Who will be the first to reach or break Ric Flairs record?

[spacephantomx]

read my post from above The ECW title was still a world title despite ur opinion even though for some reason like I stated earlier after Bobby Lashley vacated the title it was no longer seen as a world title for some unknown reason when Johnny Nitro won it even though it was still regarded as one. Granted ECW may not have been all that great but it had some decent champions.

 

[wrestlingfan]

Decent champions but in terms of the titles actual prestige it wasn't a world title. Yes it may have been declared a world title by the WWE but for 1. it wasnt even the real ECW and 2. It wasn't a world title when it was the only title on the brand.

 

[spacephantomx]

nbieclkl91 you have a point there but the thing I would like to argue here is Christian Cage that day was stripped earlier of the NWA world title along with everyone else and were only known as world champions until they received the new TNA world titles. Not only that TNA is the only one that recognizes that reign while the NWA doesn't, which means going back to what I said earlier his 2 NCAA world titles could have been the ones in question to be counted as part of Kurt's 13 world titles

 

[nbieclkl91]

The ECW Championship is not a world title because it was th eonly one on the brand competed with by nobodies put on WWE's third rate brand.
nbieclk:Yes the term world title is just made to seem fancy. If you really want to go there than that means
World Heavyweight Championship-Rey Mysterio was never supposed to win it because he's not a heavyweight.
Intercontinental Championship-People from all around the world can compete for it
U.S Title-Only people in the U.S can compete for it.
Legends Championship-A.J Styles shouldn't have won it because he's not a legend.
X-Division Championship-Only high-flyers are allowed to get it Samoa Joe, Kurt Angle, and Douglas Williams have gotten it.

I reiterate this because you don't understand what I said. Basically i'm saying if you say world heavyweight championship means the whole world then that means all these titles must mean what their titles say also.

First off, the ECW is and always will be considered a World Championship. Saying that it's not just because it was on WWE's third rate show is bullshit. That's like saying once TNA split from NWA, they're world title meant nothing, or once John Cena's "spinner belt" was used, the WWE title meant nothing.

Second, "World Title" means it is known around the World. It has nothing to do with divisions. The "World Heavyweight Title" is the top title of the biggest and most relevant companies in proffessional wrestling. (ie. WWE, TNA, NWA, NJPW, etc.) A "Heavyweight" title discribes a division.

 

[kris8524]

Ok, no disrespect to anyone here. Ric Flair is a 16 time proffesional wrestling world champ. That means any company in the world that is a proffesional wrestling company should count as a valid option for there title to be involved. With that being said Kurt Angle's NCAA or olympic gold medals and NCAA world championships cannot count. They are not proffesional wrestling/Sports entertainment. They are collegiate amateure wrestling. So, they cannont be considered in the same category as Ric Flair's titles, or we should consider Boxing, MMA, and Martial Arts world heavyweight champions. If we considered the most overall wrestling titles then Kurt Angle would be the closest to getting 16.

So, with that being said so i do not get considered SPAM, I belive that no one will get to Flairs titles while he is still alive. The first after that will be either Angle or Cena Sting will not have it again as he is close to being done same with Taker, and I dont see HHH staying that long, but the E could shake things up on that one

 

[spacephantomx]

I admit it wasn't the orginal ECW I'll give u that but that's like saying when RVD won the WWE title he also didn't win the ECW world title as well might I add because that also created controversy because they wanted to rename the WWE title to the ECW title but RVD was against the idea and hence the reason he became a 2 time world champion. Also Bobby Lashley is known as a former world champion do I need to get on and u don't need more than 1 title for it to be considered a world title ur sense of logic is flawed when it comes to wrestling

 

[nbieclkl91]

nbieclkl91 you have a point there but the thing I would like to argue here is Christian Cage that day was stripped earlier of the NWA world title along with everyone else and were only known as world champions until they received the new TNA world titles. Not only that TNA is the only one that recognizes that reign while the NWA doesn't, which means going back to what I said earlier his 2 NCAA world titles could have been the ones in question to be counted as part of Kurt's 13 world titles

That is an interesting point to bring up. I think the reason that it is counted by TNA and not NWA is because he won it after NWA stripped Christian of the title therefore the title was no longer associated with TNA when Angle won the match. TNA acknowledges it because he won it on a TNA PPV. That's all I have on that lol.

 

[wrestlingfan]

The ECW isnt a world title plain and simple. It can be officially called a world title but if you look at its popularity and competition than we'll see. it was the only title on the brand giving it no sense of hierachy so it could've been called the cruiserweight, light heavyweight, television, title whatever.

I know it doesn't have anything to do with Division but the context you said "it has to do with the whole world" than the same can be said for the other titles and what their name means.

Nah HHH is Senior Advisor to vince now and i think hes mentoring sheamus inside and out of the ring.

 

[kris8524]

How can the ECW title not be considered a World title? I dont get it, Vince bought the Company and so he bought the rights to THEIR WORLD TITLE, so any ECW champ during origanal ECW or WWECW is still a world title as long as it is still competed for, it doesnt matter who competed for it, u have to remeber even angle was on ecw in the wwe, and it was in a company with 3 brands so in a sense anyone could have switched brands to compete for it.

 

[nbieclkl91]

The ECW isnt a world title plain and simple. It can be officially called a world title but if you look at its popularity and competition than we'll see. it was the only title on the brand giving it no sense of hierachy so it could've been called the cruiserweight, light heavyweight, television, title whatever.

I know it doesn't have anything to do with Division but the context you said "it has to do with the whole world" than the same can be said for the other titles and what their name means.

Nah HHH is Senior Advisor to vince now and i think hes mentoring sheamus inside and out of the ring.

Just incase you haven't noticed. We're not talking about what WWE considers a World Title because we all know they only consider their own. I'm basing this off of what the PWI considers to be World Titles and they even consider the ECW World Heavyweight Title a legit world title all the way up to it's last holder (Ezekiel Jackson) who is also considered a 1-time World Champion like it or not.

 

[spacephantomx]

That's what I was I was thinking and it was only just recently that they acknowledged that fact as well. If you look up his title history it will state he's won the TNA world title 4 times with one being the NWA world title, I think the reason it's considered that was because they did consider him a world champ by technicality but either than that I have no idea that's where I'm stumped.

Also if the ECW title isn't a world title as u say wrestlingfan than by ur logic RVD, Sabu, the sandman, Tommy Dreamer, Bobby Lashley, The Big Show, Taz, and the list goes on were never world champions than by ur definition and also would mean that the ECW title prestige never originated from the NWA world title either.

 

[kris8524]

Just incase you haven't noticed. We're not talking about what WWE considers a World Title because we all know they only consider their own. I'm basing this off of what the PWI considers to be World Titles and they even consider the ECW World Heavyweight Title a legit world title all the way up to it's last holder (Ezekiel Jackson) who is also considered a 1-time World Champion like it or not.

Exactly

 

[wrestlingfan]

I guess you have a good point there. I can't argue with that. I mean PWI are a popular magazine that I'm even getting issues of when I go Christmas shopping. Honestly this is a wasteful topic. No one is going to surpass Flair so just end it there.

Also space phoenix im talking about the ECW World Title in WWE not the original.

 

[kris8524]

Somebody will surpass Flair the way that WWE is changing champs so frequently, i think vince will eventually make someone pass him just to spite him. I think he is just waiting because i could see it starting a rediculous chain of events where TNA would just give flair a bunch of cheap wins just to top what the E will do. Both companies can be very childish

 

[spacephantomx]

it's spacephantomx get it right wrestling fan and like I said earlier thats like denying it's prestige there and telling the PWI that the WWE ECW title isn't a world title just becuase of the fact it was brought back by the WWE and also like saying the World heavy wieght title also doesn't count becuase it use to be the WCW title

 

[nbieclkl91]

I guess you have a good point there. I can't argue with that. I mean PWI are a popular magazine that I'm even getting issues of when I go Christmas shopping. Honestly this is a wasteful topic. No one is going to surpass Flair so just end it there.

Also space phoenix im talking about the ECW World Title in WWE not the original.

It's not a wasteful topic at all. Infact, it's a very legitimate topic to look at and discuss. To say nobody is going to surpass Ric Flair is like saying nobody will replace John Cena as the face of WWE. I'm not trying to put you down or anything because I'm actually greatful that people even comment on my threads in the first place. All I'm suggesting is that you do a little more research before commenting in a thread.

 

[wrestlingfan]

I've done my resaerch. I just have my opinions on what can be considered a world title, thats all.

 

[kris8524]

Exactly Spacephantomx the world heavy weight title is the same concept of the ECW title, just it has remained relevent now. NBIECLKL91 it is a wonderful topic

 

[nbieclkl91]

This is completely off topic but if you guys wouldn't mind could you please toss me some good rep for this thread? I REALLY NEED IT! lol thanks!

spacephantomx, I totally agree with your ECW title and "WCW" World Heavyweight Title being reintroduced in the WWE comparison.

 

[wrestlingfan]

Yeah this is a good topic. I know this may be off topic but I want to make a topic called "The Next" of which current superstar is the next whatever and since I can't post it in General Discussion because im not permitted on that board where do I post it?

 

[kris8524]

Wrestlingfan i respect your opinion, but i do not understand your logic. The WCW title came from NWA as did the TNA title and i think pretty sure ECW. Before we just had WWE(and TNA) there was Territory promotions, so in a sense WWE is just a bunch of bought territories that are all put to rest along with their titles except the WCW title.

 

[kris8524]

Wow wrestling fan u go from saying this is a wasteful topic to a good topic, I dont get it man.

 

[nbieclkl91]

Wrestlingfan i respect your opinion, but i do not understand your logic. The WCW title came from NWA as did the TNA title and i think pretty sure ECW. Before we just had WWE(and TNA) there was Territory promotions, so in a sense WWE is just a bunch of bought territories that are all put to rest along with their titles except the WCW title.

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[spacephantomx]

the only thing that frustrates me at times is the WWE at some point or another does not consider ECW title a world title after Bobby Lashley last held it even though it was a world title

 

[kris8524]

the only thing that frustrates me at times is the WWE at some point or another does not consider ECW title a world title after Bobby Lashley last held it even though it was a world title

It the words of one of WWE's greats... "it doesn't matter what the WWE thinks". Contrary to what vince thinks he is not the CEO of all of wrestlign that is why he doesnt even call his superstars wrestlers any more.