Did the WWE screw up with CM Punk

[TWJC: The Beginning]

No I'm sorry but that line of thinking is just naive. If Vince was solely interested in making money and building bigger fan bases he wouldn't have buried WCW and ECW after purchasing them. The fact that they managed to keep exactly less than zero of either companies fans after acquisition ( as evidenced by the still stagnant and declining ratings and the fact that the biggest drops happened right after it happened) is ridiculous. Also, then why did he sabotage Smackdown in the early 2000's after Paul Hetman started producing an exciting and compelling product for no other reason than it was successful. Vince as Punk said is currently "a millionaire who should be a billionaire, despite himself." Make no mistake, Vince hasn't cared more about making money, rather than placating his own ego, ever. It's just that for most of his life, doing both have seemingly fallen in lockstep. The sad thing is that during the Attitude era he was forced by WCW to admit his failures and loosen the reigns on the talent and wrestling's greatest boom period followed. The sadder thing is, that he learned nothing from it.

And no one in their right mind would blame the talent nowadays. How can someone be expected to get over with the leash this tight? With WWE forgetting continuity ( far more than normal) and burying you one second and exalting you the next.

Sorry I refuse to blame the talent for this, as the talent has pretty much zero wiggle room to get themselves over. If it were booked the way it was years ago you'd be right, but nowadays they are at the mercy of the writers, the scripts, and Vince's favor and whims. There is no mold to break right now, so if Vince wants you to be a glittery ballroom dance instructor that draws no heat, that's exactly what YOU ARE. And if you tell him to go fuck himself, you are out of a job as Vince isn't as desperate to keep talent as he was Austin did it.

Opportunity is dried up and make no mistake, the drabness and failures are Vince's.

As far as Cena being stale, if WCW was smart enough to notice Hogan's character was stagnating as a good guy, a guy who at the time, was very much like Cena in the, "He'all never turn category.", then with the safety nets they currently have in place, the WWE has no excuse. In wrestling, you don't fight the whims of the crowd, and when a guy like John Cena can't manage any more than a fifty-fifty split in his hometown, the answer is obvious.

I stand by what I said. Had they turned him heel on Raw 1000, Punk would be your guy and guys like Ryback and Ziggler would be far better off popularity wise. We'd be amazed at the change and would be talking a lot more about the rising stars as we went into this Wrestlemania.

Also Rock vs. Punk would be way more interesting.

You lack business sense.

1) He used WCW talent. It's who gets over. The most over WCW guys didn't initially come over.

2) don't compare ratings directly. It's not apples to apples.

3) how do you know what goes on backstage? I've read reports where Punk has said guys could be more "them" if they want but they are more content just listening to writers. Also, like Scott Hall said "if you want me to be GI Joe, I'll be the best GI Joe". Dustin Rhodes got Golddust over as a character. He's talented.

4). Hogan was in a different company, that ran different towns, and had a different idea of "rasslin". Also, that was a different era. Cena works the smarks. They still show up, they still watch, they still would rather chant "Cena sucks" than for the other guy, they would still rather make signs about "Cena sucks". He's a heel to them. Smarks aren't smart. They are just as easily worked. All you have to do is post an Internet report of "*imsert net darling* in doghouse for doing dangerous move" and that guy is more over with the smarks. If Cena were as stale as its claimed, they wouldn't make noise or watch or send time expressing their views of him. I hate Jersey Shore and Real Housewives. I don't watch the show, I don't tell people how much I hate it except in this example, I definately don't join message boards. So either the Cena haters really do think he's stale but they're too stupid\glutons for punishments to stop thinking about him, or they love to hate him like we used to hate foreign heels.

5). No way in hell Punk is ever over as much as a baby face. Punk is Roddy Piper. It's marketability and his natural abilities.

Stop thinking about your own personal views and look at the situation objectively. Also, try formulating an original opinion. You'll sound less like an IWC drone that way with your copy and paste opinion.

 

[Yawa]

You lack business sense.

Apparently. Especially considering every opportunity that was given to the WWE to revitalize two major brands they bought, and instead using it as a chance to further get their own guys over. The way the invasion of both companies was done was a disgrace, and it is a huge part of the reason wrestling is as dull as can be today.

1) He used WCW talent. It's who gets over. The most over WCW guys didn't initially come over.

Yes because they were given every opportunity to succeed. You're joking right?

I give you they didn't have enough of the guys locked up to stage an invasion, but you can honestly tell me, with a straight face, that they didn't blow the moments with the guys they had?

DDP got one of the loudest pops I've ever heard, even in the middle of a stalking undertakers wife storyline, and they refused to recognize that and instead forced him down our throats as a bad guy.

No matter how you feel about it, there is a lot of business sense in a Cena heel turn, because in wrestling there is a lot of common sense in listening to what the people want.

2) don't compare ratings directly. It's not apples to apples.

I'd give you this if I was talking about today's Ratings. I was commenting on the sharp decline that happened one to two years after he bought everything up. A decline that might not have happened if more effort was put into retaining the fans of the other companies.

3) how do you know what goes on backstage? I've read reports where Punk has said guys could be more "them" if they want but they are more content just listening to writers. Also, like Scott Hall said "if you want me to be GI Joe, I'll be the best GI Joe". Dustin Rhodes got Golddust over as a character. He's talented.

There is a million different theories about what goes on backstage, and most of them imply a tighter leash than ever before. It's great that Dustin Rhodes got Goldust over. A true company guy. But stating that you should be able to get over no matter what Vince saddles you with is just stupid. It eliminates grounds for critical thinking and discourse.

Please get your head out of Vince's ass and try to remember that if he had gotten his way the highest drawing wrestler of all time would have likely faded into obscurity as footnote called the Ringmaster. Vince always getting his way is killing this shit, if not financially, then creatively.

4). Hogan was in a different company, that ran different towns, and had a different idea of "rasslin". Also, that was a different era. Cena works the smarks. They still show up, they still watch, they still would rather chant "Cena sucks" than for the other guy, they would still rather make signs about "Cena sucks". He's a heel to them. Smarks aren't smart. They are just as easily worked. All you have to do is post an Internet report of "*imsert net darling* in doghouse for doing dangerous move" and that guy is more over with the smarks. If Cena were as stale as its claimed, they wouldn't make noise or watch or send time expressing their views of him. I hate Jersey Shore and Real Housewives. I don't watch the show, I don't tell people how much I hate it except in this example, I definately don't join message boards. So either the Cena haters really do think he's stale but they're too stupid\glutons for punishments to stop thinking about him, or they love to hate him like we used to hate foreign heels.

And also like hogan this is happening more and more wherever he goes. It is obviously not just the smarks. It is spreading. I can't remember a show where Cena just got cheers.

Again, going against the whim of your fans is always bad business. If this was a few hecklers, in a few towns, you'd have a point. But the WWE's top guy is only managing a 50/50 split on his BEST nights.

That is a problem.

5). No way in hell Punk is ever over as much as a baby face. Punk is Roddy Piper. It's marketability and his natural abilities.

Stop thinking about your own personal views and look at the situation objectively. Also, try formulating an original opinion. You'll sound less like an IWC drone that way with your copy and paste opinion.

You can be both man. Punk would be fine with boos or cheers. That statement just shows how little you grasp of this situation

Not sure what I said to draw your ire when it comes to personal attacks, but this ain't an IWC rant. The WWE is and has been illogical and stale for years now, and this shit is a huge reason why.

"Dolph go out there and get over while we bury you, forget to use you, and script your promos and matches to look weak." Bullshit.

Open your eyes, friend and wipe the bullshit out of them. Or go back to enjoying the trivial senseless product wrestling has become, when it could be so much more. Asking for something you love and pay for to be better, is not too much to ask.

 

[The Perfect Max]

John Cena will always be the top face as long as he is a face in the company. You cannot deny that as much as you may dislike it. CM Punk is a brilliant face. I preferred his face run during July and August 2011. It was his best work. I prefer that CM Punk. He may be a face, but he was edgy. More of a tweener who fans loved.

But CM Punk is WWE's best heel. He's currently the best heel they've had since Triple H in my opinion. Better than Edge in my books and Edge was a brilliant heel. WWE know CM Punk has a huge fan base. When he turns face again he will get top pops, no doubt. But why waste the opportunity they have now of keeping him a heel. He draws massive heat and is holds a good character alongside Heyman. WWE didn't miss an opportunity, they capatalized on one. I expect Punk to stay in this role for much of 2013.

 

[Agent Of S.H.I.E.L.D.]

When it's time for CM Punk to be a face again, he'll be a face. Right now he's the hottest heel in years, and he's fine there. When Cena is heel, he'll be a face. Until then he remains heel.

 

[Flash H]

Ok, I think Punk can do great in ring work and can cut a promo as either a heel or face. I see a few main issues with CM Punk being a heel.

1. I enjoy Paul Heyman's work A LOT. I get that Punk is a "Paul Heyman guy", but does Punk really need him?

2. All of these recent cheap wins, I don't understand them. I get WWE was trying to get him over again as a bad guy, but I think it completely ruined his credibility. Punk was having a great title reign, but then he had to get cheap wins to keep the belt? He beat too many people in too many matches. It just seemed like WWE rushed into turning him back. They were trying too hard to revamp him as a heel, instead of making the turn feel smooth.

 

[ChrisHelms]

In many ways CM Punk is a top face to the company, just not in the way that a normal fan would think.

He's super over with the smark crowd, and we do big business for the WWE . He's not really a face or a heel. Hell I wouldn't even call him a tweener. He's just CM Punk, folk hero of WWE smark wrestling lore.