Is CM Punk the mid-card Champion?

[Jack-Hammer]

Actually, the guy carrying the title isn't always the #1 guy in the company in terms of drawing ability, in-ring ability, charisma or whatever measuring stick you want to use when you judge who the top guys are.

When Randy Savage won the WWF Championship for the first time, he still wasn't on Hogan's level. Hogan was still "the man" just as John Cena currently is. Even when Warrior won the title, from Hogan himself, same thing. Even when Ric Flair won the WWF Championship during his run in the early 90s, he still wasn't "the man" like Hogan was. In WCW, the same thing happened to guys like Barry Windham, Lex Luger, Ron Simmons, Rick Rude, Savage when he came to WCW and others. Many of these guys, in my eyes, were all great wrestlers that deserved to be champion, but that didn't make them "the man" as far as the true top dog in the company goes.

John Cena is still "the face" of WWE and if CM Punk is going to be the next "face" of the company, it's not going to happen within the span of a year. That's just how it is. Cena is someone that's been on top of the WWE for about 7 years now, and rightly so. For all the hate he gets, when it comes to being THE face of a pro wrestling company, there's nobody in all of wrestling better at it than John Cena. It might stick in the craw of some people to admit it, but it's true. Cena continuously generates massive interest in fans for whatever he's doing, whether you're booing him or cheering him, he very often delivers damn good wrestling matches, his feuds almost always garner tons of attention from fans & viewers, etc.

Maybe CM Punk will never be "the man" like John Cena currently is, few guys will come along in a generation that can legitimately be the face of a huge wrestling company for years on end. However, that doesn't mean that Punk can't be that guy, nor does it mean that he's not a superior talent in pro wrestling. Being a top tier champion doesn't always go hand in hand with greatness or even being "the top guy". I've watched pro wrestling my entire life and that's a pretty obvious fact.

 

[midgensa]

I thought that this might be a really good thread when I saw the title and immediately thought, "this guy is on to something." But in the end, the way things are going makes sense.

The money makers have been Cena/Rock, Cena/Lesnar, Lesnar/HHH build and even Cena/Ace.

Punk is doing and admirable job in a tough position. The thing is ... his extremely lengthy WWE Championship reign that began not too long after a solid feud with Cena leaves a match between those guys ALWAYS on the table and the WWE KNOWS that.

Punk is going to ascend back into a top rate feud at some point and he will be carrying the strap with him. The feud with Jericho was solid, but obviously overshadowed. But honestly there was not much else they could do with Punk. Where on the card is he supposed to go? Lesnar vs. Cena and Cena vs. Rock are the moneymakers ... and I don't think anyone can dispute that.

I am thinking at some point Punk comes out and brings all this to the head with a "I am the WWE CHAMPION dammit rant" and calls out Johnny Ace, Brock Lesnar, HHH, The Rock, etc. for all going to Cena when he BEAT Cena and took HIS title. This will be helpful in leading to multiple angles and feuds.

I just don't think there is a lot else they could have done with Punk throughout all of this (although if he stays behind Cena vs. Ace for long it will be perplexing).

 

[XXJJ]

Cena is the face of the WWE he will overshadow Punk.

The big issue is Triple H. They are giving top feuds to a part-timer. After Cena, Lesnar should of been in a program with Orton or Punk. You are not going to maximize them if you dont give them high profile opponents.

That is how Triple H stays relevant. He jumps into the biggest storylines in wrestling. There was no need for Hunter in the Punk/Cena angle.

I'm all for them bringing back guys like Rock and Lesnar. But they should be working with the full-time guys to help elevate there status.

Triple H should be working with guys like Ziggler and Rhodes not wrestling Lesnar.

 

[asiatic7]

[QUOTE

Triple H should be working with guys like Ziggler and Rhodes not wrestling Lesnar.[/QUOTE]

You're right, but It just shows how much confidence that they have in the young stars. They rely on part time stars from an era almost fifteen years ago.

 

[IT Factor]

It seems like every other day there is yet another CM Punk hate thread around here. It's kinda like the Orton or Cena hate threads. WWE fans are an enigma wrapped in a riddle, followed up by a question that doesn't make sense.

Fans cheer for guys like Orton, Cena, or Punk on their rise to the top and then turn right around and complain once they remain there. It's contradictory and people need to make up their minds, either you like these guys or you outright hate them. It's impossible to do both, so pick a stance and stop flip-flopping already.

As for CM Punk specifically, he's exactly the same as he was before. An outspoken character who is a great in-ring competitor, that hasn't changed. What has changed since last year is that WWE royally screwed up something major with the Punk storyline. Like they did with the WCW & ECW invasions and as they did with the nWo invading WWE. Want more examples? How about the stop-and-start pushes? Jack Swagger, Dolph Ziggler, Sheamus, Barrett, Daniel Bryan, and the list goes on and on. What do these guys have in common with CM Punk? They've all had possible major storylines that WWE failed to utilize to completion and it's full potential. And aside from CM Punk, those other guys[save maybe Sheamus] have been yo-yo'ed in being used and not being used. The bottom line is that WWE cost themselves a great storyline because of phoning it in because their "creative team" is anything but creative. Of course, they were doomed the minute they took Nash outta the match against Punk and inserted HHH. He proceeded to defeat Punk, taking away any full-steam ahead momentum he might've had going forward. CM Punk is still entertaining outside the ring and great in-ring. It's the WWE machine and it's way of doing business that has everything less than watchable.

Want another major storyline flop example? Chris Jericho's entire 2012 return. They had a great premise with the return vignettes and screwed up majorly doing anything meaningful with him. He's now the biggest main-event jobber WWE has. Nuff said......

 

[ultramattman]

All this bellyaching about how awful it is that CM Punk's matches aren't the last match of the night (gasp!) is getting tired. People. CM Punk, the guy you all thought was so great and that WWE was too ignorant and stupid to ever push, has spent most of the last year holding the WWE title. He carries Raw. He's feuding for the title with Daniel Bryan for crying out loud. And half of you are missing it because OH MY GOD THE MATCHES ARE IN THE WRONG ORDER.

 

[lowandmighty]

Well, I'm not sure he's a mid carder but he is in an interesting situation compared to other champions of the past.

You see, CM punk is a relatively new wrestler in wwe and not everyone in the world knows who he is so when big names like Brock Lesnar are brought in they take top spot simply because of the awareness they create. The more these type of guys get brought in (lesnar, undertaker, the rock) the more people watch the show and the more people will see cm punk as the champion. There really isn't anyone in wwe at the moment who could single handedly drive the machine that is wwe so these guys nee to be brought in to create awareness of guys who are now top talent like cm punk.

Back in the 80's when Hogan was champion he was more famous than most of the celebrities they brought in (mr T) and wrestling fans wanted to see him more than some of the other celebrities that were brought in (Cindy Lauper) so wwe didn't need to pull as many stunts as they already had a world famous star carrying the belt and giving it credibility.

I'll tell you one thing though, if CM punk keeps feuding with nobody's like Daniel Bryan then he will be a mid carder. There's nothing worse than seeing someone as embarrassing as Daniel Bryan in the title picture. CM punk needs to feud with someone better than that to keep the championship thriving that's for sure.

 

[IT Factor]

Well, I'm not sure he's a mid carder but he is in an interesting situation compared to other champions of the past.

How so? Because Punk is THE man in WWE right now. He's being used prominently on television and is always around. Just like "other champions of the past". Seems the same to me.

You see, CM punk is a relatively new wrestler in wwe and not everyone in the world knows who he is so when big names like Brock Lesnar are brought in they take top spot simply because of the awareness they create. The more these type of guys get brought in (lesnar, undertaker, the rock) the more people watch the show and the more people will see cm punk as the champion. There really isn't anyone in wwe at the moment who could single handedly drive the machine that is wwe so these guys nee to be brought in to create awareness of guys who are now top talent like cm punk.

Relatively new? Some "legends" haven't had as long careers in WWE as Punk has thus far. He's been in WWE since 2005. Consistently on television delivering each week. Some people like him, some don't. That's fine. Trying to use the newbie excuse is lame because it doesn't work. Punk has paid his dues and become a great superstar in his own right. It justs doesn't fit nor does it make sense in the context of Punk being a so-called "mid-card champion".

Back in the 80's when Hogan was champion he was more famous than most of the celebrities they brought in (mr T) and wrestling fans wanted to see him more than some of the other celebrities that were brought in (Cindy Lauper) so wwe didn't need to pull as many stunts as they already had a world famous star carrying the belt and giving it credibility.

That's old school mentality. Hogan was the only real big superstar in the 80s. There were no real contenders to even measure up to Hulkamania. Nowadays, there are dozens of worthy contenders for CM Punk. Again, that doesn't fit. Especially as it relates to this topic. The wrestling/entertainment business has evolved and everytime someone tries to use a comparision of past wrestling & current wrestling it is a flawed comparision from the jump.

I'll tell you one thing though, if CM punk keeps feuding with nobody's like Daniel Bryan then he will be a mid carder. There's nothing worse than seeing someone as embarrassing as Daniel Bryan in the title picture. CM punk needs to feud with someone better than that to keep the championship thriving that's for sure.

Nobody's like Daniel Bryan? Ok, I already thought you were less than an actual pure "wrestling" fan with the whole Hogan thing. But, he was a great superstar and the first major one the WWF/WWE had. So, I can overlook that. However, referring to Bryan as a nobody shows how ignorant you are in the wrestling talent area. Bryan is a great wrestler whom crowds chant for and love to watch. He's yet another former indy guy like CM Punk who paid dues and sacrificed to get where he is. This is not the 1980's anymore. It doesn't take untalented big men to keep the main events credible. Size is no longer an issue and the pro wrestling/entertainment business has evolved. Bottom line, that whole reply above shows why some fans get a bad rep for being idiots. Saying things like the above only reinforces that stereotype.

 

[lowandmighty]

How so? Because Punk is THE man in WWE right now. He's being used prominently on television and is always around. Just like "other champions of the past". Seems the same to me.

Whatever. I don't think you understand what I'm saying even though I thought it was worded pretty clearly.


Relatively new? Some "legends" haven't had as long careers in WWE as Punk has thus far. He's been in WWE since 2005. Consistently on television delivering each week. Some people like him, some don't. That's fine. Trying to use the newbie excuse is lame because it doesn't work. Punk has paid his dues and become a great superstar in his own right. It justs doesn't fit nor does it make sense in the context of Punk being a so-called "mid-card champion".

Compared to the rock, brock lesnar, randy orton, john cena, the big show yes he's relatively new. Not everyone has the time to watch wrestling every week. I'm not saying he's not a great superstar merely that he hasn't been around as long as some of the other talent wwe has been using for the main events lately. It all makes sense if you think about it before you just start complaining about it.



That's old school mentality. Hogan was the only real big superstar in the 80s. There were no real contenders to even measure up to Hulkamania. Nowadays, there are dozens of worthy contenders for CM Punk. Again, that doesn't fit. Especially as it relates to this topic. The wrestling/entertainment business has evolved and everytime someone tries to use a comparision of past wrestling & current wrestling it is a flawed comparision from the jump.

Its still a legit comparison, that's what it was like back then compared to now hence why he's being alleged a mid card champion.

Nobody's like Daniel Bryan? Ok, I already thought you were less than an actual pure "wrestling" fan with the whole Hogan thing. But, he was a great superstar and the first major one the WWF/WWE had. So, I can overlook that. However, referring to Bryan as a nobody shows how ignorant you are in the wrestling talent area. Bryan is a great wrestler whom crowds chant for and love to watch. He's yet another former indy guy like CM Punk who paid dues and sacrificed to get where he is. This is not the 1980's anymore. It doesn't take untalented big men to keep the main events credible. Size is no longer an issue and the pro wrestling/entertainment business has evolved. Bottom line, that whole reply above shows why some fans get a bad rep for being idiots. Saying things like the above only reinforces that stereotype.

Daniel bryan is an embarrassment, I don't care how many "dues" he's paid it doesn't make up for him being a lame character and a physically not very believable wrestler. I shouldn't be bigger than a world wrestling champion.

 

[IT Factor]

Daniel bryan is an embarrassment, I don't care how many "dues" he's paid it doesn't make up for him being a lame character and a physically not very believable wrestler. I shouldn't be bigger than a world wrestling champion.

Wow! I can't believe how badly you FUBAR'ed that quote to reply[yeah, it's a movie reference, figure it out ].

As for you saying Bryan is an embarrassment, that again shows how little you care for the pure art of WRESTLING. Bryan isn't some flashy over-the-top entertainer. Saying you don't care how many dues he's paid only proves what I said earlier about some fans getting bad reps for being idiots. Such statements tend to reinforce that stereotype. His character is no lamer or less believeable than anyone currently on TV. And I highly doubt you have the same knowledge of wrestling and how to execute it properly as Bryan does. Claiming to be bigger than Bryan is one thing and implying you could do what he does is another matter entirely.

With reguards to what you said about Punk, it's laughable at best. CM Punk has been around 7 years and has paid dues. You also put Brock Lesnar on that list of people who had "been around longer than CM Punk". Again, I would question your logic, but, it's transparent that there's none being used. Brock Lesnar only lasted in his first run from 2002-2004. That's two whole years for those of us with mathematical skills beyond that of a first grader. It seems as though you are reaching to make a point that isn't there and what you reply with tends to back that theory up in spades. I can understand if some people don't like CM Punk. His gimmick and size would be enough for some people not to like him. I get it. But, to call his in-ring skill into question is insane for anyone judging from a WRESTLING standpoint. It looks like you are indeed the kinda fan hung up on the size issue and more entertainment oriented. Using that as a basis for a hate thread is kind of shallow and has no basis in reality.