Why did the WWE sabotage DB's push?

[Big Nick Dudley]

you dont even know the definition of what "drawing money" means if you don't think he draws money..He's their biggest draw other than Punk and Cena..it's those three and then there's everybody else...how come people can't see this?
Do you see the shirts in the audience? that's drawing money. The people that bring signs with his likeness on it, that's drawing money because they paid a ticket to see him. PPV's mean jack now because nobody is bringing the buyrates...Survivor Series was poorly recieved and Bryan didn't even headline that show, so nobody is bringing in the ppv numbers unless you're a part timer...so tell me, what is your definition of "drawing money"? if you tell me ppv buyrates then I just explained to you how that argument is invalid....They are even creating the WWE Network because people dont' buy ppv's anymore. You get most of the ppvs free after you pay a small monthly fee for the network....They're doing that because nobody buys their ppvs, and they need to make profit off of them somehow. The big ones like Royal Rumble, WM and Summerslam won't be free though. Those are full price.
Only Cena, Punk and Bryan draw money in that company right now. Nobody else is on that level, so when you keep arguing about Bryan's drawing ability you're lying to yourself. He does very well for that company. The shows aren't interesting without him, he has done a lot for that company and has made it exciting again. Nobody can even get legitimate heel heat unless they put their hands on him. Without him, nobody would get a reaction. When people save him the crowd goes wild.

WWE can't sell PPV's because top talent outside of Cena (and part time guys) aren't drawing in new fans, nor bringing back old ones. It's not complicated when you can think past your own preference.

As I said, it's possible DB's drawing. We'll know the answer prior to WrestleMania. If he's not, he won't headline. If he isn't drawing money, his place on the card will reflect that.

I won't be shocked when he ends up in the middle of the card, where most of the great workers, awful talkers find themselves.

He was never replacing Cena. People need to get over that.

 

[DietPepsiRocks]

Looks like they're listening to the fans finally. DB has a good week on TV this week. Can't wait for the confrontation with HBK on Raw and Smackdown this Friday for obvious reasons. He's still heavily featured on TV, the WWE seems to be between a rock and a hard place with him. It looks like they regret taking him out of the main event...So they have Wyatt mention "the machine" as a way to tie him back into the Authority storyline because they're trying to make up their minds if they should bring him back in or not. They might as well, the fans want it clearly. Hopefully they realize they made a mistake with his booking.
IF DB ends up facing HBK at Mania, then I think its crystal clear what they think of him...he'd be facing a legend for crying out loud AT MANIA....hopefully this Monday those seeds are planted.
*oh and he's not an awful talker, someone hasn't listened to Stone Cold's podcast yet! give it a listen, the dude has personality.....you're just going off what he's scripted to say...if you give him a mic and tell him to talk without a script he'll knock your socks off...

 

[Chococat]

Looks like they're listening to the fans finally. DB has a good week on TV this week. Can't wait for the confrontation with HBK on Raw and Smackdown this Friday for obvious reasons. He's still heavily featured on TV, the WWE seems to be between a rock and a hard place with him. It looks like they regret taking him out of the main event...So they have Wyatt mention "the machine" as a way to tie him back into the Authority storyline because they're trying to make up their minds if they should bring him back in or not. They might as well, the fans want it clearly. Hopefully they realize they made a mistake with his booking.
IF DB ends up facing HBK at Mania, then I think its crystal clear what they think of him...he'd be facing a legend for crying out loud AT MANIA....hopefully this Monday those seeds are planted.
*oh and he's not an awful talker, someone hasn't listened to Stone Cold's podcast yet! give it a listen, the dude has personality.....you're just going off what he's scripted to say...if you give him a mic and tell him to talk without a script he'll knock your socks off...

Looks like they will continue with HBK vs Bryan. Are you happy now? Probably not, probably gonna cry when HBK kicks out of the flying knee or if HBK hits the SCM one time and pins Bryan

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Looks like they're listening to the fans finally. DB has a good week on TV this week. Can't wait for the confrontation with HBK on Raw and Smackdown this Friday for obvious reasons. He's still heavily featured on TV, the WWE seems to be between a rock and a hard place with him. It looks like they regret taking him out of the main event...So they have Wyatt mention "the machine" as a way to tie him back into the Authority storyline because they're trying to make up their minds if they should bring him back in or not. They might as well, the fans want it clearly. Hopefully they realize they made a mistake with his booking.
IF DB ends up facing HBK at Mania, then I think its crystal clear what they think of him...he'd be facing a legend for crying out loud AT MANIA....hopefully this Monday those seeds are planted.
*oh and he's not an awful talker, someone hasn't listened to Stone Cold's podcast yet! give it a listen, the dude has personality.....you're just going off what he's scripted to say...if you give him a mic and tell him to talk without a script he'll knock your socks off...

In this thread alone which is still very new you've gone from saying DB's been sabotaged, to saying they had no plans for him yet at WM, to saying that they are turning him heel, to saying they purposely left him off SD, to saying he had a good week on TV after just one Raw, to saying he's still heavily featured on TV, to saying that he may face HBK at Mania.

I think you may just be a little reactionary, no?

DB is fine, he's not John Cena, but he's fine. He's also a grown man who can fight his own battles. I don't think you need to worry so much about him. If anyone needs your help it's Wade Barrett. That guy is screwed.

*plus being good on a radio show and having personality is not the same things as having good mic skills.

 

[DietPepsiRocks]

i said he had a good week on TV because he opened Smackdown and restarted his feud with Orton. he's back in the Authority storyline

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Seriously though, if they have Bryan out of the shows for a few weeks I won't notice his absence at all. Only personalities that I would notice missing for a long period of time are Cena and Michael Cole.

When n=1 you have made a terrible case for your argument. Spewing opinion is great and all but we need to elevate our arguments a little bit.

DB was and is over. You guys can't have a guy chase forever or it gets burnt out, you can't have an underdog with the strap forever or....he's not an underdog.

 

[laodaron]

When n=1 you have made a terrible case for your argument. Spewing opinion is great and all but we need to elevate our arguments a little bit.

DB was and is over. You guys can't have a guy chase forever or it gets burnt out, you can't have an underdog with the strap forever or....he's not an underdog.

He was flash in the pan. Accidental. Incidental. They knew that Cena was heading out, and they needed to throw someone in there as a face for a few months. He was that person. However, he was completely artificial. You want to see organic? That's Cena. You want to see artificial? That's DB. It's not that he isn't good, it's that he's not believable. Only as a midcarder against another indy spot monkey is he worth watching, and that's only as a gimmick. DB isn't sabotaged, he's just being booked where he should be booked.

 

[DietPepsiRocks]

how is DB not organic? and what about Cena is organic? the guy gets booed all the time unless they're piped in cheers on Smackdown...so how is Cena organic? he was chosen by Vince and he's a manufactured face of the company. he's never been the most popular on the roster. It was all forced. Nothing about DB is forced. if he isn't organic, then why do people cheer Bryan's name when he isn't even out in the ring? nice job trolling, but stay under your bridge.

 

[CyberPunk]

He was flash in the pan. Accidental. Incidental. They knew that Cena was heading out, and they needed to throw someone in there as a face for a few months. He was that person. However, he was completely artificial. You want to see organic? That's Cena. You want to see artificial? That's DB. It's not that he isn't good, it's that he's not believable. Only as a midcarder against another indy spot monkey is he worth watching, and that's only as a gimmick. DB isn't sabotaged, he's just being booked where he should be booked.

I get that you don't like Daniel Bryan. I don't know if Cena is your favorite superstar. But I don't think you've been watching the show lately, are you? You know what is flash in the pan? Zack Ryder. If someone draws great reactions over time, no matter where you put him on the card, that's organic. DB was put in one of the lamest comedy tag teams with Kane, but not only did they make it work (yes, credit to Kane as well), they made it one of the most successful acts on WWE TV. He is the everyday man to whom crowd relates. I respect your right to state your opinion, but you and I both know that booking decisions are something we know nothing about.

To the topic, I don't think his push is sabotaged. Authority story is till on, Big Show is out of the title picture and title unification (if happens) is somewhere round the corner. If Bryan became champion now, booking for Wrestlemania season may have become difficult. I have no idea what's going to happen next. But Bryan is not completely out. They might be trying to save his big title win for a bigger occasion may be. At this time, it's difficult to tell. I'd rather wait for this story to play out further.

 

[Alastor]

When n=1 you have made a terrible case for your argument. Spewing opinion is great and all but we need to elevate our arguments a little bit.

DB was and is over. You guys can't have a guy chase forever or it gets burnt out, you can't have an underdog with the strap forever or....he's not an underdog.

He wasn't chasing the belt forever, he got it. The whole point isn't whether the angle gets burnt out. The point is DB being boring and bland once the chase is over. Why risk that being exposed when DB and his chants are mad over in live arenas?

He got over because of WWE playing with the marks by creating this illusion that he is held back. Nobody being held back gets to main event PPVs with the two alphas of the WWE.

 

[Sweettre15]

Now I'm going to reserve saying he was completely sabotaged until I see what they do at Mania season...Nonetheless I think jerking fans around for 4 PPVs straight just to have Bryan lose when the audience wanted to see him win the belt is stupid.

Now as for the whole "He'd no longer be the underdog" rhetoric, This is silly IMO. If they keep putting obstacles in his way then he'll still be an underdog because then you can now make it about whether or not he can STAY champion with The Authority still standing in his way. If he overcomes Orton then throw more challenges his way.

Put him up against Mark Henry whom he had history with onscreen and play it off as a David vs Goliath story.

Put him against Sheamus whom beat Bryan in 18 secs at Mania and beat him again at Extreme Rules in a 2/3 Falls Match and Bryan only beat once with a schoolboy pin on Raw.

Throw challenges his way and he'd sustain that heat especially since it's not like he loses on a constant basis but fans STILL love him.

It all would depend on who you book against him and how it's written.

 

[DietPepsiRocks]

They lost soooo much money by not at least giving him the belt for a month....He would have sold more merchandise if you did that. Instead, he's dropped and moved on to something else and the fans don't care about who replaced him. Okay sure Triple H and Vince didn't want him representing their company as the champ, but you still could have given the fans a bone for at least three weeks to a month....that's the thing that I don't get. He's a better performer than half the roster and they think Miz deserves to hold the title longer? that's a slap in the face.

 

[Chococat]

They lost soooo much money by not at least giving him the belt for a month....He would have sold more merchandise if you did that. Instead, he's dropped and moved on to something else and the fans don't care about who replaced him. Okay sure Triple H and Vince didn't want him representing their company as the champ, but you still could have given the fans a bone for at least three weeks to a month....that's the thing that I don't get. He's a better performer than half the roster and they think Miz deserves to hold the title longer? that's a slap in the face.

How do you know if they lost any money? Apparently they lost money with Daniel Bryan in the main event.

Give the fans what they want? They pushed Ryder, nothing happened. they gave Ziggler the WHC again, nothing happened.

It's pretty much a known fact that Miz was rewarded the belt for his hard work outside the ring with all the promotion work he used to do nonstop.

Just accept the fact that the only reason Daniel was pushed was because Cena was injured and they needed a filler champ until he returned.

 

[DietPepsiRocks]

they lost money with him in the main event? okay pal you're losing it! they just added tons of merchandise to his character on wwe.com
when they do that, it usually means that you're selling tons of it..so how are they losing money? it turns out they lost tons of money with the Big Show in his spot and right now Cena and Orton is losing interest. did you see those ratings? that doesn't look good to the shareholders who want to give them that huge tv deal does it? DB, Punk, and Cena are the only ones making money right now amongst the full timers....You dont know what you're talking about. so tell me, how is it DB's fault? i'm waiting!

 

[Mark Henry's Beard]

Because the WWE is a business ran by individuals who pay more attention to the stock of their wrestlers and crowd reactions better than anyone sitting by a computer who continuously bitches that they think their favorites aren't getting the good end of the deal when in reality Daniel Bryan is bigger than ever and doesn't need the WWE Championship to elicit a response from the crowd.

That was one sentence. Holy shit.

But yeah, Daniel Bryan is a megastar and doesn't have to be in the Main Event for anyone to realize that.

So, the booker man is all knowing and never wrong? Give me a fucking break with that shit. I bet your posts would have been fun to read when WCW was around. Believe it or not, even the creative geniuses that brought you Katie Vick, Gene Snitsky, and "ECW" can be wrong.

They fucked up the Bryan angle, plain and simple. I actually think the biggest reason he lost overness wasn't because of the supposed burial of him by the Authority, though that certainly didn't help matters. It was the devolution of his character to generic white meat babyface. It didn't work anymore in 1995 and it damn sure doesn't work now. And please no one point out Cena, because I'm pretty sure the goal isn't to have 50% of the arena absolutely hate Bryan's fucking guts. But I digress, what hurt Bryan more: being verbally buried by the Authority or interrupting them by coming out smiling like a jackass? It's like he just sat backstage watching them tear him down and then finally thought of something clever to say.

So, WHY did they sabotage Bryan's push? Because they have no fucking clue how to build up a babyface. They haven't done it successfully in at least a decade. I'm not sure there was any malice intended towards Bryan. When the time came to finally put the belt in him, the fire was merely embers. As hot as Bryan was in August, it was not the same in October. And I think that has more to do with his character during the angle than anything else. People want different. It's one of the reasons Bryan got so over to begin with. But, then he became the same as all the rest. A tiny Sheamus with no accent.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

They fucked up the Bryan angle, plain and simple. I actually think the biggest reason he lost overness wasn't because of the supposed burial of him by the Authority, though that certainly didn't help matters. It was the devolution of his character to generic white meat babyface.

There's certainly something to this. I can easily say I enjoyed DB's anger issued, neurotic, chip on his shoulder self more than the guy who believes in himself and acknowledges the fans' belief in him. I miss the DB that didn't say much of any merit and didn't handle anything well. He entertained me. However, I'm not sure if that DB represents himself well for the company and bottom line at or near the top of the card as a face.

Maybe his mixing with The Wyatt's will give him some of that back. The change in persona was certainly not in order to sabotage DB. It was probably just either poor judgement or beyond the scope of what we understand as Tuesday morning bookers.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

So, the booker man is all knowing and never wrong? Give me a fucking break with that shit. I bet your posts would have been fun to read when WCW was around. Believe it or not, even the creative geniuses that brought you Katie Vick, Gene Snitsky, and "ECW" can be wrong.

My point, which you failed to grasp, was not that the writers are flawless, but that Daniel Bryan wasn't "sabotaged" in any way, shape or form. He wasn't the right person and doesn't sell half as well as many of his followers think he does. And since very few here know what it even looks like behind the scenes working with these people, there isn't much of a leg for anyone to stand on when it comes to criticizing booking.

And of course they get it wrong. So is the IWC's belief that if someone isn't on top, they're buried. Putting Bryan's depush along the same lines as Katie Vick and ECW is just plain ******ed.

They fucked up the Bryan angle, plain and simple. I actually think the biggest reason he lost overness wasn't because of the supposed burial of him by the Authority, though that certainly didn't help matters. It was the devolution of his character to generic white meat babyface. It didn't work anymore in 1995 and it damn sure doesn't work now. And please no one point out Cena, because I'm pretty sure the goal isn't to have 50% of the arena absolutely hate Bryan's fucking guts. But I digress, what hurt Bryan more: being verbally buried by the Authority or interrupting them by coming out smiling like a jackass? It's like he just sat backstage watching them tear him down and then finally thought of something clever to say.

This is going to hurt feelings and cause anarchy, but he didn't lose "overness", he wasn't buried, and he sure as hell hasn't turned generic. He's been that since day one. He still gets one of the loudest pops of the night, is featured in one of the biggest feuds in the WWE right now with The Shield/The Wyatt Family, and he's played the exact same character he has always been as a face.

What's with people believing if Bryan isn't WWE champion than he's been sabotaged? What if this whole angle wasn't about Daniel Bryan at all, but the build up for The Authority being a key heel faction??

So, WHY did they sabotage Bryan's push?

So not being WWE Champion now means sabotage? I bet you were fun when Austin went for the tag team belts, or Shawn Michaels for that matter.

Because they have no fucking clue how to build up a babyface. They haven't done it successfully in at least a decade. I'm not sure there was any malice intended towards Bryan. When the time came to finally put the belt in him, the fire was merely embers. As hot as Bryan was in August, it was not the same in October. And I think that has more to do with his character during the angle than anything else. People want different. It's one of the reasons Bryan got so over to begin with. But, then he became the same as all the rest. A tiny Sheamus with no accent.

Does anyone truly believe Bryan should have went over Orton? That the budding Authority that was H and Steph shouldn't have risen to power at all and had to deal with Bryan (which means he'd be screwed again, in case people don't know what heels do)?

This whole thread sounds like the whining of a fan not seeing their favorite superstar on top. Anyone can see Bryan gets a big reaction. Anyone can see he will get his chance and that they are slowly building him up because the pay per views he did headline did terribly when it came to buyrate.

But yeah, the company that keeps him featured in storylines with CM Punk sabotaged him. Okay.

 

[Chococat]

they lost money with him in the main event? okay pal you're losing it! they just added tons of merchandise to his character on wwe.com
when they do that, it usually means that you're selling tons of it..so how are they losing money? it turns out they lost tons of money with the Big Show in his spot and right now Cena and Orton is losing interest. did you see those ratings? that doesn't look good to the shareholders who want to give them that huge tv deal does it? DB, Punk, and Cena are the only ones making money right now amongst the full timers....You dont know what you're talking about. so tell me, how is it DB's fault? i'm waiting!

You really shouldn't talk about ratings or stocks if you have no concept of how they work. I'm telling you now. 3 ratings from the entire year don't mean shit. Just quit while you're ahead

Are you fucking serious about ONLY punk, db, and cena bringing in money? Pretty sure Dolph, Santino, Sin Cara, Orton, Big Show, Sheamus, Ryder all bring a pretty penny.

I never said anything was Bryan's fault. I said the only reason he was pushed is because Cena was injured and they needed a filler champ. How hard is this to understand

 

[Mark Henry's Beard]

My point, which you failed to grasp, was not that the writers are flawless, but that Daniel Bryan wasn't "sabotaged" in any way, shape or form. He wasn't the right person and doesn't sell half as well as many of his followers think he does. And since very few here know what it even looks like behind the scenes working with these people, there isn't much of a leg for anyone to stand on when it comes to criticizing booking.

Well, you really failed pretty epically on making that point, because it came across as apologist drivel.

And of course they get it wrong. So is the IWC's belief that if someone isn't on top, they're buried. Putting Bryan's depush along the same lines as Katie Vick and ECW is just plain ******ed.

I was illustrating the point that the logic you presented in your post was ridiculous. Because I'm here sitting at a computer, it's obvious that the same people that came up with these ridiculous angles are right and I am wrong. Basically, you worded it as such that ANY criticism of booking is blasphemy, as the guys in charge of creative certainly know more than Joe Wrestling Fan in St. Paul, Minnesota.

This is going to hurt feelings and cause anarchy, but he didn't lose "overness", he wasn't buried, and he sure as hell hasn't turned generic. He's been that since day one. He still gets one of the loudest pops of the night, is featured in one of the biggest feuds in the WWE right now with The Shield/The Wyatt Family, and he's played the exact same character he has always been as a face.

Ah, there we go. The truth comes out. You just don't like Daniel Bryan. I'm not gonna pretend like I'm some huge Bryan mark. I'm not. But, I can certainly recognize when they screw the pooch with an angle. So, tell me, was it their plan all along to try to transfer Bryan's momentum over to the Big Show? Because that's what they ended up trying to do, and it predictably failed because the fans WANTED BRYAN. It's not all that surprising that ratings started going in the shitter once the WWE decided that THEY knew what was "best for business" and stopped listening to the vocal contingent that they SOLD THEIR BUSINESS TO. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin doesn't happen today. Because all the WWF saw in him was the fucking Ringmaster. New character that's getting massively over with fans? Who gives a shit? That wasn't our plan. Why would a company change its plans based on what its consumers want? How ludicrous.

What's with people believing if Bryan isn't WWE champion than he's been sabotaged? What if this whole angle wasn't about Daniel Bryan at all, but the build up for The Authority being a key heel faction??

What exactly is the Authority doing lately? Presiding over contract signings? Good angle to set that up.

So not being WWE Champion now means sabotage? I bet you were fun when Austin went for the tag team belts, or Shawn Michaels for that matter.

They have no idea how to build a top face anymore. That's what it comes down to. The only way they try to get faces over is by having them smile and tell corny jokes and then play Superman on the heels. Daniel Bryan got over, MASSIVELY FUCKING OVER, as a heel, and then as a tweener. The crowd was fucking dying for him to chant "YES" along with them for a fucking year and he would just "NO" them to death. The moment when he actually embraced them and started chanting "YES" back to them SHOULD HAVE been a huge moment for his character. But, it wasn't, because he just suddenly started YESing again. And then after he got screwed at SummerSlam, he was just like every other fucking face they've tried to push in the last five years. Come out and smile, crack a joke, kiss the fans' asses. THAT'S NOT WHAT FUCKING GOT HIM OVER IN THE FIRST PLACE. And they wonder why people don't buy the ones they try to push as major faces. Because they strip all their previously likable qualities away, the same qualities that got them over in the fucking first place, and then wonder why they don't draw on top. Has to be their fault, not ours. Oh no, we came up with the Rey/Eddie/Dominic. We know what the fuck we're doing!

Does anyone truly believe Bryan should have went over Orton? That the budding Authority that was H and Steph shouldn't have risen to power at all and had to deal with Bryan (which means he'd be screwed again, in case people don't know what heels do)?

This whole thread sounds like the whining of a fan not seeing their favorite superstar on top. Anyone can see Bryan gets a big reaction. Anyone can see he will get his chance and that they are slowly building him up because the pay per views he did headline did terribly when it came to buyrate.

But yeah, the company that keeps him featured in storylines with CM Punk sabotaged him. Okay.

I don't care that Daniel Bryan is not the champion. I care that the WWE had yet another opportunity to build up a new superstar (used in its actual meaning, not in the way that Darren Young and Yoshi Tatsu are "WWE superstars") and they miserably failed yet again. I'm sick of it being the Cena and Orton show on top of the WWE, and if last week's tv ratings are any indication, I am not alone in that regard. I actually fear for where this company will be a decade from now because of how incompetent they have proven to be over this last decade. I'm not a mark for Daniel Bryan. I'm a mark for this business. And building new stars is imperative for the survival of it. Why do you think they bring in part-timers to pop a buyrate? Because the only new legit star they've built since the mid-2000's is CM Punk and he fucking did it himself! If you discount Punk, then you're going all the way back to Batista. I'm sick of people organically getting over, then getting pressed through the machine and coming out a bland, generic shell of what they once were before the WWE "got behind them".

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Well, you really failed pretty epically on making that point, because it came across as apologist drivel.

Only to you. Your comprehension has failed pretty epically so far.

I was illustrating the point that the logic you presented in your post was ridiculous. Because I'm here sitting at a computer, it's obvious that the same people that came up with these ridiculous angles are right and I am wrong. Basically, you worded it as such that ANY criticism of booking is blasphemy, as the guys in charge of creative certainly know more than Joe Wrestling Fan in St. Paul, Minnesota.

A gross exaggeration of a dig made to people who think they know what is better for a company they themselves do not work for.

Ah, there we go. The truth comes out. You just don't like Daniel Bryan.

A weak retort. Nowhere in my reply did I ever say anything negative about Daniel Bryan. If you're inferring my use of the word "generic" then I advise you to understand that generic isn't always a bad thing; especially when the roster is filled with vigilantes, cult members, reality starlets, and over-the-top national personalities.

I'm not gonna pretend like I'm some huge Bryan mark. I'm not. But, I can certainly recognize when they screw the pooch with an angle. So, tell me, was it their plan all along to try to transfer Bryan's momentum over to the Big Show? Because that's what they ended up trying to do, and it predictably failed because the fans WANTED BRYAN. It's not all that surprising that ratings started going in the shitter once the WWE decided that THEY knew what was "best for business" and stopped listening to the vocal contingent that they SOLD THEIR BUSINESS TO. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin doesn't happen today. Because all the WWF saw in him was the fucking Ringmaster. New character that's getting massively over with fans? Who gives a shit? That wasn't our plan. Why would a company change its plans based on what its consumers want? How ludicrous.

Their plan, as anyone watching that pays attention will tell you, was to make The Authority a dominant heel figure. In order to do so, you need faces that look like they stand a chance. Admittedly, not every pay per view is going to have a dream match for the championship. This is about Daniel Bryan, not Big Show though. You argue that Bryan, who headlined two pay per views against "The Face of The Company" is getting depushed for Big Show's one pay per view against the same superstar.

That's incorrect.

And the discussion on superstars not able to put their personal spin on things has absolutely nothing to do with this thread's subject and is completely off-topic.

What exactly is the Authority doing lately? Presiding over contract signings? Good angle to set that up.

Not paying much attention, are you? Not only have they ran into the dilemma of John Cena possibly being their champion and going against their rule, but they also face the problem that Randy Orton will too. Not to mention everyone and their mothers are expecting CM Punk and Daniel Bryan to step up to the plate after they're done with The Shield/Family, you got quite a lot going for The Authority's angle.

So yeah, it's a pretty good angle to set up just on the possibilities alone.

They have no idea how to build a top face anymore. That's what it comes down to. The only way they try to get faces over is by having them smile and tell corny jokes and then play Superman on the heels. Daniel Bryan got over, MASSIVELY FUCKING OVER, as a heel, and then as a tweener. The crowd was fucking dying for him to chant "YES" along with them for a fucking year and he would just "NO" them to death. The moment when he actually embraced them and started chanting "YES" back to them SHOULD HAVE been a huge moment for his character. But, it wasn't, because he just suddenly started YESing again. And then after he got screwed at SummerSlam, he was just like every other fucking face they've tried to push in the last five years. Come out and smile, crack a joke, kiss the fans' asses. THAT'S NOT WHAT FUCKING GOT HIM OVER IN THE FIRST PLACE. And they wonder why people don't buy the ones they try to push as major faces. Because they strip all their previously likable qualities away, the same qualities that got them over in the fucking first place, and then wonder why they don't draw on top. Has to be their fault, not ours. Oh no, we came up with the Rey/Eddie/Dominic. We know what the fuck we're doing!

Didn't read most of this because it just sounds like nonsensical ranting. But what little I did make out of this has to do with Daniel Bryan not being a built superstar, so I must ask you-

Is Daniel Bryan a built-up superstar? If the answer is yes, what the fuck are you complaining about? If not, then how do you explain all the screentime, the merchandise, the fan reaction he didn't have before, the key storylines he is a part of, etc?

And again you toss in irrelevant things like the Dominic storyline. If you really think the Dominic fiasco and Daniel Bryan not going after the WWE Championship are on-par, you need your head checked.

Next thing you'll do is throw Godwin's Law at me.

I don't care that Daniel Bryan is not the champion. I care that the WWE had yet another opportunity to build up a new superstar (used in its actual meaning, not in the way that Darren Young and Yoshi Tatsu are "WWE superstars") and they miserably failed yet again. I'm sick of it being the Cena and Orton show on top of the WWE, and if last week's tv ratings are any indication, I am not alone in that regard. I actually fear for where this company will be a decade from now because of how incompetent they have proven to be over this last decade. I'm not a mark for Daniel Bryan. I'm a mark for this business. And building new stars is imperative for the survival of it. Why do you think they bring in part-timers to pop a buyrate? Because the only new legit star they've built since the mid-2000's is CM Punk and he fucking did it himself! If you discount Punk, then you're going all the way back to Batista. I'm sick of people organically getting over, then getting pressed through the machine and coming out a bland, generic shell of what they once were before the WWE "got behind them".

If you think Daniel Bryan isn't a star already, I can't be bothered to respond to another reply from you, because you are obviously not grasping anything but old horrible WWE angles to try and compare Bryan not getting the title with.

Daniel Bryan not being WWE Champion or even featured in the main storyline is not sabotage. This kind of thinking is stupid. Major WWE superstars go through the same motions Bryan has. Austin did it. Foley did it a lot. Even The Rock and Triple H himself did it. Do not confuse WWE dropping any ball with fans not getting their way all of the time.

Because then they go on rants about Dominic and being sick of the entire product, yet fail to understand that If you don't like something, you don't invest time in it.

 

[Mark Henry's Beard]

Only to you. Your comprehension has failed pretty epically so far.



A gross exaggeration of a dig made to people who think they know what is better for a company they themselves do not work for.

Because the WWE is a business ran by individuals who pay more attention to the stock of their wrestlers and crowd reactions better than anyone sitting by a computer who continuously bitches that they think their favorites aren't getting the good end of the deal when in reality Daniel Bryan is bigger than ever and doesn't need the WWE Championship to elicit a response from the crowd.

That's what you said, Jack. I'm not twisting your words. Anyone complaining about the angle should shut the fuck up because Father Knows Best, right? And, yes, I keep bringing up shitty angles from the past because I could sit on my couch and say Katie Vick, child custody storylines, and "ECW" were bad ideas, yet they still played out on my television screen because the people who "know better for the company because they're there and all" gave them the green light. If you wanted to better make your point, perhaps coming at it from a sarcastic "bookers know more than you" angle wasn't the best way to do it.

A weak retort. Nowhere in my reply did I ever say anything negative about Daniel Bryan. If you're inferring my use of the word "generic" then I advise you to understand that generic isn't always a bad thing; especially when the roster is filled with vigilantes, cult members, reality starlets, and over-the-top national personalities.

Oh yeah. It's a GREAT thing to be a generic wrestler. I'd actually like to hang out with you. We could go to a bar and call random people "********ers" and then explain to them why that's a good thing. Not even Hulk Hogan tried to spin his "vanilla midget" comment about Malenko and Benoit, because there's no spinning. I'll tell you two things that a professional wrestler does NOT want to be: generic or vanilla. And I don't need access to a locker room to be able to tell you that.

Their plan, as anyone watching that pays attention will tell you, was to make The Authority a dominant heel figure. In order to do so, you need faces that look like they stand a chance. Admittedly, not every pay per view is going to have a dream match for the championship. This is about Daniel Bryan, not Big Show though. You argue that Bryan, who headlined two pay per views against "The Face of The Company" is getting depushed for Big Show's one pay per view against the same superstar.

That's incorrect.

And the discussion on superstars not able to put their personal spin on things has absolutely nothing to do with this thread's subject and is completely off-topic.

It's not off the topic. This is a thread about the push of Daniel Bryan and why it did not work. I say that it didn't work not because he was purposely sabotaged, but because the WWE's way of booking top faces unintentionally sabotages them to begin with. And they DID attempt to pass Bryan's push onto Big Show. Show started doing the fucking YES chants, for Christ's sake. In fact, if one actually is to believe Bryan's push was sabotaged intentionally because he "doesn't look like a WWE guy", example number one of evidence would be that the transfered Bryan's angle over to the Big Show.

Not paying much attention, are you? Not only have they ran into the dilemma of John Cena possibly being their champion and going against their rule, but they also face the problem that Randy Orton will too. Not to mention everyone and their mothers are expecting CM Punk and Daniel Bryan to step up to the plate after they're done with The Shield/Family, you got quite a lot going for The Authority's angle.

So yeah, it's a pretty good angle to set up just on the possibilities alone.

And the television ratings would reflect that most people are absolutely fucking sick of Cena vs. Orton. Aren't ratings what is "best for business"? Do the bookers know that? Not that Daniel Bryan set the Nielsen's on fire, but this feud has had about ten years to do so and has not. It's boring. It's played out. And not even hot-shotting a title unification is making people give a shit.

Didn't read most of this because it just sounds like nonsensical ranting. But what little I did make out of this has to do with Daniel Bryan not being a built superstar, so I must ask you-

Is Daniel Bryan a built-up superstar? If the answer is yes, what the fuck are you complaining about? If not, then how do you explain all the screentime, the merchandise, the fan reaction he didn't have before, the key storylines he is a part of, etc?

And again you toss in irrelevant things like the Dominic storyline. If you really think the Dominic fiasco and Daniel Bryan not going after the WWE Championship are on-par, you need your head checked.

Next thing you'll do is throw Godwin's Law at me.

Funny that you've questioned my reading comprehension several times, then flat-out admit to not reading something I wrote. The paragraph you ignored was very relevant to Daniel Bryan and his loss of the momentum that he had earlier this summer. Perhaps you couldn't refute what I said there, so you used the old "(Excuse) Didn't read". I already explained earlier how me bringing up old booking disasters is relevant to refuting your original, poorly stated post that started this entire discussion we're having.

To answer your question, no. He is not a fully built up superstar. There are only three of those on the full-time roster: Cena, Orton, and Punk. That's it.

If you think Daniel Bryan isn't a star already, I can't be bothered to respond to another reply from you, because you are obviously not grasping anything but old horrible WWE angles to try and compare Bryan not getting the title with.

Daniel Bryan not being WWE Champion or even featured in the main storyline is not sabotage. This kind of thinking is stupid. Major WWE superstars go through the same motions Bryan has. Austin did it. Foley did it a lot. Even The Rock and Triple H himself did it. Do not confuse WWE dropping any ball with fans not getting their way all of the time.

Because then they go on rants about Dominic and being sick of the entire product, yet fail to understand that If you don't like something, you don't invest time in it.

I have never compared Bryan not getting the title to ANY of those angles. You fail to comprehend the point behind that, and I've laid it out for you pretty damn clearly.

Here's a question for you, since you are so sure of the superstardom of Daniel Bryan: could Daniel Bryan headline a PPV in a match that didn't involve Cena, Orton, or Punk?

The correct answer is, of course, fuck no, which means that if in order to headline a PPV, you MUST be against a superstar, then you, yourself are NOT a superstar.

 

[MCMG]

Yes, Bryan is over but people must understand he isn't a megastar. Even with a WWE Title run I doubt he would get to that level. It doesn't just happen overnight and it requires much better writing or more fortuitous circumstances than are currently on display.

To call Bryan generic is harsh. He is above average in the ring and is extremely popular with fans. While he can't hold a promo like Cena, Punk or The Rock; his strength is in different departments.

To be honest, I'm not sure if there was any reason they sabotaged his push. Logic would suggest that he wins the belt of Orton. There is also logic in him getting a Wrestlemania moment after a long chase - remember, you want the face chasing the belt.

I will say this, Bryan can still get his moment. Orton/Cena has taken centre stage but we don't know what will happen thereafter. Cena could team with Hogan or face The Undertaker leaving Bryan prime for a shot at the WWE Undisputed Championship.

It could well be an inspiring decision by the WWE not to put the belt on him instantly. They have made the chase as long as possible allowing them to unify the belts in the proper manner; have Cena do something bigger at Mania and still let Bryan win the belt and get his moment. I'm not saying it is going to happen, or even that I want to see it (I'd rather see Punk/Orton) but Bryan could still benefit from this initial push and win the title.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Well first of all, I don't think this has anything to do with people "crying" or "bitching" about their favorites not being where they want. I think this is more of an observation of the fact that Daniel Bryan was main eventing each pay per view and the center focus of each Raw, and now he is not. He was on a major hot streak that looked like it was going to have a huge pay off which it hasn't. These are all truths. Out of all the hype and story building, there was never a title run and he is no longer in the main event. Some people may or may not be upset about that, but ultimately I don't think this thread was ever meant to be about how we feel, but what is the reasoning. I personally have three theories.

Theory A:
He got the push because WWE and Cena and all the powers that be felt that he was ready. He had some great promos with Cena and went on to have a great match. Cena loses and is going to be on the shelf because of the surgery he needed. So naturally WWE is going to have to find a suitable opponent to feud with. Well, Punk was already in a program with Heyman, so the only other top draw WWE had, who conveniently had an easy way into a feud with the briefcase, was Orton. So they put Bryan in a feud with the second biggest active name in WWE. I believe they had the intent to carry on with all the momentum built up but there were a few problems. Problem number one being that there isn't much chemistry between Orton and Bryan. With Cena and Bryan, the atmosphere was electric because it was this WWE branded company man who is unstoppable(and often criticized of his wrestling ability) vs the underdog who worked his ass off to get to where he was and had amazing in ring ability. It was a perfect feud. When he feuded with Orton, it was during a period where Orton really wasn't doing anything relevant prior to that point. Furthermore, the promos just weren't very good. They were played out and dry. It was a series of cookie cutter promos, vs the more organic promos between Cena and Bryan. I could see the steam blowing away at this point. In fact, Bryan was my absolute favorite during this time and his Summer Slam match was the best match I've seen all year IMO, but I had little to no interest in his matches with Orton. So ultimately I think it was do to a bad pairing of opponents that led to Bryan losing steam.

Theory B:
The reason there was no big pay off, is simply because it hasn't happened yet. Let's take a step back and look at the storyline big picture. Rewind to the summer when The Wyatts first entered the scene and feuded with Kane. They eventually abducted Kane, talked about changing him. Fast forward to when he returns, he is working for Triple H/The Authority. Hmmm so the results of The Wyatt's actions seem to have been beneficial for Triple H/The Authority.
OK now let's jump to Hell in a Cell. Bryan loses as a result of Sweet Chin Music by none other than the best friend of Triple H. The next night on Raw Bryan attacks HBK and shortly after is decimated by The Wyatts. The very same Wyatts who provided another member for Triple H's side. Then Bray saying the devil made him do it.
Then we have an attack on CM Punk, another anti-austhorit figure who has had problems with Triple H in the past. Once again, the devil made him do it. This then led to a small feud with Bryan and Punk vs The Wyatts. The Wyatts were aided at one point by Triple H's/The Authority's hired muscle. Conspiracy? Shortly after, as if in an attempt to keep the Wyatt's focus on Bryan, The Shield begins to target Punk.
So we see another abduction and Bray Wyatt trying to spread his gospel to Daniel Bryan. The very same thing that landed Kane right into Triple H's hands. Now we have a 3 on 1 match with Bryan against the Wyatts, made by the very same man that ended up in Triple Hs hands after the Wyatts. I think that, it is possible that it wasn't sabotaged, and that there is just a bigger pay off coming later down the road at then end of a very elaborate plot.

Theory C: Both theories are correct, and the events taking place in "Theory B" are a result of the events of "Theory A". Simply put, the plan, rather than being sabotaged, simply didn't work and we are consequently seeing a new plan, that they are taking their time with.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Because the WWE is a business ran by individuals who pay more attention to the stock of their wrestlers and crowd reactions better than anyone sitting by a computer who continuously bitches that they think their favorites aren't getting the good end of the deal when in reality Daniel Bryan is bigger than ever and doesn't need the WWE Championship to elicit a response from the crowd.

That's what you said, Jack. I'm not twisting your words. Anyone complaining about the angle should shut the fuck up because Father Knows Best, right?

A dig made against internet smarks who think Daniel Bryan not being on top = a travesty and "sabotage" is in no way, shape, or form me saying people should shut up about the entire WWE program because they know best.

They just know better than you and me.

And, yes, I keep bringing up shitty angles from the past because I could sit on my couch and say Katie Vick, child custody storylines, and "ECW" were bad ideas, yet they still played out on my television screen because the people who "know better for the company because they're there and all" gave them the green light. If you wanted to better make your point, perhaps coming at it from a sarcastic "bookers know more than you" angle wasn't the best way to do it.

You continue to exaggerate what was clearly a dig (which I already said in my previous post to you) and act like my words equate to no one should voice an opinion because WWE never makes a mistake.

They do, as you have made clear with old proof. Now try and tell me how comedy segments, envelope-pushing drama, and resurrecting lackluster wrestling companies is on the same level as Daniel Bryan not being the forefront of The Authority angle.

Do it with a straight face.

Oh yeah. It's a GREAT thing to be a generic wrestler. I'd actually like to hang out with you. We could go to a bar and call random people "********ers" and then explain to them why that's a good thing. Not even Hulk Hogan tried to spin his "vanilla midget" comment about Malenko and Benoit, because there's no spinning. I'll tell you two things that a professional wrestler does NOT want to be: generic or vanilla. And I don't need access to a locker room to be able to tell you that.

Once again, you missed the point I made entirely, but this time was hilarious. Let me rephrase it. It is okay to be a generic wrestler, especially when the rest of the locker room is full of overt caricatures. Generic stands out more. Sometimes you need a wrestler fans can connect with because they're fucking normal. It's a good thing. I don't blame you for thinking the term generic is a negative word. But those that have cracked open a dictionary or pulled up what it means online will tell you that generic doesn't necessarily mean bland.

And I'm good company at bars.

It's not off the topic. This is a thread about the push of Daniel Bryan and why it did not work. I say that it didn't work not because he was purposely sabotaged, but because the WWE's way of booking top faces unintentionally sabotages them to begin with. And they DID attempt to pass Bryan's push onto Big Show. Show started doing the fucking YES chants, for Christ's sake. In fact, if one actually is to believe Bryan's push was sabotaged intentionally because he "doesn't look like a WWE guy", example number one of evidence would be that the transfered Bryan's angle over to the Big Show.

So the fans doing the "YES" chants with Big Show is a clear indicator that WWE passed the push over?

How about the night after WrestleMania 29, when fans used "YES" in several matches Daniel Bryan was not in?

Or how about an oldie since you like those..did WWE pass over Austin's push when different superstars started getting the "What?" chants?

Daniel Bryan wasn't passed over. WWE just realized Bryan vs. Orton Part 3 would have done worse because the buyrates were low the previous two pay per views. For fans to be so up in arms for Bryan, they weren't that invested in him when it came to the ppv.

And the television ratings would reflect that most people are absolutely fucking sick of Cena vs. Orton. Aren't ratings what is "best for business"? Do the bookers know that? Not that Daniel Bryan set the Nielsen's on fire, but this feud has had about ten years to do so and has not. It's boring. It's played out. And not even hot-shotting a title unification is making people give a shit.

I'll leave you to answer this, if you can:

1. How many times did Orton and Cena really face off 1-on-1?
2. How long ago has it been since they had?
3. Are they or are they not WWE's two biggest stars?

Funny that you've questioned my reading comprehension several times, then flat-out admit to not reading something I wrote. The paragraph you ignored was very relevant to Daniel Bryan and his loss of the momentum that he had earlier this summer. Perhaps you couldn't refute what I said there, so you used the old "(Excuse) Didn't read". I already explained earlier how me bringing up old booking disasters is relevant to refuting your original, poorly stated post that started this entire discussion we're having.

You decided to take me on about what I said, and so far have done terribly. My post was a dig on the ******ed smarky belief that if Bryan isn't headlining PPVs then WWE sabotaged him. I've stated this quite a few times, for something stated "poorly". Thus when you keep coming at me about it, it makes me believe you can't comprehend it.

And I skimmed through what you said because it was full of textbook IWC ranting bullshit.

To answer your question, no. He is not a fully built up superstar. There are only three of those on the full-time roster: Cena, Orton, and Punk. That's it.

And this is where you lost all credibility. Daniel Bryan is bigger than ever because everyone expects him to either win the Royal Rumble or soon take out The Authority himself. If that's not a sign of a fully built up superstar, then nothing is.

I have never compared Bryan not getting the title to ANY of those angles. You fail to comprehend the point behind that, and I've laid it out for you pretty damn clearly.

Okay, since you are so good at laying things out so clearly..

If you're not on about Daniel Bryan not being on top, what are you blathering about?

Here's a question for you, since you are so sure of the superstardom of Daniel Bryan: could Daniel Bryan headline a PPV in a match that didn't involve Cena, Orton, or Punk?

He can and has before.

The correct answer is, of course, fuck no,

Clearly you forgot that he did headline several ppvs with Sheamus. 5 Star matches they were not, but he has headlined and he is still on the rise.

which means that if in order to headline a PPV, you MUST be against a superstar, then you, yourself are NOT a superstar.

Well since I clearly shut that whole theory down, what say you and I hit a bar and talk about Katie Vick?

 

[Mark Henry's Beard]

A dig made against internet smarks who think Daniel Bryan not being on top = a travesty and "sabotage" is in no way, shape, or form me saying people should shut up about the entire WWE program because they know best.

They just know better than you and me.


You continue to exaggerate what was clearly a dig (which I already said in my previous post to you) and act like my words equate to no one should voice an opinion because WWE never makes a mistake.

They do, as you have made clear with old proof. Now try and tell me how comedy segments, envelope-pushing drama, and resurrecting lackluster wrestling companies is on the same level as Daniel Bryan not being the forefront of The Authority angle.

Do it with a straight face.

Never said it was. Not once. This issue has been resolved. Let's move on.

Once again, you missed the point I made entirely, but this time was hilarious. Let me rephrase it. It is okay to be a generic wrestler, especially when the rest of the locker room is full of overt caricatures. Generic stands out more. Sometimes you need a wrestler fans can connect with because they're fucking normal. It's a good thing. I don't blame you for thinking the term generic is a negative word. But those that have cracked open a dictionary or pulled up what it means online will tell you that generic doesn't necessarily mean bland.

And I'm good company at bars.

Now, this, I could not possibly disagree with more. One of the biggest problems today is that most faces are TOO GENERIC. Every example of an over the top character you gave had something in common. Any guesses? They're all HEELS. Bryan wasn't generic in Team Hell No, which is what his role was before this angle began. Not at all. He actually had a gimmick, one that we could see in action every week. What exactly is Cody Rhodes' gimmick? Or Kofi Kingston's? Or Christian's? Generic mid card babyface is their gimmick. It's why they can disappear for months at a time and have no one notice or care. We don't need any more of that. Big E and Goldust would fall into the same category if not for their distinct looks. Because WWE doesn't know what the fuck to do with faces.

So the fans doing the "YES" chants with Big Show is a clear indicator that WWE passed the push over?

How about the night after WrestleMania 29, when fans used "YES" in several matches Daniel Bryan was not in?

Or how about an oldie since you like those..did WWE pass over Austin's push when different superstars started getting the "What?" chants?

Daniel Bryan wasn't passed over. WWE just realized Bryan vs. Orton Part 3 would have done worse because the buyrates were low the previous two pay per views. For fans to be so up in arms for Bryan, they weren't that invested in him when it came to the ppv.

You are comparing apples to penises here, sir. Big Show LED THE FUCKING CROWD IN YES CHANTS. Even Lance Storm said he would be pissed if he were Bryan. Does his opinion matter, or only the bookers?

I'll leave you to answer this, if you can:

1. How many times did Orton and Cena really face off 1-on-1?
2. How long ago has it been since they had?
3. Are they or are they not WWE's two biggest stars?

1. Don't know. Seems like a lot. I would guess they've main evented nine or ten PPVs against each other, which is fucking ridiculous.

2. Singles, probably '09, that I remember. They have faced in multi-man matches on PPV since then, however.

3. Yep, they are. Because of exactly what I've been saying all along: the WWE can not build new stars to save their fucking life. Whether they are against each other every single month on PPV or not, they have been the WWE's "Top two stars" for a very long time and people are sick of it. Monday night's RAW was the LOWEST RATED RAW THIS YEAR. The "two biggest stars" are having a contract signing to the "biggest match of all-time" and it gets the LOWEST RATING OF ANY RAW THIS YEAR. And we are in fucking December. That's a lot of RAWs. Many of them which were headlined by *gasp* Daniel Bryan.

You decided to take me on about what I said, and so far have done terribly. My post was a dig on the ******ed smarky belief that if Bryan isn't headlining PPVs then WWE sabotaged him. I've stated this quite a few times, for something stated "poorly". Thus when you keep coming at me about it, it makes me believe you can't comprehend it.

And I skimmed through what you said because it was full of textbook IWC ranting bullshit.

What's worse? An IWC smark or someone (who themselves is an IWC smark) who fights the good fight pwning those noobz? Let me clue you in on something: there is no such thing as a smark anymore. At some point in the last few years, the cool, smarky thing to do became to start defending the product in all almost all instances since it would be the OPPOSITE of what a smark would normally do.

BTW, if someone honestly believes there is a conspiracy against their favorite wrestler to purposely hold them back, they are a straight up MARK. Do we still use that term here in Internet land?

And this is where you lost all credibility. Daniel Bryan is bigger than ever because everyone expects him to either win the Royal Rumble or soon take out The Authority himself. If that's not a sign of a fully built up superstar, then nothing is.

Wish in one hand, shit in the other, and see which one fills up first. People expect that because THAT's WHAT PEOPLE WANT. As WWE has clearly shown many times, they could give a fuck less about giving us what we want. They will give us what THEY want. And that probably involves Alberto Del Rio or Sheamus.

Okay, since you are so good at laying things out so clearly..

If you're not on about Daniel Bryan not being on top, what are you blathering about?

The WWE's complete inability to create new stars.

He can and has before.



Clearly you forgot that he did headline several ppvs with Sheamus. 5 Star matches they were not, but he has headlined and he is still on the rise.



Well since I clearly shut that whole theory down, what say you and I hit a bar and talk about Katie Vick?

Ok, let me clarify what "headlining a PPV" is. It means main event, or at the very least, semi-main event. Opening WrestleMania in an 18 second WHC match and then going on 4th at Extreme Rules prior to a Ryback match, a divas match, Punk/Jericho and Cena/Lesnar is NOT headlining a PPV.