on Orton because Orton is his own character.

2. The fact WWE is basically pushing Orton as the new Stone Cold. Very watered down, but the unpredicable badass aspect is still the same.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

If you really wanting to know, it's because he's fulfilling a cena-esque charcter now, that is the ONLY reason. His gimmick is good, his in-ring is good, his selling is good, his entrance is good, his mic work is so-so. And im being harsh, some of those categories are more than good. People just don't understand the PG era, its about heroes and villains and cena is a light hero and taker and now orton are dark heroes, and sheamus etc.. are bad guys. Some guys won't ever get over that the show is now catered for kids and randy is just continuing a superhero comic book style heroic figure because cena isn't, its that simple. Don't expect to see any character development any time soon, cena was the same for years, but at least orton has a more entertaining gimmick.

 

[bloewaters]

Do you really want to know why the majority of the IWC is turning against Orton.... Its because he is a FACE. What are the majority of the threads on here? lets turn ______. Heel. The IWC doesn't seem to like it when someone is a face (few exceptions)

Examples: Turn JOMO heel! it will make him more entertaining!
Turn Cena Heel
Turn HHH heel.
it always seems to be all about turning people heel so when someone is face the IWC gets up in arms. well here is the deal. YOU CAN"T HAVE A ROSTER FULL OF HEELS!

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I agree with johnbragg on this. It's not the entire IWC of course, but it's enough to make one think it's the whole bunch. This time last year, the boards were filled with threads saying Orton should be turned face because he was stale as a heel or that Orton should be given a face run as champion or that Orton would make a good tweener. It's happened and Orton probably gets as much hate from the IWC as he ever has. It's nothing new.

Randy Orton, from my perspective, has never been a darling of the internet fans. Like a lot of top WWE wrestlers, the IWC hasn't embraced Orton as they have Bryan Danielson or AJ Styles or Christopher Daniels. A lot of the hate stems from what we hear of Orton conducting himself in his personal life or behind the scenes. Based on what you might read online about Orton from time to time, the guy sounds like a world class prick. Even if he is, the man's still a great pro wrestler.

If it's not Orton, it'll be Cena. If it's not Cena, it'll be Sheamus. If it's not Sheamus, it'll be Triple H or Drew McIntyre or Wade Barrett or The Miz. If Daniel Bryan ever reaches main event status and even goes on to with a World Championship, I won't be at all surprised if there's an internet backlash and the IWC turns on him like a pack of rabid hyenas.

 

[zackattack]

No i dont think the IWC has soured on Orton. A lot of ppl still like him and he gets sone of the loudest cheers ever. People are saying he's always going over and we are seeing too much of him, well no shit hes the wwe champ. You look at before he was champ when was the last time he won a ppv match clean and that was WrestleMania. I also think it might have something to do with him being a face. They turned him face in 04 after people were starting to cheer him and it flopped big time they tried it again and while he is mad over the older fans aren't taken to him because he just doesn't have that same spark he does when hes a heel.

 

[ncpowell]

Hahaha, ok...I'm sorry, but I HAVE to reply to this thread, because it may be the one to make me not read message boards on here anymore.

So, I've been reading wrestlezone for almost five years, and only recently wanted to respond to message boards. Through reading message boards, I've noticed some trends. And this exact thread just proves these trends. I've never ever ever been a John Cena fan. Hated him long before 2005. So it's a moot point for me, but Randy Orton has been one of my favorite wrestlers since his beginning with Evolution. So watching him evolve from a young turk to the youngest champion in the history of the WWE, the baby face, a more polished Legend Killer, the Viper (heel), and now the Viper (face) has been awesome. Randy Orton is good. Point blank. John Cena does what is needed of him. But Randy Orton is good in a wrestling market where you don't necessarily have to be anymore. He's got good (sometimes over-the-top) promos, good in-ring skills, just overall good. And it makes me laugh that just a little less than a year ago it was the IWC tug of war to determine who was currently better, Chris Jericho or Randy Orton. And now you're trying to tell me that Randy Orton isn't wanted by the IWC anymore? Why not? Because he's the classic neutral guy leaning toward babyface? Because the IWC can't like anyone who isn't booed on live television?

There's truly no real reason for the IWC to turn on Randy Orton. Simply? The trend is that the IWC as a whole will never appreciate anything. Months ago, Randy Orton was the talk of the IWC. Now that he's getting super attention (as a neutral leaning towards babyface), he's now disowned. Rubbish.

I think I enjoy Mark Maddens articles the most because it's straight and to the point. If WWE took any of the IWC's advice, they'd bomb in ratings because nothing would please the IWC. Instead, the IWC makes excuses. "He reminds us of super cena", "theres too much of him"...

Whine. Whine. Whine.

 

[rbacica]

the reason why the iwc has soured on orton as champ is because the majority of the IWC are fucking idiots.....After all the majority of the IWC is calling for miz to become champ (anyone who supports this fucking queer is definitely an idiot) and awhile back during Edge's big heel run he was the hero for most of the IWC...If that doesnt say it all then i dont know what does....most of the iwc dont know their head from their ass -- Y else would they support the miz and Y else would the IWC bitch everytime they get what they want....iwc wanted orton as champ and now they're bitchin bout it...and this isnt the first time this has happened

 

[i_against_i]

I just think he's starting to pander to the audience too much. His little freakout leading into the finish is so ridiculous now. It's not that he's on top now, it's that he had a cool, intimidating, creepy gimmick and turned it into an over-the-top cartoonish character.

I love the Viper gimmick when he's silent, slow, and just snaps into action. The turning point for me was Night of Champions when he won the title and starts smiling and nodding his head and celebrating. That's not his character and it just made him look cheesy.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Its got nothing to do with the fact that Orton is a face. The IWC has always blown hot and cold regarding Orton. On the face of it Orton has everything: a good look, great athletic abiity, good promo skills. But when he performs its a pretty different story. Can anyone tell me what has been Orton's greatest match? Yeah its his match against Foley at Backlash 2004. With all due respect to him there's only one thing that I think of when I think of Orton :all sizzle and no steak.


That proverb probably describes everything that Oron has done so far. People were interested in his feud with HHH but the match at the end of it was atrocious. Same deal here. People were interested in his badass character but again his matches leave much to be desired. If I were to sum up his entire face run the only moments that would stick out would be his RKO's to Bourne and Morrison. No memorable feuds or matches whatsoever.

Orton has always flattered only to decieve and its no different today

 

[HBKevin]

Because he's boring. He doesn't have a character anymore; he doesn't give promos except once in a blue moon. His entire gimmick is built around his finisher. Let him talk again, give him some sort of angle besides he hears voices in his head and wants to hurt everyone. Then the IWC will be ok with him again.

 

[newteenforbb]

Its got nothing to do with the fact that Orton is a face. The IWC has always blown hot and cold regarding Orton. On the face of it Orton has everything: a good look, great athletic abiity, good promo skills. But when he performs its a pretty different story. Can anyone tell me what has been Orton's greatest match? Yeah its his match against Foley at Backlash 2004. With all due respect to him there's only one thing that I think of when I think of Orton :all sizzle and no steak.


That proverb probably describes everything that Oron has done so far. People were interested in his feud with HHH but the match at the end of it was atrocious. Same deal here. People were interested in his badass character but again his matches leave much to be desired. If I were to sum up his entire face run the only moments that would stick out would be his RKO's to Bourne and Morrison. No memorable feuds or matches whatsoever.

Orton has always flattered only to decieve and its no different today

Wow. I couldn't possibly disagree with this than any more fervor. There is a reason why many in the wrestling business have called Orton the best thing going today. Folks like Kurt Angle, Heyman, Bret Hart have all called him out. And yes, I realize they are not calling him out as being the best technical wrestler (far from) but speaking more about the entire package. What is takes, pretty much, to be a star in this business. And he has many great matches besides Foley at Backlash. When his DVD comes out in early 2011, perhaps people will see that. I do understand that his wrestling style is not for everyone. It's a style that in today's wrestling world, is actually looked down on. But that's fine. Variety is the spice of life.